Jump to Last Post 1-9 of 9 discussions (38 posts)
  1. MikeNV profile image67
    MikeNVposted 12 years ago

    $10 Billion per month to spend in Afghanistan per month "fighting terrorists".  How many people know the cost of a Gallon of fuel to the military in Afghanistan is $13 per Gallon?

    30,000 AMERICAN TROOPS on the South Korea/North Korea Border.

    And the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION REFUSES to protect our borders.  Can anyone see the irony here?

    Dear Terrorists,

    Welcome to America please enter via Canada or Mexico... we do not care.

    How could any American Citizen support this idiot?  You think he cares about America?

    Go back to Kenya and please fly over the Bermuda Triangle on your way out.

    SEATTLE (AP) — The U.S. Border Patrol has quietly stopped its controversial practice of routinely searching buses, trains and airports for illegal immigrants at transportation hubs along the northern border and in the nation's interior, preventing agents from using what had long been an effective tool for tracking down people here illegally, The Associated Press has learned.

    Current and former Border Patrol agents said field offices around the country began receiving the order last month — soon after the Obama administration announced that to ease an overburdened immigration system, it would allow many illegal immigrants to remain in the country while it focuses on deporting those who have committed crimes.

    1. profile image0
      Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Obama has more than doubled the number of troops and staff at the border. Are you clueless? Do you have any idea how much it would cost to find and deport all of the illegals? Do you really think THAT is worth it considering the economic woes of the country? Go back to Kenya? Seriously dude, you bring shame to my country.

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        For sure, what this country needs is more illegal aliens sponging off of the (nonexistent) wealth of the middle class here.  We should remove all border patrols and stop any effort to deport them.  It will do wonders for the economy to stop spending all that unnecessary money as well - maybe we could use it to support a small portion of the illegals instead.

        That way we can [/i]all[/i] be out work while still supporting millions upon millions of foreign nationals and losing our homes from trying to do so. 

        Good thinking.

        1. profile image0
          Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          First of all, they don't take middle class jobs. Illegals can't get middle class jobs. They take the lower class jobs...jobs that citizens don't do, like agriculture and cleaning your hotel room. When states clamp down on deportation, nobody fills those jobs (see the agricultural industry RIGHT NOW). So supply diminishes and prices go up. When they have to up the salaries of agricultural workers and the labor industry, the prices go up.
          Now, think of the amount of money it would cost to find tens of millions, arrest them, and pay for their deportation. So far, you entire argument is bent on the false idea that they take middle class jobs, and then a mention of the economy, however you ignore that the clamp on deportation will increase prices, stagnating the economy, and then you want to deport tens of millions of people, costing the economy and further extending the deficit. Nice idea...if you were 10 and riding a short bus to school, but not for a grown man.

          "That way we can [/i]all[/i] be out work while still supporting millions upon millions of foreign nationals and losing our homes from trying to do so. "

          First point, is that people are out of a job because of illegals. That point is entirely incorrect. People are out of jobs because the investment banks tanked the economy to the point of causing a global recession that is threatening dozens of country's very lives. The second point is that you are still supporting foreign nationals while being out of a job.
          I assume you are talking about taxes, which are not built on supporting illegals, so whether they were here or not, you would still be required to pay taxes. Taxes haven't increased in 17 years and are at their lowest point since Eisenhower, so your second point is again...entirely false.
          Your third point is that you are losing your homes trying to support said foreign nationals. This point is also entirely false. People are losing their homes because of the aforementioned recession caused the lack of demand within the market, drastic cuts in services and employment, and the fraud committed upon the public by the mortgage lenders during the recession buildup in an effort to milk the system and pass along the risk.
          Every part of what you said is illogical or wrong.
          Try again.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I'm not sure where you live, but it sure isn't America.

