is the gop in love with bashing hispanics?
Everyone now on the conservative side keeps bashing hispanics are they nuts. They should be trying to persuade us since we are the major minority and in 20 years will be the majority in many states like texas and arizona which would be up for grabs with the growing hispanic population which have been safe republican states but hispanics turned nevada,north carolina,florida blue because of the growing hispanic base.Although im very disappointed with president with not passing immigration reform in his first year i think he has done a lot to further the country in a more progressive way.
The demographics of America that's no longer mostly white scares the crap out of conservatives. The move is on to turn back the tide (which is impossible). Even if wingnuts totally prevent the inclusion of any part of the 10 (or so) million hispanics - the reproductive rate of the LEGAL HISPANIC-AMERICANS makes the emergence of that demographic a certainty. And it's foolish and suicidal to piss Hispanics off as a class with legislation built around racial profiling.
The GOP does expect that voters are stupid. Conservatives on hubpages try to claim that the GOP led in racial integration. Conservative Republicans (and Conservative Democrats) opposed civil rights but when the democrats as a party embraced equal rights and an end to Jim Crow, the Conservative (racist) democrats left the party and became Republicans. This racism is the basis of the 'Southern Strategy' that propelled Reagan to power. But conservatives still spread teh myth that the GOP supported civil rights. Likewise Medicare. This year the GOP pretended to be defending Medicare when they wanted to enlist seniors to oppose Health Care Reform. However, if you catch a conservative off-the-record, they are still looking for the way to kill medicare without taking the political blame for sacrificing a popular (and essential) program.
The point being - for the moment, they find racism expedient. They want to exile a few million potential democratic voters. Later, they will try to rewrite the role they played in racial profiling and persecution. Somehow it will be the fault of progressives, I would guess. But I have discovered, there is no limit to the lies these folks will tell.What is the "gop"? I also found it difficult to read your post since you chose not to use "caps" and used some long sentences. However, I will attempt to respond to what I could draw out of your post.
First of all, I believe that one needs to discuss the specifics of the studies that say that Hispanics will be the majority in 20 years.
Did the study include the number of illegals who will quite possibly be dealt with within the next two decades? Did the study consider bi-racial people as Hispanics? Remember, statistics don't lie, people do.
Now let me read your post again and see what else i can dig out of there.How very little you have to offer. Did you pick on this poster because he/she is hispanic? Did you just threaten him/her with deportation?
You are crazy.How very little I have to offer?
Is that a personal insult or am I reading into things like perhaps YOU have?
I did not "pick on" anyone. I am just telling the truth. It was a bit more difficult to read the post because of how it was written. Before you attack me copy and paste his post somewhere and run spell-check and grammar check on it and you will see why it was a bit harder for me to understand it.
I threatened no one.
I am fine with ANYONE who is here LEGALLY.
Anyone who is NOT here legally does not belong here.Ah, good! You must have carefully re-read my post and now understand my points!
Fantastic!Yes, you are one of those people who want to take away birth right citizenship.
That's not what I said.
In fact, if an illegal alien mother gives birth to a child here I can't see blaming the child. I CAN see deporting the mother. If she wants her child to grow up in America then fine--give up the baby. If not she can take the baby with her. Simple.In other words you want mothers to abandon their children or in other words get out of the country and take your 'criminal' children with you.
Yes, I see clearly now. Don't be afraid to say what you really think.Nope. I don't want mothers to abandon their children. We all need to think before we have children. Irresponsible people who break laws should not have children.
If you cannot be a responsible adult then you won't make a good parent. So in this case, this woman would not be "abandoning" her child. She would be giving her child a chance to have a better life.
On the other hand, if you are okay with criminals having children then you are free to suggest she take her child with her. I never called her child a criminal. SHE, however, as an ILLEGAL alien would indeed be a lawbreaker. . . not that I brought this subject up in the first place, of course.You are saying that the woman should abandon her child. You would rather break the family up. "She would be giving her child a chance to have a better life." - So you are saying she can do the honorable thing and abandon her child in America and go back to her country or the irresponsible thing like stay with her child in America.
No, those are not good things to think. A family should not be broken up. People who came here who have not committed any crimes should be allowed a faster path to citizenship.
They are not criminals but you somehow believe they are.I am saying people who endanger the lives of their children and commit crimes--as in break laws--are not responsible parents and their kids are better off with responsible parents.
It is not MY choice to break up the family it would have to be THEIR choice.
Put your child up for adoption or take the child with you. It's YOUR choice!
A person who comes here illegal IS committing a crime and therefore is technically a criminal!
Staying somewhere you do not belong legally is NOT being responsible and IS breaking the law.
Which part of ILLEGAL do some people not understand?
People who come here ILLEGALLY have already committed a crime.
Therefore we are in agreement since you think only people who have not committed a crime should be allowed to stay.
Great!
Good night.Exactly how are they criminals again? You would rather them give up their children for adoption then take them with them to their country.
Because...?If you fail to come into this country LEGALLY then you broke the law and committed a crime. hence, you are technically a criminal.
Adoption is a choice not my demand.
Some might call your barbaric ideas genocide. They amount to ethnic cleansing.
Before throwing stones, perhaps you should read the history of eugenics and its association with progressives...this history of a progressive ideal has been ignored and subverted by liberal academia and modern progressives...Check out a little known pronouncement by Oliver Wendell Holmes on the subject of eugenics that confirms his pragmatism...
I'm familiar with the sorry history of eugenics. Now the GOP nativists are creating a revival of it.
With all due respect, your posts are hardly poet laureate material. People write quickly in the forums. Their analysis and willingness to diligently research their viewpoints will come through...a failure to capitalize "GOP" seems like a rather minor thing. BTW, FWIW, there are people in this country that conflate the problem with the legal number of hispanics in this country with the illegal number of hispanics. The fact of the matter is, there are an incredible number of legal hispanics in this country, and they are bearing legal children. They will outnumber good white folks unless we do something about it. We conflate their existence with the existence of illegal immigrants for convenience and political expedience. But I think you and I need to put our heads together to do something about the darkies that are here legally...
With all due respect, my posts will stand up in spell-check and grammar-check and for all you know I really AM an award-winning poet.
I stick by what I said in earlier posts. If you think the only thing wrong in the posts of the OP then you need to copy and paste every single post into spell-check and grammar-check. Plus, the longest post was without paragraphs and that made it incredibly difficult to read.
Don't get stuck on my one comment though, okay? Stick to the fact that nothing was said to refute or respond to my statements.Really, you want me to deal with the substance of your comments? Then why do you keep trolling around as grammar policeman?
Do you have a realistic proposal for dealing with the 12 million undocumented immigrants? If so, tell us about it and quit wasting everybody's time picking grammatical nits.
Statistics are only numbers and numbers are easily manipulated.
I guess you never heard it before but "statistics don't lie, people do" is a saying and it means EXACTLY what you said.
People can manipulate numbers to their own ends.
That is the Republicans for you. Right now this party has lost its direction. I mean, I hate Bush but lets look at his track record. He went into overdrive appealing with the Latinos. He work hard on getting their vote, and supporting their issues. His idea of immigration law I completely agreed with. He wanted to have a "guess worker" status created for the "illegals." I really think that more people should look at his alternative, http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/George … ration.htm.
Nevertheless, his own party has now destroyed all his efforts. As you say they are now blaming, and insulting Latino culture and society left and right. I mean- they blame the weight of the world on Obama and the minorities. It is ridiculous and I'm ashamed of the party that I supported for many, many, many years.The hispanics actually have more right to be here than not. Most undocumented workers have been lured here by industry, and treated like so much garbage...it is so easy to pick on people who have little or no representation! Great topic. Thanks
Why do they have more of a right than anybody?
This is an American english posting website. I suggest that you review the terms for hubpages if you feel the need to speak "en espanol". LEARN THE FRICKIN' LANGUAGE MAN! I know you know it. Maybe you simply "hable en espanol" to piss me off. Guess what? Hablo espanol, tambien. Don't play with me, Mr. Deeds..
So people speaking in Spanish makes you angry because they can speak more than one language?
Did you not notice the guy just spoke Spanish?
Did you not know that the official language of Hubpages is ENGLISH?
Did you not take my suggestion and copy and paste the very first post and run it through spell-check and grammar check?
No, I guess not. Had you done that you might have thought twice about saying the OP can speak two languages.
