I will pose this to both sides, with the understanding that this is a *just for fun* topic with some serious implications. As such, take it in the spirit it's presented and please don't use this as a platform to forward your own agendas. Okay?
It's heads ... we'll start by messing with the atheists ...
Okay, so for all of the atheists out there. Let's say tomorrow God pulls you up into heaven and says to you 'I would like you to tell people I truly exist, but the choice is yours. No harm will come of you if you tell no one.'
Now, considering the meeting is genuine, as is the invitation ... do you:
a) Tell everyone
b) Keep it a secret so people don't think you're crazy
And now ... the other side of the coin ... let's mess with the believers ...
So, you're pulled up into a spaceship and this alien tells you that it has visited the earth for thousands of years and that all of this time what you have considered to be god was actually just a being from another world. He then asks you to tell the people of Earth that there is no god and he is just another living being like them. Of course, he adds that the choice to do so is your.
Again, considering the meeting is genuine, as is the invitation ... do you:
a) Break everyone's heart with the news
b) Keep it a secret and let people believe what they will
There are *no* right or wrong answers here. This is all about looking at how far one would go to protect their own beliefs as well as the beliefs of others. Could you be the one that hops over and shatters everyone's beliefs, even if people might believe you then to be insane?
Again, the spirit of the exercise is to *pretend* this all happened, so to come into this and say 'that could never happen' would be foolish. We know it wouldn't. This is just a 'what if' to explore, and I think it could be a pretty darned good one!
As for me, I would be hard pressed to divulge what I had seen, for fear of how others would view me and for how it would mess with the beliefs of others. I might be tempted to say nothing ... but again ... it's a choice to do so.
Howsa bout you?
I know this is hypothetical, but which God, Krishna? Allah? Yahweh? Thor? Zeus? Crum?
well i'm not an 'atheist'. i don't believe in the Christian god, but i do believe in some sublime spiritual entity. anyway if you're referring to the classic Christian God in this scenario, of course i would absolutely tell everyone and fall to my knees in His presence.
a) Assuming he is not a dick like the xtians keep telling me about.
Edit - even if he is a dick actually. I am fond of telling the truth, despite lacking a belief in god which means I cannot have a moral compass.
"Let's say tomorrow God pulls you up into heaven and says to you 'I would like you to tell people I truly exist, but the choice is yours. No harm will come of you if you tell no one.'
Now, considering the meeting is genuine, as is the invitation ... do you:
a) Tell everyone
b) Keep it a secret so people don't think you're crazy"
If I knew that God exists, I would say so, but alas, you haven't given me a camcorder or anything, so I can't prove it to anybody. I'd continue as I have been: I'd say I believe in God, and keep trying to do as I imagine God would like for me to do, but since I can't prove He exists, there's not much point in arguing about it.
"So, you're pulled up into a spaceship and this alien tells you that it has visited the earth for thousands of years and that all of this time what you have considered to be god was actually just a being from another world. He then asks you to tell the people of Earth that there is no god and he is just another living being like them. Of course, he adds that the choice to do so is your.
Again, considering the meeting is genuine, as is the invitation ... do you:
a) Break everyone's heart with the news
b) Keep it a secret and let people believe what they will"
Again, I have no way to prove what I've discovered. I'd have to stop telling people that I believe in God, because His existence had just been disproven*, but as I have no proof, there would be no point in arguing about it. I'd still do my best to treat people as my idea of God, if He'd existed, would have wanted me to.
*This is assuming that the aliens would have been able to prove to my satisfaction that they were telling the truth; a negative is very difficult to prove.
As a believer I'd choose neither. I would not "break" the news to the people, nor would I "keep it a secret." The meeting may all be genuine and good but that proves nothing to the validity of what's been said.
At the same time no one should accept the gospel words at face value. The gospel is an action of inspired application and not a noun or dormant object. Through the application of the gospel is one more apt to gain a firm foundation of their truthfulness. Through the exercise of the gospel is one able to discern not only the reality of God but also His nature and purpose.
Scripture warns us of all types of falsehoods to come about in the last days. Aliens telling us of who God is, is one of them. If one looks upon and acts on the fruits of the gospel he/she will cultivate a firm foundation upon which to build. Not even the aliens would then be able to blow your house down.
Dear me. I bet Mormon joke books are the thinnest joke books on the planet. Although - everything you just said - LOL for all the wrong reasons.
Whatever you do - don't let the truth get in the way of your beliefs.
I don't know much about scripture warning of lying aliens, but I genuinely suggest you take yourself a little less seriously mate.
