Why would god create atheists who can't be convinced of his existence?
God did not create atheists; they deny His existence because of their own willful ignorance and spiritual blindness.
But atheists don't deny anythings existence. A lack of belief is not the positive assertion that it does not exist. I would also like to see you expand on atheist willful ignorance.
The definition of "atheism" is "No God." To me, that means that they believe that He does not exist. Let me rephrase myself. Atheists know the Creator exists, but they willfully suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18-23).
HAHA that is the most illogical statement I've ever heard. I hate to hurt your feelings, but that's far from the truth, glynch1.
I'm sorry, but an atheist means without God. We have failed to be convinced, and despite what you interpret Romans to mean, we absolutely do not "know" god exists and reject him any more than you "know" Allah exists and reject being a Muslim.
So what if a baby was never exposed to any holy books or forced indoctrination? What if that baby grew up to never believe in things that he has never known to exist? Would that be willful ignorance and spiritual blindness.
The actual term--atheist--means "no god." The alpha-privative does not mean "without."
THEISM and ATHEISM are about BELIEF in God. Not God verses no God. Theism is a belief in a God or gods. Conversely, Atheism is a lack of belief in a God or gods. Your definition is COMPLETELY incorrect. Atheist is not defined as NO GOD!
And just what do you call someone who believes God does not nor cannot exist?
A gnostic atheist. There are actually names for these things.
So you weren't being genuine when you claimed, "atheists don't deny anythings existence."
Atheist says, there is no God. I don't see him, I don't feel him. He does not exist. If someone use this logic, Julie McFarland and the atheists does not exist because someone does not see them nor touch them.
1. That's a ridiculous statement. People see me, hear me and touch me all the time. You're talking to me right now. 2. Some gnostic atheists say that no God exists. Most atheists, including me, do not say that. We lack belief. Period.
What kind of atheist you are? You said gnostic atheists say no God exist. You added, you lack belief in God or in God's existence. Therefore lacking in belief does not mean there is no God. So God exist whether there is belief or unbelief.
Sure, as long as you believe that saying something exists means that it exists by default. You have not demonstrated a claim in any God to be true, aside from just asserting that it is. I don't believe you as there's no reason to.
You said most atheist including you don't say that no God exist as some gnostic atheist do. In a clear statement, God exist base in your words. You just ignore or deny him because you need visible and tangible proof.
Believing there may be a possibility of something does not mean that something necessarily exists. You don't seem to understand that not accepting something isn't an affirmation of existence or non existence. It's just a lack of belief in it.
I don't believe mystical wish granting dragoons exist. By default then, according to you Ponce, they exist and I just ignore them.
Do you believe mystical wish granting dragoons exist? If not you ignore and deny them, and that's just silly to do...
Why atheist ask proof of God's existence? In the first place they already denied it.
Ponce, if I told you a flying goblin that poops gold was my god who told me i can tell you what your beliefs are, and because they don't match up with my obviously correct beliefs you will suffer eternally as fact, would ask me 4 proof?
You guys seriously have to stop arguing/discussing against this guy...You won't get anywhere. His mind is blocked away. He won't ask questions and will not listen to reason...obviously.
Guys, I'm asking a legitimate question, why atheists ask proof of God's existence. Your answer is a curve line not a straight line. And what can I get also to all of you? A curve mind?
My question was rather straightforward Ponce, and your answer will lead me into showing you why any atheist would ask for proof.
I'll tell you, Ponce, because Atheists don't "see" proof. Then you'll say, "Atheists avoid seeing proof." Then I ask you, where's your proof of God's existence?
No eyes could see God because God is a spirit, I'm not forcing you to believe it. His creation is the only visible proof of his existence because no logical mind will deny that creation has no creator. I'm not forcing you to believe it also.
Ponce, I would imagine that also applies to Hindus, Muslims, Vikings, Greeks, and just about any other group that says life is proof of their god, right? Or are you saying that they are all wrong and only you are right?
gods are not God, the creator. If you believe in their claims to deny the real creator you no longer be an atheist but a believer of gods. the gods exist only in man's mind but the real God lives in the heart of his people.
How do we know you're right and they aren't? They also believe in a God. They believe in a Creator just like you - who's right? What do you mean by "lives in the hearts of His people?"
As long as your beliefs make you happy Ponce. All that counts in the end.
Atheists aren't convinced of God's existence because of the logic that Atheists have made. Such as: If God is perfect, why would God create a life for humans and other living things if He knows our outcome?
The simple answer that God creates everything is also flawed because who/what created God? He created Himself? There's no logic in that. You also cannot say God created logic or that logic is flawed because logic is also cause and effect. Meaning that something happens before something else happens (if that made sense). Thus, God's existence probably never occurred. There are countless amounts of logical reasons that doubt God and His existence. Some of course, are fallacious but many others aren't.
