What is the mark of passage for transition from Boy to Man

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   NGRIA Bassettposted 14 years ago

   Some cultures have a rite of passage, what is it in the USA and in your culture?

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      There is no "rite" of passage for a boy to grow into a man.
      
      Life is a journey on it's own. To put limits on it, implies you need someone else's approval for your life.
      
      Which isn't the case.

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         rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I don't think she is putting limits on it, there are cultural traditions in many countries, even in the US, but not predominantly among the masses. That's not very nice to say if you do not understand her culture.
         
         Jewish people mark the Bar Mitsvah as a rite of passage for 13 year old boys. I am not Jewish, but this is one I can think of.

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            As you said- the Jewish people the Bar Mitsvah as a rite of passage for 13 year old boys.
            
            The "bar mitsvah" a rite of passage, created by man which determines when a boy becomes a man.
            
            A Boy becomes a man when he himself thinks he is ready.
            
            Not sooner, because someone tells them.
            
            It's a ridiculous notion.

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               rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               perhaps ridiculous to you.

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      rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      a few years ago, I read a very interesting book about the passage from boyhood to man and it was very revealing in what sometimes lacks in the US and probably other countries also.
      
      I will try to find it~ it was a discussion of perhaps this is why it is so difficult for some young men to understand their role in life because it is not so easily defined. the rites of passage that exist in some cultures clearly mark that passage from boy to man.
      
      although I agree with casgil that life is a journey, we are still male and female and have certain stages of life we go through.

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         Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Stages in Life?
         
         Boy,
         
         Man.
         
         Girl,
         
         Woman.
         
         Two stages for each gender.

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      Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It's an interesting question.  I don't think there is one, which is probably why there's a lot of young men that still act like kids.  You could say that dating and getting married is a rite of passage but so many of us, men and women are delaying that.

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         zadrobiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I agree. There isn't really one.
         
         I hope it's not getting married-- I haven't had any luck finding any good girls so I might not be a man until I'm 30

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Don't feel bad......LOL!
            
            I'm 40 year old and never been married.
            
            Does that mean I am still a little boy?

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      rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      well, absoultely, a rite of passage does not make a boy a man. that is not her question. obviously some grown men haven't made that  passage when they're consumed with hot babe material.
      
      her original question is asking about different cultrual traditions for rites of passage.

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         Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         But, it is to insinuate that all cultures have rite of passages.
         
         It's a huge assumption.
         
         Just wanted to point that out.

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            rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I understand what you're saying. 
            
            and men, marriage doesn't make a boy a man, don't worry.  some boys grow into men because of circumstances beyond their control. perhaps the rite of passage is life itself. 
            
            thanks for clarifying.
            
            nigra, when I find the title I'll let you know if you're interested.

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               NGRIA Bassettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               No assumption intended. If there is no rite of passage known then that is the obvious response.
               There are less formal "rites" as dating age, or the age when a young man may be allowed to socialize with his father's friends for games, drinks etc.
               Drivers license is a rite of passage of sorts, being allowed to drive the family's car . In my country boys can't wait for their 16th birthday to get a licence to ride a motor bike (mobylette).
               Here is the link to an article you may find interesting.
               http://www.manolith.com/2009/07/14/rites-of-passage/

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                  rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  thanks for providing the link. this topic has me thinking again for a subject that is important because there are so many boys and young men who grow up without a father or man in the house.
                  The mother can do what a mother does, she can never replace the father.
                  
                  Or you have the other extreme where parents are indulging their teens with everything and taking away their opportunity to grow and make mistakes. They do their homework, follow them to college, fill out job applications for them, etc.   
                  
                  Like Jon says above, you would hope that a boy becomes a man when he is on his own, providing for himself. It doesn't always happen this way any longer. food for thought, thanks for the thread.

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         Maximus591posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Being consumed with hot babe material does not indicate a mans lack of maturity. Would you prefer he settled on some unfashionable trollop who wore thick glasses and had a moustache? Would that be a sign of the mans maturity?   
         
         Often, the culture and religious significance of a rites of passage is not the same as the boys own unique interpretation of a rites of passage. For many, when their voice breaks is a rite of passage, also discovering new and inventive things they can do with their penis is also a rites of passage.  lol

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      rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I was just doing some research and found the titles of those books I referenced to in this thread, if you're interested.
      
      Real Boys: Rescuing Our Sons From the Myths of Boyhood
      
      Raising Cain:  Protecting the Emotional Life of Boys
      
      they are worth looking into if you're raising or teaching boys.