He obviously still has a few issues with English just as I still struggle with the foreign languages I have studied.
Again, the bottom line is people are getting p*ssed off with a lot of things including the illegal aliens in this country and our leaders are finally acknowledging that.
I hate that some people want to just give up on enforcing our laws and complain when people at least make an effort!
We would not be having this discussion if all the people who are not legal residents had not broken the law and entered this country illegally in the first place.
Perhaps the OP needs to direct his concern at the criminals and not his interpretation of political reactions to criminal actions.No te me enojes , don't get mad, look they here now what your conservative leaders are not doing anything about it they stirring you up. Why because the right are special they will believe everything their leaders tell them. Why because in the end they know they need the hispanic vote in the future to win their elections since we are growing .
They need the votes of LEGAL residents. They need the vote of people who PAY TAXES and thus pay their salaries.
The Conservative Republicans are so out of touch it is not funny. Now they are struggle for ideas. I would be delighted if they could actually offer one too.
How do you live in a primarily Hispanic state that is in the Red and not realize who their party is. LMAO!!!! I mean was.
My comment was addressed, not to you, but to thenewleft. You appear to have a very short fuse.
I am hispanic and conservatives need to watch something else other than fixed news because those republicans want to get rid of social security and medicare yet they go vote for the elephants in november.But like usual this will go on deaf ears because they rather listen to glenn beck's hatred talk than listen to reason.
And I'm sure you're the voice of reason.
This thread has a reasonable title.
What else should the GOP do?
Maybe they should just vote for every thing Obama wants, that seems reasonable.Yes. Or they should come up with a better idea. They've done neither. And they've alienated most of the Hispanic community forever, along with the black community, the gay and lesbian community, unemployed factory workers, most women and other sentient citizens.
And they will sweep the elections in November.
And you know it.
Obama is a drain on the democrat party.
The GOP might be well advised to tell us what they want. The party has no cohesive leadership. The old guard, some of whom had intelligence and principles (e.g, Senator Bob Bennett from Utah and Dick Lugar from Indiana, not to mention John McCain) is being decimated by the TeaTard rabble.
The conservative movement has entirely lost its thought leaders. Indeed, it has become anti-idea in many respects and now they have people like Palin, Beck and Limbaugh that fan fear and spread misinformation. They focus on speculating that our president is a Muslim intent on creating death panels rather than approaching a debate with the notion that rational minds may differ. Because they do not believe that ideas matter, they do not attempt to persuade why their values and ideals are correct, provide better solutions or will help lead our country in a better direction. By thought leaders, I mean people like William F. Buckley, Jr. I suppose George Will is still alive. Many conservatives are just as concerned with the trend. If we want to see this problem, we need look no farther than these forums, where there a number of people that think that anyone that disagrees with them must be stupid, or, oddly enough, violating the Constitution. They substitute ad hominem attacks for reason or healthy debate.
That is a fact. Off this site and on other sites, they won't even listen. They regard themselves as the 'elite' intellegent folks who don't have to read anything and without any rhyme or reason, they just attack, attack, attack.
They will attack you because they don't like the way you look, for having a low paying job, for having a job or not job at all.
They stoop to 'making fun' of your family, your friends, your kids even. They often use vulgar language that is beyond anything I have ever experienced even in middle school.
They troll and block all conversation from liberals or democrats on people personal blogs not excluding public figures who do not agree with the Tea Party Republicans views.. they hijack liberal sites.
They will not listen to reason at all.
And yet it's the leftards who bring it up first!
Au contraire, the Teatards are the ones who accuse President Obama of hating whites while depicting him with a bone in his nose and who whine continually about reverse discrimination against whites as if that's the predominant type of discrimination in the country. And idiots like Phyllis Schlafly scream the N word repeatedly to a caller on her radio show.
Don't you mean Dr. Laura?
I don't think she would be considered a mouthpiece for the GOP.
One of these days I will figure out why liberals never seem to be able to tell the truth.
Phyllis Schlafly did no such thing.
But because she is a well known conservative you thought you would throw that out and see if it sticks.
I am glad I don't get the news from the same source as you and Pcnuix or whatever his name is.Yes, I meant Dr. Laura. Thanks. I got the two mixed up. One is just about as nutty as the other. Schlafly said something almost as bad here in Michigan at a rally for a local Tea Party candidate for Congress, something to the effect that single women are all looking for the government to support them. Even the Tea Party extremist, "Rocky" Raczwowski, backed away from that ridiculous statement.
I am familiar with the theory that single women would vote for the candidate who would best provide for them.
A local talk show-host predicted before the 2008 Presidential election that a greater number of single women would vote for Obama rather than McCain.
His prediction wasn't based on the idea women wanted government to necessarily provide for them, it was based on his theory that women would be voting for Obama because he was viewed to be more sensitive than McCain.
Whatever the reason 70% of unmarried women voted for him, among married women the difference was 3%, 50% for McCain 47% for Obama.
What do you think the reason was?I'd have to look at the data, but one could speculate that age is a factor in that single women are more likely to be younger and younger people were more likely to vote for Obama. I seem to remember that 66% of the under-30 group voted for Obama.
There was no single reason. Some of the reasons were--pissed off at the Bush administration fiascos--(lying us into a foolish disastrous invasion of Iraq, cutting taxes for the rich and running up a huge deficit, allowing Christian evangelicals and big business to have too much influence over public policy decisions, damaged the country's reputation around the world, , because he supported women's right to choose abortion and because he promised to reform health care and pull our combat troops out of Iraq and end don't ask don't tell, etc,etc.) How many reasons do you want? I could go on.
Wrong question. Right question:
Why do hispanics blame the GOP for concern about the millions of illegal criminals invading our country to bleed the Americans? Why do they consistently attempt to turn it into a racial thing when it obviously is not?Wrong again! It is obviously a racial, racist, nativist thing. Are you familiar with the ugly term, "nativism."
Read up on it here--
Nativism favors the interests of certain established inhabitants of an area or nation as compared to claims of newcomers or immigrants.[1] It may also include the re-establishment or perpetuation of such individuals or their culture.
Nativism typically means opposition to immigration or efforts to lower the political or legal status of specific ethnic or cultural groups because the groups are considered hostile or alien to the natural culture, and it is assumed that they cannot be assimilated.[2] Opposition to immigration is common in many countries because of issues of national, cultural or religious identity. The phenomenon has been studied especially in Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States, as well as Europe in recent years. Thus nativism has become a general term for 'opposition to immigration' based on fears that the immigrants will distort or spoil existing cultural values.[3] This may be expressed through criticism of multiculturalism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nativism_%28politics%29
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i … t-extremis
More here:
http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/un … .05.x.html
[You should be paying some of us to further your education.]Sorry, Ralph, your new inclusion of the term nativism has nothing to do with the OP, which clearly questions bashing "hispanics" which is a race of people.
While it is true that some Americans will bash hispanics because they have seen their neighborhoods deteriorate into slums with the massive influx in illegal Mexican aliens, most people aren't in that position and don't share the same level of dislike.
[1] Yes, we should all reject the concept of giving any ethnic group lower standards of immigration. It has nothing to do with hostility, alien or assimilation - it has to do with fairness. That doesn't make it bad.
[2] It sounds like the problem of assimilation is causing your point [2]. If religious, cultural or national values in a location change radically because of immigration then the immigrants have not assimilated. They have instead brought their own cultural or national identity with them and demand that all current residents change - sorry, that's not acceptable. It is one thing to live side by side, but quite another to require change of existing people. Re; the current question of allowing Sharia law to be enforced in the US - that is not acceptable at all but is being demanded by some.
The US is in need of immigrants. Educated people capable of taking care of themselves. We do not need additional hordes of untrained, ignorant, itinerant farm workers that will need government support for many years if not forever.
Did you see the term race, or even hispanic, in that last paragraph? It's not there because race doesn't enter into it - we don't need additional people of any race to take care of.
We cannot be the dumping ground for the worlds undesirables and maintain our society. I for one am not willing to give all I've earned so an illegal alien can occupy the perceived land of plenty at my expense and leave his home soil behind.
Did you see the term hispanic or race? No, still not there. Liberals keep playing that card in the hopes of diverting attention from the real problem; the cost of supporting these criminals. (See, I can use loaded words, too!). Won't work, even though the primary problem right now is one of Mexican origin. Not hispanic - Mexican. If you want to play the race card, blame them for putting only hispanics across the border!