But to answer your question, assuming God created people, He would then have created Atheists (obviously) but why?? Why wouldn't God want everyone to believe in Him? Furthermore, if Hell exists, He's literally asking Atheists to go to Hell for not believing in Him. Except, He accepts all. Now, how do you accept everyone and everything (that You created) only to have some punished and sent to Hell? There's no logical reason. Which makes the case that God might not exist.
Your question is fallacious because there are a bunch of assumptions to be made before that question is permitting. First, you must assume God exists, then assume that He's able to create people - creating them imperfectly, I might add (Atheists) and then Him favoring some over others which questions His perfection.
I cannot really answer this question. From a biblical perspective one may peek at Proverbs 27:17 . . . "As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another" (NIV).
God created everyone and gave us free will to chose what we want to believe in, then we each have to pay for our decisions. They are free to think and feel as they wish and I respect them for that. I know that my lord exists and want to be respected to have my own beliefs as well.
They can not believe in God because there is no way to prove it, from a scientific standpoint that are correct. I have faith there is a God where they need proof. We are just different in our beliefs. We were all created equal though.
I think the idea that God created people who cannot be convinced of His existence is contrary to Scripture. Here are three verses that explain that:
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
It's not God's will that ANY should perish.
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God.
The apostle Paul said his calling was to persuade, even plead with people to be reconciled to God. Obviously, that would not be the case if they were unable to do so.
Psalms 14:1 The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good.
God names those who claim there is no God as fools. That gives a strong implication that their refusal to believe is a voluntary (and extremely unwise) decision on their part.
I think Scripture is clear that people who refuse to believe in the God who can be clearly seen in nature itself ("The heavens declare the glory of God" - Psalm 19:1) do so by their own choice, and not at all because they are constrained to disbelieve by God.
Assuming that god does exist as fact and purposely created such people, it wouldnt serve much of a purpose. None that are good anyway.
The only purpose in creating people who cannot be convinced of his existence would be to ostracize them from society. Create a minority group that everyone can ban together against and feel good about crapping on. Keeps the unity and all. Doesnt seem like a very nice thing to do.
Assuming that god does exist as fact and purposely created people who could willingly choose not to believe he exists doesnt make much sense either. You cant choose to not believe in something that exists as fact without being committed to an insane asylum. Thats like me saying I dont believe dogs exists as a Chihuahua barks in my face for 3 days straight and nibbles on my shin.
Personally I find the better question to be: Why would god create people who choose to believe in other gods if he is the only all powerful one?
Excellent question. I believe everything must have an opposite. How could one continually confirm, verify their beliefs without being tested by opposing forces? It is true that one would not know light if not for the dark; would not know good if not for the bad... and so on ...
And you gave an excellent answer to this question, Phyllis Doyle. I really did gain something very valuable from it.
Wonderful answer Phyllis , exactly the case as we live this example, God has allowed bad to exist by not interfering with most human choices , to prove a point that everthing experience have been tried and tested.
Now we see the results .
That seems kind of cruel. In that scenario, Atheists are pawns of god, used to prove a point, before being sent to hell.
M.T wow, your imagination really leads you to think so.
First there is no actual hell, next the choices people make are not his, so like chess, you make your own move , next regardless rather you are Atheist , or a believer we all are examine .
I don't think God (or the gods) created atheists. I think organized religions create atheists. Many people are actually seeking truths, and when they don't find it in the dogma, rules and strictures of an organized religion, they must first go through a period of unbelief before they start to sort out the truly spiritual. Earth is the planet of free will where people can believe in any god or no god at all. Your question implies that you are coming from the Christian perspective, but what about Muslims or others who don't believe in your god, but have a belief in their god? I am very curious to know if they would ask the same question.
Of course, then there are atheists like my father who were followers of John Scopes, and there is no rational explanation for that.
I think this quote sums it best:
“Unbelief is as much of a choice as belief is. What makes it in many ways more appealing is that whereas to believe in something requires some measure of understanding and effort, not to believe doesn't require much of anything at all.”
― Frederick Buechner
Wouldn't the historical and scientific justifications for atheism require understanding and effort?
If would be easy if the non-believer never knew about a god to begin with. If you know about that god, then you need justification for not believing in him. Considering theists are the majority, justifying atheism requires a lot of effort.
Really? How have you justified your belief in God's non-existence?
The same can be said about Believers, Joseph. After all, Believers are the ones who've made the claim of His existence...
"Can you show me your god?"
"Then I dont believe he actually exists."
Its a rather simple justification for the most part, unless you're talking to a closed minded idjit that doesnt care to listen to anything past "I dont believe".
Interestingly enough, almost all atheists admit that there is evidence for God. Daniel Dennet, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris for instance don't deny it. They just claim that, in their opinion, the evidence is not convincing enough.
Sounds about right.
So...what exactly is your point?
My point is that many simple choose to ignore the evidence for God's necessary existence.
Before it was evidence for god, now its evidence for his necessary existence. Must be pretty convincing to create millions of different beliefs..
Personally I wouldn't say evidence, rather than a reason to not deny the possibility.
