I have heard a lot of the gay rights movements comparing themselves the civil rights movements in the 60's. They say that their struggle for equality is the same as Black people's struggle and women’s equality and such. Is it the same thing?
I don't know much about what gay people are deprived of besides the right to marriage. Anyone care to weigh in on this?
Ok, the right to marry is extremely important. On the very practical level, it gives gays the same right to have their relationships and commitments recognized as every bit as valid as heterosexuals.
On a deeper level however, it is a major stepping stones in being treated the same as any other person. Gays are not treated that way now. On these boards alone, I have seen gays accused of being promiscuous and disease ridden. These stereotypes exist because bigots must find a way to dehumanize gays so they can get around the self loathing that comes with hating an entire group of people for no reason.
Like blacks and women, societal acceptance of gays can only be accomplished by granting them the same legal rights (across the board) as are granted to every other person in the U.S. That means the right to marry, legal actions against discrimination, and protection under hate crime laws. As long as the U.S. Government treats Gays differently, then the rest of the population in general will feel justified in their own prejudices. Bigots will always exist, but they shouldn't have the government in any way supporting their hatred. Let them keep their biased ideas in their own head and share their stupidity only in the privacy of their own homes. That way my children will be less likely to be exposed to it and certainly less likely to see it as acceptable behavior.
They aren't saying it is the same, they are saying it is also an issue of civil/human rights. Which it is.
Other right they don't have, next of kin rights, inheritance rights, parental rights, right to not be fired for being gay, right to spousal health insurance, right to be a tax "household"... I could go on.
No, it's not the same thing. There is no good comparison to the civil rights movement.
Believe it or not, there are many people who struggle with this issue and who do NOT push a gay agenda. But liberal activists (at the lead of Obama) have escalated the situation very quickly, for their own purposes; and those purposes are not humanitarian.
*sighs* And what would those nefarious purposes be? And what exactly is the "Gay" agenda?
Odd, isn't it, that I've seen so many references to that evil agenda but have never had anyone tell me what it is?
I suspect it has something to do with not being beaten by rednecks, denied employment, or having someone standing outside their houses holding signs that say "God Hates Fags". Probably something about living their lives peacefully and having the same chances to screw up their marriages and children that the fundies have.
My son's gay and he has an agenda. Here's how it goes.
1. Avoid certain places (the passage way at the top of our street is one of them) this is the place where he got his head kicked in (literally) by three others, who were shouting dirty F'ing shirt lifter at the same time.
2. Don't listen to those who claim to be the mouthpiece for God himself, they will always compare a gay man or woman "to the devil himself"
3. When the religious argument for the devil himself can't be won, then the "unnatural" argument emerges. Nature did not intend things this way you know! Perhaps, it's a mental illness? He is well prepared for this
4. Only be completely honest about you sexuality at work or in college, if you have limited ambition and do not seek promotion or understanding friends.
5. If you decide to be completely honest about your sexuality, demand the same rights as others and want to be accepted as an equal human being, then be prepared for the accusation that you have an evil agenda.
THAT memo I did get. I'm sorry he has to go through that Hollie.
Thank you Melissa. Things are better now. He has had to learn the tough reality that many human beings, who claim to love humanity, are in fact hypocrites. Discrimination begins with language (negative) and while all those who claim they love the sinner, but not the sin, would never harm another human being, are fueling the fire of discrimination and hatred, which in many circumstances escalates to physical violence. They also contribute to another disservice, there are those who belong to a faith, but do not judge or set themselves apart from their fellow men and women, they are tolerant, understanding and believe in equality, but because of the "mad man" they're tarred with the same brush as the "mad man"(but only by some)
And to add to Brenda's, I can see that Obama's escalation of the gay issue and some other values issues is a diversion tack-tick to advert attention from the most dangerous issues facing our nation.
Maybe you ain't been paying attention these past twenty years but the news acts like it's a felony for a man to find women attractive. Now you'd open a can of worms where a male employer gets destroyed for eating a popcicle in front of a gay man.
This is why Americans are un-employable, why the economy is flat and getting flatter, why all those jobs got outsourced and will stay that way. An employer risks financial ruin, teetering on the edge, running the risk every day that one employee might utter any one of a thousand offensive words in the presence of another. I change my own oil at home now because the last time I took my wife's car to the dealer for service the woman working there accused me of looking down her top as I held the door for her, like it was a crime or something. And I said, "So what?" and never went back.
