Are you ready to be taxed fined or jailed?

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politicsdayleeposted 14 years ago
well congress has given the people of the United states more burden with this bill they they pass illegally. who is going to protect us from the democratic party? well don't lose hope maybe
the supreme court will deem it illegal.
The constitution says, government can not pass any law that forces the people to buy a product.
does that make this law null and void?
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know, I'm really glad you brought this up.
  Because I think not everyone is seeing the big picture here. It will never pass the Supreme Court. Which for me is too bad. See, I'm one of those people who would benefit from this plan. I need it. However, I've never gotten too excited about it, because I know it will never come to full admission. Or at least this is what I think. So instead of bickering about, lets see how this all plays out. You know. It will never come to pass. The conservative judges will not allow it. They won't.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you have car insurance? How about a fishing liscense...
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  srwnsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good point Mikel many people claimed that law would never pass.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, but I have always had car insurance. Always, before it was required or was not required. So that angle does not work for me. I pay cash for my cars. I cannot afford for someone with no insurance or shitty insurance to hit me. So I have always protected my own. I buy insurance for that reason. Always have, always will. You know that is what insurance was originally for? Now whether it is limited liability or full coverage depends on which of my 3 cars I drive; the BMW, the Audi or the Honda. Not what somebody else tells me.
  
  I also have health care insurance. I pay over 6,000.00 a year in health insurance. And that is on a 10,000 deductible, no prescription meds. With my history- that is the best I can do.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The bill apparently won't have a direct effect on you.
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  neither of which is mandated that it has to be purchased by someone who doesnt drive or fish
  
  terrible argument
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not a terrible argument thank you. I rather appreciated where Mikel G Roberts was coming from. Who do you think subsides those who do drive and fish without insurance or a license?
  
  The taxpayers. Just filing that ticket cost tax payers money. So Mikel made a good argument. Sorry you could not see the whole picture.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is exactly the same ...people that are either dead or not living in the U.S. don't have to buy health insurance...You can always opt out by moving to another country.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who me?
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well for your information- dead people do buy insurance. Then it goes to probate court, and again it costs tax payer dollars.
  
  Listen I'm not bitching about the system. It is what it is. So I'll stay here thank you very much.
  
  All I'm saying is that the Supreme court will not allow this thing to pass. As I mentioned earlier, I said that is what I think. So there you go.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol... no his example was opting out of mandatory gov't fees by not doing the things like driving and fishing, I was showing him that we have the same option with the new health care forced payments.
  
  Don't drive and you don't have to buy car insurance.
  Don't live (here) and you don't have to buy health insurance.
  
  same thing. Exactly the same thing.
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  When the govt orders you to buy a car and your STATE (who regulates auto insurance) has mandatory insurance laws.
  
  Then it would be the same thing.
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you are laughable
  
  people who dont drive dont have to buy insurance
  
  people who are not fishing dont have to have a fishing license
  
  in order for me to be a law abiding citizen i must purchase health care
  
  leaving my country of origin to those who use license and auto insurance as an argument to government mandated health insurance is not an option
  
  i will stay and help my country through these idiotic times
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  creepy is right
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  lcschmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Plenty of people do NOT have car insurance because they live in big cities and don't drive. You are not mandated to BUY a car or a house by the government - big difference!
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  uh yes actually you are, unless you don't drive or own a house.
  
  which is why hours ago we had this discussion...maybe you should have read the thread....
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How do you drive a house?
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If they don't have cars, they don't need car insurance. On the other hand everybody runs the risk of illness or injury, even the young kids who think they are invincible. If they don't have insurance the taxpayers pay for their treatment at emergency rooms. Or their parents pay.
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes we all get sick and die thats a drag .but while Im alive I would like to make my own choices and keep most of the money I earn ....maybe
  I guess I want my freedom .
  But thanks for your o-isam
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  Rochelle Frankposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You have a right to decline those-- even the car insurance only requires liability, if you choose to have a car.
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good point
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  kerrygposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The government has been requiring us to buy home and auto insurance for years.
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes I know gov. bureaucracy that's a problem. I agree health care needs to be fixed. I think tort reform. but they wipe that off the table? I guess tort reform is bad for lawyers and insurance company's. could be the reason they avoid issue of using tort reform.
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "The government has been requiring us to buy home and auto insurance for years."
  