This was posted as a fun thread and you took it as yet another opportunity to show us how important you are. I never mentioned your faith - just that you seem to be lacking a sense of humor.
Are there any Mormon joke books?
I apologize if I misunderstood you. I basically look at the thread topic and initial post and if it asks a question that I wish to genuinely want to answer, I do so.
No, I don't consider myself important. At 5'3" and a big nose I hardly take myself seriously, but at least I can give California some shade - from Iowa!
No, I do not own any Mormon joke books but have heard enough Mormon jokes to fill the Library of Congress - a couple times over!
I mean no disrespect to you or anyone of Faith. Couldn't the truth be that God is an alien that planted us here, and goes back and forth in time to save a person he likes here and there; and causes a flood or an earthquake to kull the heard from time to time? How can God be a jealous God. How could God worry about sex and who's having it, if he's the Almighty God instead of and Advanced being with the same faults all other beings have.
Sorry if I insult you or anyone with my question, I'm just thinking and looking for information related to the topic. You seem to be a good person and a very smart man. I would like your opinion on my theory.
Is it possible that humans were planted on earth by a technically advanced race? ... OK, let's say it is ...
But all that does is move the question ... who made the aliens?
And if the alien did beam me up to his ship, how do I know he' telling the truth?
Maybe God is really God and satan is the alien, and he's lying to trick us into not believing in god?
As to the question in the OP, eh ... I might tell people what I experienced but I may or may not believe what the alien said.
I really wouldn't expect people to believe me anyway. So it wouldn't break that many hearts. I wrote a hub about my buddy Lonnie being raised from the dead. Plenty of people don't believe me (including some Christians I might add) ... I don't know why they would believe me about the alien.
Some would. Some wouldn't. It would not change a thing.
"Is it possible that humans were planted on earth by a technically advanced race? ... OK, let's say it is ...
But all that does is move the question ... who made the aliens?"
Sure, and at the same time,
Is it possible that humans were planted on earth by a god? ... OK, let's say it is ...
But all that does is move the question ... who made the god?
This is not an impertinent question, it's the logical response to those who consider intelligent design to be good science. If you find a watch in the desert, you assume the existence of a watchmaker. Sure. But who made the watchmaker?
The universe is so complicated, it could never have happened by chance; therefore, it had to have a creator. Okay. But logically, the creator of the universe is much more complicated than the universe, so who created the creator?
Or is it turtles all the way down?
God, by definition is the "First Cause" and if the Aliens are unmade then they are God, and it would simply change our understanding of the nature of God.
It would just be another revelation.
And your comment made basically the same point as my comment. "IF Aliens" or "God" beamed up an individual and radically changed what he/she believed about the nature of the universe, it would make no real difference to how the rest of the world believed.
"God, by definition is the "First Cause" "
So, suddenly we won't assume the existence of a watchmaker when we encounter something so complicated it couldn't have spontaneously appeared?
Sorry, that's bad logic. We can't just stop applying a rule when we get to a place where we feel like it. Either complex systems need a creator, and so does whatever it was that created the complex system, etc, ad infinitum, or complex systems don't necessarily need to have a creator.
I agree, however, that the revelation of the existence or nonexistence of God to an individual would probably not change a whole lot, unless said individual were especially charismatic, along the lines of a Moses or a Jesus or Gautama.
What I believe you missed in my point is the inherent complexity introduced in the word "God" ... It's admittedly Alexander's solution to the Gordian Knot but that doesn't make it wrong, bad logic or any less complicated. Alexander's solution required a completely different set of complications (i.e. the human body, the organ we refer to as the brain, psychosocial motivations etc.) from the outside, however, it appears an oversimplification.
"First Cause" simply assumes that at some point "There was a beginning and there was something there." It's an axiom not a conclusion and is therefore not bad logic. It is no more or no less a different set of initial conditions than you are wont to assume.
Which is fine. If we begin with different assumptions we will reach different conclusions. Since we cannot experimentally measure "the beginning" or lack-thereof, we will not and cannot know.
It is this lack of knowing that makes these types of discussions entertaining. Which is the only value I extract from them!
"It simply assumes that at some point "There was a beginning and there was something there." "
Oh, I think I see. You're starting not from the assumption that complex systems need something to create them, but rather from the assumption that there was a beginning point, perhaps with a creator, perhaps not?
This is interesting.
What makes you assume there was a beginning?
It is an axiom that I believe is self-evident. As to why I believe that ... you can speculate all day and have as good a guess as me.
As to why I think you believe this? I suspect it is because it fits with your pre-decided beliefs and if you didn't believe this then your beliefs would be proven invalid.
