jump to last post 1-13 of 13 discussions (75 posts)

The War On The Middle Class

  1. lady_love158 profile image61
    lady_love158posted 5 years ago

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/03/ … class.html

    It should be obvious to everyone now that the left is intent on destroying the middles class. Worse they do this while claiming their policies are to protect you! Well that kind of protection I don't need!

    1. bgamall profile image84
      bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Wrong. Both parties were involved. I write hubs on this continually. In fact, the Republicans are against the consumer protection and they want less regulation so the banksters can blow another housing bubble even faster than the Demcrats. But both parties were totally involved. Major players were:

      Gramm and Rubin, who lead the charge to repeal Glass-Steagall, Clinton, Bush, McCain (as Gramm's mentor having been in the S and L crisis up to his eyeballs),  Greenspan, Geithner, Paulson, Gramm's wife, who got derivatives labeled not gambling,

      1. tritrain profile image75
        tritrainposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Agreed.


        On all points.

    2. DTR0005 profile image85
      DTR0005posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      http://s1.hubimg.com/u/4816060_f248.jpg

    3. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      When the unions were destroyed, and politicians who ran for the left could not longer obtain donations from the unions, politicians on the left began to take their money from the corporate lobby..

      Corporations are destroying the middle class, and most of the middle class are letting them because they're living in debt and still managing...

      1. lady_love158 profile image61
        lady_love158posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Lol! Ridiculous! These are the same corporations that employ us pay our wages and benefits and rely on our labor for their profit! Yes they want to destroy us... makes perfect sense! Lol

        1. profile image0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Those corporations pay most people a rate that is not livable. They abuse staff, work them to death. The only people that earn livable wages are near the top. If you honestly believe otherwise, then you haven't looked into this very deeply. This is an international trend by the way and it is why the wealth has risen to the top.

          It has nothing to do with people at the top being more intelligent, more talented, etc.

          It has to do with underpaying labor more and more.

          1. lady_love158 profile image61
            lady_love158posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I don't know of a single person that's been worked to death! Wages are subject to market forces just like prices and are dependent on supply and demand. Real wages gave declined that is true but that has more to do with monetary policy than anything else. Yes the gap between corporate officers and workers has expanded but I wouldn't expect that to continue in this economic environment.

            1. John Holden profile image61
              John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No, wages are not subject to market forces, they are down to the whim of corporate management who see wage control as yet another tool.
              Why on earth do you imagine that the wage gap won't continue to get larger in this economic environment, if any thing it will speed up the widening!

              1. lady_love158 profile image61
                lady_love158posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                If business actually could determine wages why would they pay you anything? Why not just offer you food for your labor..  just enough calories to sustain you? The notion that business just decides what they're willing to pay and will pay no more is just ridiculous!  People in China get a new job every week because they are offered more. Where there is demand for labor wages rise even if the corporations would rather they didn't.
                I think the gap wont widen because profits will be under pressure. It will be harder to justify increases to the boards if sales and profits are declining. I think we're headed into a double dip recession.

                1. John Holden profile image61
                  John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  They don't pay you in food because it is illegal to, just another of the things to lay at the door of the trade unions, the abolition of payment by truck!

                  Do people in China really get a new job every week! I'm surprised that they ever get anything done, having to constantly retrain staff!

                  The pressure on profit will be eased by paying the workers less those allowing the gap to widen.

                2. profile image0
                  Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  When any organisation holds the degree of power that corporations do, they can pretty much dictate what they want done.

                  So people either work for pennies or they starve. It's not much of a choice.

                  You cannot compare China to America. America now has the same wage structure as any third world country. Have you ever looked at the official figures for those UNDERemployed - not the unemployed?

                  1. lady_love158 profile image61
                    lady_love158posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    There is high demand for labor in China and so there is a large turnover in the factories. People leave one job for another with a higher wage. The difference between China and the USA is the China economy is growing at double digits and in the USA it isn't growing much at all and maybe still shrinking. Low growth means low demand for labor means shrinking wages... in other words free market forces are at work. I don't get why you lefties can't see what is blantly obvious!