  No they haven't.
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  WHERE does the constitution say you can't be required to buy a product?
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Oh is that how it works? You have to find what the Constitution says the government can't do? LOL. Check again.
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  Hokeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They already do. You have to buy license plates, insurance,etc... How about money period? That is a Government made consumer product that they make 95% profit on. It only cost 5 cents to make a dollar bill.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do we get to pick?
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol
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Justine76posted 14 years ago
wich law? sorry...
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "without due process of law"
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  Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that law seems ok? im in the wrong thread...
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  SimeyCposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Most states have a law where you have to buy a carbon monoxide detector....
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  there's a law in this bill that states you must buy health insurance, if you don't need it witch most young people don't. you have to pay it any how.
  if you don't pay the gov for your insurance you will be fined and or jailed!
  I'm not sure if the constitution allows that.
  Peace
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  Mighty Momposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What do you mean most young people don't need health insurance?
  God bless you if you ever have to go to the emergency room, break a bone, or get seriously ill and aren't covered.
  You would be in for one huge-ass shock!
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree health care needs to be fixed. I think tort reform. but they wipe that off the table? I guess tort reform is bad for lawyers and insurance company's. could be the reason they avoid issue of using tort reform.
  and I said most young people obviously if you are sky diving or motor cycle racing YES get ins!
  Peace
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The CBO examined tort reform. They found the financial benefit would be about one half of one percent of the cost of health care.
  
  Compare that to the 25% AVERAGE price increase last month in CA.
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Mighty Momposted 14 years ago
I'm sorry, you Tea Partiers and others who are so deathly afraid of this health care bill. It passed. And it IS legal.
And it will help millions of Americans.
Just like Medicare does.
Just like Medicaid does.

Kerry G raises an excellent point. The government has been mandating behavior and dictating consumer purchases all along.
Car insurance, business licenses, marriage licenses -- all dictated by the government.
And here's a fun example:
In the midst of the greatest recession since the 1930s, what were legislators concentrating on? Requiring children to wear helments when they SKI or SNOWBOARD. Yep. Now THERE's some sweeping legislation for you -- Conservatively I'd guess that what, maybe 5% of Americans actually ski or snowboard?

I was going to get into the government forcing women to purchase birth control so as to avoid unintended pregnancies which would lead to ... well, we all know where that leads.
Best to leave it alone.
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And it will help millions of Americans.
  Just like Medicare does.
  Just like Medicaid does.
  
  and it will be broke and mismanaged
  Just like Medicare is
  Just like Medicaid is
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Now nobody I think can deny that. However, this is the American Mantra. It's our motto creepy, and always will be. When you send in lawyers, to do an accountant's job- what do you expect? I expect the mass chaos which always comes from mismanaged banking. That is all we know.
  
  To think that any thing American law makers do, isn't going to cause mismanaged funding, is mind boggling to me.
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  thats why true conservatives and libertarians dont want law makers doing anything
  
  not that hard a concept is it
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It will save money over the next ten years according to the CBO estimate.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ralph, I look forward to talking to you about that in 10 years. Same time and same place, just 10 years from now?
  
  They can all say what they want. They being the CBO's, the BO's, the BM's, the who knows. Nothing is certain. So I'll save that argument for later. I've got 10 years.
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  good point creepy
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  west40posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well said mightymom!!
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Too bad the bill doesn't provide for mandatory sterilization of anyone attending a Tea Party.
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  west40posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I like the way you think!
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you like the way he thinks because like ralph you hate any opposition to your way of thinking
  
  you are why this country is divided
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes,.. exactly... all you have to do is agree with the fanatical right wing and youo will finally be united
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the fanatical right wing that wants liberty preserved
  
  that right wing
  
  cant go left i dont want to have to tell my neighbor how he should live
  
  that he HAS to have health care even if he doesnt want it
  
  just doesnt seem right
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  mega1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh, take a pill.
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  is that a government mandated pill
  
  will you hold me down against my will and force it down my throat
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  mega1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  no, I'll get somebody like Palin to throw a dead wolf fur over you and do it!
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  mega1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well, it is ok in this thread to be ridiculous, ain't it? shore it is, baby!
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  creepy what gives? The same can be said of you.
  