            Illegal aliens fill all kinds of jobs, not just agriculture that doesn't pay a living wage.  When I see entire crews of skilled labor evacuate a construction job site (building a school funded by MY taxes) when INS comes around I don't think they are legally working and I don't think they are American citizens.  They are illegal aliens and they aren't picking tomatoes somewhere.  They are building the school that your children may walk into one day and they are taking jobs from American citizens by doing it. 

            People just like me are losing their homes because some illegal alien took the good paying job they had from them.  Sure, some took on more mortgage than they could afford, and some have lost jobs because of the recession, but a lot of them lost their job and home to a foreign national that found easy pickings in one of the few countries that refuse to enforce their laws.

            You can talk this crap all you want, but I live in the real world and see it every day.  Illegal aliens aren't limited to picking crops and they ARE taking good paying jobs that American citizens want and held before being fired to make room for an illegal.  Skilled labor jobs that experienced hard working people are being kicked out of to save a buck or two by hiring illegals.

            Then when I walk into a school and see special teachers hired and special classrooms built to teach mobs of foreign language students I have to realize that my taxes are paying for this.  I also realize there just aren't that many American citizens that can't speak English; these classrooms are filled with illegal aliens.  Somebody pays for these things and it sure isn't Felipe Calderon. 

            You people in your ivory tower listening and swallowing the propaganda from the liberal press and greedy employers willing to ignore the law desperately need to leave that tower for a while and visit the real world.  Find out what's really going on around you.  If you can't be bothered to do so you will find one day that those same tomato picking illegals have invaded that tower and taken your job as well as the ones they have already stolen from the men that should have been building your tower but were fired in the name of greed.

            Try again, but this time take the time and put the effort into finding out for yourself what's going on.  Visit the construction job sites around you.  Look into the schools and note how many of the classrooms speak only a foreign language in elementary school.  Spend a day in the local ER and see who comes in.  Sit for a day in the local welfare department and note what language is spoken when applying for food stamps.  Don't take someone else's word for it; find out for yourself just as I did.  Then come back and we'll talk about what to do about it.

            1. habee profile image90
              habeeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              I know lots of illegal aliens around here work as waiters and waitresses - jobs that Americans would like to have. I know this because my daughter's fiance tried to get a job at one of these restaurants. He also tried to get a job with a local vegetable farm, but they had a waiting list. Many Americans aren't so choosy these days when it comes to employment!

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Yes, it happens all over the country, but greedy companies deny it and those that won't open their eyes and look believe them.

                Just think how much an employer saves by paying an illegal under the table.  No FICA (7.5%).  No unemployment insurance.  No insurance or other bennies of any kind.  No workmens comp insurance to pay.  With "fewer" employees business insurance goes down.  Even if they pay the same wage the savings are huge.

                Let the rest of the country pick up the cost of food stamps, medical care, schooling and all the rest of it - the employer makes out like a thief.  Which I guess is what he is. sad

                1. Mighty Mom profile image77
                  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Employers do the same thing when they export their jobs to other countries.
                  People are willing to work for a whole lot less than Americans (less than illegals who still have to make it in the USA and it's expensive here).

                  So agree with you wilderness. But the ones I get upset with are the ones making out like bandits. The employers.
                  When wages get depressed everyone's standard of living suffers.

                  1. wilderness profile image95
                    wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    The best I can say to outsourcing is that it doesn't leave Americans holding the bag for the support of the illegal and their family.  Those are still overseas, not draining the resources of the Americans now out of a job.

                    Yes, it is the employers that need slapped.  Hard.  Second or third time offenders need to have their doors shut permanently.

      2. MikeNV profile image67
        MikeNVposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        It would cost a lot less than letting it go.  It doesn't matter if you double next to nothing, you still have next to nothing.

        30,000 AMERICAN Troops on the Korean Border and almost nothing on the American Borders.

        Obama is telling the Border Patrols to stand down and in the same breath says he is fighting terror.

        Clearly you are not well read and very misinformed.

