Jesus god-the-father: a fallacy of Catholics Protestants

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   paarsurreyposted 12 years ago

   Catholics Protestants think Jesus was god; rather as some say he was "god-the-father"; then the Christians say that Mary was begotten by god-the-father.
   
   It is a wrong concept; because that would makes Jesus , I take refuge with the Creator God, husband of Mary.
   
   I don't think it is a correct concept that Jesus ever believed.
   
   When the Catholics Protestants  say "Yashua was God the Father Himself manifest in the flesh"; what exactly they mean.
   
   I want to understand.

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      No, you don't. You just want to continue your onslaught of other religions while propagating the virtues of your religion.
      
      You must also believe we're really stupid.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Mary wasn't anybody's wife except Joseph's.
      God was not Mary's husband.  Jesus was not Mary's husband.
      God has no literal wife.
      
      Jesus was a manifestation of God the Father.
      Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ARE God;  they are One, with distinct manifestations and purposes but totally inseparable.

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         paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         That makes Jesus a messenger prophet of the Creator God; every messenger prophet manifests the attributes of the Creator God; nothing different from others.

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      couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      paars - I would explain it like this:  The Supreme One is able to project Himself in a way that is visible to humans so we can understand that it is possible to be perfect.  IMO, Jesus was a projection of the mind of God, sent to teach us how to live.  When we reach a point in our own life of perfection, this is Nirvana, Heaven, when we will have the same power Jesus had.

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         paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         That is with every prophet messenger of the Creator God; they were perfect human beings who achieved attributes of the Creator God as one mortal can;  this way they became in image of the Creator God; nothing special with human Jesus.

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            couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Exactly - at least in theory.  The special part is that he did it - we have not.  So if there is one person who excels, he is special in that regard.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      paarsurrey: The truth, the fact is you do not want to understand. You simply wish to attack other people who do not believe as you believe.
      
      There is ( 1 )one God, but within this one there is 3 seperate persona known as God the Father, (Jesus) who is God, the "Son of God" and then there is The Holy Spirit of God who dwells within all of mankind as ones spiritual teacher and guide, and helper.

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         paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         You are just one person; same way Trinity is mentioning 3 persons not one person.

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            Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Have you ever heard of people having "Multiple Personality Disorder" where by one person has many different personalities inside that can be manifested?

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               MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Are you saying that Jesus had multiple personality disorder? That's awesome.

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                  Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Melissa: No! not at all am I saying this. I was merely trying to draw a comparison to the "Triune God" of Christianity using this disorder as an illustration in order to better explain how one could view a "Triune God". As you know Christianity believes that there is "ONE GOD" but THREE IDENTITIES in this "ONE GOD" The Father The Son and The Holy Spirit.

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                  Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Melissa I know you are smarter than that and you are merely joking around with such a comment.

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                     MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I was joking Dave I have a sarcasm addiction.

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               paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               You mean that Trinity is a case of personality disorder?
               
               The Creator God has created everything in systems and order which is exhibit everwhere in the Universe.
               
               Trinity and Multiple gods do create disorder and confusion; like not believing in the Creator God is only work of Doubt.

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                  Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  As usual, you twist the words and thoughts and ideas or others to try and make them look  stupid, but with me you look mre stupid because you try and twist things.

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   thooghunposted 12 years ago

   I'm not religious, but I have read the bible a few times. I'm sure a learned Christian could correct me, however the impression I got was:
   
   Jesus is neither man nor God. But a unity (the holy trinity) of three distinct natures, comprised of the father (God), the son (Jesus -- specifically the man) and the holy spirit.

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      couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That's pretty much the way I understand the concept.  Except it's God as Trinity.  I guess it really could go any which way if they are all the same being.  Father is mind, Son is heart, Spirit is soul just like we humans.

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   Arcjahadposted 12 years ago

   Trinity is a false doctrine our heavenly father is not the author of confusion the reason the trinity is confusing to some is because it is false , the messiah said he is the son of God not that he is God ,the Creator said that the messiah is my son not that he is me in the flesh , as a child growing up in a baptist church I always knew that when the grown ups said God died on the cross for us I always said they sounded stupid it's his son not him , children alway know spiritual truth

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      couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It's not confusing to me at all so I must be more enlightened than the 'some'.  The trinity is not doctrine at all, it's a concept created to allow man to understand the 3 aspects of life - mind, flesh/heart, spirit/soul/energy force.  There's nothing unclear about this.  All ascetics have learned this.  IMO, the habitual thought patterns of humans is what stands in the way of the genuine impressions of the One. 
      