  What is with your style of debating? Do you lack the intelligence to participate in a forum such as this? No. So what gives?
  
  No one person is the reason for this country being divided. Its not her or anybody else's fault, but Congresses; for getting us from here to there in the first place.
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What about your creepy buddies?
  White pride advocates march in Jackson; one person arrested
  By Todd A. Heywood 3/22/10 3:37 PM Digg Tweet
  
  While most Michigan residents were gearing up for March Madness basketball or the historic U.S. House vote on health care reform on Sunday, Jackson residents were treated to the coming out party of a new white nationalist group.
  
  White Pride advocates march in Jackson
  
  White Pride advocates march in Jackson
  The new self-described National Socialist group — Battalion 14 Michigan — hosted a White Pride Worldwide march from Jackson’s Loomis Park to downtown Jackson. And the group managed to muster up 17 souls to march for white pride — leaving at least a dozen women and children back at the park.
  
  But those opposed to the white pride message severely outnumbered the B14 members. Jackson cops estimated the counter protest to number between 300 and 500 people, however, it was probably closer to 200. They followed Battalion 14 Michigan Commander Chris Simpson and his band of white pride advocates into the streets of Jackson — verbally taunting them, kicking them or stepping on their heels, and spitting on them. Simpson and another B14 member were dressed in all black, including stocking caps and masks.
  
  http://michiganmessenger.com/35972/whit … n-arrested
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  racist every where you look arent there
  
  white pride blah blah blah
  
  sorry ralph got the wrong cat
  
  im a lot darker than you a lot darker
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And a lot creepier, Son of TK.
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  thanks
  
  whose tk
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  they just dont get it creepy
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is it too late to add that sterilization clause to the reconcilliation bill that the Senate has to take up?
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nah. If you've got enough money or power to hold in front of their noses, there's plenty of Democratic Congressmen/women who'll get right on that for ya.
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ralf deeds shows contempt to people who disagree with him ,like pelosi and obama, his remarks proves that.
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  lcschmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  AGAIN - the government does NOT mandate you get married, buy a car, etc, etc and that IS the big difference that makes this so called law unconstitutional!
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  thats right
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Greek Oneposted 14 years ago
Well, if they throw you in jail, at least you'll have healthcare there... and you won't die just because you can't afford it
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol well thats just dandy!
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livewithrichardposted 14 years ago
I really don't think the Supreme Court is going to do much to help change this law. No the government can't make you purchase a product but they can make you pay taxes. Medicare and Social Security and everything else included in the FICA tax are just examples of how the Govt is going to get around most objections. Honestly, the only ones I see objecting to this are those that can afford health insurance but choose to spend their money on other luxuries, which they surly had the right to do until now. And also those individuals earning more than $250,000 per year are going to get hit with a higher tax rate.
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yep more taxes
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Ron Montgomeryposted 14 years ago
Yayyyy! We get to hear from the constitutional scholar wannabes all over again.

Do any of you wonder why your opinions are never verified by anyone qualified to do so?

Do you wonder why the Supreme Court always rules contrary to your "expert opinion"?