  2. Cagsil profile image59
    Cagsilposted 5 years ago

    You know LadyLove, it's pretty bad when you cannot see the damage done by your own side, much less beyond yourself.

    The War on the Middle Class? Is just distortion to keep citizens divided. And, you would know that, if you didn't have an agenda that matched your own political affiliations.

    You are just as guilty as your partners in crime, known as the republicans or the right, should I say. And, the scary thought is that YOU actually enjoy making a public spectacle of yourself.

    Just utterly ridiculous. roll

    1. bgamall profile image84
      bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      There is a war on the middle class, but unfortunately, the main players were banksters. Or they were wanna be banksters, like Phil Gramm, who got a cushy job with UBS, the Swiss bank that recruited Americans not to pay taxes. He got that job and was a friend of bubble blowing and the attack on mainstreet by ponzi loans originating with Basel 2, and off balance sheet banking in 1998. I have even written an ebook about it.

      1. Cagsil profile image59
        Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        If there is a war on the middle class and it's coming from the bankers, which are the wealthy class, then it would be completely stupid on their part.

        Destroying the middle class and making them part of the poverty class or of the homeless class would be completely ignorant.

        I get that you love to jump on the bankers, but please try to keep it rational and/or at least sane.

        1. bgamall profile image84
          bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Read my hubs. You don't get it. There was a huge transfer of wealth with the ponzi housing bubble to the top 1 percent. A massive transfer, in fact.

          They thought mainstreet would bounce back quicker, but they were only concerned about our new mercantilism, that of the financial class.

          They had visions,and still do, of controlling finance and credit throughout the world, even preying on the Chinese populace if they can.

          The 4 biggest banks are bigger now than before the bubble, in addition to the incredible jump in wealth of the top 1 percent.

          1. Cagsil profile image59
            Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I get it and don't actually need to read your hubs. roll

            However, the bankers can be subverted by helping the people, not just open their eyes, but be more responsible in their own actions. Thus, increasing their education and awareness of said problems.

            Presently, you're attempting to use "scare" tactics, which is no different than the politicians or bankers. Thus, YOU are not different, but are same.

            So please.....

            1. lady_love158 profile image61
              lady_love158posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Lol! At least Somone besides me can see through his crusade! What did you want the failed banks to do @bgamall, refuse the government money... or should I say tax payers money the government was giving away? Government policies led to the banks making bad loans.

              1. lovemychris profile image80
                lovemychrisposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Riiiiiight, it was gvt standing there telling the banks to scam people into sub-prime loans, even though they rightfully qualified for prime.


                Hey--a cop wasn't standing there telling me not to steal....so it's the cop's fault I stole!!

                1. Cagsil profile image59
                  Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Actually, there was cops(regulators) who turned a blind eye, so the money could be taken. wink

                  1. lovemychris profile image80
                    lovemychrisposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Very true!!!

                    And in 07, when Congress started putting the clamps on them-- omg, it was amazing the things that came out!!
                    It was like the flood-gates opened.

              2. bgamall profile image84
                bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                The banks had people in government making sure they got the money. You have been put to sleep by Faux News.

                No matter, you will see them screwing other borrowers in short order, as soon as they can figure out how to finish stealing property they don't even own the notes to in foreclosuregate.

            2. bgamall profile image84
              bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              No Cagsil, you don't get it. The banks deliberately pulled their underwriters because they just needed warm bodies, since they could take their loans and pawn them off as AAA when they weren't. They should be prosecuted under RICO laws which exist to prosecute fraud as a business model.

              Pulling underwriters, who had always been responsible to banks not wanting people to get too much house, was irresponsible and the banks should have been allowed to fail.

              In the 13th century, if banks failed, governments would hang the banksters. Now, they get bigger bonuses. There is something wrong with that picture, Cagsil.