This keeps up and I'll move to Australia.
It's just not worth it to hire Amercans any more, and wages aren't the problem, it's the attitudes and the laws.
Seriously, you don't know why a women would be offended by you looking down her top? You need any help booking that trip to Australia? Let me know when and I'll help you pack.
Well, if it were me, I would have been insulted because my breasts are mine and should only be viewed by my husband and any children that I may be nursing. Also, it is really creepy with an older gentleman leers at my chest. It makes me feel like grabbing the nearest coat and covering myself. It feels nasty. I really don't feel like being any old horny guys reason for wrinkled viagra-aided wood.
Finally, when doing my job I would hate to have to deal with anyone else's hormonal issues. If you want to look at the breasts of a woman that is working, pony up the 10 dollar cover charge and two drink minimum and go to a titty bar. There are women that show them for a living, I am not one of them.
In short, I would think of you as an old nasty pervert and you would make me uncomfortable and put me on guard until you left. It's hard to tell what a pervert will do.
Your explanation coveres a lot of "I, I, I," and "Me, Me, Me," and then you make offensive, sexist remarks against me, but through it all, there is no explanation of what I did wrong.
Do you not see the problem here?
Yes, it is I, I, I, because the breasts in the example would have belonged to ME. It is not your God-Given right to stare at a woman's chest. Breasts were not created for your amusement.
It's not sexist because it's not directed at all males, just the ones that think that a women's body is put on earth for their viewing pleasure.
What you did wrong was essentially force your attention on a woman who obviously didn't want it. If you don't understand that please make good on your offer to go to Australia, because my daughter will be a teenager someday and you'll be even older and creepier then. I'd hate for her to have to taser you.
I've said my piece, take what you want from it but I'm done with you.
I for one wouldn't want to look down her blouse.
You have no idea how relieved she is about that too.
How do you know what she wants? Do you think you speak for all women?
Is that another of your subliminal answers? You really think all women think like you, they all want to be ignored and left alone by elderly gentleman? No sugar-daddies for the skanks?
Well I can say we usually don't want strange men ogling us wherever we go. Unless we're paid to be there.
I understand most of what you are saying. If I tear my pants and expose something I don't want people to see I might even be angry and disgusted if I caught someone looking. I would most definitely be embarrassed.
I would not, however, tear those pants intentionally and that's what I don't understand. Women intentionally expose a part of their anatomy that they know will draw attention and then demand that no one look. Even when they cover up they intentionally wear clothing that they know will expose them during the ordinary course of the day and during ordinary activities.
Why? Why don't you simply cover up if you don't want to be seen? Are you such a tease that you want people to look so that you can be "offended" and demand that they don't? Do you all have multiple personalities, one an exhibitionist and one not? Do you enjoy the implied compliment of attractiveness but then feel that you have to stop the "naughty" behavior that you enjoy? Is it just part of the flirting game that people play?
I don't think that particular partial exhibitionism is a part of the male psyche and will never by understood by men. We just know that we'd better ignore that "hook" and not be caught looking.
I am sorta there with you wilderness, if I were to wear a low-cut outfit I would assume that people were going to look. It's a double edged sword when I am going out with my husband and am doing it for him. (He is allowed to look ) but gain the attention of an occasional onlooker.
I would assume that the women in question was in a uniform if she were working at a repair shop, therefore she has no real control in her attire. She should be able to do her job without being leered at.
I have also found that those of us that are larger-chested by nature could wear a turtle neck and still be stared at. It is incredibly disrespectful and it really does make me (and many other women I know) feel insulted and uncomfortable. I am reasonable enough to know that men (and some women) are going to look, but if it's long enough and obvious enough that we notice then it is both creepy and sometimes threatening.
Basically, I don't think the women in question was being a tease and she was right to call him out on it. It is not his right or the right of any other human being to make someone feel uncomfortable to satisfy their own urges. That shows a lack of self-control that doesn't bode well.
Not to mention that when I am having a conversation with someone it's damn insulting to have them staring at my chest. It gives the impression that I am not being taken seriously. If it was a work environment, then THAT becomes the real issue.
Hmmm. We may be talking about different things here. It is one thing to make a quick glance and look away (or so it seems to me) and quite another to openly stare.
One is nearly impossible to avoid; the other is impossibly rude.
