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God Given Rights

  1. Stump Parrish profile image59
    Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago

    Let's take a moment to think about these so called "God Given Rights" I hear the religious harping on all the time. According to the religious folks out there, God has always existed.  Now. if these rights were God given, one would think she might have included them in the best selling novel of all time.

    It's interesting that these God Given rights were not being enjoyed by humans until the United States of America was formed by the actions of humans. No one on the face of this planet had ever heard of these God given rights until our founding fathers mentioned them, and included them, in the Constitution of the United States.

    Now unless the religious folks out there are claiming that God herself wrote the Constitution of the United States, these rights were granted to us by the founding fathers of America.

    It seems to me that the bible is more interested in taking rights away from everyone than it is in granting rights. It's seems that the phrase God taken rights is more appropriate than God given rights.

    I will wait patiently for a religious person out there to show me how, and when, God granted me the rights I enjoy based soley on the fact that I am living in America. Come on religious people, I know there are a bunch of you out there. Surely at least one of you can back up the claim that the rights granted by humans in the Constitution of the United States, were granted to the citizens of this country, by God. Don't get your hopes up, this atheist isn't holding his breath waiting for a response that wil never come.

    1. Druid Dude profile image60
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      So, you don't want the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Here's your coat, what's your hurry, and don't let the screen door bang you in the ass on the way out> Arrivaderci and Bon Voyage. Good riddance!

      1. Pcunix profile image90
        Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        That's not what he said at all.  Did you even bother to read his post?

        1. Stump Parrish profile image59
          Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          lmao at the comment by druid dude. I sincerely hope that there are religious people out there capable of intelligent responses.

        2. Druid Dude profile image60
          Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I believe that we have a God given right to stand and walk upon the earth unimpeded. Yeah, proof that those rights are accorded by God. Do you seriously think that this is a pinnacle of thought? Personally, I wouldn't care less if they were accorded by the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown. It was lip service then, and it is still lip service. These are the ideals of a group of men, securing rights for themselves while denying them to others. Do you really think that Jesus was smiling?

          1. Pcunix profile image90
            Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Jesus, if he ever existed at all, was long dead by then.

          2. Stump Parrish profile image59
            Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            The problem is that too many people do believe that the rights granted us in the constitution are in fact god given rights. They take this a step further and believe that since these rights are god given and they worship god, they are entitled to decide who gets to enjoy the these rights. Kind of sounds like the comment you made doesn't it. A bunch of men deciding that women, gays, atheists, Mexicans, Mormons, Muslims, Jews, don't deserve the same rights that Christians deserve. Hatefulness is just fine if you believe in god, correct?  It is ok to with hold the rights of others if you believe in god, correct?

      2. Stump Parrish profile image59
        Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I never said a damned thing about wanting rights or not. I was simply asking you to explain to me how they are God given rights. Since you responded to a make believe comment I suppose you agree that the claim of God given rights is also a bunch of made up garbage. By the way I also didn't state that I dislike plants that bloom in the winter.

        1. couturepopcafe profile image61
          couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Whatever one's take on god may be, each of us has the right to unchained freedom from anyone else's tyranny (for lack of a better word). That is the only 'god given' right.

          1. couturepopcafe profile image61
            couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            I just realized I was talking about the rights in the D of In and you're talking about the Const. My bad.

      3. nightwork4 profile image61
        nightwork4posted 4 years ago in reply to this

        where did you get that from. he didn't say anything even close to that, in fact it was the opposite. wow

    2. Quilligrapher profile image89
      Quilligrapherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Hello Stump. How are you doing tonight?

      I would rather not be drawn into differences of opinion between you and those you call “religious folks.” I merely wish to point to an error in your claim that “these rights were granted to us by the founding fathers of America.”

      The Constitution did not grant us either our rights nor our liberties. It only guarantees them. The Constitution recognizes that the people had these rights and liberties before the document was drafted and one of its purposes is to secure them against foreign attack or oppression by our own government.

      Secondly, you might wish to note that God is not mentioned as the source of these rights in the Constitution. The words “God,”  “Creator,” “Jesus,” and “Lord,” with just one exception, do not appear in the original document nor in any of the Amendments. The exception is the form of the date that was common at the time,   "Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.”

      Sorry to invade your thread, Stump. I could not resist addressing what appeared to be a misstatement.

