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How Do You Conclude that There is No 'Light-switch' Inside a Dark Room

  1. God shet profile image60
    God shetposted 2 years ago

    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/11986389_f1024.jpg

    Almost every atheist has the awareness of a (very interesting)  silver-bullet. Whenever anyone says: I know God exists ~ they jump up from their seat and proclaim this, with a domineering pose:  "What is your evidence?"  If you answer: "I have no evidence to prove that God exists", then you are certain to get back this answer: "Nothing exists that you can not provide any evidence for".


    Now here is the thing:  Most atheists are actually 'unwilling' to discover God: it is possible to discover the existence of God within one's lifetime. But that requires study, discipline, meditation, and an unbiased mind that is willing to accept that the existence of God is a valid possibility. But deep in the hearts of atheists lies a secret hatred for God. They can't even tolerate the idea that God might indeed be a possibility.


    They are led to stand before the doorstep of a dark room ~ and encouraged to discover if there is any light-switch ('God') inside it. The only way to find out ~ is to enter the light-less room, and physically search for the switch on the wall (using one's arms).

    But instead of doing that: most atheists proclaim this from the doorstep, with a domineering pose:  "We are convinced, there is no light-switch inside that dark room!".

    1. Jomine Jose profile image80
      Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      What were the atheists thinking,  god indeed exists.
      Here he is in all his glory, the one and only Quetzalcoatl.

      http://s2.hubimg.com/u/11986511.jpg

      1. God shet profile image60
        God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        This is the problem ~ that atheists tend to form conclusions ~ before (unbiasedly) investigating a subject.

        1. Jomine Jose profile image80
          Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          This is the problem ~ that theists tend to form conclusions ~ before (unbiasedly) investigating a subject.
          Most theists proclaim this from the doorstep, with a domineering pose:  "We are convinced, there is no light-switch inside that dark room if the switch is not to our liking!"
          Most theists are actually 'unwilling' to discover Quetzalcoatl: it is possible to discover the existence of Quetzalcoatl within one's lifetime. But that requires study, discipline, meditation, and an unbiased mind that is willing to accept that the existence of Quetzalcoatl is a valid possibility.

          1. God shet profile image60
            God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            If you mean the 'God of religion' ~ when you say 'Quetzalcoatl':  you are making some sense. But at the same time, I must say that it's a fact that we might discover bigger, and more powerful Quetzalcoatls', if we turn on the television.


            (The original argument stays.)

            1. Jomine Jose profile image80
              Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Can't even tolerate the idea that Quetzalcoatl might indeed be a possibility?

              1. God shet profile image60
                God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                I don't need to 'tolerate' that idea.

                1. wilderness profile image94
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  But the atheist should "tolerate" and even embrace the concept of your god?  How does that work?

                  1. God shet profile image60
                    God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    That's the point. Atheists take that pressure unnecessarily.

                2. Jomine Jose profile image80
                  Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  Only unwilling to discover Quetzalcoatl?

            2. wilderness profile image94
              wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              Jomine has a point; the common reaction of the theist is to leave the door closed and proclaim that the switch inside (known to be there because all rooms have a switch) is the older toggle style and not the newer (and better) decora style.  No research or testing necessary - both that the switch is there AND that it is the toggle style is somehow known without ever looking.  They even somehow know that it is cream colored and not white, brown, red or black, even though all are common colors for light switches.

              1. God shet profile image60
                God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                You repeatedly mix religion with spirituality.

                1. wilderness profile image94
                  wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  You're the one that started the thread with the analogy of a light switch and a god, not I.

                  Nevertheless, the belief in a god and spirituality are identical in this case - that both are belief without knowledge, just as the type, placement and even existence of the light switch is without ever looking.

                  1. God shet profile image60
                    God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    "Nevertheless, the belief in a god and spirituality are identical in this case - that both are belief without knowledge"


                    ~ To you. Not for everyone.

    2. wilderness profile image94
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      If you find the light switch, you can take your friend, hold them by the hand and put their hand on the switch.  Now they found the switch, too.

      But if you can't find the switch in spite of knowing exactly where it should be, the only conclusion is either that it isn't there or isn't what you think of as a light switch.  It could be a sensor built into the ceiling, it could be a pressure mat on the floor, it could be a fuse in the fuse box.  If you can find the fuse box with a burned out fuse (dead god) you can replace it (the analogy breaks down a little here ( smile ).  It is even possible that there is no light at all in the room even though you don't understand why there would be a room with no light.  But there is nothing in the room you would have classified as a "light switch" as you have carefully swept the entire wall area with your hands.

      Back to the god (light switch).  If you can find the god you can show it to others.  If the god is the sensor in the ceiling you can show others what it does by entering the room with them repeatedly and observing the effect of your action.  If a pressure mat you can do the same.  You can replace the light bulb and/or check voltage in the socket to verify the light fixture works and has power.  You could even trace wires to find out where they go, learning how the electrical system works and why.  There lots of things you can do to figure out what is going on.