If you ever get a job, will it be in the field of constitutional law?
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the supreme court has not ruled contrary to my views
  
  laws are easy to understand as long as you can read
  
  the constitution is not a limit on what i can do but on what government can do
  
  the count is 38 states prepared to file suit on this issue that is quite a constitutionally significant number
  
  plus obama pissed off the supreme court may be time for a little payback
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes I thought the same thing
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In 50 years, most Americans will be proud that they live in a country that doesn't deny it's poorest citizens access to healthcare... the benefits and wisdom of what is happening now will be as clear the pubic hairs on that lie on top Clarence Thomas' diet coke can
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  so you mean it will all be a lie just like the fictitious pubic hair on the coke can
  
  jesus you guys are killing me
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you might find both hard to swallow...
  
  but don't worry, despite your income, you will be guaranteed access to a good ear, nose and throat specialist!
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  there is no guarantee of that
  
  point to the guarantee that says i will have good medical help
  
  show me where in the bill that says i can get an appointment the same day i call
  
  i get both of those now and pay a small amount for it
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  Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Creep, you are apparently a fan of the dumbest ever member of the Supreme Court.
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  a supreme court justice is dumb
  
  thats the most ridiculous statement i have ever seen you make
  
  and you have made some doozy's
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IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years ago
creepy is right. That is all very well true.
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mega1posted 14 years ago
another great example of propagandistic rabble rousing - who said anything about being jailed? and I doubt if the fines are going to hold up! and I think it's about time those fat cats ceased getting all their tax write-offs and actually have to pony up for a change! literally!
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i think its time those who feel entitled to free anything should get off their lazy asses and work for the stuff they want just like the rest of us
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  mega1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you are even more simplistic, by the minute (notice I did not use the R word) a very very small percentage of the population actually won't pay for medical care - so blow it out your- - - oh! is that offensive enough?
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  mega1posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and "creepy" doesn't begin to say it all . . .
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  will I hope I'm wrong .that's why i wrote or jailed?
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arthritickneeposted 14 years ago
Has anyone asked why you are being 'forced' to buy insurance.

Because your insurance companies don't like insuring the sick. In order to keep costs to a reasonable level you need everyone, or nearly everyone insured to balance the sick with the healthy.

20 years from now your role will have changed, you will have arthritis and a heart condition and you will be costing far more than you put in. You won't be complaining then as the healthy subsidize your costs.

Think of it as a savings plan.

Remember, every developed country successfully uses this system. Is there a chance it is not as terrible as you think or are you so committed to denying healthcare to the poor.
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  if the poor want health care work for it i do
  
  i dont care about the poor just as they dont care about me
  
  if they did care about me they wouldnt lay around waiting for their handout
  
  thats just the way it is
  
  and i dont care who doesnt like it
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Let me ask you…. are you in favor of your tax dollars going to military spending?
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  west40posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Deleted
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  not sure why you would take offense... it is a simple question
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  west40posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  sorry GreekOne that wasn't a comment for you - I was so frustrated with creepy that I mistakenly sent you that remark - sorry
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yeah.. i guessed as much
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you are not alone in working 80 hours a week
  
  you are not special in that regard and you have no right to health care
  
  pay for it as you do as most people in this country do
  
  if you cant do that obama has made it possible to stand with your hand out and have someone else pay for it
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you are paying taxes on that 80 hrs work, then the only tax payer paying that portion, would be yourself. A person who works eighty hours a week, is entitled to receive something for their tax dollars spent. If it is health care- so be it.
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  no one is entitled to anything
  
  why cant you seem to grasp that
  
  if she or anyone falls into the category as poor then they are ELIGIBLE to receive not entitled
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  .. or ENTITLED to die, of course
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  west40posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do pay for it right now but when things get tight that is what has to go, otherwise we don't eat - are you going to turn down medicare when you reach that age?
  
  Why so hateful?
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hateful
  
  angry that my government is trying to create a class of people who feel they are entitled to things they are not
  
  a group of people who will remain dependent on government for their needs
  
  im not hateful im angry that this country has allowed a government to govern against the will of the people
  
  trust me you are in a minority
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  west40posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  really, when over 50% of the country was in favor of health care reform - how am I in the minority? Judging from the reaction of hubbers in this post I would say you are the one in the minority.
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  those numbers are wrong provide me with your source
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  west40posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and your sources are from . . .?
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  here is a reputable pollster
  
  the only pollster who called the obama election exactly the way it turned out
  
  again a reputable pollster
  
  http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ … are_reform
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  west40posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Reputation
  
