LDS secret hand shakes and baptisms for the dead (video)
This video shows what goes on inside the LDS temple. this video shows batism for the dead, secret hand shakes to enter heaven and marriage ceremony.
Cult of not
you judge for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6udew9axmdMThanks for that, I went on and watched a few more videos that showed why Mormonism fosters racism.
Nasty piece of work that book of Mormon is.Never read it. Is it worse than multiple cases of genocide? Are innocent children to be punished with eternal torment? Is slavery condoned? Did the prophet offer his daughters to strangers to keep them quiet?
All is relative.Is slavery condoned?
Up until fairly recently black were only allowed to join the Mormons if they wanted to be a slave to a white person in this world and the next. Black or dark skin is taught to be the mark of Satan. The only reason this was changed (allowing blacks) was because Jimmy Carter told the leader of the Mormons that he would tax the entire business.
They apparently take a vow to strive towards a non-secular society. Me thinks you guys dodged a bullet in the last election.
Nasty stuff. I'm not say these are are any worse than the others, I'm am however say they must be even more gullible if that is even possible.
Actually, it was a little sarcasm; the scripture of Mormons isn't really much worse, if any, than the bible or Koran.
Might have been a mistake, dodging that bullet. Just might have done a world of good to let the other sects see just what happens when religion runs, or tries to run, a country.The book of Mormon was first published in March 1830 by Joseph Smith. 1830 was not that long ago and his story of the golden plates that are no where to be found is mind numbingly stupid and riddled with the worst kind of racism.
LOL Not much change in 2,000 years, was there? Only the words; the utter nonsense is still there in abundance.
Likewise, no one can find Moses' tablets. Mormons are no worse and no better than other religions, for the most part. They do tend to help their own, which could be construed as being a valuable perk for joining them - if one is inclined to that sort of bent.
Granted the Mormons practiced a form a racism, but so did the Christians. After all, who owned slaves until they were forced to give them up?This is one of the best articles on slavery in the Bible that Ive seen. I hope you'll have the chance to read it.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic … bible.htmlUnbelievable, I knew I should have clicked on that link. I thought you said you don't believe anything except for the bible? Do you realize that contrary to that link the bible says one is allowed to beat a slave as long as they survive? And at one point your peaceful loving God convinced a slave to return to her owner how raped her and left her with child?
Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT
However, you may purchase male and female slaves from among the nations around you.You may also purchase the children of temporary residents who live among you, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property,passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat them as slaves, but you must never treat your fellow Israelites this way.
Exodus 21:20-21 NLT
If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.
Is this what you are justifying?This is where you constantly misunderstand what you're reading.
Saying that someone is "Allowed" to beat someone...
And saying that if someone beats someone... these are the consequences...
Are two different things. I go back and forth, trying to figure out if you are actually unable to understand... or if you just refuse to consider truth b/c it would end your argument and then you'd have nothing to talk about.Beth,
Exodus 21:20-21 NLT
If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.
It says you are allowed to beat your slave with a club as long as they don't die. If the slave dies there is punishment, but it doesn't say what the punishment is. (since the slave is his property).
This Beth is very clear. Show me where in those two sentences it says not to beat a slave with a club?
But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punishedLet me show you the difference.
"If a man should..."
(Actual phrase used)
Let a man...
or
A man should....
or
Thou shalt....
(Not phrases that were used.)
Yes, they were property... that's what a slave is. An act we abhor now, but commonplace during those times. I don't think you read that link, it explains why ppl might have had slaves back then.Oh Beth, If a man beats his slave with a club no punishment will happen unless the slave dies. No punishment, no punishment, no punishment = it's okay, it's okay.
Not that difficult is it?
Are you aware that one could sell their children into slavery? Are you aware you could buy slaves? Are you aware you are justifying slavery?
Sell your children. BTW, this is something that still happens today. Can you imagine? Are you going to tell me it's okay to sell your children into slavery because you're behind on the rent?sigh*
Ok radman. Im advocating slavery.
Anyway, try reading that link carefully and see if you can gain any understanding out of it.
As I've said, I don't like the whole cyclical argument thing and we are once again at that point so Ill let you chat with the others now.Once again you are afraid to face the truth.
You claim the bible to be the only truth and then you say you are against slavery or are you saying it's okay to have slaves as long as we don't steal them. It's okay to buy a child from a father?
Is that the truth Beth?
Yes, commonplace at those times, not now. In other words, it took human ideas and laws to change how people behaved back then. It wasn't your God or your Bible that made those changes, it was men of reason and understanding that had to fight against men who believed in God and believed what the Bible said about slavery.
Thank you for answering Radman for me.
If you look back thru out time, it was men of God who caused God's will to be brought to fruition. Moses delivered the Israelites. Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves and Martin Luther King Jr. brought equality.