No, I take it back (erased) - I won't reply to your idiotic slur. If that's the best you can debate, I'm not real interested.Hispanics are "undesirables?" You're proving my point.
I haven't seen any proposals for establishing special immigration standards for any particular ethnic group. If you have, please explain.And you just very clearly proved my point, Ralph. Nowhere did I indicate that hispanics were undesirables - you did. I said that under-educated, itinerant workers living off of government largess were undesirables - you added the racial term hispanics. Why? I said nothing with a racial tone - you twisted and changed it to be racially motivated. Why? What is there that makes liberals continue to play this card out of the blue with nothing to back it?
As far as special favors for particular groups, I had thought I picked that up from your post. Careful re-reading shows that I was totally off base - I don't know now where I got the idea and I apologize. Lack of sleep coupled with flu bug obviously deranged what few working brain cells I have (hopefully temporarily!).I neglected to mention that you called them criminals.
"Why do hispanics blame the GOP for concern about the millions of illegal criminals invading our country to bleed the Americans? Why do they consistently attempt to turn it into a racial thing when it obviously is not?"
That doesn't sound very complimentary to me. And you wonder why Hispanics have bailed on the GOP?We are the victims of an invasion. I wouldn't give two craps if it was Norwegians who were doing it. Labeling those against it as racist is pure distraction. The point really is this those who are violating our borders bring nothing with them but bloodshed and more burdens for the american people, further, most won't be happy until a Mexican flag replaces the stars and stripes. There are ten million people out of work, ten million illegals working. send them home and put americans to work. The myth that they only do the jobs that americans don't want is total BS. The invasion must stop.
I agree that not all opponents of immigration reform are racists, but there is a strong, sizable nativist/racist element in the anti-immigrant crowd. Here in Detroit there is an organization dedicated to preserving European races and traditions which is virulently anti-Hispanic.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about
Brian Kilmeade, Fox and Friends, Co-host--"The Swedes have pure genes, because they marry other Swedes...Finns marry other Finns, so they have a pure society. In America, we...keep marrying other species and other ethnics."
Another--"Pat Buchanan commentator--"This has been a country built mostly by white folks." July 16 MSNBC's "The Rachel Maddow Show."
Another--About the NSM - National Socialist Movement
About the National Socialist Movement, Americas' National Socialist Party--We co-operate and work with many like minded white nationalist groups and many others which are either National Socialist or at least, racially aware of our European heritage.
White Racist Basketball Hate Group
* All White Basketball League Proposed by White Racists
An all-white basketball league was proposed earlier in the week by a group calling itself the All-American Basketball Alliance. The league's commissioner, Don "Moose" Lewis, said that in "the culture today" you have to "worry about a player flipping
Another--
In Huntington Beach, California, four white supremacist gang members were indicted for attempted murder after they allegedly stabbed, punched and kicked a Mexican immigrant in a predominantly Latino neighborhood where they "went hunting for a non-white" on July 3. A day later, a 45-year-old Latina working as a custodian in a gated community in Ladera Ranch, CA, ws stabbed and robbed by two men who yelled racial epithets."They told me I wasn't worth anything. They said they didn't like me and they didn't like Mexicans," Maria Guadarrama told the Orange County Register. One of the men reportedly had a swastika tattooed on his shoulder.The only comment I can make to that is that Brian Kilmeade is the south end of a donkey headed north. In no way does he represent the majority of Americans.
Although I'm sure there are sporadic instances of such pathetic thinking (skinheads of norther Idaho for instance) I reject it in toto - it has no place in America.
Again you confuse my comment about criminals. I refer to illegal aliens, which I'm sure you recognize, not to hispanics. True, most are currently Mexican citizens, which means most are hispanics, but that is a side issue and not the target.
Assimilation: Do you find it interesting that so many Mexican nationals not only refuse to assimilate but require American citizens to join in their fake celebrations and customs? We are supposed to honor the Mexican flag, and celebrate Cinco de Mayo - a celebration in only one small town in Mexico over a Mexican military triumph. Neither one is reasonable for an EX mexican citizen wishing to become American - only for a Mexican wishing to bring Mexico into the US. Even here it is not Hispanic, but Mexican.I've never been required to join a fake Mexican celebration. Have you? What's fake about them, anyway? Maybe we should stop celebrating St. Patrick's day?
No, but school children wearing the American flag on their shirts were sent home from school as it was an insult to illegal aliens celebrating Cinco de Mayo and might cause disruption in the American schools they were being educated in.
As I say, that particular celebration is designed solely to maintain solidarity among Mexican citizens residing in the US; it is not a Mexican thing and certainly not American. Mexicans in one small town celebrate it as a purely local phenomenon while Mexico as a whole ignores it. It certainly has nothing to do with being Hispanic, so just why is so widely lauded in the US by Mexicans? There is far more done here than the rest of the world combined on that day. Why is that? All I can think of is a show of solidarity and strength for Mexicans in America, which is not appropriate for true immigrants and shows a lack of willingness to assimilate.
St. Patrick's day I'm not really familiar with, but have always assumed it had to do with a religious saint from Ireland. His birthday, maybe. In any case it does not seem (and I'm ignorant here - correct me if I'm wrong) to be simply a slap in the face to Americans, but a part of the religious culture imported from Ireland.
Cinco de Mayo, on the other hand, had to have been imported for the express purpose of giving Mexicans a platform to gather around. Keep them ignorant of the true nature of the battle they're celebrating and they will be happy to participate. It has worked to the point that most American hispanics now pretty much have to join in or be ostracized. When American school kids are sent home for honoring their country on the anniversary of a minor foreign battle there is something wrong with the so-called "immigration" that is happening. Rather than immigration it is a thinly veiled attempt to make American money and American soil (but not necessarily the people) a part of Mexican society. Even the Mexican government participates in the charade, trying to tell us how to interpret our own constitution and laws and explaining that Mexico "needs" America to support the Mexican people.
Unfortunately, it's working all too well as neither our politicians nor employers care as long as they get their share of the pie and attempts to make objectors into racists merely serve the muddy the water further and give ammunition, however unwarranted, to the proponents of turning America into Mexico.
And we can never forget that Mexico is only one of dozens of poor third world countries that would love to foist off the poor and uneducated peasants onto the US to support. We cannot police the world and we cannot support it either.For a hundred years the Irish in NYC have had a St.Patrick's Day parade down Fifth Avenue. I've never heard anyone take offense as you do for Mexican-American festivals. The Lebanese have a "Leb Fest" with Lebanese food, music, etc., every August in parks around the Detroit suburbs, and I've never seen anyone upset about it or wearing or waving American flags at the events.
I agree that we can't "support the world" which we hardly are doing, more like shooting up the world, actually.My point, Ralph, is not that they have a celebration. It is that it is not an American celebration, nor is it a Mexican or Hispanic or religious or, as you put it, a Mexican-American one. The area I live in has a Basque to do every year, with ethnic foods and displays - it is great fun to attend and I fully support such things.
My problem is that Cinco de Mayo appears intended solely to irritate American citizens while strengthening the Mexican (not hispanic - Mexican) presence in America. It is not a "Mexican-American" (meaning, I assume, Americans of Mexican descent or origin) celebration and is causing considerable disruption in American cities with a high percentage of Mexican citizens living there. It is used in these locations as a way to set apart Mexican citizens from Americans instead of an introduction to old or different cultures and mores. I can't believe you didn't hear or read about the flak down south when those children were sent home for wearing an American flag, but it was probably a wise thing to do. It was also very wrong that such a decision had to be made at all and is one of the results when large numbers of aliens invade a country with no desire to actually join and become a part of that country.
There is another difference as well. Do the Irish or Lebanese factions you mention demand that someone else take care of them? Do they drive uninsured vehicles in violation of the law? Do they cause severe wage reductions from sheer numbers and a willingness to work for peanuts? Do they demand special considerations in court, or school or even for street signs? Do they demand someone else pay to educate their children? Do they, again through sheer numbers, destroy the viability of local hospitals and medical care? Do they over run the welfare system locally? Do they radically raise crime rates and cause large city sections to deteriorate into slums? The Americans of Basque heritage certainly don't, but the Mexicans in large parts of our country do just that and demand more.