I've assumed that Jed referenced a glance. Holding a door for a lady I think it normal to watch as she passes through; if nothing else to make sure I'm out of the way enough to allow easy passage. That could, I suppose, be taken for a stare but it is not. It is just courtesy.
If it was just a glance, it is likely she would not have noticed. As he admitted that he did it, was unashamed, and actually sounded offended that she laid into him I'm assuming it was significant. As he seemed to be completely at a loss as to what he did wrong, I don't see any reason why he would have limited it to a glance. If he knew about the "glance and look away rule" he would have just accepted it as a "Damn, I got caught" moment.
As you mentioned before, we look. That doesn't mean it's okay-we are still using another person for our own purposes- but it happens. When we get caught, we risk offending other people. Acknowledge that what you did was unacceptable and apologize. If you play the victim and say "I don't know what I did wrong" then you are aren't far away from "It was her fault I raped her, she was dressed like a slut".
The devaluation of the person attached to the breasts is the same. It's saying "It is my right to treat you like a sex object and if you object you are being unreasonable"
+1 to your posts in this whole conversation.
Like you said, when I dress up "sexy" for my husband's benefit on a date, I expect a little attention from others, too, and don't get offended unless it's really obvious and gross. But I've had guys stare openly at my chest when I'm dressed in loose fitting t-shirts (my usual choice of attire), and I'm not even that well-endowed! Some guys just think they're entitled to women's bodies.
I love everything being said here and hope that I raise my daughters with this kind of mentality to dress how you want to be viewed. A fatherless country is what is teaching men to act this way.
A woman who wears a top where her tits are in danger of falling out are going to be gawked at. Men who stare perversly are going to be villianized and both deserve what they get in my opinion.
You've hit upon a point that's very relevant----a fatherless country. It does affect youngsters negatively (most of the time, I think, although it's not the only reason).
Are you kidding me? You really think gawking is a new thing? My brother...buy a book.
I think I understand your point, but I disagree strongly.
Firstly, I don't know any gays that don't act appropriately. Exactly what behaviors are you referring to?
Secondly, any individual that is openly gay (which means living in the same house as his/her partner, going on a date, introducing their partner as their partner) poses the risk of anything from the cold shoulder to loss of employment- and occasionally a beating or worse.
Finally, all the respectful behavior in the world isn't going to make the religious right stop blocking attempts to legalize gay marriage. They aren't going to suddenly say "Richard and George are really great guys, maybe we should let them get married"
Lots of African Americans were really nice people, it didn't stop many lynchings.
Here's a situation for you. Around 8 years ago I worked at a Honda. We built Accura's and Accords there. I worked for the Quality Control Department and most days of my 8 hour shift was sat at a desk trolling thru paperwork with the other people of my department which consisted of 5 other people. Of those 5, 2 were gay. One was my boss.
On a daily bases, because he knew it made me uncomfurtable, one of the gay men would tell me how much he thought I was funny and bat his eyes at me like he was a girl and tell me to becareful whenever I went out onto the lines. He would make comments like, "I like my men tall." And then would look at me and smile. All this was said in front of my boss who was gay and he would laugh. I was afraid to say anything to anyone because of the fear that I would be viewed as homophobic or it was a hate crime.
Obviously I had concerns with this being that I was raised by a gay couple, my point is that it shut me down and he got a kick out of making me uncomfurtable. I think it's things like this that straight people shouldn't be afraid of addressing. I'm not excusing the horrific things that straight people have done, I grew up hearing the names of people like Matthew Shepard quiet often. I'm just pointing out that not all gay people are mature and in commited relationships in their homes.
Here we go. I'm going to weigh in.
First of all, do you actually know what rights come with marriage? Here we go:
1. The right to apply to bring your partner into the country.
2. The right of automatic custody of your partner's children if they die.
3. The right to inherit your partner's possessions and assets if they die intestate (without making a will).
4. The right to visit them in the hospital.
5. The right to make decisions about their end-of-life care.
Can you really say those rights are unimportant?
On top of that, gays have just after a LONG fight obtained the right to serve in the military without having to be in the closet.
Gay teenagers fight bullying and verbal discrimination every day.
Gay teenagers are OFTEN prevented from going to the prom unless they lie about who they are and go with an opposite sex friend. This happens ALL THE TIME.