I don't believe God's done yet. He's preparing us for Heaven. My daughter goes to a multi racial school. When you look out at the kids, you will see a pretty even mix of African American and white as well as Jamaican, Asian, American Indian, Indian... I mean this school is just a beautiful melting pot. When ppl visit and see the love these kids have for God and each other, they can barely hold back the tears... that's because we were meant for more than this. We were created for Heaven. In Heaven there will be every tribe and every tongue and no man will be slave or master, b/c we will not go by man's laws there, but things will be as God desires.Hence, the reason we had widespread slavery and why those same men of God started a war to make sure they would keep their slaves, but of course, they lost that war and men of reason came along and freed the slaves from the religious slave masters.
That is a fairy tale.
Yes, God is done, His lack of doing anything about slavery shows that in spades. Reason, rationale and responsibility have now taken the place of God.So... are you saying the North lost the Civil war cause I can't tell what youre saying here.
So when I brought up Lincoln, the only one I guess you're willing to acknowledge, and pointed out that he was a man of God and that he brought slavery to an end, and you said it was the men of God that lost the war, you ... kinda went south on me? Im assuming, just b/c if I say black you'll say white, so if I say Lincoln was a godly northerner... you would say it was the godly southerners who lost the war... again, Im assuming cause you weren't clear.
Ok my husband wants to spend time with me and Im spending too much time here... gotta go."In a letter dated February 4, 1866, William Herndon wrote that:
Mr. Lincoln’s religion is too well known to me to allow of even a shadow of a doubt; he is or was a Theist & a Rationalist, denying all extraordinary - supernatural inspiration or revelation. At one time in his life, to say the least, he was an elevated Pantheist, doubting the immortality of the soul as the Christian world understands that term. He believed that the soul lost its identity and was immortal as a force. Subsequent to this he rose to the belief of a God, and this is all the change he ever underwent. I speak knowing what I say. ""The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my profession. " Abraham Lincoln
What does that have to do with with selling our children as slaves, you know like says is okay to do in the bible?
Just like it is in the Bible?
Every religion with a long history has a shameful past. As, in fact, does any entity at all with a long history.
Mormons, on the other hand, are just people like everyone else. Most of them very nice people.
I am more annoyed about OPs agenda than the Mormon's. They aren't here pushing theirs in my face every month or so.They do knock on doors and attempt to control people with lies. They go as far as saying they can become Gods in heaven, on par with God the father. But I guess it's no different than the others.
This week people have knocked on my door demanding candy and threatening to harass me if I don't give it to them. Life is full of trials. And yet somehow I survive, atheism intact.
LOL Gotta love that answer; it happened to me, too. All sorts of horrific creatures threatening me!
Not sure if you watched the video, but they did show that the Mormons are going to avenge the killing of their prophets against the US sometime in the future and eventually take over civil government with their own government.
The Mormons think a lot of silly things IMHO. But thinking they will actually do any of that is even sillier.
Perhaps, but thinking the religiously delusional won't do anything dangerous is not as silly as you make it considering what they've done and continue to do.
Maybe, it was silly to think the religiously delusional might fly commercial airliners into skyscrapers?Hi, Mormon guy here. You know, when I'm not plotting the overthrow of the US government I like to spend my evenings with the wife and kids teaching them the value of driving airplanes into buildings.
Today I took a few minutes to have a looksey at the anti-Mormon video that PTW posted, when suddenly a question popped into my head. Is it a Christ like attribute to lie to Mormons so you can sneak into their temple and take a secret video of their rituals in order to attempt to make them look weird?Long time.... How is it anti Mormon? He just showed what Mormon do in the temple.. Why is it their fault that the rituals look crazy (which they are.. Speaking from experience)
oun .. I got a question for you. I asked my dad the same question . What happens if you get to heaven and forget the secret hand shake?
Well said, although they do knock on my door just as Rad Man says. But overall, they are little different than any other sect; their scripture contains nonsense, they KNOW it is nonsense and gloss over it in an effort to pretend it isn't there. Much like bible and Koran readers.
Nonsense how?
I know the lds doctrine is crazy but what do you think (well what part stands out to you?)
lol.. but it wasnt a prophet that was willing to give up their daughter it was Lot.. (crazy). genocide? please explain. If your think of what i am thinking let me give you somthing to think about. Say France came to the United states and conquered us and took over Washington D.C. Then the French killed and kicked out the American's. What do you think the rest of the United states would do? We would take our troops and everyone else that calls themselves American and take back D.C. at any cost.
"This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' "
"Therefore it shall be, when the LORD thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget."ok let me give you (my) 2 cents. I don't know if is worth anything but.. the Amalekites were doing human sacrifices worshiping false gods and alot more9look them up for more info. so God said kill them all so these pactices would be die with them. Well if you read the story will will see that they did not kill them all and kept all of the money. what happened next was that what God wanted to die did not. the woman began to share their pratices and the Isrealites comitted them. Just what God did not want. Put your self in God's place (as a father to all of the people) if your kids were being killed and influanced into doing something that would cause them to die. just a thought.