              1. Cagsil profile image59
                Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                I do get it, but it is you who do not get me, but then again, that's okay. It's nothing I'm not used to by now.

                1. bgamall profile image84
                  bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  Actually I do get you. You think the 24 percent of the subprime loans made by ACORN/CRA caused the bubble. It jumpstarted the bubble, but by itself would not have sustained the bubble. The 76 percent of subprime and all the prime and jumbo and alt a and option arms were made by the private lenders, largely unregulated. The Fed, Geithner, who was Pres of the NY Fed, refused to regulate.

                  But that was according to the plan of Basel 2 in 1998, to introduce models that were not real. When Enron and Worldcom failed based upon those off balance sheet models, the banksters ignored that and implimented private mbs in late 2003, corresponding to Geithner's presidency of the most powerful private Fed bank, the NY Fed.

    2. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Cags, and you obviously don't read the figures that have been coming out INTERNATIONALLY for every country in the world for the past ten years.

  3. Ron Montgomery profile image59
    Ron Montgomeryposted 5 years ago

    http://www.wired.com/underwire/wp-content/gallery/zombie-madness/zombie-woman-760.jpg

    Braaaaaaaaaains...

    Hate Obama....

    Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaains...

    Hate Obama...

    Braaaaaaaaaaaaaains...

    Hate Obama...

    www.livingdeadthinker.edu

    1. bgamall profile image84
      bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The Republicans will not protect Americans from predatory bankers, and will allow them more freedom to scam than the Dems going forward.

    2. Susana S profile image92
      Susana Sposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Lol Ron lol

      Just one error though on your part. Each phrase! Should have! An exclamation! At the end!

      Brains.....!!

      Hate Obama.....!!

      Must Eat Obama brains.....!!

      1. PrettyPanther profile image84
        PrettyPantherposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        big_smile  Right on!!!!!!!!!

    3. tritrain profile image75
      tritrainposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      At first I thought that was a picture of a Troll.  Ha!

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image59
        Ron Montgomeryposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        no comment

  4. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 5 years ago

    There was a tape of Enron employees' laughing with each other about how they scammed poor seniors out of their money....
    I don't think these banksters give a rat's ass about what they are doing. Other wise, they wouldn't need regulating to get them to behave like decent human beings.
    Those who are decent are complicit by keeping silent.

    1. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      "Those who are decent are complicit by keeping silent."

      This has puzzled me for a while now. Why are so many remaining silent. I met a CPA when I first arrived in America. She had worked for about 10 major corporations in the USA. She said that every single one of them scammed people and that they had creative numbers in their accounting. She was often asked to be complicit in it and that is why she resigned...

  5. optimus grimlock profile image60
    optimus grimlockposted 5 years ago

    this left side right side stuff is bs! The government as a whole has detroyed the middle class. Its a sad thing that will huant this country for years to come! I'm on the f.u. side how about that!!!

    1. lady_love158 profile image61
      lady_love158posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I understand your anger and you're right both sides are guilty but now is the time to engage! You are not alone! We are going to return America to constitutional goverance and eliminate all those that stand in the way regardless of party! Do not cave in to the socialist democrats and their lies! They seek to divide us and rule over us!

      1. profile image0
        Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        And the GOP doesn't?

        The guilty party here is big business who are buying the politicians.

  6. vector7 profile image60
    vector7posted 5 years ago

    Speaking of banks, wonder how they convinced the government to hand them every last dime the government had control of in a "bailout" as if the banks had no money... For the good of the people? To give our tax money to banks? WOW.. There's a off the wall notion... Americans sure do think a lot huh?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

    1. dingdondingdon profile image61
      dingdondingdonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You realize that bankers and politicians come from the same parts of society, right? That wealthy minority all know each other pretty well.

    2. Cagsil profile image59
      Cagsilposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hey Vector, I would suggest you learn something with regards to money. roll

    3. bgamall profile image84
      bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It doesn't matter the party. The controlling element are the banksters.