      1. Stump Parrish profile image59
        Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        welcome quillgrapher, I was aware of the use of the word "Lord" and that it referenced a date. This singular use is often offered as proof that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

        The use of the word "granted" was as you mentioned was possibly used in error as you pointed out. I'm still not sure that very many people were aware of these rights prior to the drafting of the Constitution. I do know that these rights didn't become the rights of all men until this country was formed. By drafting the Constitution our founding fathers did assure that all men were guaranteed the same rights. I know that my use is a lot closer to reality than the belief that these rights were granted by a God.

        I still believe that no one was aware that these rights had ever existed. Very few would have had the ability to think on this level in those days. Most people accepted their lot in life based upon their station of birth. This is much the same way that many feel they are actually born as a christian. Very few will admit that had they been born in Iraq they would be worshipping Allah and wouldn't have a clue about the rights we are discussing. If these rights had been granted by God, wouldn't the followers of all three major religions be aware of them? After all, they do all three worship the same God.

        I didn't view your comments as an invasion and rather enjoyed it. Thanks for a correction that is actually based in reality and fact. It's a nice deviation from the norm.

        1. Quilligrapher profile image89
          Quilligrapherposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hey, Stump. Me back again.
          I am inclined to think that many, many people were indeed aware of these rights prior to the drafting of the constitution. Likewise, these rights did not become the rights of all men when this country was founded. They were already recognized as the rights of all men but the monarchies of Europe did not guarantee these rights for all. I have several reasons for feeling this way. Here are just two.
          1. The first is widespread literacy among the colonial settlers.
          The research of Lawrence A. Cremin, professor at Columbia University, indicates that literacy among adult white males was 70 to 100% in Colonial America compared with 48 to 74 % in England. (1)
          2. Prominent Western philosopher John Locke (1632-1704) was no stranger among the founding fathers. He conceptualized three rights as natural and inalienable:

          Life: everyone is entitled to live once they are created.
          Liberty: everyone is entitled to do anything they want to so long as it doesn't conflict with the first right.
          Estate: everyone is entitled to own all they create or gain through gift or trade so long as it doesn't conflict with the first two rights.

          Notice how two of the three became part of the Declaration of Independence more than 70 years after his death. (2) Therefore, the concepts were already well known to the colonists and the American model of bottom to top governance spread rapidly to France and sparked the French Revolution. Our Constitution has served as a template for dozens of new fledgling democracies since. Those who argue our Constitution is no longer fit for modern times need to recognize that the words used may be three hundred years old but the ideals they represent will last forever.   
          Thanks, Stump, for sharing in this thread.

          (1) Lawrence A. Cremin, American Education: The Colonial Experience, NY: Harper & Row, 1970.
          (2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_an … s_theories

    3. 0
      Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      It's my God-given right to respond to your reference of God as "she" and "herself" by saying you should correct those typos or else stop deliberately making a mockery of God if you want any Christian to take your post seriously.

      1. Stump Parrish profile image59
        Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        That's rich Brenda considering the way I've seen you address atheist on here. If you have a problem with my humor, don't respond.

        It's interesting that you choose to speak for all Christians when there are numerous responses from Christians already posted. Why don't you say what you really meant in that if I don't change these words in the future, you won't take my post seriously. Considering the type of comments you have left in the past, you aren't giving much incentive to change anything. My life will be infinitely more enjoyable if you keep your opinions to yourself and on your own posts.

        I will show your beliefs the same level of respect you show my lack of them, absolutely none. Amen

        1. 0
          Brenda Durhamposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          Hmm.
          My apologies to any Christian who didn't notice that you had named God a "she", then.
          Indeed, neither I nor any Christian who noticed that would take your post seriously.  So, I think you're smart to not hold your breath as you said.

          1. Stump Parrish profile image59
            Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Again you decide you are the spokesperson for all of christianity. I noticed you assumed that the only reason christians have already responded must be due to their lack of reading comprehension. There is simply no way that they might not be as petty as you are, correct? Perhaps I should show you the respect you show homosexuals, would you prefer that? It always amazes me how people who show other no respect what so ever are the one who demand respect the loudest. I suppose it's also your god given right to expect and demand respect from those you offer no respect to. As usual with the majority of holier than thou christians like you, it's a case of do as I say and not as I do. Now I am curious about why this is bothering you so much since all humans were supposedly created in god's image. If this is the case, how do you reconcile the fact that you aren't a man? If you were created in god's image that would indicate that god is either transsexual or all women are a mistake. correct? Since I have heard that your god is incapable of making mistakes, it appears that she actually spends part of her time as a male figure or she is a he that likes to slip into a girly costume on special occasions. Which is it, the transsexual thing or the role playing fetish? 