      Jesus was also called the Son of Man, among other names.  He forgave the sins of those who had faith in his power.  Who can forgive sins but God only?  Mark 2:5-12 "Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee, or to say Arise and take up thy bed and walk?  But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins."  etc.  If you believe in the Christian doctrine, this clearly says Jesus is God as Man.

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      paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      - created by clever Paul and the sinful writers of gospels; trinity is a false doctrine I agree with you.

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         Greek Oneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         sinful?
         
         Didn't you say they were misguided just the other day?
         
         Which one were they?

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            paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            A misguided is a sinful person; it is the same thing in other words.

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         Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         You dont think Muhamed was sinful then Paar?

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            paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            All human beings are born innocent unless they commit a sin when they get mature.
            
            All messenger prophets of the Creator God were innocent; their selection for this high office by the Creator God is a proof they were all innocent; they did not committ any sin; and if they did my mistake they asked forgivenss from Him; and He is most Merciful  and the Most-forgiver.
            
            Muhammad was messenger prophet; he was, therefore, innocent.

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         brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         clever paul and the sinful gospels
         
         I disagree with this statement utterly.
         
         trinity as false doctrine
         
         I agree. It does not need to be a doctrine. The perception that the bible places personification upon so very many items;
            Proverbs 1:20   Wisdom cries without; she utters her voice in the streets:
         does not always represent an actual personified entity.
         The Father - a unique and accurate way to express God in the New covenant - unprecedented and not normal considered in the OT.
         The Son - a unique expression to express relationship, certainly ties in with Father. A fitting expression since God produced the zygote.
         The Holy Spirit - a unique way to express Gods presence, omniscience and not to be confused with Gods "focal point - in heaven".

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   Emile Rposted 12 years ago

   What I got from the story was that he was Son of God and Son of Man while on earth; which meant his spirit was the spirit of God. His flesh was that of a human. It was the flesh that made him the Son, but his spirit was fully the Ancient of Days. God didn't breathe life into his spirit, because his spirit was the breathe itself.
   
   It might be difficult for you to understand. It's to be expected. The sinful and errant muslim scribes screwed a lot up when taking dictation from mohamed.

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      couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That's how I see it, too.  He became flesh so we could know that it is possible to be as he was, perfect.  He showed us it's entirely possible, with enough faith, to walk on water, etc.  This is why ascetics train to be without. They can 'see' more clearly without all the distractions of civilization.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Anytime the Ancient of Days is mentioned, I get hugely Blessed;  LOVE that name for the great I AM.

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         couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I do, too.  I guess when we all think about it, hope is the human spirit for believers and non of any nationality or religion.  Because the word ancient invokes something we can imagine as whatever we want it to be and in the case of those who believe in afterlife, the hope and belief in all that is good lays with the grandness of the Ancient of Days.

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That's about the same as I see it. The son is an analogy of the fact that He came from Heaven to Earth (in the flesh) whilst simultaneously remaining in Heaven in spirit because He is omnipresent.
      
      This is a stumbling block for the Muslim because they believe we think God had an actual son as humans do, which Muhamed says is impossible. They can't understand the concept of God coming to Earth in the flesh.

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      paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That is a sinful rhetoric of the Church; Jesus never believed in it.

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         couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I think it's important to remember that much of the old language was literal.  When I talk to myself, I refer to the ruler of myself as either brain or heart.  For me the soul or spirit is refreshed or set back by the decisions I make, goverened by my head or my heart.
         
         The analogy is simplistic but illustrates how Jesus talked to his 'father'.  He not only believed and knew the father was one with him, but he talked to him as though talking to himself.  Remember, when people talk to themselves, if someone is listening, the self talker may be misunderstood.

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            paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Jesus was a normal real person not a patient of Schizophrenia.

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            Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            couturepopcafe: If? Before we became human, we were "Spirit" is it not possible that when we talk to ourselves from brain or heart, we are talking to our "Spirit" self. Is it not possible that when Jesus talked to his "Father God" he actually talked to His Spirit and His spirit talked to God who is Spirit over all?

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               A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               So, you're saying there are billions and billions of spirits wandering around waiting for a human body to occupy?

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               paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Man has always been body and spirit; if one talks to one's own self often; that means one is phsycholigically ill.
               
               Jesus prayred to the Creator God, whom he referred as God-the-Father; Jesus was not the Creator God himself.

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Hmmm. I don't know. You asked a question, I just said what I got from the text. His use of the words I AM appear to contradict your statement.
         
         But, it's neither here nor there. People believe what they want, depending on what text they look to as scripture. You're a prime example of that.

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