        1. profile image0
          Texasbetaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          We broke treaty after treaty with the Mexicans, literally forcing them out of their own lands, claiming them as our own based purely on economic reasons, spent years trying to get more of them into the country after the war to work our farms, and extort them after NAFTA, then eliminate their jobs when we tank our own economy forcing the entire country to gather for scraps of the cartels...and you want to play the good guy? What do you want Obama to do? Shoot to kill? I tell you what Rambo...you put on a tshirt and go down to the border and just walk around with those psycho rednecks running around playing war...and we'll just see if you come back. You are trying to play economics with racism. Don't be fooled buddy...they'd get to you immediately after taking care of the Mexicans...if you let them. 60 years ago, you'd be rounded up and put in an internment camp, which is exactly what you want to do now to other people of color. Sounds a bit ironic to me.

    2. Ralph Deeds profile image67
      Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      "And the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION REFUSES to protect our borders.  Can anyone see the irony here?"

      Actually, Obama has been doing much more than Bush---

      Huddled Masses, Turned Away
      Published: October 27, 2011

      EMMA LAZARUS’S sonnet — “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free” — greeted generations of immigrants.

          Times Topics: Deportation | Immigration and Emigration

      But today, as we observe the 125th anniversary of the dedication of the Statue of Liberty, those words, inscribed at its base, have been turned on their heads. Many of Lazarus’s tired and poor may today be found in immigrant detention facilities, part of an enormous backlog of deportation cases that grows larger by the day. Last year, the Department of Homeland Security deported nearly 400,000 people; its secretary, Janet Napolitano, recently promised to increase removal cases to “historic levels.”

      Immigration and Customs Enforcement received more than $1.6 billion for removal and deportation in the last fiscal year. It can cost $23,000, by some estimates, to remove someone from the United States.

      Though it has assured Congress that it concentrates on those who pose a danger to public safety, the agency often deports immigrants guilty only of technical violation of the immigration laws. A study group based at Syracuse University analyzed 187,000 immigration cases that were completed in the 10 months that ended on July 31. Of those cases, 81 percent involved only procedural, not criminal, wrongdoing. Of all the accused foreigners, only two were charged with terrorist activities. Neither was ultimately convicted of terrorism, and the immigration court even granted one of them permanent resident status.

      Our restrictive immigration laws are bad enough — separating families, sending refugees like Haitians back to devastated countries, denying jobs to foreign students — but how they are administered is even worse. Some immigrants languish in privately operated detention facilities for months, denied any civil rights, until they are deported. Immigration agents profile people improperly, based on their apparent race or religion, detaining them at will.

      I first became aware of these ludicrous enforcement practices in May 2003. I received an urgent call on behalf of Julie Gavras, whose father, the filmmaker Costa-Gavras, is a friend.

      She had flown to Kennedy Airport to visit her father, who was directing a group of artists at Lincoln Center in a program to mark the forthcoming 2004 Olympics in Athens. She had a ticket to return to Paris in less than a week. The offense that led to her detention was her having overstayed a tourist visa years earlier. Representatives of the Greek and French governments, and other prominent people, called on I.C.E. officials at the airport, but each was told that “the law is the law,” and that Ms. Gavras would have to remain in detention until she returned to Paris.

      I spoke with the I.C.E. official at the airport and met the same refusal. I finally asked him, “Why don’t you treat her like an ordinary criminal? Parole her into my custody, and I will be responsible for seeing that she is on a flight to Paris in five days.” After conferring by phone with persons unknown, he reluctantly granted my request. Ms. Gavras was able to join her father for the performance.

      After that episode, I started paying more attention to immigrant detention and removal. I found that Ms. Gavras’s experiences have been repeated thousands of times. Unfortunately, there is seldom anyone to intercede.

      There was a time when immigrants were treated with compassion. Lazarus’s experiences at Wards Island, then a station for sick and destitute arrivals, sensitized her to the plight of immigrants and inspired her to give such a powerful voice to the statue. Let us honor Lady Liberty by heeding Lazarus’s stirring words.

      Robert M. Morgenthau was the Manhattan district attorney from 1975 to 2009.