            My apologies to those who came here to have a serious discussion and had to read this crap. Little miss holier than thou and I have had some contact in the past and she is one of the things I didn't miss about hub pages during my time away. Not sure if this was obvious to everyone or not, lol. I am pretty sure she will have nothing useful to add to the discussion and I refuse to treat her any differently than she treats everyone who has a different lifestyle or set of beliefs.

    4. Jerami profile image78
      Jeramiposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      God given rights ??? 
      There is nothing in scripture which gives an individual person any such rights.

        For example;  when I gave one of my little children my permision to do a particular thing, they might say that they have the right to do it, cause daddy said that they could do it.

        BUT; any time that I wanted to change my mind, permision was retracted and their rights melted like a snow flake on a summers day.

        "God given rights" are pretty words put together by our founding fathers in the constitution, but in truth ...  that is all that they are ... "pretty words".

         We do have the right to want, and to expect.  BUT ???
       
         If we have to choose one or the other, which would you choose .. the ability to do a certain thing  OR  the right to do that thing?

          I don't think that god gives us the rights to do anything.
      He may give us the ability ..  or not.

        Just my opinion.

    5. Dave Mathews profile image59
      Dave Mathewsposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Those "God Given Rights" are just that, "RIGHTS" Given to Man, Rights that can just as easily be removed by God if He so chose to do so.

      Granted man penned what was written word but God Himself gave the thoughts to man, established for man the rights you question and insures that each man living under them, who believe, those rights are protected.

      You may try to take away the fact that God Created such a document that is your choice, but God knows differently and so do I.

      1. Stump Parrish profile image59
        Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Alright Dave, you claim that you Know this and other things about God. How do you know this to be true? How can I learn these things and where can I go to learn them. Remember that I have this nasty problem that forces me to look for proof of something before I accept it as fact. Please show me the way to learning that God put these thoughts into the minds of our founding fathers and again I don't accept hear say as fact based on my faith in those telling me something is so.

      2. A Troubled Man profile image60
        A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Had you just stated you believed that, it would show some honesty, but to claim it is something you know for a fact only shows dishonesty and a lack of credibility on your part, Dave.

        You can't know that the thoughts of those men were their own thoughts or not, that is just pure blind faith talking and nothing more.

  2. Reality Bytes profile image94
    Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    Rights are endowed by a creator meaning that at the time that a human being enters this world they hold these Rights.  It is not Rights granted by God, they are Rights guaranteed by the act of being born(created)!

    1. Druid Dude profile image60
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Atheists don't believe in God...therefore...No rights for you!!!. Now how can I prove that these rights are accorded by God? Why bother...that's MY point. Jefferson was supposed to be the most secular of the Founding Fathers...reconcile that.

      1. Druid Dude profile image60
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        The white euro conquerors are no better than the Israelites who invaded Palestine. Everything you own is stolen, and blood soaks this land from sea to shining sea. This includes atheists.

        1. 910chris profile image73
          910chrisposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          For either side, there can be no clear winner. One side will not recognize the other side arguments as right.

          1. couturepopcafe profile image61
            couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Right. Perhaps it would be best if we thought of 'God' as 'that which gives us life' or our 'life essence'. Surely we can all agree that to be alive we must have a life essence, whatever it is. And by virtue of that fact, we have rights which were neither given nor can they be taken away. At least in theory. There's always prison and torture to contend with.

            1. Pcunix profile image90
              Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              No, we do not agree on a life essence.

              1. couturepopcafe profile image61
                couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                Well, something is keeping you alive, wiseguy. Whatever that is, that's what I'm referring to.

                1. Pcunix profile image90
                  Pcunixposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                  Oxygen?  Carbohydrates?  Chemical reactions?  Those are things that keep me alive.   No "essence".

            2. Mighty Mom profile image91
              Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              We could (and have and will) argue about the definition of (or even existence of) God all day.
              It's your other statement in your other post that took my breath away, CPC.
              The one about the men of power/dominance/plain sight.

              The best way to hide something is in plain sight, isn't it?
              Wow.

              1. couturepopcafe profile image61
                couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

                You can watch this from H2 (history channel). It takes a bit longer to load so give it some time but very interesting and I'm still trying to wrap my head around it.

                http://xfinitytv.comcast.net/tv/America … ST_hero_tv

                And if you've never been to Denver Airport, the mural there will blow your mind. They show it toward the end.