  TIME has described Rasmussen Reports as a "conservative-leaning polling group".[10] Democratic Party activists have pointed out that Scott Rasmussen was a paid consultant for the 2004 George W. Bush campaign.[11] According to Nate Silver's FiveThirtyEight.com, while there are no apparent records of Scott Rasmussen or Rasmussen Reports making contributions to political candidates and its public election polls are generally regarded as reliable, "some observers have questioned its issue-based polling, which frequently tends to elicit responses that are more conservative than those found on other national surveys."[12].
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Health Care Reform
  It’s Time to Decide, and 54% of Voters Oppose the Health Care Plan
  
  Yesterday from Rasmussen
  
  You must be using Obama math.
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Her point was made. Regardless of the numbers. Her point was made.
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  no it wasnt
  
  no it wasnt
  
  just cause you say youre right dont make it so
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  Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  80 hrs O-LAWD lol
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  absolutely
  
  but that spending will have to be cut to compensate for this unsustainable bill
  
  dont waste your time with arguments in favor of this bill it is an affront to our freedoms and if you cant see that then you are part of the problem
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What.. what hypocrisy...
  
  What right does the government have to tax me in order to build a billion dollar fighter plane? If the time comes when I have to defend myself.. I’ll take of that then and there.
  
  If you truly believe in individual freedom and are against the state taxing and acting on behalf of the common good, then why would you accept taxation for military purposes?
  
  In fact, it is NOT government intervention that you are against.. it is not the waste of TRILLIONS of dollars, is it? It is OK to tax and spend as long as it is for things YOU care about. You even said so yourself.. you don’t care if the poor live or die.
  
  You aren't a Libertarian.. you are a selective Socialist... so stop claiming that there is some ideological substance behind your ranting.. or else people might think you are a candidate for some free state-sponsored mental healthcare
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  have you read the constitution
  
  that little part where the federal government is charged with the defense and security of this country
  
  that part is why we are taxed
  
  you want to try a new argument
  
  that one was lame
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  how about the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
  
  Can't have any of those if you are dead because you can't afford healthcare, can you?
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  are you still here
  
  i would be embarrassed to keep going after your little tirade of ignorence
  
  good luck
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  excellent Creepy... come on the forums and rave like a lunitic... then attack others who call you out for the fool that you are..
  
  What you don't realize is that each dumb comment you make makes people who would otherwise be on the fence move to postions opposite to yours, because they don't want to be associated with the wack jobs of the world.
  
  keep it up buddy, you're doing your part in for healthcare in America!
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  right
  
  coming from the guy who doesnt seem to know what the constitution says about the defense of this country
  
  im the fool
  
  you should be embarrassed but yet you arent
  
  fine job
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh trust me...
  
  everytime i read one of your posts I'm embarassed
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  greek is compairing apples to oranges
  I'm in favor of a strong army
  and health care is a diffrent issue, in essance on a scale of 1-10
  strong military = 10
  health care = 2
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  arthritickneeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What a beautiful contribution to America.
  
  You must be so proud.
  
  You are the same type of person who looks to the Constitution to prevent a healthcare bill. I'm sure the fine gentlemen who wrote the Constitution had plenty of thoughts that started with "I don't care who..."
  
  Why the anger and fear???
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the anger is the class war your side started screw the wealthy blah blah blah
  
  i think you will find a brick wall between the classes now
  
  this job killing bill is just the beginning save your pennies if you can
  
  this is what you forced on those who have
  
  take your medicine its gonna get ugly
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Nelle Hoxieposted 14 years ago
I live in Massachusetts and should know the answer but I don't. Has the Mass. Plan been challenged, because it has a mandate? When you file your income tax, you have to have a number of an approved plan to insert into one of those little boxes. I think the major fines start this year. It's been in place since 2006

Just wondering because I haven't heard of any challenge.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
The best President since Johnson has now changed America for ever! What has he done? He has done what every other civilised nation in the world did many years ago and it has taken 100 years for someone with the good sense to put the health bill through the Senate, and as risky as that was, it got the right outcome.
I have the bill, and yes I have read it all. Welcome to this century America!