      What you cannot (reasonably) do is declare that because there is a light bulb in the ceiling that there has to be a light switch somewhere.  You haven't a clue how or why the room came to be, but your extremely limited knowledge of lights is that all the ones you know of require a switch and that is insufficient to declare there has to be a switch.  You don't understand the details of an electrical system, don't know how or why anything works and thus cannot deduce that this specific room must have a switch.

      But that is exactly what a believer typically does.  They don't understand how or why the universe behaves the way it does but nevertheless conclude there is a god doing it.  They don't test the actions attributed to that god to verify that the events they see are caused by a god.  They cannot sense the god with any of the 5 senses, only a "feeling" that it is there, but don't test that "feeling" for veracity either. 

      Bottom line: if you don't know if there is a light switch, and strongly wish to know you will tear the room apart piece by piece until you know if there is a switch.  You will study electrical systems until you know what might be a switch and what is not.  You will not look into the dark and decide there is a switch, what that switch looks like or what/how it works but instead make conclusions based on all the knowledge you can gather.  And you don't read a treatise written thousands of years ago on what lightning is and decide that you know all about electricity.

      1. God shet profile image60
        God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        "If you find the light switch, you can take your friend, hold them by the hand and put their hand on the switch.  Now they found the switch, too."


        ~ I know many atheists who are unwilling to let anyone guide them to the 'light-switch'.

        1. wilderness profile image94
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          And yet...the vast majority of atheists have been guided.  With an unsupported statement that "God exists and made you".  They never have their hand put on the switch, they never even get to see the light turned on by a god; just an unknown force with never an indication it was done by a god.

          1. God shet profile image60
            God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            What you have stated ~ is partially true.

    3. profile image0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      I've spend my youth in that room, so I studied it and sound the switch to be an illusion. You see you need to walk across the room to get to the switch, but to do so you need to step on the pressure sensitive switch on the floor under the light switch. It's simply an illusion.

      1. wilderness profile image94
        wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        I think I make better gods than you do - I put a motion sensor in the ceiling.  No need to even enter; just open the door and the light comes on.  If you enter and go to sleep, the light goes off to save energy.

        1. profile image0
          Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          Great Idea. It would take an electrician to come up with and install that. It's perfect because when others enter that think it's magic.

          1. wilderness profile image94
            wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            Magic.  Does that make me a god?  I've been told I'm very spiritual (although I can't imagine why) and that we're either ALL gods or at least have god within us.

            Never put one of those in my house (too much trouble), but have replaced the laundry room switch with an occupancy sensor because the light never got turned off.  And rigged up a timer to close the garage door after 10 minutes because the kids would never close it.  That one worked great until we left one day with something in the path of the door - it closed, hit the obstruction and reopened only to repeat 10 minutes later all day long.  Made the neighbors a little nervous.

    4. Don W profile image84
      Don Wposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Strawman. Many atheists are not saying "Nothing exists that you can not provide any evidence for"

      They are actually saying "It is not reasonable to believe in, live your life by, and try to convince others of, something that you can not provide any evidence for".

      1. biblicaliving profile image83
        biblicalivingposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        This is a very strong point. Perhaps Religion must be taken on Faith and the perception of the "light switch" removed. It is a mistake to think that logical tricks, emotional responses and ancient texts prove anything. The universe as well as the human experience is vast and rather indifferent to individual nuances.

      2. God shet profile image60
        God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        'They are actually saying "It is not reasonable to believe in, live your life by, and try to convince others of, something that you can not provide any evidence for".'



        The point is what type of evidence are you talking about? Do we need to provide evidence to others to satisfy ourselves that 'something' exists? And ~ most importantly ~ are every type of evidence communicable to others?


        We all face situations in life where we may know something to be perfectly true, that something exists - but, we may not 'prove' it to others. There are innumerable instances where we face this type of situations.


        Things like love, hatred, 'may' not be shown and proved to others who are not related to the connecting environments (i.e., they never met the persons involved in the love and hate relationships, before. But, that love and that hatred nevertheless exists, and are known to the persons involved. You can't prove to others things and events that came across or happened to you, and while you were the only witness. But you have the knowledge of those things and events. You may not prove to a child if a cunning adult is cheating and fooling him/her. But you might have the full knowledge of it. The list goes on.

        1. Jomine Jose profile image80
          Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          So your god is like love. Quetzalcoatl is not anybody's imagination.  He indeed exists.

          1. God shet profile image60
            God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

            including the 'thing' that loves

            1. Jomine Jose profile image80
              Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

              So humans are god?

              1. Kathryn L Hill profile image82
                Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                - yes. Humans are gods because they are part of God.  Jesus said, Know ye not that ye are gods?
                Furthermore, The image we are is the invisible aspect of God…Spirit.
                Love is an aspect of Spirit.
                ...according to credible sources which make sense to me.

                1. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  All mammals love, what's your point? If they didn't they wouldn't protect their babies.