  3. Stump Parrish profile image59
    Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago

    Reality, my creator was my parents. This is a proven fact. The myths of a god or gods has never been proven and never will be. I again ask why these rights were never bestowed upon man until a handful of "men" got together and created a new world based upon these thought that they had.? If these rights were granted by god, why didn't mankind know about them or claim them for themselves prior to, the time the Constitution of the United States was drafted and adopted?  Was God simply pissed at man and kept the idea for them a secret until that time?

  4. Stump Parrish profile image59
    Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago

    Please by all means druid, support that claim about Jefferson. I know that a lot of our founding fathers were considered to be religious men. I also know that they had a living experience with what happens when the church controls the government. They were also intelligent enough to realize that there had to be a better way. My rights are guaranteed by the constitution of the United States and your mental weakness that requires a god to explain things has nothing to do with my rights. Muslims believe in a god and yet most Christians seek to with hold right s from these people. You should say what you mean and what you mean is that anyone who doesn't believe in your particular god doesn't deserve any rights, in your ignorant opinion.

    1. couturepopcafe profile image61
      couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Most Christians seek to withhold rights from Muslims? How so?

      1. Stump Parrish profile image59
        Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        sry I missed this one earlier, The first thing that comes to mind is the Mosque at ground zero. The second is the claims of Sharia law. It's odd that Santorum and a host of Christians are demanding that religious law trump constitutional law while complaining about the very same thing when it's Muslims. Look at the communities across the land that are fighting the attempts by Muslims to build a Mosque in their neighborhoods. Freedom of religion to these people means that Americans are free to practice only the Christian faith.

        1. couturepopcafe profile image61
          couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I see your point. I have to agree with the mosque at Ground 0. IMO, that's based more on patriotic sentimentality. Even though the mosque wouldn't be exactly on the same spot, it's kind of like erecting a statue of the Oklahoma bomber in the student lounge.

          As for the rest of it, I don't really know enough about it. That's why I asked. Any details on the Santorum thing?

          1. Stump Parrish profile image59
            Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            this link will show how this sentiment is held across the country and how recent candidates for the GOP and the faux news network is feeding off this hatred of Muslims. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/herman-cain- … o-do-that/ I suppose Cain agrees that this is another God given right.

  5. Stump Parrish profile image59
    Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago

    The white Christian conquerors who invaded Iraq and no better than the Israelites who invaded Palestine but you still cheer them on don't you. Followers of all three major mental handicap societies believe in the same god and yet will still claim that she is on your side in every meaningless war you people live for.

    BTW, that was a pretty sad way to avoid admitting that you lack the ability to explain how these rights we are discussing are granted by god. Just admit that you are incapable of doing so and quit trying to delude yourself. It's easy to see that you don't need facts of any kind to base your supposedly factual discussions on. I remember hearing remarks like that back in grade school.

  6. Stump Parrish profile image59
    Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago

    BTW Reality, I wasn't attacking you. When I reread what I posted it seemed to come off as an attack. I appologize if that's the way you took it

    1. Reality Bytes profile image94
      Reality Bytesposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I did not take it as an attack. smile

      I do not believe that there are any Rights given by "God?  There are human rights and they do come from the actions of your parents.

      Even though our Rights in the United States are written in to our Constitution. I do not believe it was the intent of the writers to say that Rights are God given.  I believe as I said, they believed that human Rights are guaranteed to each individual upon our creation.

  7. Druid Dude profile image60
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Everything is a manifestation of energy...including consciousness. Consciousness must be included in the equation  because consciousness exists. We cannot exclude the possibility of consciousness at any level. You must not have read the book. We are all gods, so if God created man, it is safe to assume that God was a man. No myths needed. Everyway that we can describe how live came here...could also have been engineered...ask NASA. Why do you imagine that our own scientists are beginning to consider an  extraterrestrial genesis?  You really have to get out of your box more.

    1. Stump Parrish profile image59
      Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      ok what book are you talking about and what does this have to do with the false claim that the rights granted by our constitution are NOT God given rights. Do you intend on addressing the subject of this post or are planning on running around in circles barking at your tail?

  8. Druid Dude profile image60
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    Prove E=MC2.  Stop sniffing my b...

    1. Stump Parrish profile image59
      Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      E(everything you have posted) = Moronic Crap 2 (rediculous to warrant an intelligent response)

  9. Druid Dude profile image60
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    You are already convinced they aren't.

    1. Stump Parrish profile image59
      Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Bees pollinate flowers based upon the direction the wind blows. You see, I can post shit as stupid as what you post. Unless you plan on posting something relevant to the conversation, this is my last response to you.