These kind of actions do nothing to endear the "native" population to them and promoting a bogus celebration to emphasize difference and/or superiority only makes it worse, doubly so when violence or disruption is threatened if others don't agree.I am not Mexican but I love cinco de mayo. I drink margaritas and party. I hate to say this but if u have a problem with it u are probably a bigot. Have a shot of tequila and chill out. I like st Patricks day too so no one should accuse me of hating the Irish.
"I am not Mexican but I love cinco de mayo. I drink margaritas and party. I hate to say this but if u have a problem with it u are probably a bigot."
That doesn't make somebody a bigot.
Do you celebrate Juneteenth?
If not you must be a bigot.
Ridiculous.What is Juneteenth? Do you intend to make sense today, or is it business as usual?
You must be a bigot.
Ignorance of Juneteenth is a horrible offense.
And you are an attorney.
Shameful.
If you are legally here in the US and pay taxes as we all do...Welcome!
If you are here Illegally...Go home, go to jail or be deported!
There are those who degrade those against illegal aliens since they hate conservatives. But if they lost their jobs to an illegal alien or had a pay cut...they would sing a different tune.
It is so easy to judge others when You are not affected.
I am all for anyone who comes into this country in a "LEGAL" manner to work. I am for those who pay taxes. I am for those who pay for health services and receive appropriate wages equal to born Americans!
Working in construction I see many from Mexico who have a legal Visa to work here to better their families. I have no issue with that. I have made friends with many of guys who are here to work to better their families.
My problem is with the "illegal aliens" (which is the main issue)and in America, it is the Mexican population. Businesses exploit these people with lower wages and lower work standards.
Businesses want to lay off legal Americans (even Mexican background legal Americans) to pay cheaper labor cost to increase company profits.
This should be a felony crime and anyone caught in this practice sentenced to jail without parole. The rich business man can pay for a slap on the wrist fine (probably use as a tax write-off) and he will continue in his practice of hiring illegal aliens. Politicians will NOT stand against this. LOL, how would they raise campaign funds???That's very important point you have made there, Michael. I know you're saying policitians won't stand up against this, but here in Spain, if anyone is caught working illegally or without a contract (required by law), it is their employer who is fined, not the worker. The fine is a substantial 2 or 3,000 euros, perhaps higher if the employer's business can withstand it.
If I was a Mexican living in poverty, and a few miles away lay America which offered work and pay (even low pay) I'd be tempted to sneak into the country illegally too. It's a natural human desire to want to work and support a family.
Come down heavily on the employers and then the Mexicans or any other illegal worker would not be able to do it.Michael's second point is central to the issue - and I think (opinion) that politicians on both sides of the aisle (for now) will sabotage any effort to come up with a reliable system which employers would be required to use.
Where the philosophies differ is that conservatives will neglect employer based answers but they want to provide the voters with a circus of harassment, arrests and deportation. The result will be to play musical chairs with illegals - and no change in the situation for employers. Realistic estimates of the cost of deportation run upwards of 250 Billion dollars. The GOP will not plug security at the border in order to allow a source of illegal labor for the employers who pull their strings.
Democrats generally want to find a compormise, allowing SOME illegals with no arrests who have been in the US for a while a pathway to citizenship. If this is allowed for humanitarian reasons, democrats (I think) would work hard to close the border and crack down on employers - AFTER a humanitarian deal is cut.
On the issue of allowing SOME to stay - there seems no room for compromise from conservatives - and the result will be amnesty by omission. Nothing will change.
Well it is funny that you would bring up the race baiting because i did not.If you look at the question im simply saying why do conservative use us to install fear in to white folks.If you are worried about companies hiring illegals then write to your congressman and demand that they fight for immigration reform.I am reasonable as far as we can come to the middle on issues not just center right on everything.As far as the right actually give some ideas not just say no to everything like they are doing right now like they have any credibility since it was them who led us to this recession and from the moment obama became president they seem hell bent on keeping us there.
"Is the GOP in love with bashing Hispanics?"
Yes. Also other minorities, gays and lesbians, women who support their right to choose abortion, people who are worried about global warming, people who don't want Social Security "privatized"
(i.e., turned over to Wall Street banksters, and so forth....public education, poor people who cannot find decent paying jobs, dark skinned citizens (anyone other that white) born in this country, people who tell the truth, Muslims, mosque, animal rights, environmentalist, humanitarians, any other news journalist except FIXed news staions, victims of 911, victims of Katrina, freedom of speech unless it reflects their personal interest, clean energy...the first amendment, the 10th amendment, the 14th amendment... One would think they just hate the Constitution all together..equal rights, job opportunist, rules, food safety regulations, children with disabilities who need help, taxing rich people...
Well i think sandra and ralph said it well they hate anyone who has the reason but then there's jim hunter who rather pay the salary of a guy in congress so that he does not have to do anything but sit on his ass now that has to be the true meaning of conservatism.
- pcoachposted 13 years ago
0People, and you will know who I am addressing this to long before the end of this post. I avoid these forums on hubpages because they are dominated by liberals. So hubpages.com people running the company, I am not prone to "flagging" these liberal Idiots (I gave them proper respect, I used a capital letter for Idiots!) but be damned if I will participate in a forum where the only word is a liberal word!!
Now, if that is what hubpages.com is about, then please tell me so right now. I needn't waste my time nor effort on people like this.What is your point, exactly? Participate in the forums or don't. You aren't being censored.
It is funny that someone who not only avoided the subject because my argument is true but to dismiss it by saying that this social network is only for liberals for i see a lot of different opinions on here. I see that just because im a progressive and a mexican american and with the facts to support my discussion all i hear against it is it's race baiting and this is for liberals but none can provide me with any details as to prove me or anyone else who agree with me wrong.
I think you all need to recognize that people who are NOT here legally should NOT be here.
I have yet to see my original points addressed.
What a study claims about our future population and what it truly will be are two different things.
I would like to see these studies and know if they included illegal aliens.
I would like to know if they counted bi-racial people as Hispanic.
If I was in a country illegally I would NOT shoot off my mouth and be stupid enough to show up in public especially at protests.
This is just the kind of thing that would encourage the residents to get me OUT of their country faster. If THAT happened it wouldn't matter how many kids I was irresponsibly having while a criminal.Generally people who are bi-racial consider themselves to be the ethnic heritage.
"If I was in a country illegally, I would NOT shoot off my mouth and be stupid enough to show up in public especially at protest."
But your solution is to find them where ever they are hiding and deport them regardless, even if they had done nothing wrong?
Tell me again why they are criminals? There is such a thing as naturalized citizenship. If they can be here for (state established) years without getting in trouble, they are naturalized citizens. If you want to pretend you are upholding justice and the Constitution, then you would know that they are not breaking the law.
So, are you saying their only "crime" is that they got caught? And your solution is to seek them out and deport them so that they cannot be citizens.There are apparently 12 million people who "are not here legally," nearly all of them law abiding, hard working people. Many of them have been here a long time. Thoughtful people recognize that rounding them up and sending them back is not practical or fair, especially in cases where some family members are citizens and some not. President Bush and Ted Kennedy recognized this and proposed a comprehensive immigration reform bill which unfortunately didn't pass. Their bill included tighter enforcement at the border and offering a path to legalization for the undocumented immigrants who are already here and who wish to stay legally. What's wrong with that approach?
Under the current regulations it's difficult if not impossible for an undocumented immigrant to become legal.The fact that they broke the law to come here automatically means they are NOT law-abiding people. Additionally, no one can say they are law-abiding or hard-working or anything else since we don't have anyway to totally monitor these people.
But--again--I am not interested in discussing stats that no one can prove. No one has addressed my original issues.
The state of CA already had one amnestia program--I have been told--and yet still we have ILLEGAL ALIENS. I wonder why? I'm not going to sit here and claim they all enjoy not paying taxes and getting all these things for free so they didn't take advantage of the program. Maybe some of them were too scared because they knew they had broken laws enterign the country or maybe some of them were too stupid--I don't know. There could be lots of reasons.
There are a lot of things we do that one or two people here think of as "not practical". I am not concerned with being "fair". They were not concerened with being "fair" when they entered the country illegally. If they want their families to stay together then they can all move back to wherever the came from together.
There are a lot of things that one or two people might call "difficult". To some people getting up in the morning is considered "difficult".
Again, I posted a few questions to the OP--just reposted them with the comment that people should read my original posting and yet I am still being drawn into other conversations about issues that have nothing to do with my original concerns and/or do nothing to address the fact that illegal is illegal.