  7. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 5 years ago

    And, IMO--Gramm was a big sleaze unmatched until now....Mike Pence!
    Sleaze city.

    1. bgamall profile image84
      bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Phil Gramm is a disgusting and vile individual. He knows what he did. He knows that mainstreet was screwed and told them to quit whining before the crash of the money markets in Sept, 2008.

    2. lovemychris profile image80
      lovemychrisposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      http://fuckconservatives.wordpress.com/ … t-title-x/

      Mike Pence lies about title X.

      He lies about a lot actually...

  8. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 5 years ago

    Geee- I wonder if it might have anything to do with the fact that companies left America FOR China! SO they could have cheaper labor, and lax safety standards?

    Race to the bottom lady, with only the ones at the top winning.

    1. lady_love158 profile image61
      lady_love158posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Suppose that's true what can be done? China is winning the competition for business but we don't have to let that happen! America has something to offer, freedom! If we can lower the costs of going business in America we can win business back. We can't lower wages and if we raise taxes we'll continue to chase business away. All that's left is government!  We have too much of it and it costs too much... that's where we can cut and save this country.

      1. bgamall profile image84
        bgamallposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        We would have freedom but the top elites are stealing the dream. You don't spend any time trying to speak out about the biggest thiefs. They are going to impoverish America's mainstream because they are only worried about saving their own hides by offering credit to Americans who are underpaid and overcharged.

        Did you know, Lady, that a trader said that Americans pay an additional 1.50 per gallon for gas just because of sheer speculation? It is churn, an easy money churn that is similar to the churn they set up with borrowers, only they trade back and forth with themselves, driving the price of oil up. Then those who take delivery of the oil pay to much and have to charge too much.

      2. profile image0
        Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        @Ladylove...

        "-America has something to offer, freedom!"

        Everything is relative... Yes, compared to China, America does have freedom. Compared to Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Europe, the UK, etc. um, really????

        1. lady_love158 profile image61
          lady_love158posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          Well yes... though the left is doing everything possible to change that. Take the ACLU the American Civil Liberties Union... the founder of that leftist organization is an avowed communist, their mission is to destroy the constitution and they have made strides in that direction.

          1. profile image0
            Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            @lady-love, coming from outside America, I find it very difficult to put labels of left and right on everything. There are many organisations that might be to the left or right of a particular position. That doesn't mean that they are left or right. That might mean that they are dead center. Where one is standing often defines the view.

            Personally, I find that extremes on both sides are destroying the country. But worse, big business is playing two sides against the middle.

            Sometimes, one needs to be outside a situation in order to see it. smile

            1. lady_love158 profile image61
              lady_love158posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Someone that professes their goal is to eliminate the state, private property and usher in communism is obviously leftist wouldn't you say?

              1. profile image0
                Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Okay Lady, we are on completely different pages. Who, exactly, wants to eliminate the state, private property and usher in communism? Who on earth are you talking about?

                1. lady_love158 profile image61
                  lady_love158posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  That was from the founder of the ACLU. This is the desire of the left in America.

                  1. profile image0
                    Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I just looked that up. The guy is dead, isn't he? Organisations change. I truly doubt that that is the agenda of the organisation.

                    Good night. I'm off to catch some sleep.

  9. lovemychris profile image80
    lovemychrisposted 5 years ago

    Well well well...
    Who'd a think it?:

    "According to documents first reported by ThinkProgress, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce began working with three military contractors — Berico, HB Gary, and Palantir — to come up with a proposal to discredit groups like ThinkProgress, the SEIU, StopTheChamber.com, MoveOn.org, and others. The tactics proposed included spying on families, using malware computer viruses to steal private information, using fake documents to embarrass liberals, and creating fake identities to infiltrate their targets."

    http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/24/ric … g-scandal/

    1. dingdondingdon profile image61
      dingdondingdonposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I remember HB Gary from the 4chan blunder he made. I'm surprised they didn't come across anything like this when they went through his emails though.