    2. Druid Dude profile image60
      Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      And you so spelling challenged. I wonder what other little faults I can pick at? Incapable of proving anything. You can't even prove you exist. I certainly wouldn't believe it. I could blow you outta the water with one hand tied behind my back. Accidents...when math tells you you are WRONG!

      1. Druid Dude profile image60
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well, be that way. You really don't have a clue what a forum is for, do you? Someone says something you can't argue with...and you go pout. Very adult.

        1. Stump Parrish profile image59
          Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I asked you to post a comment that is relevant to the original post. you insist on wasting my time with your childish comments. Please explain what crap like this has to do with a public forum. "I wonder what other little faults I can pick at?" You also feel a need to comment on my so call spelling abilities and then have the audacity to call me childish. Do you even have the ability to carry on a conversation on a specific subject? Either comment on the subject or go back to the play ground and hang out with the other little kiddies.

        2. Stump Parrish profile image59
          Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          fo·rum/ˈfôrəm/
          Noun:   

          A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

          Did you notice the phrase particular issue? Do I need to provide you with the definition of the word particular? Perhaps you are the one who lacks an understanding of what a forum is for.

  10. Mighty Mom profile image91
    Mighty Momposted 4 years ago

    Stump,
    Those rights only apply to Americans because only Americans are exceptional.
    God loves us best because we are the greatest nation on earth.
    Do not argue with me.
    I am right.
    If necessary, I will wrap myself in the flag and sing patriotic songs.

  11. Evan G Rogers profile image83
    Evan G Rogersposted 4 years ago

    God Given Rights refer to those basic rights inherent to humanity. Whether they come from an extraplanar deity, or from the sheer fact that we are human is moot.

    1. Stump Parrish profile image59
      Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Evan, That would indicate that these are as you say basic human rights and that God had nothing to do with them, correct? Too many people in this country actually believe that God must have sent these laws down on a second set of stone tablets. The fact that some people wish thing were true is all it takes to make it so in their minds.

  12. couturepopcafe profile image61
    couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago

    The unalienable rights that are mentioned in the Declaration of Independence could just as well have been inalienable, which means the same thing. Inalienable or unalienable refers to that which cannot be given away or taken away.

    The OPs idea is absurd.  That "No one on the face of this planet had ever heard of these God given rights until our founding fathers mentioned them, and included them, in the Constitution of the United States.

    "Now unless the religious folks out there are claiming that God herself wrote the Constitution of the United States, these rights were granted to us by the founding fathers of America."

    Certainly the founders were religious men, even superstitious, as witnessed by the Great Seal of the United States which contains the all seeing eye of God, but to think that the rights were 'granted' by Free Masons who wanted to rule the world is unthinkable.

    The federal triangle of Washington DC ensured that a visible set of doctrines would be in place for thousands of years as a symbol of America's set of values, a new order. The layout of DC clearly indicates a pentagram with its southern most tip pointing at the White House. There's nothing sinister about a pentagram, at least at that time. It simply pointed to a launch of global domination from the most unique system of democracy ever established.

    Make no mistake. This country was founded on a set of ideals to be sure but the ideals and 'rights' given to us are rooted in a desire by powerful men to keep secret there dominance while leaving them in plain sight.

    1. Stump Parrish profile image59
      Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      couture, I agree with the first part of your comment. and obviously I have a problem with some of the remaining part.

      I'm not sure how the original idea I posted is anymore absurd than the claim that these rights are god given. I am dealing with the Constitution that contains to first reference in history to the basic human rights that are a foundation of our country. Now, I will say that if the founding fathers were indeed Free Masons, I also have to say that these rights were indeed granted to the citizens of the United States by Free Masons. You may claim it is absurd to think so, but assuming you are correct about Mason membership then, explain this...The founding fathers are supposedly Free Masons, the founding fathers created the concept of inaliable human rights, the founding fathers created a constitution that granted these right to the citizens of this country. Now how can you claim that Free Masons didn't grant these rights to the citizens of the country they founded?

      I understand the claims and charges against the Free Masons but, cannot these same charges can be made against the Christian religion? They seek to convert the entire world to their faith and to rule it from a central location.

      Even the charitable acts that the Christian religion is so proud of come with string attached.

      1. couturepopcafe profile image61
        couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        I guess I take issue with the idea that anyone can grant these rights. Sure, the founders penned it, but to say they had the power to actually grant them is where I take issue. Perhaps it's just a matter of the way you worded it.

        As for the Christian conglomerate, we're not bound by the laws of their faith. We can't be jailed if we don't follow them. I understand your comparison but don't see the Christians as having any way to control me whereas the government can, if they chose to. (I guess there was a time when the church could imprison me, too, if it wanted to.)