Sure, if every illegal alien were heavily fined for everything we paid for for them since they entered the country, fined for entering the country in such a way, sent to the back of the immigration line, etc, that might work for people who suddenly are concerned about our country's actions not being practical or costing money.
Are they going to be required to learn English so we can stop wasting money on all the bilingual forms and signs and the hiring problems that come about because of no knowledge of the English language? Is everyone going to acknowledge that what these people did was WRONG? If so, maybe--just maybe--the idea is worth consideration.
But, again, my original concerns have YET to be addressed!"The fact that they broke the law to come here automatically means they are NOT law-abiding people. "
No, it doesn't.
"I am not concerned with being "fair"." [Or practical.]
You've made that pretty clear. That says it all.I see I need to clarify.
I am not concerned with being YOUR definition of "fair". Hence my use of quotes.
The second statement should not need clarification BUT if you insist:
My point is if you entered the country illegally you have already broken a law and if you reside here illegally you CONTINUE to break the law and therefore you are NOT a law-abiding person.
OK.
I have work to do now.
I am not concerned with being what YOU might call "practical" other than what I have already detailed previously.
What I AM concerned about is no one has managed to address my original questions and yet they INSIST on drawing me into other conversations!
All your hostility appears to be directed toward the immigrants and none toward the employers who hire them.
As for calling liberals idiots with emphasis by capitalizing it is truly amazing. As conservatives you should know that it's the right who are special. Whenever they disagree with something they can't use facts to support their argument so they turn to the bible yet they are quick to say liberals don't know the constitution but their whole argument is wrong by the fact that in the constitution it implies there should be a separation of church and state. Then you got sharon angle the senate candidate out of nevada who says it does not say that then other republicans always praising the constitution only when it benefits them. Conservatives are special to believe that your party can help us bring the economy back with the same policies that bush incorporated during his presidency like tax cuts for the rich then gut the middle class with high taxes which is almost non existant now which will bring us right back into the recession we are getting out of slowly. But if that happens it is special people on the right that will yet again vote for the grand old party again because they have to stop obama and his socialist agenda ,right?.In my blog on the nation social network i started a discussion asking i give up on america because it is special people like those on the tea party who are filled hypocracy that they want smaller government yet they still want government run entitlements like social security and medicare but they are against healthcare reform because they are against government run entitlements which is a form of socialism then they have a nice flag saying don't tread on me but then you got republicans trying to abolish social security which they are dependent on like 20 million folks. So in other words you guys are special republicans like corporations and will tell you anything because you have the power to put them in office but democrats help us help unions and at least they are working to get us out of this shithole conservatives drove us into. Then another reason you guys are special is you guys believe everything fox says black panthers scary so white people go vote for republicans because obama is black and he won't protect you, van jones is evil white people so go vote for republicans because obama is black,acorn is bad they help low income families,blacks,get homes near you white people so go vote for republicans,shirley sherrod is a racist in the obama administration so go vote for the republicans.Yet im race baiting ,really?,fox scares white folks,conservatives,to go vote for the gop they say they are fair and balanced but at least 20 of the folks on there fund raise for the gop so explain where's the fairness. Yet im an idiot because im a progressive,liberal and because im not scared by blacks,because i'm for healthcare reform,financial reform,immigration reform,cap and trade,gay rights,pro-choice,campaign finance reform,oh and because i believe in the constitution when it says we have freedom of religion,press,speech,right to bear arms,and everything in there not just when it benefits me. So if that makes me an idiot i welcome that word as a compliment.
I give up trying to read your posts!
Try using paragraphs and "caps". Try using spell-check and grammar check.
Your English might be better than my Espanol but only by a "poquito".That is the infamous saying from the Conservatives, "I not going to read that." We know you don't want to read already. That has been established time and time again among Conservatives.
LOL- and now you are saying you can speak Spanish almost better than a person who speaks Spanish as a first language! Arrogant.First of all I am not even going to point out your own errors.
Unlike you I will not engage in personal attacks and avoid the points made.
I enjoy reading. However, I was not going to struggle through a long piece that does not contain proper punctuation, grammatical errors and does not employ paragraphs.
It has nothing to do with my politics which--by the way --you know little about if anything.
LOL- Now YOU are proving that you did not read or at least COMPREHEND what I wrote in plain ENGLISH!
Read it again! I NEVER said my Spanish was better than anyone else's.
By the way, where did the OP say his FIRST language was Spanish? Did you assume or did I miss the post? If I missed it show me where he said that.
Some Americans of Hispanic descent do not speak ANY Spanish. I have worked with several of them.
Read carefully before you attack someone and please stick to the issues.
The only reason I am still here is because my woman couldn't sleep.
I have better things to do than repeat myself to someone who is so anxious to insult me that she misreads what I actually wrote.You said, "Your English might be better than my Espanol but only by a "poquito"."
I haven't insulted or attacked you in anyway. If speaking liberally is insulting to you then I am sorry you cannot accept that people do have different views then you.Yes. That is what I said.
I said someone else's English might be better than my Spanish.
Yes, if you re-read all your posts to me you will see that you took personal shots at me.
Reread our conversations and you will see this.
In fact, you just implied that I was unaccepting of the opinions of others above here. That is a negative remark as well.
I accept the opinions of others. I don't tell people they are right when they are wrong, however.Why not get back onto the topic? Write us a poem about how you hate Mexican immigrants. Or one about the great hero of Phoenix, Sheriff Joe Arpaio?
How does what i wrote have multiple errors when you say you will not take the time to read. Then you turn to insults that only shows how limited you are in your argument that sandra keeps pointing out in her argument.
Now for your politics it is obvious you are conservative since you take issue with everything that is said on here by myself and others. Therefore your insults only point out to someone with limited reasoning. As a progressive i can insult you too like i have in previous sentences but let's turn to the issues instead.
We are all grown up's now so let's agree to act like one and stop with the insults. Aque parar con las insultas i aque hablar como adultos debes como ninos porque creo que tu i yo semos adultos.
Maybe you Americans should remember that all south USA was Spanish 2 centuries ago, as well as the land of the natives, which weren't Americans. So where does that leave you ? You were criminals just as the nowadays 'illegals'. But worse, for to retain those lands you killed thousands of innocent people. Maybe you should remember...
I watched Mexicans brick a half million dollar house from across the street. I was painting inside a similar house. I sat and watched them work on my lunch hour. They used primitive tools and rusted scaffolding. An old man would toss bricks up from his arm load to the workers on the scaffolding.
Their timing was perfect....I didn't see one brick drop. I was amazed...their work was almost symphonic by the sounds of trowels and bricks being set in the mortar.
I had no idea if they were legal or not? One who spoke English...communicated with the builder. I would guess...the builder was paying them less than half of scale wages and putting the (kicked back) balance in his pocket.
The only reason I say that is....I was offered the same type of deal. The builder said I could hire Mexicans to keep my costs down and pocket more of what the bank controller allowed.
With that in mind....the real culprit here is greed. Follow the money and find the problem.
All of the Latinos I've ever worked around and with have been like myself. They want to work and raise their families in peace. That is the kind of citizens America needs.
Yes...there is a crime element...in all people. Perhaps the media could stop covering Latino gangs and do documentaries of Latino families who are enhancing their own lives and others. I am sure the news crews could find more than enough stories in any neighborhood.
This isn't about liberal or conservative attitudes and ideals...neither is worth a bag of bulls**t when it comes down to providing for one's family.
This is not a Mexican immigrant problem. It is...as usual...a problem of greed and political manipulation.
Maybe we should hire the above mentioned crew to build a wall...around the real problem...selfishness.I wish we had a "thumbs up" button for posts that we like but don't have a comment to add; I would use it here.
There it is again phoenix poet rather insult me than actually give me some facts to counter my response directly towards him. Pero lo que me hiso enojar es que me quiere hacer mirar como si yo no puedo escribir bien mira senor no me importa si no te gusta porque no estoy aqui para ensenar si puedo o no.
How about bring some facts to the discussion instead of insulting people because like you said your looking like an idiot.A lot gets made of the 'criminal' act of entering this country without documents. It's not a violation of the criminal code. It's a violation of the civil code, and a misdemeanor.
Yes, it is much like saying a person who got a speeding ticket is a criminal. Dirty law breakers!
Again, no one has posted any links to PROVE the point so no point in discussing it. The point is, there is a reason why they refer to it as entering the country ILLEGALLY.