Obama has enabled the nation to recognise that the strength of a great country is in the morality it exhibits.

The health act will bring the rewards in social peace that America has never seen before, this is what happens when we care for those who need it, and allow the poor to have a better life for their families.
Being rich or poor for many is a cycle, so be happy if you have work and feel safe when you don't. If you get ill, you can go to the doctor now, not after it gets life threatening.

I am so proud of my American cousins, as I was when Obama became President. You will soon be out of Iraq, with some support from home and abroad it may even be possible for Obama to get out of Afghanistan. The stimulus package like ours is working despite it being a bit of a dogs dinner due to the required haste to implement them.
They are getting sorted out too!

Even if Obama is eaten at the next elections by the usual American extremists who try to destroy anything not based entirely on the mighty dollar, America is growing to be a truly great nation.
The wealth is as always in it's people, something the incumbent seems to understand well.

To those of you who hate Obama, I say you cook the books in every accusation made.
Fair go! He is not any of the ignorant titles he has been given. He is a decent, intelligent President, not a muslim, or the anti-christ! Geeze!

Bush and his cronies invaded a sovereign nation on false pretences and bullied the free world into what he called "the willing" based on a lie. A lie that cost two of those countries Prime Ministers their jobs. (Blair/Howard.

He then allowed other high officials in the government to profit from the war. This is what you left behind. Be thankful republican and democrat.
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  your first sentence disqualifies you from having any credible input into the affairs of a great nation
  
  johnson was a great president
  
  stick to kangaroo pudding and crocodile dundee a political brain you aint
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Way ta give earnest what-for!
  creepy, you're good.
  
  And totally crackin' me up!
  (while all the while saying some very sensible things).
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You don't like Australians either I see.
  
  Ignorant stereotyping is clear enough to me, and others here who actually know something about Australia or the rest of the world.
  
  Psychotically screaming about your government, the one you have a free vote to elect is indicative of your depth generally.
  
  You like many other haters don't know anything, you just run off at the lip.
  Nice to see you enjoyed that Brenda, it speaks volumes!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks earnest.
  Even a conservative like me's entitled to a good chuckle now and then in the middle of all the liberal crap around here (and in MY good ol' USA).
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Run off at the lip, get banned and change their profile name again.
  
  That's whatcha call "real" genius, here in America. NOT!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  easy pal dont be to hostile
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  earns I love ya like a fat kid loves chocolate, but I think obama is a terrible pres.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I love chocolate, and haven't got an ounce of fat on me.
  This President has achieved more real change than any other for some time, and if the crazy name calling extremists are seen for what they are, America will become great again under this Presidency.
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ok bro , like no one ever doged a pres. if you think that makes some one an extremists you are way too thin skin. hell look what the dems did to bush lol not that I think bush did everything right ... but I never was a blind follower.
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thisisoliposted 14 years ago
Okay I have just finished reading the actual bill that has been written and passed, and nowhere can I find anything about health insurance being mandatory.

Infact most of the benefits seem geared to protecting those who simply cannot get health insurance, ie. those who had pre-existing conditions.

It also seems pretty much geared to increasing competition between healthcare insurance providers, and looking at the drafts of the bill it appears that the republicans that have been fighting the bill have been the ones which have the most interests in insurance companie.

Please, find where it says people have to buy healthcare insurance, because I cannot see it anywhere in the proposal. It seems more geared to making health insurance a better deal, thats all.
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  thisisoli I hope you are right but you can hide a lot in 2800! pages of legal jargon.
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  thisisoliposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Most of it is fiscal jargon not legal, the interesting thing is that it should leave people better off, since the new rules should increase competition, it should lower health insurance prices, which can only be a good thing because you guys get completely ripped on Health insurance (I'm looking at spending between 5x and 10x more on health insurance than I would have to pay in the UK when I move to America, this works because the insurance companies really do have to compete with a free system here, ensuring prices stay low and competitive.
  