        1. Stump Parrish profile image59
          Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The problem is the all out attempt to have the christian faith take over our government. The majority of candidates that run cater to these people and will state anything they think these people want to hear. There is a law that states that no religious test may be used as a requirement for public office. When was the last time an atheist was elected to any federal government position. The fact that the Christian faith doesn't have enough control of our government to pass laws based solely on biblical laws is seen as a temporary situation by most. You are aware of the number of Christians who actually believe this country was founded as a Christian nation. You are also aware of the fact that no amount of evidence will change these minds. The only supposed reference to God in the constitution or the Bill of Rights is the phrase. " that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights" and this is absolute proof to these people of the fact that America was founded as a Christian nation. I have done research at the Library of Congress and have read actual newspapers that show differently. When the Treaty of Tripoli was signed, copies of the treaty were published across the country. Many of these still exist. What doesn't exist is evidence of any outrage at the phrase " The Government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion". The people alive during this time obviously don't know as much about what they were thinking as those who are alive today. If you want to know why some of these people think the way they do, check this link to the Wallbuilders version of history. These people make their money lying to Christians and selling these lies as proof of our history. Try and verify anything they publish or produce in a documentary. Please be aware that you may have to go thru two or three layers of links (lies) to find out that everything they offer for sale is either based on outright lies or they use another employees as verification of the proof that a different employee is offering. The Cato institute is another one of these sites. here's the Wallbuilders version of the Treaty of Tripoli   http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesar … asp?id=125

          1. couturepopcafe profile image61
            couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            Ok, so I'm a little confused. Are you saying the Wallbuilders version is a lie/distortion? I've read the entire article. It sounds like they're saying the founders were Christians and did not deny it.

            I've read the English translation of Article 11 and understand the point of contention but as I don't read Arabic and there is allegedly no original document, I remain confused.

            1. Stump Parrish profile image59
              Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Have you ever attempted to verify any of their stories or articles? here is a copy of the original treaty that resides in the Library of Congress. As I mentioned before there are also numerous copies of the actual newspapers that contained a copy given to them when this treaty was ratified. The members of Congress actually demanded that the treaty be read before the entire congress ( a rare occurrence back then) and this transcript is also available.  Here is a link to the example I gave about the Wallbuilders distortion of the facts concerning this treaty. http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/f … ty-tripoli this article mentions some of the ways David Barton attempt to use outright lies to convince his christian audience that the true history of the United States is wrong. He makes claims that cannot be supported and are easily prove to be outright lies with a little fact checking. The problem seems to be that too many on the right actually believe that fact checking is a brand  new service offered to Democrats by their bank, and there for, they want nothing to do with it. if you are interested there are countless claims that have been made by Barton and the rest of the Wallbuilders organization that have been proven to be out right lies. They also like to quote real history out of context as well as deleting parts of historical documents and conversations to make it appear that their version is correct. Their favorite practice is to simply invent history counting on their readers having no reason to question their lies. The fact that you must purchase anything they offer, most who buy this are simply looking for validation of their personal beliefs and will not question anything they read or watch.

  13. 0
    Sooner28posted 4 years ago

    Yep Stump.  Right don't exist if people don't recognize them.  Sorry to say, but I can scream and cry and yell all I want that I have a right to free speech or a fair trial, but if my society does not enforce these laws, in what sense can I be said to have rights at all?  Maybe you could say IDEALLY I would, but this does not ensure they would exist at all.

    1. couturepopcafe profile image61
      couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      Good point. If one person believes in something, a right to freedom, for example, and the kingdom says that person cannot have it, the more powerful will oppress the weaker one. It's a story as old as time.

      1. Stump Parrish profile image59
        Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        A lot of the problems we face as a country in regards to the truthfulness of what the majority believes are explained in a couple of quotes by Hitler. The GOP and Fox News are prime examples of his Thoughts in action.

        “The victor will never be asked if he told the truth.”

        “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”

        "All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.”

        “The receptivity of the masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan.”

        “What luck for the rulers that men do not think”

        1. couturepopcafe profile image61
          couturepopcafeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          The entire premise of the Free Masons (and their originators, the European based Illuminati) as well as modern moguls.

  14. Druid Dude profile image60
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    The founding fathers sought to secure for themselves the rights previously held only by royalty. We are talking about the crowned heads of Europe...England in particular. Certain cultures, including the Romans and the Greeks extended these same rights to their citizens. The Romans even allowed cultures that they were in possesion of, As in Judea in Palestine, allowed the indigenous culture to worship their own gods and practice their own religion. The Crowned heads of Europe held sway over the non-royals, whose life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness was non-existant. Pcunix said he didn't need history lessons...seems to me both of you did. Your understanding of what we are, what God is is really...neanderthal.