Ah, yes, but why did I pre-decide? It can go on and on and on...
You are, however, incorrect in your ever so subtle implication that it is because I do not continually challenge or question myself.
I was suggesting no such thing. I think it is fair to say that your beliefs will no doubt pass all challenges and questions to yourself with flying colors.................
Without a beginning, your religious beliefs go out the window. Ergo - it is "self evident" that there was a beginning.
In an overly simplistic manner I'm going to describe one of those "SCI FI " moment that I have thought about.
I ask the same thing that Mark asked. What makes us think that there has to be a beginning?
Remembering that there are an infinite possibilities of different dimensions of reality in-or-outside our universe.
This dimension would not have to have a point of reference as a beginning.
Imagine this as a rock being thrown into the lake. The waves move out in all directions. Imagine these waves as being the space time continuum. There may have once been a point of reference as having BEEN a beginning, it no longer exists because it has been consumed by the now that is moving in all directions.
The Beginning (rock/big bang) coming from outside of the realm of our understanding.
Not well explained ... as I said ... just a SCI FI moment
It is interesting. Several of your comments are close to my beliefs.
God did go through His own mortality on His own world. He endured trials, tribulations and temptations. He conquered sin and became victorious. Thus He learned and worthily obtained grace upon grace, precept upon precept until His station became assured as of the Gods (thus the word Eloheim - Gods many). He is an exalted and perfected man. He was as we are today. He does dwell on His perfected world as our world was near unto His.
We can discuss what is and is not possible all day long, but it gets right down to the application of the gospel standards and principles. That, in the end, is what will provide wisdom to the mind, precept upon precept, unto perfection and a brightness of hope.
On one hand, how do I know that a meeting with God is not some genuine figment of my imagination? On the other hand, even if I were to meet this hypothetical alien, how do I know the alien is stating fact rather than just giving an opinion?
I will tell the truth that an alien spoke to me LOL, just an alien,
Hi YOSHI, I miss you here at HP
Doesn't matter if I were a believer or not before I was pulled up into heaven and God told me to do anything at all. I would do what he asked. Get nude and stand on my head on mainstreet if that is what he asked me to do.
As a believer and an alien convinced me that what everyone thought was a God was just one of those other aliens ???
There would be no compulshion to do either.
I'd probably tell those that wanted to listen.
Wouldn't bother me at all that others didn't want to know.
God versus aliens? Whatever you say some people will say you are an idiot anyway. There is no equal truth for everybody. Just try it.
'Okay, so for all of the atheists out there. Let's say tomorrow God pulls you up into heaven and says to you 'I would like you to tell people I truly exist, but the choice is yours. No harm will come of you if you tell no one.'
Even if this happens, I wouldn't believe it's God. I would think he's a crazy specimen of other galaxy LOL
So I wouldn't tell anyone.
I pretty much experienced this problem. It was terrifying and by some mental process, I forgot about it for several months. When I remembered it, I talked about it because I was trying to figure out whether I believed it or not. So, I would have to say that I would spend a lot of time trying to decide whether I was sane, dreaming or imagining it.
When I decided I believed I was sane and had a real experience, I was not eager to admit my belief. I know that when it comes to God or aliens, people are just decide for themselves and I don't consider myself as being a good spokesman or an convincing speaker. But I do act as though I believe what I believe and if someone asks me, then I'll tell them.
In fact, linguistically God is an alien, as are angels.
The Hebrew word for "sacred" has a connotation of "apart" or "other" ..
"Alien" same thing "not one of us"
Extra-dimensional or Extra-terrestrial?
Most of us, believe "something" is out there and it's not us. Beyond that, it's all speculation and conclusion. Some good. Some not.
As a computer programmer I have created some perfectly mathematically logical solutions that have been completely wrong. Logic is a useful tool, but not a guarantee of correctness.
In correctness, there are no guarantees, in spite of the assurances of politicians, academicians or professional holy people.
i have some different take on this..faith always work ..it doesnot matter which diety one worships or even truth or falsehood of faith...guess faith induces confidence which enables humans to work on situations..i think i wont say truth even if alien wanted me to...
How Far Would You Go To Protect Your Beliefs?
Not nearly as far as I would go to protect my family!
To me beliefs are just like everything else in life, constantly changing. Change happens and is inevitable and I like to keep an open mind about things and explore different points of view.
I might believe very strongly in something right now, but feel very differently about it a few years from now.
My beliefs are already protected and secured in Quran. I just express my faith based on reason and Word of revelation and listen to others ; and extract truth from what they say. It is a very peaceful process.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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