Is your God impotent? Why not do it himself? Instead we have instructions from a leader telling his people to murder.
Ahhhh. Human Sacrifice? Isn't that what Jesus was. You are not making any sense, you're claiming God didn't like them killing there fellow humans and instead of giving them instructions, tells others to kill them all, all so he can set up the ultimate human sacrifice.Hey you answer your on questions. I am just telling you what i have read. That's it. Take it or leave it. Am not making sense you because you have so much anger its blinding you.
Not angry, just perplexed. Notice how you didn't comment on my post, you simply reply with a personal attack and state your remark was just something you read. Attempting to justify the ethics of genocide so you can justify your personal beliefs is what you were attempting to do.
Not angry at all. Just perplexed and bewildered watching people attempt to justify genocide.No just sharing. Not justifying. Just telling you what i read. Don't be sensitive.
Okay, first you tell me this
Which doesn't to me sound like something you just read. You seem to be giving your opinion and your advice.
You then tell me I'm angry and now I'm sensitive and that it was just something you read. My emotional state should be left out of a discussion unless it becomes personal. You've twice made personal accusations of my emotional state while I've done no such thing.
I'm not angry and if I was sensitive I wouldn't be here.
Why would you give an opinion and advice, but not back up your comments as if they were yours??what. Your losing me man. If you want play by your rules... Just comment on the subject. I am thing not to get in a battle with but oboy. Your hostel. You must really hate Christianity.
?what. Your losing me man. If you want to play by the rules.... Just comment on the subject. I am trying not to get in a battle with you but man... Your hostel. You really hate Christianity!!
It appears that Beth and several others subscribe to divine command theory, which means that anything, including murder, that is ordered by God is necessarily good
Unfortunately, this means that they are also unable to speak out against suicide bombers or people who fly planes into buildings except to say that it is their opinion that they are following the wrong God. They also cannot condemn the actions of others like women who believe God told them to drown their children or pray instead of seeking medical help for sick children.As you are well aware, anyone can do anything in the name of God.
The Bible is true and without error, it is the Word of God... therefore when ppl followed God's will, we know it was indeed God's will b/c it is written.
I hope this link will help you all understand better, if you do not.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/notkill.htmlAnd, we have laws against people doing violent things against other people.
Because a book of myths and superstitions told you so. That would be hilarious if it wasn't so disturbing and dangerous.
Reminds me once again of the guy who cut off the head of his fellow bus passenger because he thought God ordered him to. Once on his meds he understood that his God wouldn't order a killing. Beth hasn't figured that out yet.
I like how you say it's personal if someone senses a tone in your posts, but you straight up call ppl obtuse and it' ok. Eh... Im not really offended... just wanted to point it out.
I didn't call you any names. It's personal when someone doesn't respond to the post, but makes a comment about the person.
Tell me, was I wrong? Have you finally figured out that a loving God wouldn't kill Children?Can you understand that by taking lives of future killers He would be saving the lives of future innocent children?
Yes? Ok.
No? Then we have nothing left to talk about. You cannot understand my answer.They why not simply kill the future killers himself? See this is why I asked you specific questions. When do you know the orders are coming from a God?
Would a people, loving God order you to kill?
Would a war monger order his people to kill?
The guy I mentioned on the bus thought the orders were coming from God. Did he sin when he beheaded the young man next to him?I would not accept the word of anyone outside of the Bible, who tells me he was told by God to kill.
God spoke to men directly at that time. We have created a society where He is not welcome... in His own creation, by His own creation. Could He wipe us all out for this disrespect? Yes. Does He show immeasurable patience? He does. I can only answer this so many ways. Im not sure what else you could want from me...
Yes, God may do what He pleases.
Yes, He is a loving God.
Yes, He knows things you and I could never imagine including the heart and mind of every man woman and child.
I can't make my view any clearer. Either pick a new subject or address someone else. I have drawn a boundary, a line in the sand, I hope you can respect that. A loving hubber wouldn't keep pushing.And, you know this for a fact? And, you're perfectly willing to risk others lives on it?
Where's that pail?
He is not a loving God if he tells people to kill other people, that is simply insane.You are under the assumption that the stories of the bible are accurate. What if these story tellers didn't really get the messages to commit genocide and kill women and children from God? It stand to reason that much like the Quran and the Book of Mormon people will lie about things to get there way. All you have are words in a Book and these words have convinced you that a peaceful loving God orders the killings of men women and children just as the words of the Quran convince Muslims of the same.