I have had a speeding ticket or two and I never was jailed for it. Nor did it involve my NOT paying taxes and getting free services to which I was not entitled.
It is illegal.
Don't belittle it and don't downplay it.
There are no links in any previous post proving it's only a violation of civil code.
It IS possible to be liberal and comprehend English. It IS possible to be liberal and to not want people to be here ILLEGALLY.Actually, you managed to avoid the loophole in the system that doesn't criminalize illegal immigration.
In fact, it used to be that if people could come here and be here for so many years and maintain residency and pay their taxes, they could become naturalized citizens as long as they gave up their citizenship to their birth country in favor of America.
In 2003, Bush immigration reform made it so they had to have workers visas and only allowed so many to be issued.
The catch 22 being that employers had to obtain proof of citizenship via a social security card or 'papers' however this was only for employers who employed more than three people otherwise they are not required to obtain proof of citizenship.
Bush reform did not repeal the naturalization clause of people being allowed to enter the states; so they could still come and establish residency legally per the naturalized citizens clause and they are not criminals or breaking the law.
What he did was make it harder for people get residency to establish their citizenship and reduce the number of the newly defined "illegal immigration", into the country without having to grant amnesty.
Also note, amnesty was granted to immigrants living here prior to 1982 and it was established that only 1 person in their family to be a naturalized citizen to be given birth right citizenship.
So for any, as you call them, "illegal immigrants" were here prior to 1982, they are naturalized citizens and their children are birth right citizens per the 'travelers clause' stating that American citizens who gave birth in foreign countries while still paying their taxes to this country are also citizens.
Of the so many "illegals" as you call them, 2/3 if not more have the right to be here and they are technically citizens to this country unless they give up that right on their own.
Many of the focus we see to day in on Immigrant Farm workers who by these loopholes, are here legally and working to establish residency legally and the employers are also employing them legally.
You solution is to find them and deport them and take away their right to pursue the "American Dream" because you fear they are taking away your jobs.
So the 'fact' is, your jobs are not in jeopardy from illegal immigration because it is required by law to submit proof of citizenship but you are essentially trying to criminalize citizens who can legally employee immigrants because of the loophole.WOw sandra great work on the nice reporting. gracias
Your welcome. I also wanted to note the clause on military naturalization which grants citizenship to folks who serve at least (1 year I think) in the US armed forces.
This would also grant their family citizenship through the naturalization through marriage clause.
I am not interested in any claims you make about past loopholes. The past is the past. Additionally, you did not provide any links to proof of any of your claims.
Please don't make ANy claims you cannot back up with links, okay? This is the internet and people can say whatever they want whether it's true or false.
The point is, that there are a lot of people here illegally and they do not belong here.
It's that simple.
There is a right way and a wrong way to enter and exit ANY country.
Right is right and wrong is wrong.
In a bit I am simply going to ignore any more proofless claims and bullsh*t and simply repeat my original points which have yet to be addressed by the OP himself.
I am happy, however, that it seems like you are truly reading every word now instead of just scanning and reacting.
Thanks for that, at any rate.And this post was replete with detailed accurate information and source links. Thank you for showing us the way.
"This is the internet and people can say whatever they want whether it's true or false."
I think that can be assumed a true statement with out "detailed accurate information and source links."
But if you still don't believe it, I am the Pope. See, I said anything.
"The point is, that there are a lot of people here illegally and they do not belong here."
"There is a right way and a wrong way to enter and exit ANY country.
Right is right and wrong is wrong."
If you need a source to verify this then you haven't been paying attention.I just think if everyone is going to stray from the original statement of the OP to personally snipe at each other then they should at least try to show the sources.
I don't truly need the sources myself because my original points--directly related to theOP's first post--have yet to be addressed.
Therefore, I am happy to assume my original points are being avoided simply because no one can adequately address them.
Start from the first post and read from there and you'll see what I mean.No, I don't but if you wish to argue with others about things besides whether or not the "gop" hates hispanics then I think it would at least make you look like you did your homework.
Sure bud! Your original sentiments are that Hispanics are undesirable and criminals.
You refuse to accept anything other than your pov. or give credible detailed sources or links for why you have come to believe the way that you do.
I told you about the naturalization clauses which you could easily look up if you wanted to understand why 'illegal' immigration doesn't make them criminals.
You refuse to answer a simple question on how you think people become citizens.
You refuse to read most of what anyone wants to offer you and you nit pick hoping to avoid answering or acknowledging certain things that make your pov. incorrect.No. I said I am not interested in digging up past laws which are no longer in exsistence. CA already had a period of amnestia and any illegal alien could have taken advantage of it. Then again, I am not interested in digging up the past.
Go back and read my very first post.
MY mistake was allowing myself to be distracted by everything else in the first place. You know nothing of me so don't pretend otherwise.
I asked the OP some basic questions which were never answered.
Then you told me I was the kind of person who was against birthright citizenship. MY mistake was to respond to that remark when I had NOT said anything about that in the first place.
ANYONE who actually goes back to my first post will see that. My P.O.V.--notice I did NOT nitpick your "pov"--was not the point. I have attempted to avoid opinions, in fact. Illegal is illegal and I have no intention on debating any DEGREES of unlawfullness or illegality or semantics or whether or not there used to be so-called loopholes available in the past.
Again, re-read my very first post--whcih was directed to the OP--and you will see I asked some questions that have yet to be answered.
I don't care about any other distractions. Perhaps I should ignore further distractions no matter how wrong they are from here on in, huh?
I want answers to my questions not people assuming they know so much about the past or about ME.
Then apparently you haven't read all the posts. Like my post about George W. Bush. I directly write about the Republicans position.
Go figure.....!
Maybe you are the one avoiding the topic.
However, I think you need to calm down. This is just a forum.
I think there are a few others who should take that advice, too--but it won't happen...never does!
Point taken. I did use the word "everyone" although it should be assumed that there are exceptions to every rule.
Those directly addressing whether or not the "gop" hates Hispanics would be the exception to this rule.
I was not aware I was upset.
I believe I was one of the first people to point out this is just an internet forum where anyone can say anything with little or no proof.
The funny thing is, no one, not even the OP has responded to my original concerns. I posed a couple of relevant questions, someone accused me of being against birth citizenship and instead of pointing out I never said that and going on with my life I made the foolish mistake of stating my true opinion on birth citizenship and here I am--wasting time with the rest of you!
I had nothing to prove so there are no links needed.
Feel free to be the first person to actually respond to my original points rather than attempt to give me sh*t because you think I am stupid enough to be distracted.
There's no point in nitpicking since it is still illegal and no one has given any specific references to check. It is illegal. Even if we assume what you said is correct it it still illegal.
I think you should read carefully, a misdemeanor is a classification of a criminal charge.
Just because its listed in the civil code doesn't change that fact.
Yes it is a misdemeanor, a misdemeanor that has a possible sentence of 6 months or for subsequent offenses up to two years.
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
at any time or place other than as designated by immigration
officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration
officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United
States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
I think that it is unfair and irresponsible to label every GOP member anti Hispanic. This problem is much larger and more involved than that. People in general are upset that U.S. citizens who live along the border have to fear for their lives, and that includes the U.S. Boarder Guards.
Instead of placing the blame on the U.S., why aren't the Hispanics doing something about their own country? Where is the outrage against their own government and their incompetent handling of the drug cartels? They wouldn't be fleeing in droves to the U.S. if their country was flourishing. The busloads of Californians who came to AZ should have spent their time and money in a better way by protesting the Mexican government- that is what should be blamed here and what we should be upset with. They created the problem and now we have to deal with it.I do agree that the mexican govt. is the responsible party but even if president calderon does not succeed he is at least trying to do something about the cartels.
Now as for your argument about the citizens along the border there is statistics showing that they are the safest cities in the united states. Be it el paso,san diego,phoenix each of these cities are safer than ever before.
As for us not taking a stand against the mexican govt. it is only so much they can do. It is the demand of the people of the united states that fuels the cartels.
What im saying is that every election period there is always that anti-illegal rhetoric towards primarily the hispanic side. Therefore i have something against that since i'm a hispanic born here to parents who we're naturalized here. I understand the ecoonomic problem going on now but to turn to repealing or changing the 14 amendment because of anchor babies that is proposterous.I agree, there is anti-illegal rhetoric towards the hispanic side, but I don't believe you can place all of the blame on the GOP. (Mind you, I'm not GOP- I just love a good argument). There are plenty of liberals who talk out of both sides of their faces and only say what you want to hear, at least as long as the microphone is on.
