Detroit Councilwoman wants payoff from President--bailout.

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   Barefootfaeposted 11 years ago

   http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/20264 … support-us
   
   Once again....people say there is no entitlement mentality in out nation.
   I say BS.

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      Quilligrapherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Good Evening, Ms. Fae.
      
      Detroit is a great example of how badly the Great Recession has hammered many American cities. A city government desperately strapped, struggling, and looking for help is hardly representative of an “entitlement mentality.” The fact that you think Detroit's search for a solution is BS may just depend on which way the wind is blowing.
      
      The Fox2 News article linked in the OP statement seems more balanced than the title of this thread. Perhaps you missed the part that said:
      “The White House has expressed no plans to bailout the cash-crunched city…The federal government has bailed out cities in the past, however. In 1975, President Gerald Ford extended more than $2 billion in credit to New York City to help it avoid a financial collapse.”
      
      Sometimes you have to read the whole article to reach an accurate perspective.
      
      I hope you have a pleasant evening, Ms. Fae.
      

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         Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         How can you type that with a straight face? Detroit's problems are due to this recession? Are you running for National office? Detroit's problem is it is run by democrats, period! End of story!

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            Quilligrapherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Hi there RG. Nice of you to contribute to the discussion.
            
            Actually, it is not the end of the story just because you and Ms. Fae seem bent on placing a political spin on the financial crisis facing many cities in America. Democrats do not control all of the struggling local governments and school districts despite what you may think. Having a one-sided perspective can sometimes play havoc with one’s ability to assimilate obvious facts.
            
            “The problems that have taken Detroit to the precipice of fiscal disaster have been building for years. Even with massive spending cuts over the last decade, the city is still losing population and tax revenue faster than it can trim its budget.” {1}
            
            In the wake of the Great Recession, the growth of the auto industry in Detroit has improved receipts from income, sales, and some business taxes. “According to Chris Hoene, director of research for the National League of Cities, those sources of revenue respond much faster to economic improvement than property taxes, which are the major source of local government revenue. The state has also benefited from its ability to make steep cuts to the financial support it gives to local governments, adding to Detroit's woes. {2}
            
            “Years of decline in population and businesses and a shrinking of the tax base have pushed Detroit into a deep financial hole despite a recent resurgence in the U.S. auto industry.” {3}
            
            “Detroit, with a population of 714,000, has faced hard times with auto industry contraction and falling revenue. More than 36 percent of its residents are below the poverty line, according to the Census Bureau. {4}
            
            “The city was once one of the most populated in the United States. But it lost 25 percent of its residents between 2000 and 2010, the fastest decline for any municipality with more than 100,000 residents besides New Orleans.” {5}
            
            These are just a few of the facts having an impact on Detroit. Toss in complications from powerful unions and an aging infrastructure and the financial situation worsens. A glib explanation of a knotty problem contributes very little to the discussion. I would prefer to read concise and rational interpretations of events. Wouldn’t you?
            
            I hope you had a good evening, RG, and you also get to enjoy the approaching weekend.
            
            {1} http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/18/news/ec … htm?iid=EL
            {2} ibid.
            {3} http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/04/busin … index.html
            {4} http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45798809/ns … -takeover/
            {5} ibid

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               Shanna11posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Could you please like write my research papers for me? Or at the very least collect the research for me? I swear, you put more time and effort into your Hubpages forum posts than I have ever put into a college paper.....

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                  Quilligrapherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Hi Shanna. Of course I would be happy to help you research.
                  
                  Thanks for commenting on my posts. When expressing facts, I prefer to make my remarks “vast” rather than “half-vast.”
                  

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               Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Detroit's problems are due to Detroit leadership which just coincidentally are democrats. Actually not so coincidentally, seems to be a pattern with democrat controlled anything.
               
               BTW, its not spin that the councilwoman expects a payoff, its what she said!!

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         GA Andersonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         It would seem obvious that Detroit is ...desperately strapped, struggling, and looking for help..., and your presentation of the possible reasons why, (further down the thread), is probably accurate, but...
         
         Simply addressing the content of the story cited, I find it difficult to oppose the OP's contention that this is illustrative of an "entitlement" mentality.
         
         Regardless of party affiliation, personal bias, or contextual intent, the councilwoman's statement very obviously indicates a sense of entitlement. She even says so in her own words... "... quid pro quo..."
         
         You portray this as a city searching for help, as any city would, and I agree - any city in a similar situation must obviously seek any source of assistance available.
         
         But I do not believe even that justification alters the perception that this councilwomen is expressing as sense of entitlement related to their support of the president's reelection bid.
         
         Of course, she could just be one voice among many - every group has them - but she is an elected representative, so does she represent the sense of the folks that elected her?
         
         And more to the point - does she represent the sense of the council?
         
         Detroit's problems, and their actions to address them are a much larger issue - one I am not addressing here, but I do think this issue, as presented by the OP, is as the headline purports.
         
         GA

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            Quilligrapherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Howdy, GA.
            
            On this we both agree.
            

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               GA Andersonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               tsk. tsk. you are getting off easy. As polarizing as this discussion could be, were I a partisan - I must allow your cherry-picked agreement.
               