I'd like to assert to you that no peaceful loving God would order the murder of anyone let alone women and children. He'd do the killing himself. I urge you to look deep inside and honestly ask yourself meaningful questions that will help you stop justifying and condoning genicide and the killing of innocent women and children.
Can you really imagine a peaceful loving God ordering the killing of thousands of toddlers? I doesn't take your belief in God away to understand what stories are.I would not accept the word of anyone outside of the Bible, who tells me he was told by God to kill.
God spoke to men directly at that time. We have created a society where He is not welcome... in His own creation, by His own creation. Could He wipe us all out for this disrespect? Yes. Does He show immeasurable patience? He does. I can only answer this so many ways. Im not sure what else you could want from me...
Yes, God may do what He pleases.
Yes, He is a loving God.
Yes, He knows things you and I could never imagine including the heart and mind of every man woman and child.
I can't make my view any clearer. Either pick a new subject or address someone else. I have drawn a boundary, a line in the sand, I hope you can respect that. A loving hubber wouldn't keep pushing.I understand why you don't want to continue this conversation, but it's a very important conversation to have. There is a little part of your mind that doesn't want you to deal with this and it's shutting me and the conversation out.
A loving hubber would keep pushing someone defending genocide and the killing of innocent children.You have already posted that, hence you are now spamming the forums.
So, in this thread you provide spam while in another thread, you make serious false accusations. All of these are offenses that can get you banned, Beth.
"I would not accept the word of anyone outside of the Bible, who tells me he was told by God to kill."
You might want to re-think that, or at least be very careful how you apply it. You just said that if Jesus showed up and told you God wanted you to kill a modern day Hitler that you would not accept His word. In effect, you have also said that God will never again speak to anyone, or at least anyone that will speak to you.
Because for absolute sure, God is quite capable of either killing men or ordering men to kill men. He has done both many times and, through His other creations, does so on a daily basis today. You have no way of knowing when God might find it advantageous for Joe Blow that you murder Johnny So-and-So in cold blood rather than direct a meteorite to fall on him. Or arrange for a nuke on Johnny's home country. God's ways are inscrutable to mere men and you cannot know the needs of Joe Blow OR God Himself.
While an atheist would be happy making those statements, they don't quite seem to fit my picture of you.You should probably read my "spam". Ive stated my beliefs... Im done. Talk amongst yourselves.
I read your "spam"
I understood your "spam"
Within your belief system, I agree with your "spam". God has reasons we cannot understand for killing people. I not only get that, I fully understand and agree with it.
I question your decision to never listen when someone else tells you the same thing that you just told us.
Note that Beth considers killing others as perfectly acceptable. She can't actually predict the future, but will make sure to kill anyone she deems "future killers" just to make sure.
Where is the pail, I need to vomit again.It's my daughter's 11th bday today... do you want to wish her a happy bday? She's so awesome.
Here's something funny... I was texting the parents of the kids coming to her bday and I somehow, I don't know how... I sent a text to "Dakota's mom." Here's the weird thing... Lily doesn't know a Dakota. I called her school, they don't either. But the weirdest thing of all? Dakota's mom said she'd be there. Ack! Who did I invite to her bday ATM?
Then what? Grab an automatic weapon and go out and murder the lot of them? Is that your answer to dealing with these situations? Violence?
Obviously, your religion has taught you well.I shared that point of view with them once, they were not moved.
What you have is a problem with mankind... the Bible is simply reporting those events. You are godless, no? Have you ever done anything you're ashamed of? Who do you blame in that case? When mankind sins, it is b/c he wills it. (And what verse do you use to support innocent children going to hell?)
Have you even read any of the bible?
"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."God probably didn't know what He was doing... It was probably some kind of fluke. If you could have been their to advise him with your infinite knowledge, He could have done it right.
How many times does it have to be said that you do not know what He knows? You do not have the wisdom, or the ability to see a man's heart or the future of man and mankind. When you do, you can be one of God's advisers seeing as how you are still His creation.So you justify a genocide because it was directed by a loving God rather than look look at it critically.
Would a loving, compassionate God give those orders? NO.
Would someone trying to inspire people to go to war give those orders? YES.
And yes if one has half a brain and a leader tells you that God has instructed you to kill women and children, one would say BS.Well you got it all down. You don't need me here if you're gonna ask and answer your own questions.
You are below par today, Beth, First you let a mob turn you into an accomplice. Now, you cannot even dispatch a few unbelievers.
I cannot believe you showed your face on this thread... you realize you have opened yourself up to a can full of worms so large that I can't even think of a metaphor to match it?
There are no actual people in this thread, Beth.
This is what they call UMD- user matched discourse. Everyone who enters the thread gets a different experience with different dialogue. Everyone is alone with the AI.
That is why it all sounds so familiar. The AI is matching each participants needs and generating an essentially familiar, brain lulling debate.I was literally thinking something along these lines this morning. It's just me alone in a room and the rest is just computer generated... maybe a government thing or darker powers at work... you are very perceptive Mr. Will.