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        "There was a time when immigrants were treated with compassion"

        You mean like when they hit the shores and were on their own?  Without free food, transportation home, medical care (they died in wagons going West), or education?  You mean when they ended up in the sweatshops in NY? 

        Yes, there was a time when an immigrant was welcome.  Welcome to make it or die trying.  Now, though, you would have us welcome anyone that can sneak in and avoid the police long enough to hit the welfare office for more to eat.

        Not interested.  I did write a hub, though, about what to do with current illegal aliens in the country - very basically make it on your own and pass requirements to become a citizen within two years or go home.  That I could live with although I still don't like it.  What would your reaction be to something like that?

        1. Ralph Deeds profile image67
          Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Your stereotype of immigrants reveals your hostility toward them.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Hostile?  Yes, I'm hostile to criminals that demand I support them while they insist they are still foreign nationals and hide behind screams of racism while violating half the laws of our country.  These they call illegal aliens - the proper term.

            Immigrants, on the other hand, fulfilling the immigration requirements of the law and becoming American citizens while they support themselves I welcome with open arms.

            Why?  Did my descriptions of immigrants from our past offend you?  It was what it was, Ralph and it helped make our country stronger and set it on the road to becoming what it is today.  The illegal alien horde we face today, on the other hand, will bleed us dry and destroy us if we allow it to continue.  We will become just another third world country, begging help from nations that never decided they could support the world.

    3. LewSethics profile image60
      LewSethicsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Oh, I remember, none of this was a problem when Dubya was prez.

    4. uncorrectedvision profile image61
      uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Has the Federal Government of the United States taken sufficient action at anytime in the last 20 years to dissuade the flood of illegal immigrants?  What President has actively sought to resolve the issue?

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        In 1987 and 1997 both we granted amnesty to illegal aliens - does that count?  I'm sure it helped a great deal to stop the flow, and if you think so too I have a bridge for sale...

  2. Mighty Mom profile image77
    Mighty Momposted 12 years ago

    This is classic America and it's really sad.
    Rather than looking at the cause of our economic woes or the cause of our expensive but underperforming healthcare system, what do Americans do?
    Blame the illegals.
    If we sent every person here in the US illegally home tomorrow -- guess what?
    We'd still have rampant unemployment.
    We'd still have industries exporting jobs overseas and people graduating (high school, college, advanced degrees) unable to find work.
    We'd still be paying through the nose for health insurance that buys less and less.
    This would be a nice vindictive move that might make some people feel like they'd reclaimed "their country."
    But our major woes would not be touched.
    And, as texasbeta pointed out, there would actually be a negative impact on the cost of fruits and vegetables and wine and other agricultural products.

    As for sending Obama back to Kenya, that's just the racist icing on the rancid racist rant.

  3. habee profile image90
    habeeposted 12 years ago

    From what I've seen of employers in South GA who hire illegals, they represent some of the best employers anywhere, along with some of the worst. I know one who pays $10 an hour, but he also supplies the workers with free housing, free transportation, and free medical care. I don't know if he pays their electric bills or not. He also gives them large amounts of food. $10 cash an hour, with free housing and free medical, is nothing to sneeze at. Remember, the cost of living here is WAY lower than it is in states like CA. Many of these employees are able to send a good portion of their pay back to families in Mexico. On the other hand, there are employers who use illegals like slaves. The illegals won't complain because of the threat of being discovered.

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I don't know, Habee.  Does that "good" employer submit income taxes and both employer and employee FICA taxes to Uncle Sam?  Does he pay unemployment insurance and workmen's comp on them?  Does he supply private schooling for their children?

      If not, is he not just another thief, pocketing monies that should go to various govt. agencies and letting society pick up such costs as schooling and free lunches?  Does he still deduct the costs of these (very well treated ) employees as a business expense (and not paying income tax on those monies) while paying them cash but not paying other costs of having employees?  Does he have a W-4 on hand, along with proof that it is legal for them to work?