    1. Stump Parrish profile image59
      Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      please by all means, point me in the direction of any legitimate history book that explains the history of god. There are numerous references to Her followers but I haven't found one that shows the true history to your chosen deity. My understanding of god is just fine and based in reality. God only exists in the minds of those who believe in her and you know this to be true. If it wasn't you could show me some sort of evidence that doesn't require faith to accept.  My understand of god is that all gods are a figment of the imagination. If you believe in your god you must believe in all the gods invented before your was correct. I suppose each of them granted the world the rights we all enjoy, correct? The only mention of any rights I see your version of god are the right that people have to die if they violate any of the commandments from your god. These exist in one book and one book only. Children have the right to die if they dishonor their parents. A wife has the right to be killed by her husband if she isn't a virgin on her wedding night. You have the right to die if you eat a bbq pork sammich or if you wear 50% cotton tighty whities. Why don't christians partake of these rights their god granted them. it's because they don't agree with them, correct? as usual most christians pick and chose which laws and rights they must obey.

      so you say these rights in the constituion existed prior to the writing of the constituion. What happened to these rights for the years between the Roman empire and the formation of America as a country? Oh yes thats right, god's representatives decided that god's followers didn't deserve them. It's interesting how many ways the followers of god take it upon themselves to second guess god when it suits them isn't it?

      1. Druid Dude profile image60
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        E=MC2. That is the equation I am speaking of. Consciousness is in the equation. It can't simply disappear at death. The frontiers of theoretical physics, Quantum theory and quantum mechanics suggests that we know very little about where we are, how we got here. There are things which we can't even see because we aren't wired to see it. The composition of the universe itself is unknown matter. It's there (or should be) but we have nothing which can reveal what it is.. We can't see it.  Think you got all the answers? Doubt it.

        1. A Troubled Man profile image60
          A Troubled Manposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          That's full on baloney. lol

      2. Druid Dude profile image60
        Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Just what makes you think God backs them? That's sad, man. Very, very sad. Why do you think they were turned over to Peter? He sucked as a fisherman, and he was an even worse shepherd. You just need a perspective adjustment. Where did the rights go? I said: The Crowned heads of Europe, whose emergence was hand in hand with the fall of Rome. History, man...read history.

        1. Stump Parrish profile image59
          Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          It's interesting that you chose to ignore the fact that the crowned heads od state answered to the church.In regards to your post above, I was under the impression that the right had all the answers about where we came from and how we got here, I was under the impression that god did it. Isn't that the answer for everything the religious chose not to understand? I suppose you would say that if I was subscribing to a deity being responsible for everything in the universe, my perspective would be just fine, correct? It seems to me that a lot of the things you claim we don't know, actually have answers that you simply seem to dislike. I am quite happy with my perspective and as a bonus I get to experience the relief that not having to be a raging bigot, gives me. I am able to decide on my own what I like and dislike, I don't need a god to explain this to me.

          Just out of curiosity, what are you referring to with the question, what makes you think god backs them? I;m not sure what you're talking about and will wait for an explanation, and the sarcasm that I'm sure you will include. It always tickles me to listen to those who claim to be religious attempting to use science to explain their position. Science to the religious is just like the teachings in the bible. It is meant to be used only when it supports your claim, correct?

  15. Druid Dude profile image60
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    I's all just atheistic tripe being forced down someone's throat. You'd think they were christians.  Stumppy...just what is my chosen deity? The christians would tell you I am a blasphemer, in the control of satan. You say I'm an idiot in the control of the christians. Both of you are wrong. But that might clear up a few things for you.

    1. Stump Parrish profile image59
      Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      The fact that you speak like one is what lead me to the conclusion that you are a christian. I find it interesting that you argue with me about the problems with religion if you aren't a religious person.Why don't you simply explain yourself as this will explain things a lot better than these word games you like to play.

  16. Druid Dude profile image60
    Druid Dudeposted 4 years ago

    I think I have clearly demonstrated that belief in God isn't necessarily a christian thing. I think I have clearly demonstrated a grasp of science which goes beyond yours. That isn't my fault, or your fault. You see, I know that everything we know is nothing. You don't know, I don't know. You can't prove anything with words, yet words are all I have to steal your heart away. We are not the do-all end-all of all there is. What If God is actually a civilization billions of years older than ours? Is it really impossible? If so, then everything here may be a product of extreme terra-forming. The nature of consciousness is being explored, and if the act of observing an experiment, changes hte experiment, then there is proof there of something beyond anything we have previously imagined.