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image82
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    And love of the mother comes from nature and nature comes from mother nature and mother nature comes from father God, creator of all on an invisible level which slows down on the visible level.
                    But don't focus on these words. It is beyond human intellect.

                    Reality can be perceived with one's third eye of intuition.

                    If you wish to argue with me I will restate it until I am blue in the face... because to me, this is the truth. In my mind there is no doubt about it.

                    Of course, you are free to disagree, but I will never buy your argument, Rad man.


                    Just To Let You Know.

                2. Jomine Jose profile image80
                  Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                  So your arm is you?
                  We belong to which part of god, which are the other parts?
                  god originated after as?

                  Invisible and image won't go together, we are not transparent either. Spirit is also a concept.

                  What source?

                  1. Kathryn L Hill profile image82
                    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

                    Spirit is invisible. It is visible as it manifests in the body which it incarnated into, in each of us.

                    We are the image of God... which by nature is invisible... as we are invisible, except that we, as individual portions of Spirit, are "wearing" bodies.

                    Obviously.

  2. Kathryn L Hill profile image82
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    Q. Who is the happiest in a dark room?

    A. The atheist who is content to sit there in the dark.
    B. The the theist who searches the walls in the dark for the light switch?
    C. The human secularist while praising his own and other's ability to sit patiently in the dark.
    D. The agnostic who will also sits patiently in the dark, but secretly cheers on the theist who is doing all the hard work by feeling over every inch of wall for that damn light switch.

    My answer:

    B.

    1. wilderness profile image94
      wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      You left one out:

      E.  The person, atheist, agnostic or theist, who learns how to make light and does so in the room.

      My money is on E; they've not only got the light they want but can do it again and again as necessary.

      1. Kathryn L Hill profile image82
        Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        Brilliant! big_smile and I'm sure the original poster would agree.
        Peace cool
        We all choose E !

        1. wilderness profile image94
          wildernessposted 2 years ago in reply to this

          lol

      2. God shet profile image60
        God shetposted 2 years ago in reply to this

        "E.  The person, atheist, agnostic or theist, who learns how to make light and does so in the room."


        ~ Good luck conducting any experiment inside the lightless room.

    2. profile image0
      Rad Manposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      Sure, he may in fact be happier for a while. He thinks he's immortal. Ignorance is bliss.

  3. psycheskinner profile image79
    psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago

    You do in fact have to "tolerate" people who see the world differently be they atheist, Satanist, Jedi or gnome worshippers. Because if there is a God who gets to tell people what to do and what to believe, one thing is certain, it isn't you. And whoever that God that might exist might be, they seem to support in free will a lot more than you do given the world of diversity they seem to have created. Even if we are wrong we have the right to be wrong and you have the duty to bother tolerate and respect that.

  4. DzyMsLizzy profile image90
    DzyMsLizzyposted 2 years ago

    "But deep in the hearts of atheists lies a secret hatred for God. They can't even tolerate the idea that God might indeed be a possibility."

    The very core of that argument is flawed.  One cannot hate something in which one does not believe.  It is simply a non-issue.  Nor are atheists "satan worshippers," since, in the Christian tradition, satan is a 'fallen angel,' or, if you will "the dark side" of any god; they are two sides of the same coin. You will probably find that most atheists do not believe in any devil, either.

    It is not a matter of "refusing to believe," or refusing to be educated, or to search.  Indeed, the opposite is often true.  Many atheists were former believers, some of them quite devout.  Their own education, research, and life experiences are what led them to the position of disbelief.

    And as psycheskinner pointed out, it is only our individual "job" and place to believe what we want, or to not believe; it is not our "job" to try and convince or force others into our own belief system. 
    We can certainly share our views, if asked,, but otherwise, simply "agree to disagree" and get on with our own lives, as no one elses' choices, (so long as they are inflicting harm on no one), are any of our business.

  5. psycheskinner profile image79
    psycheskinnerposted 2 years ago

    My third eye tells me to honor other people's truths because we are brothers and sisters of equal ethical worth.

  6. Kathryn L Hill profile image82
    Kathryn L Hillposted 2 years ago

    When we are on the astral plane we are invisible. We incarnate into the body at the moment of conception. When the desire is strong enough, we perceive a spark of light which occurs when the ovum and sperm unite. Souls fight to enter the union and the one with the strongest intention makes it. Once inside the new beginning of a human body, the invisible soul directs its development according to the blue print of light which the soul carries with it from lifetime to lifetime. Complete incarnation takes nine months and six years. I have heard our faces do not change much from lifetime to life time.
    We do not remember our previous lifetimes, but tendencies will predominate and explains early genius in children, such as Mozart.

    Isn't that interesting?

    1. Jomine Jose profile image80
      Jomine Joseposted 2 years ago in reply to this

      So what happens to identical twins and conjoined twins? Do they got only one soul?
      Vanishing twins?
      Isn't that interesting?

 
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