               Unfortunately, (for me, as I enjoy a spirited debate), this subject appears to be a matter of semantics and nuance - and as such, could continue ad infinitum as a series of "yes, but..." exchanges.
               
               relying solely on the context of the OP's original source, ie. the councilwoman's "quid pro quo" statement - I do see it as a we're entitled because we supported you mindset.
               
               but... can that be carried through to fit into the "entitlement mentality" conversations, (as implied by the OP's thread title), related to government financial support in lieu of self-effort - of that I'm unsure.
               
               So, I will just leave things where they stand.
               
               But, don't let your guard down - I'll be watching
               
               GA

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                  Quilligrapherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Hi again, GA.
                  
                  We also agree that the topic is subjective. You did well articulating your opinions in this thread and I do not disagree with any facts you stated.
                  
                  Yes, I do cherry-pick my topics. If my facts are inaccurate, I expect to be corrected in a verifiable way. When I express my own opinions, I am more interested in reading why, rather than what, others think. Usually, my only objective is to get the facts straight. How others use the facts to reach their opinions does not inspire me.
                  
                  I thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. I also intend to follow your advice about keeping up my “guard”, GA, but do not be surprised if you find yourself shadow boxing.
                  

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      rhamsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I think this is no different than any other dumba## politician trying to cash in on some trumped up air of entitlement that makes them think by doing their job they should reap more reward than others. I look at the Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich in the same light. Because he was given an opportunity to serve his own interest over others in his constituency he felt he was entitled to receive something more in return.

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      Jillian Barclayposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Chris Christie has also asked for money from the federal government for costs related to Sandy, and he went straight to the President. $36.8 Billion so far---
      http://articles.philly.com/2012-11-30/n … eral-funds
      Is this also part of the entitlement mentality that you so desperately detest?
      
      You think that everyone should stand alone regardless of what happens in their lives?

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         Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         No it's not.
         The councilwoman clearly states that she feels Detroit and Michigan are one of the big reasons he was re-elected and they deserve a payoff.

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            Jillian Barclayposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I get it! So, it comes down to the manner in which you ask for "bailouts"...that determines whether it is indicative of entitlement mentality or not. Good thing you made that point. I am going to suggest to the Detroit councilwoman that she contact Frank Luntz for a "word art" consultation prior to requesting her Congress reps to advocate for help for Detroit.
            
            It's all in the wording- thank you!

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            Quilligrapherposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Hi Ms. Fae. How are you today?
            
            There are reasons why I question the spin being placed on this particular video.
            
            The first is that the title itself is intentionally misleading: “Detroit councilwoman to Obama,” it reads. Typical for Fox News, the councilwoman was not addressing the President at all. She was speaking to the city council, urging them to take action. I do not hear her claiming the city was “entitled” to anything just because it supported the President in November. I do hear her trying to spur the council’s leadership to seek federal assistance when she ended her remarks with, “Of course, not just that, but why not?" Why not turn to Washington for help?
            
            Secondly, my interpretation of Ms. Watson’s 50-second sound bite, after it has been taken out of context, is that she does not represent an “entitlement mentality” nor is she seeking something for nothing! Furthermore, I do not spin my interpretation to publicly declare that any interpretation that differs from mine is “BS” as found in the OP statement.
            
            Finally, it is quite reasonable for Detroit to hope for some assistance from Washington without it having an “entitlement mentality.” The same video clip states, “The federal government has bailed out cities in the past, however. In 1975, President Gerald Ford extended more than $2 billion in credit to New York City to help it avoid a financial collapse.” {1} President Ford (R) co-operated with NY Governor Hugh Carey (D) to extend more than $9B in federal guarantees and loans over eleven years. Every obligation was repaid in full with interest.
            
            The spin being applied to this sound bite fails to prove an entitlement mentality exists in our nation. The spin fails to prove an entitlement mentality exists in the Detroit city council. In fact, the spin even fails to prove an entitlement mentality exists in councilwoman Watson. In the end, the spin just fails.
            
            {1}
            http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/20264 … support-us

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         Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         You don't know the difference between Christie asking for help for New Jersey with hat in hand and a woman who said we gave you this county and we expect something in return? No sense in continuing in this thread.

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            Jillian Barclayposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            By all means, do not continue- You are the one who doesn't get it! Republicans, for years, have brought home the "bacon", to their loyal voters, from the federal government, every single time they were elected to office. Dems have done the same. It has always been quid pro quo, Mr. Repairguy- That is the dirty nature of politics. Whoever wins, wins the spoils! To suggest or pretend that just one side does this is naive at best, stupid at worst. The Detroit councilwoman just cut through the BS and said it straight, as opposed to being politically correct in her speech.

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               Repairguy47posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Still don't know the difference I see, eh.

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            Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            It's amazing. Apparently it is felt she had more right than Christie did.

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      mdavis1984posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It's obvious supporters expect payoffs...the problem is, politicians are eloquent liars and they design every phrase to be extensively convoluted. Political jargon intends on leading people to believe that their best interests are in mind. This one's big enough, hit the news, they'll get paid one way or another.

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