You cannot or will not listen to what Im saying... you just keep spouting off your old rhetoric... when you have grasped what I am trying to tell you, then we've got something worth talking about.
I can grasp what you are saying. Can you answer my questions honestly?
I cannot for the life of me remember what your question was, but without looking let me guess... something along the lines of "How could a good and kind God kill off a race of ppl/support slavery/support the suppression of women's rights/allow children to go hungry?
I have answered all of these *specifically* with verse to back me up... and yet you play the same game over and over. I answer one, you pretend you didn't hear me... you bring up the other... It's a CYCLICAL argument and I have no need to waste my time inside a radman tornado.That's what I thought. You won't answer the question because you don't want to see your answers written before you.
I understand. They are simple yes or no questions, but they must be difficult for you. Carry on then.My friend... you must understand that those kind of tactics, though quite powerful in grade school, lack effectiveness here. Ive said what I had to say... if you really wanted to know what I thought, you'd only have to read back, in any and every religious forum thread Ive ever posted in.
Thx. I have hacked the mainframe and turned a few of the knobs and dials. Soon you will begin to see images that the AI has decided that you most wish to see.
This should help you to escape from the conditioning.
Hey, go away. Beth was going to not answer my questions and you distracted form not doing that. She is like a kid with add in a classroom full of butterflies and I'm trying to keep her focused while you are pointing to the butterflies.
- How many times must we hear you tell us what God knows? Hilarious hypocrisy, Beth. You really know how to put your foot in your mouth over and over and over...
Remember it is not me posting the images. And those who seek to distract you are merely executable programs.
I will be here as a shadow.He sometimes goes naked in the Kremlin just to demonstrate his status.
But look close up and he is as boyish and innocent as any of the unbelievers you trample so cruelly every day.LOL... why are you so funny?
Am I really unkind to the unbelievers? I hope not... Ive baked them all cookies and sent them with a pocket bible... surely that proves what a good person I am.Trample, trample trample. Its not cookies they need...
I am taking this one with me:
'My friend... you must understand that those kind of tactics, though quite powerful in grade school, lack effectiveness...'
lol.It's avoidance. A simple yes or no would have done.
Is taking another life, no matter if it is done in hate or if it is done in mercy, ok?
Yes or no?No. We have laws to prevent such things.
See it's easy.I don't care where they live. Taking another's life is not good. Don't do it.
Is this difficult for you to follow. Do you think only North America has laws against murder?So if you were stranded in the desert and your child had been brutally attacked by wolves... if he was missing appendages and he was slowly dying... bleeding out... tortured and suffering... would you watch him die if you had some way to help him pass mercifully? Im not talking about right or wrong... or what I would do... Im just asking if you see any room for discussion or is it clear cut?
Murder is wrong Beth, I've answered your question. Can you get to mine now?
So you would allow your son to die slowly as opposed to mercifully?
I would try to save my children Beth.
Now, yes or no.
Would a loving, compassionate God order genocide?
Would someone trying to inspire people to go to war order a God sanctioned genocide?You just can't seem to understand the point I am getting at.
A man on this forum recently shared that his father in law was in horrific pain, he was dying of lung cancer and couldn't be saved. He over anesthetized him. It was a mercy killing. Would I do it? No. I believe only God should choose when a man should live or die. If this man were to tell me he'd taken an innocent life, I would assume him to be evil, however, once he shared his insider point of view, I would grow in understanding of why it was done. Does the explanation give me *great* insight? Could I see his father in laws face twisted in pain? Could I see him crying out? Could I see the tears of his wife, children and grand children as they watched him suffer? No. I only have a limited knowledge.
I have tried to make the point over and over again, that you do not know what God knows. You could not see the hearts or the intentions of the ppl God saw fit to end. He created them in the first place... do you think it affected Him less than it does you? Do you care about those ppl? God did, but He knew better... He knew how their actions would affect the lives of the billions and billions of other earthlings at that time, all the way to today. You do not have that knowledge, so you are not fit to judge. To say that you are not fit to judge God's actions is a given. We are the pot, He is the potter. Until you grasp that, you will never understand God or the bible.Hilarious, you keep telling others they don't know what God knows and then turn around in the very same paragraph trying to tell us all what God knows. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
I don't know what God knows, which is why I don't run around deciding who should live and die. What did you miss? (Thank you for always calling me hilarious.
)Right, Im saying God has infinite knowledge, I know that b/c Ive read the Bible. I know a lot of things about God b/c Ive read the Bible. You've heard the word omniscient, right?
To clarify, there is a difference between knowing God's attributes and knowing what He knows.What you don't seem to understand is that the very same things you know about God, according to the Bible is exactly the same as everyone else knows. Funny, how you don't seem to get that and are compelled to tell others they don't know what God knows.