  10. classicalgeek profile image88
    classicalgeekposted 5 years ago

    *wonders why lady_love is posting on the forums (which doesn't pay) instead of writing hubs (which does pay).*

  11. Will Apse profile image90
    Will Apseposted 5 years ago

    Just in case someone is interested in a well researched piece with the evidence to back up it's claims.

    From the University of California, Santa Cruz:

    http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesameri … ealth.html

    1. lady_love158 profile image61
      lady_love158posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      It's quite long and contains a lot of data! I'm not sure what your point is though. Most of that stuff is intuitive. If you're rich you're going to have more power and influence.

      1. Will Apse profile image90
        Will Apseposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Two points- one it shows where true power lies.

        If there is a war on the middle classes it emanates from the very rich. The middle classes have seen their income stagnate over the last thirty years. Everyone unfortunate enough to lie below this group has seen a decline in income.

        http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/1a8a5cb2-9ab2 … ab49a.html

        http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/09/busin … .html?_r=1

        It is a state of affairs that dates pretty much from the Reagen era and the massive tax cuts for the very rich that followed shortly afterwards.

        The second point is: DATA. Reliable data is a wonderful thing.

        If you want to engage in meaningful debate why not get your quotes from reputable sources- not crummy blogs?

        What is wrong with the Washington Post or the Wall Street Journal, if you are inclined to the right? They check their facts before they slant them to their cause- which is acceptable to everyone. The University of Chicago make the right wing case most forcefully, why not start looking at what they produce?

        It is possible to be a right-winger without being either a dupe or a peddler of falsehoods.

        1. lady_love158 profile image61
          lady_love158posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          From your own source wealth and power have been consistent between the groups discussed within 3% or so. From your own source taxes are progressive the rich pay more. Frankly I'm not sure I trust their numbers. If I look at my own situation and add up all the taxes I pay it would equal about half of what I earn not 20% as that piece suggests. I would also take exception that a tiny few pay capital gains... almost everyone with a job and a 401k or a retirement is exposed to that tax. Can the rich afford to pay more? Sure! Should they? Maybe that depends on what is being done with the money. This is where we separate the liberals from conservatives! Liberals want government to play a bigger role in our lives. They want a bureacracy to adminster "fairness", a slippery slope if ever there was one!
          I might also point out that your source indicated power also leads to wealth and this is confirmed in studies where people in power have a feeling if entitlement and rules or laws don't apply to them. These facts support the notion that smaller government is less corrupt just by virtue of being smaller. Smaller government also means less of a tax burden on EVERYBODY. Smaller government also means greater freedom less regulation and less bureacracy. Quite frankly I don't see how anyone can argue logically for the opposite.

  12. BobbiRant profile image59
    BobbiRantposted 5 years ago

    LOL,LOL,LOL  rofl   The RICH are intent on destroying the middle class.  Why?  THEY think they will achieve immortality through medical science and feel the dwindling resources should NOT be wasted on us middle class 'slugs.'  THEY feel they are the only ones who deserve anything, by virtue of being nothing more than wealthy.

    Question:  Are you misinformed, paid by someone to write this 'stuff' or just plain angry a the world?

  13. rebekahELLE profile image91
    rebekahELLEposted 5 years ago

    and the war started long before the current administration!  If you haven't read this article, it's worth reading. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne … l-20110216

    "This institutional reality has absolutely nothing to do with politics or ideology — it takes place no matter who's in office or which party's in power."

    1. BobbiRant profile image59
      BobbiRantposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      That's a great article, I really liked it.  I think if I look down at my arms and legs, I'll see a Left and a Right.  NOT to be found anymore in D.C. though.  Only Elites (rich) on one side trying to sway us, and Elites (rich) pushing back at the other elites, from the other side,  The tug of war is between one rich side and another rich side, simply trying to give us an illusion of Left and Right.  ALL, or Both sides, that is, care for no one in America or the world.  People don't get it and maybe never will.

 
working