      While both he and these employees both make good profits, the employment and business laws are not being followed (assuming your answer was negative) and the public is still picking up costs because of illegal labor.

  4. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

    So when are American going to go and pick the produce everyone eats?

  5. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

    "public is still picking up costs because of illegal labor." The public won't have to when red-blooded Americans start picking the produce. Any volunteers?

    1. Petra Vlah profile image60
      Petra Vlahposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      In Washington state the apples are getting rotten since the illigals are afraid to work; the pay is $10 an hour, but NO American "unimployed" has showed up

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Washington unemployment is on the order of $600 per week - why would anyone work when they can get  half again as much by staying home?

        Add in that if you go work for two weeks picking apples and back to unemployment you must (in most states) wait for one week with no benefits and the problem gets worse.

  6. MikeNV profile image67
    MikeNVposted 12 years ago

    And you can blame the Government for that.  When I was a kid I worked all summer on a Farm for next to nothing.  Way below minimum wage.  But I was happy to have income any income at that age.

    Now it's illegal.

    So you can NOT blame the rotting apples on anyone but the Government.

    Illegals are NOT the answer... they are the PROBLEM.

    Everytime an Illegal works they are committing a crime.  Each time they "Borrow" a Social Security number they are committing identity fraud.

    I know TWO people who were in Automobile Accidents with Illegals and neither illegal was arrested and the ENTIRE burden of the damage was placed on my friends who were NOT at Fault.  The insurance company refused to pay out, and now there is a lawsuit.

    There are so many peripheral costs associated with Illegals that are never talked about.

    All you hear about is those who work in the Agriculture Industry... so what?   Americans can and will work in Farms as soon as the Government gets the hell out of the way.

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Mike, Mike, Mike.  You just don't seem to get it.  You are not allowed to discuss or mention such things.

      You may not mention cost factors for illegals.  Everyone knows that the American public is existing only on the backs of illegals picking apples and tomatoes.  And the backs of their spouses, children, parents, siblings, aunts, uncles and cousins that are also getting all that nice schooling, medical care and free food that God provides for them.

      We may not discuss aliens without drivers licenses or insurance; it is OUR fault that they are driving in this country without such meaningless pieces of paper.  It's kind of like that SS# theft and fraud; it just doesn't happen and if it does it doesn't matter anyway because it's our fault for not handing them out as they crawl through the tunnel into the country in the dead of night. 

      Please cease and desist in telling the American public about these things; it could cause me to lose my housekeeper or the workers in my factory.  Instead you need to promote the idea that illegals are good for the country, that it is our DUTY to provide for the world and that we we owe these criminals the fruits of our labor.  I don't want to lose those workers; they really are quite cheap and the housekeeper is the only one I've found that will wash my windows for me.

  7. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

    US corporations in and selling to Mexico cause a good deal of the flood of illegal immigrants, like
    dumping cheap corn.

    1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
      uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      A greater incentive for illegals to come here is the availability of a taxpayer funded welfare state.  The ready availability of medical care, food, housing and education is an incentive to come with out any other means of support.  It is no accident that illegal immigration has increased as the size and scope of the welfare state has increased.

      1. Hollie Thomas profile image59
        Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Why on earth would an illegal believe that, when a US citizen can't obtain those things. And before you start with, exactly, I have to ask, are you paid by Fox?

        1. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Because the 20 million already here pass the word back to their own country?

          Because President Calderon tells his people that he is lobbying hard to keep the doors open to the land of plenty?

          Maybe even because it is true?

        2. uncorrectedvision profile image61
          uncorrectedvisionposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Non-taxpaying poor do secure those things.  Medicaid, section 8 housing, SSI, food stamps, public school, etc....

          Rupert Murdock, Haliburton, Fox News are the new signs of a witch in our midst.   Find the witch!!!


  8. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

    So the corporate media would have one believe.

  9. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

    How about being murdered by drug gangs due to all the drugs Americans do. Anybody going to Mexico?


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