To add more fuel to the flame though, I do believe that President Obama is rather enjoying all of the in-fighting, on both sides of the political aisles over this issue. The current administration is using this issue to turn people against each other, even those who are here illegally. All of us are pawns and the end game seems to be some sort of revolution where only the elite stand to gain.
It is certainly a shame, since Obama was supposed to bring people together. Instead, he has certainly driven more than his share of wedges to the point people are talking about secession. He seems to have forgotten about individual state's rights.
As for the safety along the border, that is a really tough sell. I don't think many people will be spending their vacation dollars there anytime soon.
- cosetteposted 13 years ago0
you know....i would like to ask all the people, especially Sandra going on and on about the poor anchor babies' rights to step up and volunteer to foster some of these children whose parents get deported. these people are deliberately conceiving and having babies on American soil as leverage i mean what kind of evil people would tear apart a family, right?
or why not start your own foundation with like-minded liberal thinkers to help out these quote unquote undocumented workers, how would that be?
it's easy to be vocal about these issues but far harder to step up and do something about it. the fact is, illegal aliens cost the United States billions of dollars every year in welfare, food assistance, educational assistance (English language classes), etc. not to mention millions of dollars spent to incarcerate illegal aliens, who make up 30 percent of the federal prison population. (according to CNN)
and exactly how do they 'pay taxes'? most of them are paid in cash in little brown envelopes. the ones who get paid by check use stolen or fake SSN's...how else COULD they be on a company payroll while being here illegally?
i live in Arizona and know first-hand what is going on in our state. illegals are very well organized and well connected in the community and have a lot of powerful people behind them. i was sympathetic to their plight, and still am insofar as i would not refuse a parched person water to drink, etc. from a humanitarian perspective, but really, it is outrageous to see people who basically break and enter into a country protesting outside the state government's offices waving the Mexican flag. the once pristine wildlife preserves of the Sonoran desert are being destroyed by border crossers and coyote's vehicles and no one seems to care about that. or drophouses in which 40 or more illegal aliens are crammed into a single-family home. there is at least one story a week about drophouses in Phoenix. seriously, do you want that in your neighborhood? then why not open one with a big sign (in Spanish) that says Illegals Welcome.
what if these illegal aliens were oh, say Muslim? would you feel the same way? do you support this cause because it is fashionable?
p.s. you can't call me a bigot - i am half Latino!"what if these illegal aliens were oh, say Muslim? would you feel the same way? do you support this cause because it is fashionable?"
They support them because it helps their party's voting base.
"p.s. you can't call me a bigot - i am half Latino!"
They will say you are at least half bigoted, its not about whats true its about demonizing people to get their way.You know what is ironic about what you insist is true is that you are supporting a party that is deliberately trying to undermined the Constitution. If they get their way, they want to repeal the 14th because they don't want 'you' here either because if they managed to do just that, it would repeal all the immigration laws which would in turn take away your rights as a citizen.
Pander all you want at how glorious you believe what your state is doing but the truth is, if you support them you will also find yourself on a bus back to a land that you did not grow up in.
There is nothing illegal about people coming to America. It has and always was the American way no matter how hard you want to change it.
You can ignore the laws all you want to but they are there and there isn't anything you can do to change that unless you also give up your rights and that is the irony of the republicans.
I say good on the Latino American's for changing parties because the Republicas as they portray themselves today are nothing more that ignorant folks with superiority complexes who have no idea what they are doing and fooling you, a half latina American into believing you are doing what is right.
If you are half, as you say you are then you became a citizen through the very same means as everyone else which inevitably would have been through the naturalization and birth right citizenship clauses and protection of the 14th.
If you want to argue about 'anchor' babies as you called them, then go right ahead and be a disgrace to not only your parent who would have done the very same thing as the 'anchor' babies mothers had done to do what they felt was best for their children.
Unbelievable that you would somehow criminalize your own folks or grandfolks or whomever it was that made it possible for you to be a citizen.
i don't think calling illegals illegals is supporting any particular party. they are in this country illegally. they snuck in, right? they steal people's SSNs or create fake ones, more criminal behavior. and they have babies right away..lots of them, and i didn't coin the phrase 'anchor baby'. think about it Sandra, would you go to a country illegally, live underground and then start bringing children into the equation? how is that being responsible?
oh, i can't be bovvered with anything that woman (IntimateWhataver) has to say. she is always foaming at the mouth when she sees me for some inexplicable reason.
i don't know who you are but that is funny
i submit that any illegal alien who wants to remain here enter a tough program similar to the ones Green Berets do, learn English and then sign up for a tour of duty and defend the land they claim to love. then when they complete their tour of duty they will be granted full citizenship, and so will their spouse and children who were born in Mexico.
thank you.There is a substantive difference between "undermining" the constitution and lawfully changing it. The Republican party, with respect to the 14th amendment, is trying to do the latter. I think it is a little insane, and is more a form of pandering to xenophobia than anything they seriously expect to accomplish. But changing the Constitution through the proper means does not undermine it...the mechanism for change is within the Constitution itself.
well i agree some of the people associated with that party do pander, as you say, to xenophobia. i don't fear Mexicans taking over the country but it does rub me the wrong way when i see them loudly protesting American ways whilst waving Mexican flags. i think it is disrespectful. if Americans did that in Mexico we would be arrested and thrown into a dirty cell not unlike the ones in the film Traffic.
Now the constitution isn't a living document?
Now it can't be changed?
More of the same.
Liberals want the constitution changed when it suits them.
When a misguided republican does it the constitution is written in stone.Stop trolling the forums and responding to posts without reading them. I responded to a post that said that Republican efforts to amend the 14th amendment "undermined" the Constitution. I disagreed with that comment.
Do you have the authority to tell me to stop posting in the forums?
I'll do as I please.
Have you researched Juneteenth and come to terms with your ignoring it for so long?
Horrible offense.I never purported to speak on behalf of Hubpages when I told you to stop trolling and to read posts before responding to them. Thanks for dodging the issue again. I previously stated that Republicans were not undermining the Constitution by seeking to amend the 14th amendment. You attacked my position without understanding my post at all.
I didn't attack your position I responded to the post and put my 2cents in, it was not in opposition to your position.
I think you are the one who doesn't understand.
I don't care if you understand or not so all is good.
Have you atoned for missing Juneteenth all these years?
WT....? Cosette I'm not sure where you get your bias information. However, each year illegal immigrants pay over 1.5 trillion dollars into our social security fund. So needless to say, the pay their own way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_i … ted_StatesFrom your source
"Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security."
1.5 Trillion? We could sure pay down on our debt if that were true.According to a five year old article. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/busin … ation.html
I didn't look at the date because it wasn't my source.
Do you have a source that backs the 1.5 Trillion dollar statement?Whatever the case- 7 billion is more than 4 billion. So America indeed prosper from illegals. When you look at the numbers, illegals paid an extra 3 billion dollars over Cosette's estimation of costing the US 4 billion. That was just Mexican numbers too. There are other illegals living here, it isn't just the Mexicans. You can add that number can't you?
Whatever the case- 1.5 Trillion is more than 7 billion.
Her source didn't specify whether it was just Mexican illegals or all illegals combined, if it did I didn't see it.
I was not defending Cossetts estimate I was showing that Intimate evolutions was wrong.
I can add but none of the numbers thrown out even come close to 1.5 Trillion.
Is there anything else you want to dispute?Whatever the case- 1.5 trillion is pointless to me. Argue that point with Julie. I have just schooled you mathematics, provided you with article sources and even provided numbers that validate Julie's notion that illegals pay their way here in America, unlike Cosette's position.
That's the case.
Now the fact that you are so driven to ignore the facts that I have presented you, by hiding behind IE's illogical numbers is pointless to me.
The fact of the case is that I'm in here, arguing with you over the point that no matter the numbers- illegals pay their own way.
Got it? Good.No I don't got it.
No they don't pay their own way, their are more illegals not paying taxes than there are paying taxes.
You didn't prove anything, except that 7 Billion is more than 4 Billion.
On the other hand I proved that they do not pay 1.5 Trillion a year into Social Security.
