Do You Know What You KNOW?

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   Chasukposted 12 years ago

   Do you believe that you know what you KNOW,  or do you believe that you only BELIEVE what you know?

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      aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      YES!

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         vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Nice.

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         Chasukposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         do you literally believe both simultaneously, or are you being facetious?

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            vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            dj made a funny Chasuk.
            
            

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I think Donald speaks for all of us:
      
      "There are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
      We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
      But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know."

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         Jane Bovaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         The latter I think- I only believe what I know. I believe that the sun will rise again tomorrow but I can't know that it will because it might not.
         
         Or have I missed the point of the question? I believed I new it but now I don't know..

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            vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            lol.. cute

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I really like this response. It's the unknown unknown I keep an eye out for.

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         Chasukposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I think that Rumsfeld was actually being quite clear when he said this. I've never understood the mockery.

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            Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I wasn't mocking him.

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               Chasukposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Thanks for the clarification. So many people do, that I wasn't sure. :-)

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            Jane Bovaryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Maybe it had something to do with the source and delivery. If a crusty philosophy professor had proclaimed it from the leather chair in his book-lined study, while gazing thoughtfully at the embers of his dying fire, people may have thought it a penetrating, insightful observation.

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               Chasukposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Rumsfeld presents a problem for me. I've listened to him speak, and I've read his memoir, and he is spooky smart. However, for various reasons too tangential to be shared here, I also believe that he is -- probably -- a truly evil man. To me, evil exists in intentional action. It isn't a metaphysical force, but it is expressed whenever a person knowingly performs, or causes to be performed, heinous acts. It might include failing to prevent a heinous act when it is within your power to do so.
               
               So, here is Rumsfeld, spooky smart, who, by his action or inaction, countenances evil. I don't like admiring a man and despising him simultaneously. It makes me insecure about my knowledge. Maybe Rumsfeld knows something that, if I knew, would transform what I perceive as evil into a necessary thing, maybe even a good thing. As I say, Rumsfeld presents a problem for me.
               
               Rumsfeld said this about his "known unknown" infamy:
               
               "At first glance, the logic may seem obscure. But behind the enigmatic language is a simple truth about knowledge: There are many things of which we are completely unaware—in fact, there are things of which we are so unaware, we don’t even know we are unaware of them."

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I prefer to understand rather than believe.

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         Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Grasshopper, when you believe, you will understand.

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            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            No, you don't.

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         Chasukposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I like that sentiment. It's pithy, deep, and I agree with it.
         
         Consider it borrowed.

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            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Anytime, thanks.

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               vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               

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         aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         That's a laugh.
         
         Oh, you mean FACTS, not people!
         
         (My mistake!)

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            vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            LOLOLOL..

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            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It's your strongest characteristic and what you're best at doing.

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               aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               You snipped the BEST part.
               
               Why? 'Cause it's true, that's why!

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      Trish_Mposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I think that I know what I know, when I say that I know it, but I do believe that I may be wrong about what I know, and, so, only believe that I know it.
      
      Who was it, who said that someone who knows, what he doesn't know, knows more than he thinks he knows? ~ Or words to that effect.

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         Chasukposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I'm not sure who said it, but I appreciate the sentiment.

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      klarawieckposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Since I don't have all the answers and I like to question everything, I'd say: I know what I've learned and experienced up to now, but what I know in the present is not a definite belief system.

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      Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Haha you have to think that your belief is true otherwise you wouldn't really believe it would you?

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         Chasukposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         The words "believe" is definitionally awkward.
         
         For example, the common definition of "believe" is, "accept x as true."
         
         What, then, does "I believe that x is true" actually mean? It parses as, "I accept that x is true is true."
         
         My question was intended to spark a discussion of the many interesting puzzles of epistemology.
         
         Perhaps unsurprisingly, it failed.

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   vector7posted 12 years ago

   Considering I'm willing to step in front of a loaded pistol aimed at another individual to protect them and considering it no loss to me due to trust in Christ if the trigger slips?
   
   [proof in pudding - have done it]
   
   Yes, I believe I know what I know.

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   Cagsilposted 12 years ago

   I hold very few beliefs and none of them have anything to do with what I know.

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      Chasukposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Elaborate, please.

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         Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I had thought I spoke quite clearly. What is it that you need elaborated?

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            Chasukposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You make a distinction between belief and knowledge. I request an elaboration of that distinction.

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               Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Your observation apparently is a bit messed up considering I said no such thing. I stated that I hold very few beliefs and those beliefs have nothing to do with what I know I know.

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                  Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Did you just get out of detention hall, Cags?    I figured it was about time you were paroled again!  I certainly hope you learned to respect your "betters"! 
                  
                                                         

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                     Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Hello to you too Randy. And, yeah I was paroled.

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                        Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I was going to check last night to see how much longer it was till you had your parole hearing, but I was accosted by some religionists and forgot.  Welcome back, There's still plenty of trouble in paradise! 
                        
                                                                         
                        >

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                  vector7posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  
                  
                  "I believe i believe / have beliefs"
                  
                  "and has nothing to do with / is seperate from / is distinct from [distinction]"
                  
                  "what I know I know / knowledge"
                  
                  
                  
                  Yeah, 'nothing to do with' doesn't mean there is a distinction at all.......... lol

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                     Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     

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                  Chasukposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Your memory is apparently a bit messed up, considering that you actually said, "I hold very few beliefs and none of them have anything to do with what I know."
                  
                  This clearly makes a distinction between belief and knowledge.
                  
                  I'll diagram it for you, so that you understand your own words:
                  
                  "few beliefs"
                  
                  --> "NONE of them [those 'few beliefs') have ANYTHING to do with what I know" <--
                  
                  "what I know"
                  
                  Do you see that separation? That's called a distinction, which you made here when you separated "belief" and "knowledge" according to criteria or criterion that I asked you to elaborate.
                  
                  If the reason that you made this distinction is too difficult for you to remember -- due to your faulty memory -- just let me know, and I'll understand.

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                     Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     WOW!
                     
                     Apparently, you seem to think that "what I know I know" as knowledge? If I read your words correctly. "What I know I know" isn't knowledge by itself. You made the distinction.
                     
                     My beliefs as they are few, DO NOT have anything to do with "what I know I know". I hold NO beliefs with regards to what I know I know.
                     
                     Knowing something isn't the same as knowledge. Knowledge is just one aspect of what the totality of everything accumulated to gain wisdom.
                     
                     Wisdom is truth in the truest form. Beliefs are thoughts/ideas which are believed true. Belief isn't necessarily true, especially if it's based on a lie to begin with. A belief becomes non-existent when that person no longer believes it to be true, but found truth about it through wisdom.
                     
                     I hope that explains.

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                        Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Don't try to use logic, facts, and reasoning with this guy, Cags.  He won't fall for those old tricks! 
                        
                                                                       

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   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   We just don't know what we don't know,  Ya Know?

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   Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago

   What I know, I know. What I don't know, I can learn, and if what I know is wrong, I'm always willing to modify what I know. Any other questions? You a cop, or are you writing a book?

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   lorlie6posted 12 years ago

   Gawd, I JUST started a thread almost exactly like this-my apologies, I didn't see this one before!  Well, maybe 2 will be extra-interesting and full of 'knowledge'!
   

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