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   cosetteposted 14 years ago

   i agree. a boy becomes a man when he feels he is ready. he usually arrives at this conclusion by handing respnsibility successfully, dealing with many of life's problems on his own and through applying what he learns from role models in his life. while i respect other cultures, i think compelling a boy to endure some painful rite when he reaches 12 years of age, say, doesn't make him a "man" just because he completes it. he could still be immature and whatnot.

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you cosette

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         cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         you're welcome.

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   Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

   "Being a man" is not something boys "pass into".  It's something that grows from within, provided a boy doesn't have emotional problems.  I've seen some very little boys acting very much like men when the circumstances call for it (often more like men than some adult males do, even when the circumstances would seem to call for it).

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I've seen what you said in action.
      
      More ways than I care to reveal.....LOL!

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   Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

   Cagsil, I think know exactly why you've added the "LOL".   

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Are you psychic?
      
      If not, explain?

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   Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

   I was thinking of the (shall we say) loftier ways little boys show surprising tendencies to act very much like strong, solid, sensible, caring, men - even in the US, where there are generally no "official" rites of passage (even for people who belong to some religions that don't necessarily have them).

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      Maximus591posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Nope, when little boys discover their penis has another function apart from peeing, then all lofty notions of what being a man is all about takes second place to discovering their new toy.

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         Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         LOL!

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            Lisa HWposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            (I second the LOL, I'll admit - and yet...)
            
            Oh, Maximus, Maximus, Maximus.       This is the thing that so many men don't realize and so many women (mothers, wives, girlfriends, in particular) wish they did:  Being a man is about so much more than that one part of a guy's anatomy.  That part of the anatomy may have everything to do with being "male" but "being a man" will always be about a guy's heart (and use of the word, "heart", of course, is not intended to be taken in the anatomical sense).

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               Maximus591posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               You are profoundly mistaken.
               
               The mans pleasure tool is the centre of the universe, nothing else matters.
               
               Whether it's big or small, fat (you ladies like that one) or skinny, when a boy discovers his schlong and the ingenious uses he can put it to, then he truly is a man.
               
               Everything else is either mere packaging or religious gobbledegook designed to create an aura of what being a true man is.
               
               So girls, worship your mans schlong and he will show you the true meaning of being a man. 

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                  prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  being a man is beyond that...."mans pleasure tool" as you call it is not the center of the Universe, only the periphery...the center is the pocket LOL...kidding aside he should be responsible..

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   awareposted 14 years ago

   A tattoo .I like black ink myself.

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   manlypoetrymanposted 14 years ago

   Well...and I'm just shootin' straight on this one...But back in my day...when you could walk right into the local "Utot'em" (a convenience store) and buy a beer with out getting carded...you were on your way! Also...and I don't think...I am too far out of line here...with the ladies and all...based on this particular topic...but a big indicator of personal achievement for yourself of a becoming a man was the speed and agility with which one could unhook a bra...preferably already on a girl...but still this was a good sign for rite of passage to becoming a man!

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   tantrumposted 14 years ago

   In my country you become a man when you can hold a gun in your hand. that being more or less at the age of 13

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      tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ah ! and shoot of course !

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         manlypoetrymanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Somehow...I don't think your talking about being left out in a distant meadow before dawn in a deer blind at age 13...!?

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            tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            no .i'm talking about being in the middle of the city before dusk

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               manlypoetrymanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Yikes...I think I like the Texas version better!

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                  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  

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   EYEAM4ANARCHYposted 14 years ago

   My parents left me at the mall across town with nothing but a rusty bike, a coupon for a free taco at Baja Fresh, and a 24 hour bus pass. In order to prove my manhood I had to make it home on my own.

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That's pushing to a stretch?
      
      What age?

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         EYEAM4ANARCHYposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         13 cycles around the big shiny ball.
         
         They also moved to a different house without telling me the address.

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    torimariposted 14 years ago

    pubes

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       zadrobiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       haha I hope that isn't our rite of passage
       
       I knew a guy that started growing body hair in elementary school. "Young man" hehe

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    Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago

    Excuse me? Bless you!

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    LondonGirlposted 14 years ago

    There's Shakespeare's 7 ages of man:
    
    "And one man in his time plays many parts,
    His acts being seven ages. At first the infant,
    Mewling and puking in the nurse's arms.
    