There are many states in which sexual orientation is NOT a protected category for discrimination. This means that an employer can legally fire a gay person for being gay. A landlord can legally evict a gay couple...for being gay. Because it's *not a protected category at the Federal level* in the way race and sex are.
Do gay people have a better time of it than twenty, ten, five or even, heck ONE year ago? Yes. Do we have equality? No.
And that's just in the United States. Try being gay in an Arab country. Or most of Africa. I bet it's not much fun in much of Asia, either.
probably be treated with dignity and respect as any other man and woman on the planet regardless of race,gender, financial status, or any right you have on this earth without discrimination or hate!
Good question. Nothing is ever the SAME. We can find differences-- hence why each unique group has to go through a civil rights movement to begin with. What all of these groups have in common are civil rights violations that are not or were not recognized as our society accepted them and somehow excused the inequity.
It is interesting discussion of these civil rights issues seems to truly annoy some people. I am not sure I understand that response. When I am not a member of a group claiming civil rights violations I either fee sympathetic or indifference. When the response is anger and what they are fighting for will not affect someone directly in anyway it should be a sign that there is a civil right violation and the angry are reflecting the issue.
Well the main one would be the next of kin problems. The gay partner is not a spouse or parent.
So imagine, you can't pick you kid up from school. You partner gets hit by a bus and you can't see your partner in the intensive care ward and his bitch of a Mother won't let you and she gets to decide whether to unplug and how/where to bury. Then you child is taken away from you and given to her.
Imagine your partner gets cancer and cannot be covered under your health insurance and... dies, Unnecessarily.
Imagine your boss sees you reading a gay magazine in a coffee shop and fires you. He explains that your were fired for being gay. Almost everywhere in the US this is legal.
I hate hate crime legislation - which is a hate crime, I'm certain.
If all human lives are equal - then "hate crimes" do not exist - but it's probably a hate crime for me to state that I hate hate crimes - please report me to DHS and all the others ASAP. My hatred of hate crimes is also a thought crime.
But not all of my thoughts are of equal value - but every human life is of equal value, and I don't give a fuck who you fuck - my life is no more valuable than yours, and nobody's life is more valuable than the richest person's life.
I guess I just don't understand this stuff. I was raised by a gay mother and her partner from the time I was 13 till I was 18. They were happy with eachother and I never heard them be upset over anything like marriage. They would get pissed at the gay pride parades for the guys wearing nothing but a banana hammock and the topless woman. They told me that it was people acting like that, that made gays look bad.
The worst part of them being gay, I took the beating of. They arn't together any more but my moms partner, or ex partner, could careless about the gay right struggles.
That's a very interesting comment! I'm from a family that couldn't be much more different - but I believe that I understand the thoughts of your mother/partner as well as anyone.
If acting like a dumbass was sufficient reason to deny someone rights, none of would have any.
I'm still waiting on a definition of the "Gay Agenda"... I would have thought it would have came with the membership package... but no, only some cargo pants, a K.D. Lang C.D. and some ace bandages. Maybe if I would have chosen the "paisley" membership level instead of the standard rainbow level.
Yeah I want to see this alleged "gay agenda" as well. I keep picturing a pink notebook decorated with unicorns and rainbows, maybe with a purple feathery pen to write in it.
I think it is the same as women's and minority's struggles if you look at what all of those movements have in common:
1) Peace and freedom from violence
2) Against workplace discrimination
3) Against housing discrimination
4) Right not to be judged or condemned by society because of who they were born as.
5) Wanting to be treated like a human being and equally protected as such under the law.
Each movement has it's own unique ambitions and unique struggles, but they have a lot of things in common.
Here ya go
THE GAY AGENDA
1. Gay men and lesbians should marry one another, and extol each other every tangible and intangible benefit the institution provides. They cannot stop gay marriage as long as gays are marrying. If you are gay and single without a desire to marry, marry a homosexual of the opposite sex anyway, and donate any marriage credits the government may offer to any gay organization seeking to destroy heterosexual norms.
2. Once benefits are secured, divorce. Wreck the sanctity of the institution by driving up the divorce rates from the current 52% to at least 80%.
3. Remember 52% of marriages end in divorce, the remaining 48% in death. There's nothing sanctimonious about that. Demand the institution and then wreck it. James Dobson was right about our evil intentions. We just plan to be quicker than he thought.