Atheists pull from astronomy, biology, history, literature, and mythology (just to name a few) to justify their non-belief. Where as a theist only pulls from one source: the bible (or whatever religions text they were raised on). Hence, more effort.
I don't follow. How do these prove God does not nor cannot exist?
Because the only document serving as justification for god's existence is flawed. It would be like pitting an entire school curriculum against one Harry Potter book. They do not compare.
I think that it takes a lot of strength and courage to acknowledge that something you have always been taught was right might actually be wrong, often in the face of criticism from loved ones & strangers, and given the threat of eternal damnation
And yet the historicity of the Bible has been validated time and time again: http://bit.ly/192WmfR
Having some elements of history does not validate the bible's supernatural claims. Again using Harry Potter as an example, it's a work of fantasy fiction, yet it references real places, like London and France, and takes place in the 1990s.
Then how do you explain all of the Bible's fulfilled prophecies?
There is no evidence of fulfilled biblical prophecies. And prophecies, by nature, are vague enough to apply to anything. Its a literary technique employed by storytellers.
Sure there is: http://bit.ly/1Hrjzck
Perhaps you could provide an alternate link. That one gives me a loading wheel and never displays any text.
God created us all in His image and likeness (and, note this, He is not Homo sapiens).
At one fateful point, we were separated from each other and from God. This created a blackness -- a sleep -- a spiritual "death." After this, continuity of consciousness could only be obtained through a physical vessel (Homo sapiens body).
The objective is to regain spiritual awareness, but as a decision of our own. We cannot be cajoled into this. We cannot be convinced into this by intellectual prowess. We cannot be swayed into this by works of "magic." This is our own "boot up" cycle. But instead of predetermined code, we need to load a certain enabling attitude -- humble confidence.
Atheists are merely those who have not yet achieved a glimmer of awareness of the spiritual half of reality. That's okay. It takes time. It has taken me several thousand years. As an infant, I sensed this attitude and nascent awareness in my dreams of flight, ontological awareness, faith and doubt.
Many relevant and thought provoking answers here. For my 2 cents, if anyone is interested, one would first have to define what they mean by 'God' to even begin to fathom this question. If you're referring to the source, or the tao, or whatever you like to call it, no one can possibly deny its existence without various levels of self delusion. Religion, as it were, is often constructed in such a manner so that followers will perceive a particular entity as 'God' for a variety of reasons. Such an entity would thrive on having both believers to serve it and nonbelievers to scare the believers into serving it. A clever and crafty 'God' would manage both ends of the spectrum, or perhaps even delegate authority to various offspring and have them fight each other. Creation and destruction continuously work in harmony to produce the beautiful and the grotesque for us creators/ observers to create and observe.
your question really says something about the reality of god. Did you ever think "hey maybe there is no god?" of course not. it has to be "those silly atheists, always being curious and questioning this mythical being in which i worship!"
This is honestly not a question to be asked. it is a "no solution" math problem. The reason for that: people like yourself who simply cannot fathom the fact that maybe god ISNT real!
Some people may see innocence in this question, but i see arrogance. Ignorance. Stupidity, even.
He didn't create them. He gave everyone free will and therefore people had the choice to believe in Him or not. God has nothing to prove to anyone.
God did not create atheists He created the person. Being an atheists is a product of choice. But it doesn't mean that He does not love atheists because as He said to His words, on Luke 5:32 "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
There are many people (even atheists) that believe there is some - sort of God out there just not the "God" that most religions are based off. And many people also believe that the bible is fake and in fact just a book that was created to scare us into being "good people". Not saying I don't agree with the bible, just not all of it.
Atheists don't usually go against what we believe, they still have morals and live by most rules in the bible.
It's quite sad how Christian/other religions are so adamant on changing atheists, yet most Christians don't even live by the rules themselves.
You know the bible says not to judge others, but yet we are constantly judging.
Atheist answer: God didn't create atheists who can't be convinced of his existence, intelligent humans evolved from monkeys who use their intelligence and realize there is no god, thus they deny god's existence.
Religious answer: God didn't create atheists who can't be convinced of his existence, he created free will for his beloved children and some choose to harden their hearts to religious prompting, thus they cannot be convinced.
Good question, but we must admit we come in this world as infants we do not have an opinion of being Atheists, christian, or any other belief,
So we all are born equal to the subject.
We decide when we are old enough to make the choice to follow or are persuaded by what we hear and see from family and friends or strangers.
A atheist is not going to say I am one because of another's belief,
But by personal choice they will tell you why by statement, or by their lifestyle that speaks the loudest.
Usally it is a rejection of God , Not that they really want to say he exist , it is what he stands for is what they reject.
So no matter how much proof it is they will reject it all . As believers have come to have enough proof to say different, Atheist is also a choice allowed , even as written in the bible , satan has been allowed to prove his point about humans, even though he rebels against his Creator as well, soon this will be a thing of the past.
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