    Then, the whining schoolboy with his satchel
    And shining morning face, creeping like snail
    Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
    Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
    Made to his mistress' eyebrow. Then a soldier,
    Full of strange oaths, and bearded like the pard,
    
    Jealous in honour, sudden, and quick in quarrel,
    Seeking the bubble reputation
    Even in the cannon's mouth. And then the justice
    In fair round belly, with good capon lin'd,
    With eyes severe, and beard of formal cut,
    Full of wise saws, and modern instances,
    
    And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
    Into the lean and slipper'd pantaloon,
    With spectacles on nose, and pouch on side,
    His youthful hose well sav'd, a world too wide,
    For his shrunk shank, and his big manly voice,
    
    Turning again towards childish treble, pipes
    And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
    That ends this strange eventful history,
    Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
    Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything."

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    Jon Allanposted 14 years ago

    Like most African cultures here too.
    You are a man the day you can look after yourself. Being non-dependant on your parents and provide everything yourself.
    
    There is a certain other African culture here that states that you can only be a man once youve acquired enough cows to buy a wife...The term is "lobola". Its a primitive thing that you'll find seldomly here nowadays

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    Stevennix2001posted 14 years ago

    (joke) when the boy finally  loses his virginity.  gigity gigity oooh!!

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    The Ropeposted 14 years ago

    except for the Jewish tradition, I know of no other in the US.  However! In my house, a boy becomes a man when he takes out the trash without being asked!  Now that's a man for ya'

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       Stevennix2001posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       so true.

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    Maximus591posted 14 years ago

    Lets see now. You're a 13 year old boy.
    
    What is the most interesting thing in his life at this age? His Marvel man comics? Or his flowering schlong lurking deep within his stinky pants?
    
    Marvel man or schlong?
    
    Oooh, tough call, isn't it?
    
    His schlong is king. He worships at the temple of his schlong. Admiring it (posing naked in front of a mirror)... exploring it's every nook and cranny, and seeing what interesting developments occur the longer he manipulates it in his hot, sweaty, youthful hands.

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       rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       hmm, a 13 year old boy is in front of his xbox playing games.
       maximus, maximus... how long has it been?

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    Sally's Troveposted 14 years ago

    Americans don't think much about these rites of passage.  If we Americans are lucky, we have a cultural heritage from another country or religious belief to rely on, as in the bar or bas mitzvah, or the Catholic rite of confirmation.
    
    I believe children need these celebrations, rituals, to honor their passages from childhoood into adulthoood.   
    
    These celebratory events put the responsibility on the child to face the world of adulthoood and also affirm that the child is ready to do just that.  When these celebrations go missing, I believe, the child remains a child.
    
    I'd like to share a tradition in my family that is outside the scope of transitioning from boy to man...it's about transitioning from girl to woman.  At the onset of the first menstrual cycle, my family honors the girl with gifts that point to her coming adulthood...perhaps a small bottle of champagne (in celebration of this change in life), a book or two about becoming a woman, a little gift of money to put away for her future, as well as the counsel of the women in her life who attend this celebration.
    
    Now, this girl is learning to accept her role as an adult, through celebration of her changes.
    
    I don't think there is any self-understanding that happens by magic belonging to children about this role of adults that they are to assume.  I think they need to have this passage marked and supported by the community around them.

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    brimancandyposted 14 years ago

    I think there are many things missing in American culture, and this is one of them. And, probably why so many young people end up so messed up, because nobody tells them they matter in any way, shape, or form. Unless they are steller athletes, or exceptionaly smart, nobody recognises them. Especially boys.
    
    I agree with Sally's Trove. We should have a right of passge in this country, it doesn't have to be a set age. But, shortly after puberty, parents should let their child know that things
    are going to be changing for them. Have that sex talk, make it
    a special occassion, the same occasion for every boy, like having a birthday. Give them a special gift, that might be one
    you received yourself. Why not?
    
    I went through a good portion of my teen years in self discovery. Reading books about it, nad studying it. Nobody ever told me in my family that I was becoming a man. I figured it out on my own. It wasn't until I was in my 20's that my grandmother said. You sure have turned out to be a handsome young man. My parents never said that to me.
    
    My mother was kind of in that, he's still my baby boy land, and my dad was always too busy doing his own thing to even have a
    few minutes to talk to him. But, I loved them bothe dearly.
    But, I certainly would have liked to have that recognition.
    I never even got the sex talk from them. I got mine from a therapist, who didn't know what the fuck he was talking about.

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    cheaptrickposted 14 years ago

    When I went to Nam I was a boy
    When I came back I was a man...

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