Attention, all USA Hubbers:

1. 87

   DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years ago

   READ this article, in its entirety, and save your own jobs by taking appropriate action..i.e., reading place-of-manufacture labels, and boycotting offshore goods.
   http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch … -shock-you

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   1. 81

      psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Supporting local producers is a nice idea for every country, not just the USA. 
      
      But then again, so is being part of the global community so long as you try to support manufacturers that don't exploit, pollute or commit animal cruelty.

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      1. 87

         DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Agreed, and there, in your last sentence, is the problem in a nutshell....outsourcing production overseas is supporting countries who don't give a tinker's dam about such things!

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         1. 68

            cfinposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            All countries? Generalizations are a dangerous and offensive thing. Some people would see the US as irresponsible and the worlds biggest polluter.

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            1. 68

               cfinposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               I think in this case (if the people of the US bought nothing from abroad) all Irish companies should close in Wisconsin, including Glanbia and Kerry and ship their tens of thousands of jobs home. Those companies are Irish companies, employing people in Wisconsin, providing Irish products made with Irish and Wisconsin milk and other produce from both places. Some products come from Ireland or the UK and some products produced in the US make their way onto shelves in Ireland and the UK..  I really cant believe that your generalizations (even in your main title) are so acceptable by the community here.
               
               Links between certain countries are good. We need each other and each others trade and products. Not to mention the amount of tourists and relatives going both ways. Maybe you should be a little more specific.

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   2. 85

      Denmarkguyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      The problem with rampant capitalism is that it's unsustainable. The lifeblood of capitalism is growth. The backbone of capitalism comes in the form of investment... which often means public shareholders who "demand" increasing rates of return. In order to get increasing rates of return, the company must increase sales... and cut costs. That makes OK sense in the shorter term, but doesn't work in the long term. Think about it... when investors "demand" returns ("growth") of 7% and the population grows at 3%... where does the 4% "difference" go? In order to simply MAINTAIN the "system," I will have to own 5.7 cars in 50 years from now... Economists and conservatives refuse to look at this faulty math... pointing istead to the fact that "were are OK... NOW."
      
      But I'm digressing. The real issue is greed. Not specifically CEO greed (although that's not pretty!), but societal greed. What do I mean? Everyone wants "more, more, MORE" and there's never an "enough," no matter how much "more" you have. Nobody (almost!) wants to live with "enough." The nature of "The American Dream" has changed radically since the 1950's. To have a nice house, a couple of cars, take a couple of vacations, put the kids through college and retire to Florida doesn't cut it anymore. We have somehow convinced ourselves that we are "failing" unless we're striving to become Donald Trump, or Bill Gates.
      
      I owned and ran a business in the 80s and 90s. I employed 19 people, at one point, and was doing pretty well. On several occasions I was actually called a "loser" and "lacking ambition" because I repeatedly turned down franchising and buyout offers... but all I wanted was a comfortable living. I didn't NEED "all the MONEY IN THE WORLD!"  and I didn't NEED 47 stores. Our CULTURE is not satisfied with "enough," and I experienced it firsthand....

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   3. 85

      Denmarkguyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      And yes, I'm all about buying locally, buying from artists and crafts people, and buying from second hand stores... and I do.

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   4. 0

      Justsilvieposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I have seen Wal-Mart come in and take over, and kill all the smaller businesses in a town. They are scary, when you realize they are also into banking, the automobile industry, pharma and the list goes on. They are a giant monopoly and are killing everything in its path. Their employees average a salary of 1, 2000 a month and their lack of benefits cost tax payers about a 1,000 dollars a year per employee just to cover the Medicaid they are insured with, not sure about the cost of the food stamp entitlements, but I am sure someone can do the math and see it also sucks up another large amount of taxes.
      
      They are the perfect argument for taxing the rich at a higher amount because as you can see even with the Tax breaks that money does not trickle down to the employees. What is it going to take to make them play fair? I know people want less government but how does the country get this type of employer with obscene profits to pay their employees a living wage and get the cost of their doing business off our backs.

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      1. 77

         Robert Erichposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         The problem with this statement is that Walmart is owned by regular people. In fact, you could go out, spend $75, and be an owner of Walmart. In fact, for big businesses like Walmart, that is probably a good idea. If you own a portion of Walmart, then two things happen: 1) you make money from the profits that Walmart makes (the same amount per share as every other stock holder) and 2) you have the ability to vote on policies and procedures.

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2. 71

   relacheposted 10 years ago

   Make sure you include foreign petroleum products in your boycott too.  If we don't wean ourselves out the habit of consuming a majority of the world's energy resources, it will only makes the inevitable economy and societal collapse that much worse.

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   1. 87

      DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Very true, relache, and ironically, we in the US are now the biggest producers of petroleum...so why are any oil companies still importing?

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      1. 96

         wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Being the biggest producer is a far cry from producing all we need.  We may produce a lot, but we use far, far more.

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         1. 87

            DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            All we "need," or all we have learned to use???  There is also a difference there....   

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3. 86

   SimeyCposted 10 years ago

   Every Major corporation in America out-sources. Why would a company pay for an American worker when they can get the same quality worker in India and pay them ten times less?
   