4. Get a gun and learn how to shoot. It's as much about arming bears as it is bearing arms. If you think you're protected by the Constitution, think again. If they don't allow you to marry, the next amendment will be to deny gays guns.
5. Reclaim Jesus. He was a Jewish queer to begin with, and don't let anyone forget it.
6. BAN DIVORCE. If the institution is so in need of protection, seek a constitutional amendment to ban divorce. One marriage, once.
7. Normalize - Thwart fashion and style sense inclinations so that homophobes cannot separate you from straights. Gay vague my ass. Make it gay impossible to tell.
8. Hate Crime laws are just the beginning. Once those are passed either federally or in all 50 states, begin campaign to eliminate homophobia entirely.
9. Like "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," thoughts or words equal conduct. Homophobic inclinations alone, even without any actions, should be criminal and punishable to the full extent of the law.
10. Penetrate the sperm banks to perpetuate the gene. Although the nature vs. nurture debate rages on, ensure that as many vials of semen contain gay genes.
11. Lie about your sexual orientation when giving blood. Screening of blood is either effective or not. If a celibate gay's blood is more dangerous than that of sexually promiscuous heterosexual, the problem is in the screening process, not the orientation of the donor. Faggot blood is God's blood.
12. Alternatively, set up blood banks for gay blood only. For us fags by us fags (FUFBUF).
13. Become surrogate mothers or males donate sperm to lesbian couples. If children of gays are to be put up for adoption, stipulate that heterosexuals are unfit for parenting such children, no matter how sad or desperate they may be.
14. If you are HIV positive, engage in unprotected sex with pedophile priests and pastors. We have enough recruits from Christian schools and the military without us having to house perverts cloaked in religion. There's the Catholic Church for that.
15. Tithe. Make sure that gay representation permeates every level of governance.
16. Sneak gay subtext into every book, movie, video game, TV show or other media that you have access to. Nothing like subliminal messaging to equate queerness with Godliness. (Don't forget, they catch the obvious ones like Spongebob and Tinky Winky, but they'll miss Bart or Freddie from Grand Theft Auto because they're too well hidden. Don't worry, their badly parented, unsupervised kids will know it when they see it).
17. Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians etc. are fundamentally the same. Don't pledge allegiance to any one party. Make all parties grovel for your vote, not take it for granted.
18. Ensure that you preserve DNA samples to be used for cloning purposes if necessary.
19. Join the military and rise in the ranks (as has always been the case). When enough gay servicemembers come out en masse it will force the military to drop their outdated policy, and admit that probably 25% or more only happen to shoot straight.
20. Ensconce yourself in virulently homophobic organizations like the Boy Scouts and Southern Baptists or Concerned Women for America. The more indispensable homos they have in their fold, the more hypocritical their ultimate exposure. And any bad behavior can simply be blamed on their organizations.
21. If you're a sick pedophile, join the Catholic Church. They'll be good to you and shelter you like they always have.
22. Recruit straight men and women. We're accused of it anyway, so we may as well give the accusation legs. And remember, when push comes to shove, a six-pack or a joint goes a long way.
23. If you're male, give Concerned Women for America a raison d'être by fucking their husbands, sons and fathers. And of course, you dykes will know exactly what to do with their daughters. At least those that aren't already teaching us in our beds.
24. Bombard the Federal Communications Commission any time anything remotely offensive to gay people appears on the airwaves. Homophobia is indecent, and our children must be sheltered from it. They want to regulate decency. Let's keep them really, really busy.
25. Create facilities that recondition homophobic deviancy. Certain religious groups have attempted to "straighten" gay children. If their assertions are correct, children exercising homophobic tendencies can be corrected using electro-therapy.
26. Turn eradicating homophobia and encouraging the gay lifestyle from a cottage industry into a multi-billion dollar cash cow.
27. Turn "Heather has a Mommy and a Daddy. Don't Blame it on Her" into a best seller.
28. Most gay children are born of heterosexual parents. If they want to eradicate homosexuality, vasectomies and hysterectomies are fabulously effective. Safer than condoms and abstinence!
29. Some are still attempting to define homosexuality as a disease. Let them move forward. Once passed in any region -- local, state or federal -- take full advantage of employment protection legislation and related compliance including Medicaid and workers compensation. They can call us names but it's going to cost them. Big.