So you know God is omniscient? That's awesome. We've made a lot of progress here.
The Bible is a book of myths and superstitions, Beth.
It appears you know a lot less than others about the Bible. I doubt you've even read it.
lol Once again, if you say it, it must be true, eh?
Ill give you this, I haven't read it daily in a few years, much to my detriment.Not really, you are the one showing an abysmal understanding of the teachings of Christ, and I'm not the only one who has told you that.
I see we have taken a big left turn... that's ok. I am gonna give you a big wide open door here ATM, how do I lack understanding the teachings of Christ. I had a lot of good teachers over the years, but I had not expected you to be one of them.
- ...whatever that means.
Many of us have been showing you that all along, but I understand you have chosen to ignore or deny that despite your behavior to the contrary.
Your teachers obviously knew very little themselves if your understanding is a result of their teachings.Oops, you just repeated yourself... just restating that you and others had stated something in the past... what I asked you was how I lack understanding the teachings of Christ.
That has been shown to you in several threads, you know that already, you responded in those threads.
Say it again.
(Remember, this is not bullying, me continuously telling you what and when to answer as I demand.)
Say it again.I know you're not bullying, that is obvious based on the definition of bullying and the fact that it is feasibly and physically impossible to bully someone on an internet forum.
So, what you're admitting is that you actually chose to deny reading and responding to the posts that showed you do not follows the teachings of Christ?Repeat your answer, I do not know your answer. Repeat it please.
The answer is that you have admitted to ignoring the posts YOU yourself responded to in regards to being shown you do not follow the teachings of Christ.
Now, yes or no.
Would a loving, compassionate God order genocide?
Would someone trying to inspire people to go to war order a God sanctioned genocide?
I'll help you out here, a loving, compassionate God wouldn't order a genocide, he'd do his killing himself as to not cause trauma to his beloved people.
Would you kill if God asked?Oh my word, you can really be thick. I wont be bullied into playing your sad little game. Ive answered all your questions, but you cannot understand... therefore, enough. I am not here for your entertainment. If you can't understand English... I can't help you.
Show me where you answered yes or no to any of these questions. You've asked me some and I answered them, but you've not answered any of my questions. Wilderness did and he answered them just as I have.
Are you afraid your God won't give you the right words?I am wondering why you are unable to understand the words that I have spoken. The ENTIRE point Ive been trying to make is that it is not a yes or no question. PLEASE read my answers to you. My full and complete answer to you is written in black and white. I know you can understand it... you just pretend you can't b/c you use ploys and tactics instead of just communicating open and honestly.
Come on, you know you are not being honest with yourself right? Wilderness answered with a yes or a no. You didn't answer, you asked me questions which I answered with a yes or no. You already have your answer as do I.
No loving compassionate God would ask his loved ones to commit genocide. We both know that.
People attempting to manipulate people for reasons of war would in fact tell people that God has directed them to murder people. Crap George W Bush is a prime example.Then, your answer must be yes and no. In other words, you believe that God has every right to command people to commit genocide when it suits His purpose. It's in the Bible so you must believe it to be true.
That would mean the answer to whether or not God is loving is also yes and no. In other words, He can behave like a hateful, vengeful tyrant when it suits His purpose.
This is where many of us have a problem worshiping a God who behaves in this manner. We wouldn't worship Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot for making people commit genocide, so why would we worship a God?Many have a problem worshipping such a god, yes, but many don't.
Some will ignore the evil side of their god. Some will pretend it doesn't exist. Some, as seen here, will talk around and around it in an effort to never confront it. Beth knows it is there and she doesn't ignore it; Instead she makes excuses for it while refusing to ever consider the morality of it.
And some, the worst reaction of all, I think, are OK with it. Man is naught but a thing completely owned by their god and subject both ethically and physically to the whims of that god. Genocide is no different than using weed killer on your own yard.Seeing that your best friend is a bully, extortionist and murderer and joining him. You are quite right.
And, therein lies the problem. If gods don't even exist, then men are perpetrating genocide on other men, while those who worship that god have no problem with that genocide because they believe it's for a purpose.
It is this type of behavior that is being taught to people, which can and does have an extremely dangerous effect on mankind and our ability to unite and make peace. All it takes is a handful of mentally disturbed believers to take those teachings and use them to commit all kinds of atrocities, keeping everyone inculcated with the delusion that it's all part of Gods plan.That is precisely what I've been trying to help Beth recognize with my questions that she won't answer.
You've ignored my answer repeatedly. God may do as He chooses. He brought you into this world, He can take you out of it. He's a lot like Bill Cosby in that sense.
Yes, I understand you will justify murder, killing, genocide and any other atrocity committed in the name of your God. That is just one more reason why I wholeheartedly reject your religion.