    1. Stump Parrish profile image59
      Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      ou can't prove anything with words, yet words are all I have to steal your heart away WTF is this nonsense? I think I have clearly demonstrated that belief in God isn't necessarily a christian thing. I think I have clearly demonstrated a grasp of science which goes beyond yours. You haven't clearly demonstrated anything nor will you if you insist in talking nonsensical riddles. If you have something intelligent to say why not speak in the English language you hinted at earlier. What if, what if. Well what if there is no god?  Is it really that impossible? How is your life going to change if you discover this to be true? Will you cease to have a reason to exist? Will you suddenly forget how to breathe, eat and think?

  17. 60
    livethetruthposted 4 years ago

    A lot of the constitution is from the book of Deuteronomy.  The Bible is not interested in taking away rights; God knows our weaknesses and gave us a guide to make our lives less complicated.  It is your free will to decide to let him guide you or not.

    1. Stump Parrish profile image59
      Stump Parrishposted 4 years ago in reply to this

      I agree that bible isn't interested in taking away any rights as it is an inanimate object. The taking of rights is what the believers in that book feel is their god given right to do. When was the last time you heard of any Christians working to give some group that wasn't christian any rights? For the most part, the so called conservative christians in this country feel they and they alone are the controllers of the rights locker. Those who wear a different uniform aren't welcome on their playground which sadly they feel is the entire United States. Please explain to me why others should consider following your god's words and laws, when very few if any christians are capable of, or compelled to do so themselves.  Most seem content to use their freewill to pick and choose which laws they should obey, and which laws others must obey.

    2. Captain Redbeard profile image59
      Captain Redbeardposted 4 years ago

      TROLL

    3. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image93
      Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years ago

      The citizens of the United States of America aren't smart enough to grant anyone rights to anything....we're talking about a collection of folks with the highest rate of incarceration into prison in the entire world.

      That's indicative of a citizenry that is either scared to death of itself, or too busy watching something idiotic on television to notice that half the people they grew up with are in prison for stupid shit like drugs that big pharma used to push on everyone (methamphetamine), plants that grow in all fifty states (marijuana) or a plant derivative from Southern America that the CIA has been documented to have distributed in Los Angeles (cocaine.)


      I'm thinking that if any recent group of citizens in the US were to grant each other rights...it would be the rights to poison your mind with mass media, the rights to destroy your health with fast food, and the rights to paying higher taxes than wealthy people because you think that somehow then you'd be more likely to become one yourself one day.

      You're more likely, however, to be granted the "right" to watching American Idol and eating monsanto soy loaf in one of Dick Cheney's private prisons....the profits from that venture, the warehousing of America...are going towards more laws against being poor and human....across the globe.

      1. Mighty Mom profile image91
        Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

        Well, at least we still have freedom of choice.
        We can choose:
        a) American Idol
        b) Dancing with the Stars
        c) The Voice
        d) America's Got Talent
        e) The Real Housewives of __________________(5-6 options here)
        f) Reality TV on any number of unsavory subjects that should not be televised

        Heck, they've even revived Fear Factor!

        How can you complain about this wonderful country of ours, TWS, when we have such scintillating entertainment options?

        1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image93
          Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years ago in reply to this

          I was telling our pcunix earlier today that I wish folks were force fed Mozart...it would probably lead to better people than whoever it is that buys "lady gag uh."

          1. Mighty Mom profile image91
            Mighty Momposted 4 years ago in reply to this

            That's the problem. Who would do the force feeding? Surely not the government, as it would be roundly decried as communist propaganda. Surely not the big money puppeteers, as they want us Amurikens fats, dumb and unhappy (a requirement for the Prozac Nation).
            Nope, dumbing down is in full swing.
            And it's working!

            1. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image93
              Wesman Todd Shawposted 4 years ago in reply to this

              Well...personally, were I forced to choose - I'd pick communist propaganda over corporate fascist nonsense....you know, things like corporate personhood, the American Legal Exchange Council, private prisons, housing bubbles, etc.

              We're being force fed things all the time - but I tend to think that what we're actually being fed are mixtures of uppers and downers..."here's your coffee...spiked with liquor."

              Nobody ever figures anything out because of all the conflicting information out there - and the reason for this is that America must be economically ruined and morally degraded from within in order for it's citizens to accept a global governance.

     
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