30. Until marriage is equal, heterosexuals should be forbidden from wearing wedding rings in public. The blatant flaunting of their sexuality is inappropriate, and we don't need our children conjuring up penises and vaginas every time they spot a wedding ring. Gay marriage would neutralize that consequence.
31. Heterosexual public displays of affection can be confusing for gay kids. There should be no hugging or physical touch between heterosexuals in public places. Brief handshakes or a brief affirmative hand on a shoulder is okay.
32. Any literature or educational material in any school or public library should display warnings if they contain heterosexual content.
33. The Tinky Defense - San Francisco Supervisor, Dan White, blamed Twinkies for murdering gay Supervisor, Harvey Milk and Mayor, George Moscone. It worked. If you happen to kill a heterosexual, simply blame Jerry Falwell's Tinky Winky obsession as the reason. You were purple with rage.
34. Any homophobic persons, even former homophobes that have been rehabilitated, should be required to register using the same model as child molesters. There should be strict limitations pertaining to their proximity to any gay bars, clubs, gyms or institutions that are predominantly gay. Parents of gay children need to be aware of the dangers such individuals present, and should be aware of their presence in their neighborhoods.
35. If accused of having a Gay Agenda, point to this page and respond, "it's not an agenda, it's the Gospel."
You do know that was a satire piece written by Clinton Feins right? Of course you don't. Now fix my vacuum cleaner.
Funny, I couldn't understand why I toddled to the plagerism checker.
Actually I did, I was waiting for one of you to call it hate speech so I could point that out. Google is your friend.
I really do need my vacuum cleaner fixed. I am not being a jerk on that. I have fought with it for 2 hours. It must be destroyed now out of fury.
It has no suction. I is simply moving stuff around. I have taken it apart...cleaned it, the thing is done. I lose a cleaner like every 6 months. Dogs man...dogs. I am just venting. The puppy spilled the entire can of coffee in the office...had to clean it with the hand cleaner. Still calming down.
I've heard buying a major cleaner will fix everything...one of those 2k things. I just can't imagine spending 2 grand on a vacuum cleaner.
Ok, you can clean it all day, but is the brush turning? If not its probably the belt.
Yep, the brush is turning...but it isn't sucking anything up. The belt is on. This seems to happen to me every 6 months. Though, I buy those $80 Wal Mart vacuum cleaners, so maybe they are just junk. The dog hair screws it up pretty quickly...that and whatever the puppy shreds while I am at work, the little psychopath.
I bought one not too long ago, I took it completely apart and found a big wad of debris I didn't see the first time. I know this will sound bad, but blow on the intake hose and see if you feel air. If not you probably have hair clogged up in there.
So, where's the accusation of hate speech?
Its festering in the liberal mind somewhere, it usually comes out when no other point can be made. Its a lot like the racist dribble they will be trotting out in a few months.
Then clearly, in the liberal mind, other points can be made.
Thats true, you can make two points. Hate speech or racism, congratulations.
Remind me. Hate speech is one thing, being beaten to a pulp is quite another. Where is the racist element of this thread? Or, are they both intertwined for you?
It's unnatural. It could be a mental illness, you know!
Likely, should we get a proctologist to do an examination of his brain?
Who knows, a pain in the ass is a pain in the brain.
Repairguy47, you managed both in one sentence. I merely asked you to illustrate your points, see, this is why no one takes you seriously. Your response is always, as predicted, empty.
Then why do you constantly want my attention? Stalk much?
Oh, I don't want your attention. Are you frightened of me? I meekly ask for clarification of your perspective? Why do you perceive this as stalking? Odd.
You don't want my attention? Why do you constantly post to anything I post? Its ok, a lot of girls are like you, they eventually grow out of it.
They're called challenges repairyguy. Try to be realistic. This is the real world, right?
Why are you so worried then? Have I been offensive to you?
Just can't help yourself, can you?
I'm so pleased, you were finally able to answer the question put to you. Well done.
R H E T O R I C A L employed for rhetorical effect; especially : asked merely for effect with no answer expected <a rhetorical question>
Hope that helps.
Welp, this has been an interesting thread
I didn't know what to expect posting a topic like this but if broken vacums, down blouse glances and foggy definitions on the gay agenda is what is talked about I guess it's relevent. Go Fig...
My mistake. I was ticked at my vacuum. I'm sorry for throwing my own junk in there. I was SO mad at it. It has been sacrificed now.
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