Are you okay with anyone telling you that they killed because God told them to? Or what if someone tells you god spoke to them and asked for your help in killing? What if the voice of God in your head tells you to kill? Can you not question the orders?
Sorry Beth, but if you feel God made us then you must also understand he make us able to question even him. Do you think he would give us instructions and then instruct us to break them? Do you think he can't do his own dirty work?From the link:
"The KJV (King James Version) was translated in the early 17th century using an archaic form of modern English. In the last 400 years, the English language has changed significantly. Unfortunately, the vast majority of those who read the KJV (both believers and unbelievers) are unqualified to know what the text means in many instances because of word meaning changes."Okay that's deeply disturbing. We can kill if the killing has cause? We can kill children if we have cause? We can kill and entire group of people and remain without sin if we have cause? The cause for killing children is because their parents are dangerous they will be dangerous. How old Beth? 1, 3, 5?
Time to start thinking for yourself. Do you think Hitler used the same line of thinking?
Of course - there is absolutely nothing new about that.
There is no chance that the king and other nobles that unleashed the crusades believed a god was sending them. Some undoubtedly did, and some of the priesthood giving their blessing as well, but an awful lot did not.
The puritan witch killers (land grabbers) were much the same. Was there any chance that those accusing, and judging, their neighbors as witches, and getting the land after execution, believed god told them to do it? Does anyone think that a group of Puritan men actually thought that God told them to intimately examine the bodies of comely young women for witches marks?
Genocide was no different. Few if any of the men at the top believed god told them to murder. Leave that silly belief to the cannon fodder in the ranks, the ones doing the dirty work.
If you cannot understand my meaning, feel free not to interpret it. Thank you.
I believe God has the right and having no guile in Him, is also the only one qualified to make a choice like that. I believe anyone who questions His judgement lacks understanding of Who God is.
Of course you do, that is why people kill other people in the name of your God, not the your God has anything to do with it, but that fact that is what your religion teaches you and them, that genocide is perfectly acceptable. I'm sure you would happily commit genocide in your God's name.
Or, those who say genocide is perfectly acceptable have no morals or ethics and are dangerous.
Beth, it is disingenuous to use the word, "bullied" when you aren't being bullied by anyone.
Notice that Beth is forced to conjure up impossible scenarios in order to defend her beliefs. Hilarious.
Then it doesn't concern me. I am not the world's policeman even if my country thinks I am, and I am not my brother's keep even if my neighbor thinks I am.
You missed the point. He said "we have laws". I was saying, yes... he and I do, but what about other countries... they do not have the same laws we do so he cannot cut out the rest of the worlds population if that is his argument.
You're right - in butting into the middle of the conversation I seem to have completely missed the point.
Sorry about that!I mentioned the laws as a way of show how unethical it is to kill someone. We had to pass laws to prevent it from happening and to punish those who do it. And again, find me a country that doesn't have laws preventing murder?
I see you have confused euthanasia with murder. What are the laws about murder in those countries?
See murder is when someone want to live and you take there life away.
Euthanasia is when someone wants to die, usually because of a quality of life issue and they are helped to commit suicide.
Now, yes or no.
Would a loving, compassionate God order genocide?
Would someone trying to inspire people to go to war order a God sanctioned genocide?May I try again?
"Would a loving, compassionate God order genocide?
No, but I cannot think of a single god whose actions described love OR compassion. Gods throughout history have been quite ready to order genocide any time their adherents were capable of it.
"Would someone trying to inspire people to go to war order a God sanctioned genocide?"
?? Of course - it has been done over and over. Again, whenever the people are capable of it the high priests are quick to take advantage. Certain "someone's", for instance, tell us that Abrahams god sanctions the murder of all Americans. Others in the past have ordered the elimination of all Muslims in the Crusades (it failed there, but they tried!). There is certainly nothing new about telling the populace that personal information is that God wants the people to kill.
Now, yes or no.
Would a loving, compassionate God order genocide?
Would someone trying to inspire people to go to war order a God sanctioned genocide?Beth will now show us a country in the world in which murder is legal.
Sorry Rad Man, you seem like a nice young man and I am glad Beth is so patient with you.
I will leave the two of you alone now. Goodnight.
This ultra-aggressive secularism is so offensive.
It comes directly out of 9/11.
People who somehow imagined they were liberals now think that it is fine to attack religion.
People who imagined that they were humanists suddenly find that they can express contempt for the vast majority of humanity.
To me, attacking someone's religion means attacking their identity and most of the things that they most love.
Beth's patience is remarkable.It's official. I want to marry you when I grow up.
That is entirely false, attacking religions is not attacking any person.
So calling CG stupid, a dozen times is attacking her religion?
I never called her stupid, not once. Why are you making up lies, Beth?
I thought I was the one with the short memory?