  As a user of national health care I can safely say that I am glad I live in a country where I could go and get a hemorrhoidectomy without having to worry about the cost, because if I had had to do that, I probably would have just sat and suffered with it until it became a serious problem.
  
  Likewise, there are countless small ailments that can make life miserable, but are not essential for treatment, not to mention lots of small signs which should be checked for things such as cancer, but many people avoid due to the cost.
  
  I am not saying national health care is perfect, I am just saying that there are somethings I don't think people should need to worry about the cost of. If any of my loved ones where in pain, I wouldn't want to have to consider treatment on a cost/pain analysis, I would want them to feel better again.
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  Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think your comments would be echoed by the majority of people, (like me) who live in countries where there is some form of national healthcare. They are not perfect systems, but they are far better off than the alternatives.
  
  I would also bet that in most countries where national healthcare is a reality today, similar arguments were made to the ones on this forum.. and time has proven how ridiculous most of them were.
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  SparklingJewelposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I just heard it on NPR today...mandatory health insurance starts in 2014 or there abouts...there are only a few things that start within the next year...
  but gearing up for the changes starts today in the minds of the people...and for many of us it won't start because we have an individual concept of liberty that cannot be ignored...no one forces me to do what i have no need to do, it is unAmerican. I am fifty years old, given birth to four children and raised them all without healthcare insurance...we didn't need it because we took good care of ourselves (after learning some hard lessons )
  
  I would rather donate to charities that provide for people in accountable and responsible ways,and even some of those are as bad as the government in how they handle their "books".
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I could not have said it better my self! you just described my life to a T.
  thanks Sparkling jewel
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And if you had been injured and disabled during those years?
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IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years ago
im a lot darker than you a lot darker

I think their might be some confusion with the author of this sentence.

American education at its finest.
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  creepyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what confusion do you mean
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Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago
Am I "ready to be taxed, fined, or jailed", you say?

What I'm ready to do is tell all of Congress and the White House where to stick their tyranny.
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thisisoliposted 14 years ago
Ahh okay, I have found the bit which talks of mandatory healthcare insurance on reuters. However it does also mention that this is not absolute coverage, there are exceptions, and for those people earning less than 4x the poverty level you will be given 'credits' to help with payment.

Will be interesting to see how it pans out, will also be interesting to see if I will qualify for the credits being a non-citizen.
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IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years ago
Whatever.
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foreignpressposted 14 years ago
This health bill does require mandatory participation. Regardless, I can't afford it so I've hidden all my money and I'm preparing for permanent incarceration.
However, this health bill raises a serious Constitutional crisis. This is more about seizing power (to the Executive branch) and limiting rights than about health care. At least 38 states will fight it. This is socialistic madness.
The next phase of this insanity is to give illegals amnesty. How many remains to be seen. It could be 10 million or 38 million. (Much depends on how fast illegals can get here.)
The third and final phase is the North American Union.
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes we have to get the dems out quick!
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lcschmaposted 14 years ago
Folks, we're really all on the same side here! We are Americans! Land of the FREE and home of the Brave. We all believe people need healthcare. But it is this bill that is wrong and one-sided, with the majority of the people in this country against it. It needs to be fair and balanced with input from all - this was not the case here. We need to stop bashing each other and see how we can work to make sure a better law is passed!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like you really think we have a snowball's chance in hell of politically fighting the tyannical leadership?!
  It's gone so far that it needs legal prosecution.
  And no....I don't think we ARE all on the same side....
  But hey if you have any good ideas, let's hear 'em.
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  good point Brenda
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  foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Stop bashing each other!?? You're mad! What else is HubPages good for?
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  lcschmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL!!! Yes you are right about that! Cheers!
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
I love the USA, especially the people. I love Australia more. We have much more freedom than even America has.