I proved that 1.5 Trillion is more than 7 Billion and 4 Billion combined.I'm assuming -when you factor in all that benevolence illegals are paying into our system- that you're also taking into account the cost of imprisonment, the rapes, murders, robberies, drug-trafficking, human trafficking and sex slave trade these pious and holy, poorly under-appreciated illegal aliens inflict on unsuspecting innocents, yes?
Committing the crimes Americans won't do. YES. I know; Not every immigrant who sneaks across our southern boarder illegally has criminal intentions beyond making a better life for himself, but a far greater percentage of illegal immigrants commit crimes than do not. Beyond that whole, sneaking in illegally thing, of coarse.
At least using an Anchor Baby seems a little closer to lawful than just walking across.
And just so you can understand, they use stolen SS numbers and taxes are withheld from their checks accordingly.
WT...? Is right.
- ahorsebackposted 13 years ago0
You couldn't be more wrong in bashing the gop for hispanic favor or disfavor, up until the great 'hope and change' thing hispanics tended to be more conservative, check your history........Good luck to them now if they do go for the politically correct tyraids of the left.......
Here I just typed into google search, "illegals made America 1.5 trillion."
I found this, http://illuminate.newsvine.com/_news/20 … he-economy. Maybe this is where Julie is getting her information. I don't know. All I do know is that she appears to be correct.
In 2005, the article says that a source reported that;
"illegal immigrants contributed $428 billion dollars to the nation's $13.6 trillion gross domestic product in 2006." Well take 428 billion and times that by 5. What number do you get? I bet it is over a trillion dollars.
My point is arguing numbers that large is nuts. It is all a matter of semantics at that point.
Did they pay for their own benefits, YES.
Did they make the US a profit and still pay for their benefits- YES!That source says 1.5 trillion over a 10 year period.
That is not what the OP said.
She said
"each year illegal immigrants pay over 1.5 trillion dollars into our social security fund."
What exactly do you or anybody have that supports that statement?You all are off topic first of all.
Second of all, estimates on wikipedia are questionable to begin with and
Third not one source on the internet will state that ALL illegal immigrants pay ALL their taxes, etc.
Fourth, there are some illegal aliens who had the chance to start the wheels turning on doing things the right way . . . no doubt THIS group at least attempts to pay taxes.
ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL.
Everything else is just not as important.
Plus, it's all off topic.
The OP accused the 'gop' of "hating" a certain group of people.Would you like to enlighten everyone on how you believe people became citizens and what the 14th Amendment says. Oh, and also give me a list of links that would be credible enough for you to accept since the Constitution or government links seem to be unacceptable.
No. I would not. I am finished with my original statements being ignored.
The GOP does not hate Hispanics exclusively. They are happy to extend their hatred to:
African Americans, Muslims, gays, college graduates, most ferunners in general, New Yorkers, Californians, Chinese, Arabs, Antarcticans, baby seals, non-Fox media, poor, tired, huddled masses yearning to be free, the homeless, pregnant girls, personal hygiene, book larnin', trees, wind power, gulf shellfish, John Stewart, Iraqis, the ninth circuit court of appeals, lesbians, French, Robert Mapplethorpe, Kurt Vonnegut, freedom of speech, trans genders, air hockey, clean air, hemp.....Ted Turner, Rachel Maddow, sailor and soldiers who are not white, Polynesians, Indonesians, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, public schools, womens rights to choose, freedom of religion, the 10th amendment which is truly more ironic since they want their state to supracede the Constitution...
Civil rights, Haitians, themselves, potable water, Allah, synchronized swimming, the metric system, the 14th amendment, blue, Mongolians...
... tattoos, healthy people, critical thinking, reading, watering the grass on Sundays, climate change, moderation, conservation, clean energy, fish from the Sea, brown trout, candles made from clean burning soy, people who don't speak English as their first language, Hollywood celebrities, woman who chose not to marry, gay adoption, rainbows... Maybe we should list what they do like instead.
Aw touche' Jim Hunter you finally made me laugh.
Actually, they do like climate change.
- ahorsebackposted 13 years ago0
Right ........This is why I dropped out of politics as an interest, the absolute control of intellect by political corectness, man listen to yourselves talk like you are talking truth boxes......bye....
I'm glad. I thought it best to try to get some of the off-topic conversations back on topic as simply ans as quickly as possible.
No . . . nor was it off-topic one-liners or personal shots at people one knows nothing about.
This is why the right are just in it to keep us in the worst shape ever. It is not about progressing it's about keeping everything how it used to be before the civil rights act.Isn't that what rand paul wanted to say awhile back well isn't that what the tea party and most conservatives want state rights then they got the nerve to compare themselves to martin luther king junior.
For those of you NOT just looking to give crap to someone you know little or nothinhg about but are too damn lazy to go back and locate my first response I will repost the gist of it:
First of all, I believe that one needs to discuss the specifics of the studies that say that Hispanics will be the majority in 20 years.
Did the study include the number of illegals who will quite possibly be dealt with within the next two decades? Did the study consider bi-racial people as Hispanics? Remember, statistics don't lie, people do.
Where sandra got that I was against birth citizernship from THIS post I have no idea.
Shame on her for making an assumption like that.
Shame on ME for allowing myself to let people bait and distract me!
Again, my original response to the OP:
First of all, I believe that one needs to discuss the specifics of the studies that say that Hispanics will be the majority in 20 years.
Did the study include the number of illegals who will quite possibly be dealt with within the next two decades? Did the study consider bi-racial people as Hispanics? Remember, statistics don't lie, people do.Since so many of you insist on distracting me with other issues and no one wants to address my original concerns let me re-post someone else's concerns and questions to keep you busy:
"My problem is that Cinco de Mayo appears intended solely to irritate American citizens while strengthening the Mexican (not hispanic - Mexican) presence in America. It is not a "Mexican-American" (meaning, I assume, Americans of Mexican descent or origin) celebration and is causing considerable disruption in American cities with a high percentage of Mexican citizens living there. It is used in these locations as a way to set apart Mexican citizens from Americans instead of an introduction to old or different cultures and mores. I can't believe you didn't hear or read about the flak down south when those children were sent home for wearing an American flag, but it was probably a wise thing to do. It was also very wrong that such a decision had to be made at all and is one of the results when large numbers of aliens invade a country with no desire to actually join and become a part of that country.
There is another difference as well. Do the Irish or Lebanese factions you mention demand that someone else take care of them? Do they drive uninsured vehicles in violation of the law? Do they cause severe wage reductions from sheer numbers and a willingness to work for peanuts? Do they demand special considerations in court, or school or even for street signs? Do they demand someone else pay to educate their children? Do they, again through sheer numbers, destroy the viability of local hospitals and medical care? Do they over run the welfare system locally? Do they radically raise crime rates and cause large city sections to deteriorate into slums? The Americans of Basque heritage certainly don't, but the Mexicans in large parts of our country do just that and demand more.
These kind of actions do nothing to endear the 'native' population to them and promoting a bogus celebration to emphasize difference and/or superiority only makes it worse, doubly so when violence or disruption is threatened if others don't agree."
I have some PAID writing I need to take care of, okay? I also have to look for a full-time job. I STILL don't have one because where I live so many jobs require you to speak alanguage other than what we use here in America AND HubPages--which IS--by the way--ENGLISH!
Maybe I should go stand outside of Home Depot so I could earn some TAX-FREE money--which of course--is easily worth MORE than minimum wage!- PrettyPantherposted 13 years ago0
Let's remember that illegal immigrants come here in search of a better life, and let's not forget that U.S. employers hire them. The issue is complicated and cannot be solved by demonizing the immigrants who only want what all human beings want for themselves and for their children.
I don't have the answer but I do know that placing the blame on impoverished people is much easier than going after the greedy employers who have money to fight back. Gee, some of you folks have to have the last word even though you totally ignore some of what the other people say.
It's hilarious some of you are even arguing with people who are not even here anymore!Who's arguing with people that are not even here anymore? Which people are not here anymore that are getting argued with?
Near as I can tell PhoenixPoet was banned. I click on porfiles sometimes when I read what people say. Seems Ralph and one of the women are arguing with someone who was banned.
If you read all the posts neither one said anything regarding his original points either. Gotta love these forums!You attack his character after he has been banned and can no longer defend himself.
I'm not so sure that doesn't say something about you as well. . . not that I am here to judge anyone.
After all, it would be quite foolish to talk about anyone you know little or nothing about, right?
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