Your quotes to CG:
"Have you even read any of other scripture from other religions? It would appear you haven't, hence you can't make any intelligent comments regarding any differences.
You actually have no idea what you're talking about and just making up stuff as you go along. Hilarious.
Saying that merely makes you look incredibly ignorant and deluded or just something a small child would say in a kindergarten playground.
Sorry, but the Bible does not talk about the brain or how it works because no one back then knew anything about it. You should try reading books sometime.
You obviously have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Yes, you are talking nonsensical gibberish.
The difference is that you don't use yours. (brains)
That is a terrible score, a complete fail. It clearly shows you're critical thinking skills are abysmal and your posts here confirm that.
Wow! How does someone like this actually function in society?"Yes, you are lying, Beth. Nowhere did I call her stupid. Retract your accusation immediately.
Um... stupid is the same as saying someone looks ignorant, deluded, childlike, unable to perform in society, that they don't use their brains and they only speak non nonsensical gibberish.
Ignorant and deluded do not equate stupid. There are many things one can be ignorant of and still be intelligent.
Beth, you claimed I called her stupid, you must retract that accusation immediately because I did no such thing.
So, what you're claiming is that criticizing religions is the same thing as flying commercial airliners into skyscrapers? Criticizing is the same as mass murder? Seriously, Will?
Ultra-aggressive secularism is just another form of extremism.
You have equated secularism to mass murder, Will. Are you serious?
Ultra-aggressive secularism is just another form of extremism.
Ultra-aggressive secularism is also the new racism for some people. Not you, ATM, obviously. I can see that you are a man of reason.
But Dawkins has given people who were struggling to find a group to hate, in the age of PC, a new set of targets. Don't you agree?Racism, there is another word you don't understand.
So, now secularism is equivalent to mass murder and racism. I cannot believe you're actually saying those things.
I think for some people who take their anti-religious dislikes to an extreme, it really is just that the religious provide a convenient group to attack.
I know some people who have had a religious background that included a traumatic element. People like that can find it very difficult to leave the subject alone.
They have my sympathy as long they can see that it is a problem in their life and not something they should act out by persecuting others.Are you being persecuted? Do you not know there are laws against persecution? Seriously, Will, the things you're saying here are simply not true at all. What you're saying about secularism is very nasty and entirely false. Why are you compelled to say such things?
Ahh, it's extremism to not want any church or Religion to control the government?
What has this got to do with anything in this discussion?
Oh, you are unaware of what the words you use mean.
Oh wow. lol
He's like a master of words... really?You can only say this because you have never met my stomach or my wrinkles, lol.
Anyway, time for the old man to sleep.
The great thing about ATM and Rad Man is that they keep repeating themselves at regular, (rather short) intervals so I can easily pick this up again tomorrow.
So can you, of course. Nothing wrong with taking a break...
Goodnight, all.
You know, this thread is awful busy to be run by a computer. Is the computer bored?
- Beth37posted 10 years ago
0In Lincolns early years, he attended a Baptist church with his dad, but in his college years, as with many kids finding their way, he turned a little skeptical. This quote is from his skeptic years:
“I have never spoken with intentional disrespect of religion in general, or of any denomination of Christians in particular, I still do not think any man has the right thus to insult the feelings, and injure the morals, of the community in which he may live.” (Nothing to do with the subject, just thought I'd throw that in there.)
After his son died, his faith in God seemed to become increasingly important to him.
In 1862 Lincoln was preparing to release the Emancipation Proclamation and told his staff that it was time. He said he had promised his Maker and that “God had decided this question in favor of the slaves.”
In his later years an old college friend teased him for reading his Bible and Lincoln's response to him was this: “take all of this Book upon reason that you can, and the balance on faith, and you will live and die a happier man.”Are you still trying to prove it was Christianity that freed the slaves?
Tell that to the generations who had no freedom. The slave owners had the bible on there side.
-
"Over the decades and with the growth of slavery throughout the South, Baptist and Methodist ministers gradually changed their messages to accommodate the institution. After 1830, white Southerners argued for the compatibility of Christianity and slavery, with a multitude of both Old and New Testament citations.
Southern slaves generally attended their masters’ white churches, and often outnumbered the white congregants. They were usually permitted only to sit in the back or in the balcony. They listened to white preachers, who emphasized the appropriate behavior of slaves to keep in their place, and acknowledged the slave’s identity as both person and property." J. William Frost, Christianity: A Social and Cultural History
"His private secretary, Col. John G. Nicolay. In a letter dated May 27, 1865, Colonel Nicolay says: "Mr. Lincoln did not, to my knowledge, in any way change his religious ideas, opinions, or beliefs from the time he left Springfield to the day of his death."
"His lifelong friend and executor, Judge David Davis, affirmed the same: "He had no faith in the Christian sense of the term."
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