Like America we too have great universities that produce leaders in all the sciences free top class health care, which has been around for 30 years) and a multi-cultural society that is rich.
Australia also has a very strong economy, no longer based only on primary products, but balanced across a broad range of GDP production such as manufacturing, High tech medicine etc etc.
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  foreignpressposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Aha! But you DO NOT have tyrannical, power hungry leaders in Australia whose only ambition is to slowly dismantle your country's constitution.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are ya sure? I had a whole list of them around here somewhere!
  How about the new opposition leader for a start. The mad monk as he was known throughout the Keating years.
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  lcschmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Amen to that!
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  Sab Ohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  " We have much more freedom than even America has."
  
  How so?
  
  "Like America we too have great universities"
  
  But not as great.
  
  "Australia also has a very strong economy"
  
  But not as strong.
  
  As far as I can tell, Australia is a great nation - as far as it goes.
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Christeneposted 14 years ago
Here is the link to the bill.
http://docs.house.gov/rules/hr4872/111_ … ported.pdf

"jail" Found on 0 pages

"mandatory" Found on 1 page

...about a website needing to provide information on training and educational opportunities including mandatory costs.

People need to relax. LOL

This panic reminds me of when FOX told people that in Massachusetts the Swine Flu vaccine was mandatory, and those who didn't get it willingly would have police at our doors with needles in hand. oy ve
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I hope you are right ...I just cant belive anything anyone in washington says. they have lied so much I dont belive a word they say
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Doug Hughesposted 14 years ago
The bill does require participartion in 2014. There is a fine of $600 if you don't purchase health insurance.

There is no jail time.

On the subject of the mandate. True, you only have to buy car insurance if you have a car. The idea is that anyone on the public roads is an economic risk to himself and others who use the public system. This reasoning has been deemed valid, even by wingnuts.

You only have to buy health issurance if you are living. Because anyone not dead is a a candidate for illness, accident or disease. As a society, we will care for these people but those people have an obligation to society not to be an economic burden to the system.

Case in point - my daughter was healthy as an 18 year-old can be when I got a call from the police that she was in the ER with an injury. Two separate operations were nescessary to save heer life. She required extensive PT to learn to walk, talk and feed herself. The only people who don't need insurance are dead people.

I have no doubt that the Supreme Court will hear arguments and I offer no prediction except that it will be a close decision.
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  lcschmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh really? And what pray tell do you think happens when you don't pay the fine? The door is open for incarceration, so what if it doesn't say it, it is a federal law and this opens you up for disobeying to be incarcerated!
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  Doug Hughesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do hear what you are saying -
  but what you are saying is not in the law.
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  Ohmaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you do not pay fines in this country sooner or later you will end up in jail. That is a fact of life and applies to everything from parking fines to Taxes. Just because the Bill does not say that is what will happen is no reason to believe that it will not.
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yep thats what I figured
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  how can you enforce a law with out jail time?
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Faybe Bayposted 14 years ago
I just found out the Equal Rights Amendment never passed, and you guys are worried?

http://www.equalrightsamendment.org/
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  what?
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Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago
Wow.
politicsdaylee, I caught that post of Faybe Bay's too.....

I'm wondering how that Amendment proposal slipped through the cracks all this time....
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  man that is crazy
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ralwusposted 14 years ago
Well they got away with instituting income tax and many other things. This will stick as well. they can jail me, then my healthcare will be taken care of, my food, sleeping quarters and I will not be paying taxes either.
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes its win win for them, they get tax dollars to bulid and maintain prisons
  while filling the jails with the poor.
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logic,commonsenseposted 14 years ago
I'm ready to vote all the bastards out!
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yea I think I'm gonna have to vote against anyone who supported this bill.
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habeeposted 14 years ago
I don't think the SCOTUS will ever weigh in on this. What I'm worried about is all the anger and violence - martial law could be established.
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jjmylesposted 14 years ago
Read this and then think about these bozos handling such a big chunk of the economy as health care!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 … 90-of-gdp/

"President Obama's fiscal 2011 budget will generate nearly $10 trillion in cumulative budget deficits over the next 10 years, $1.2 trillion more than the administration projected, and raise the federal debt to 90 percent of the nation's economic output by 2020, the Congressional Budget Office reported Thursday."
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  politicsdayleeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yes I agree they dont have a clue
  reply report

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