   In terms of business and profits, and making sure your share holders are happy, it makes perfect sense and most of these companies cannot compete world-wide without doing this.
   
   Morally it is totally wrong - it's just the way the world is sadly....just look at how Google, Apple etc. avoid taxation in the UK (and probably the US) - it's all about the bottom line - they don't care about us...

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   1. 87

      DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Just because "every major corporation" out-sources does not make it right.  And no, the quality is not as good--it is cheaply made inferior quality goods designed to wear out or break in short order so you have to keep buying them over and over again.  It's a despicable marketing ploy known as "planned obsolescence."
      The reason they claim they 'cannot compete,' is the personal greed of the corporate executives, earning obscene salaries and outrageous perks.  The shareholders are not to blame--it is the executives, their special privileges and "golden parachutes" at the end of their so-called "service."
      THAT is what is driving this country into economic ruin.  A reasonable price is possible.  It used to be that goods were "keystoned," in other words, if you paid a dollar, you sold it for two.  Now, they are multiplying that by a factor of about a 300% markup--all to line corporate coffers...and they laugh all the way to the bank.

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      1. 86

         SimeyCposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         I did say it is morally wrong. And in some cases the quality is better, especially in the service sector. India is a prime example where you can get VERY skilled labor at a fraction of the cost of the same in the US. To compete US corporations have to outsource much of their IT, support and many other technical 'support services' as every other competitor is doing it - by reducing these costs, fees can be reduced.
         
         I work for a company that has to do this - I do not like it, it is wrong and Americans are losing jobs - however, if our company did not do this, then we would lose work and a lot more people would be out of a job. Sadly that is the truth - sure there are examples of corporate greed and pandering to shareholders - however this is not the case in many service sectors - many are Partnerships - the owners are the Partners - there are no shareholders - if the company doesn't make money then the Partners lose out

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      2. 80

         Amaryllisposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         You are right, the quality is not as good, but for business owners the problem is that consumers won't pay the price to get something made in the US, or the UK for that matter. I believe in local manufacture, so when I set up my business making nightgowns and robes I used local manufacturers, but the result is that my robes cost far more than those made in China. I can't sell them in stores,  customers prefer cheap goods, badly made from cheap fabric. I've been told to outsource to China if I want to survive, so it looks like I'll be shutting up shop.  US and UK workers have to be paid a great deal more than their Chinese counterparts, I am happy to do that, but the customer isn't happy to pay the resulting price.

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   2. 0

      Sarra Garrettposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      The bottom line is GREED.  Corporations want to keep lining their pockets with bonuses and large year end raises by outsourcing everthing to foreign countries.  If it wasn't for Wal Mart outsoucing to Bangladesh those people in the sweatshop wouldn't have died due to lack of proper emergency precautions.......in America we already have those precautions in place as it's the law here.    Shame on you Wal mart!  Shame on Corporate America!
      
      Wal Mart is also the FEMA Food Distribution point in the event of martial law as well.  It will be the only place to obtain food and clothing.  Yup, you heard it here first folks.

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      1. 87

         DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         You are so, sadly, correct, Sarra!  Shame on our Government for making them the FEMA source!   
         Shame, shame, shame, indeed!

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   3. 73

      Barbara Kayposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I'm tired of calling customer service and getting someone from a foreign country that you can't understand. It is enough to make not want to do business with that company, but it seems all the customer service jobs are now in India.

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      1. 87

         DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Agreed, Barbara Kay,
           It is infuriating, to say the least.  However, you CAN demand to be transferred back to the States for someone who speaks unbroken English, and they have to comply.  I just learned that recently.

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      2. 60

         movingoutposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Not all, but most. Straight talk I saw so many fighting for is a Mexican company. So if you're using their services youre not only sending your money to Mexico, but also to the richest man in the world. Carlos Slim. And yet so many are against lack of imigration laws. Ironic!

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4. 85

   rebekahELLEposted 10 years ago

   I haven't shopped at Walmart for years.  Almost every time I drive by, their parking lot is full.  When a friend asked me why I refuse to shop there, she was shocked when I told her why.  Her response was she didn't care as long as it saved her money. 
   
   I like the top comment by Robin on that link.  It makes sense. 
   
   My Christmas shopping this year is local businesses and antique stores.

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   1. 87

      DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Good for you, rebekahELLE,
      I commend you on supporting the "little guy."  Seasons' blessings to you.

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   2. 61

      Hollie Thomasposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      The thing is though, stores like Walmart are not as cheap as they purport to be. It's a myth, they'll lure would be shoppers into their store offering two for one deals on really crappy foods which are full of sugar, salt and who knows what other Frankenstein ingredients. Then suggest that buying a super dooper size fabric conditioner or washing powder will save the shopper x%, when in reality they make those amounts up. There was a documentary about it here in the UK about a year or so ago, and when the research team actually checked if buying the xlarge size, was in fact cheaper, they discovered that in the majority of cases there was absolutely no savings to be made, or in fact, it was more expensive to buy the goods which were supposedly on offer.

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      1. 87

         DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Very true, as well, Hollie!  I've done my own checking, and there is little or no savings on the large sizes.  It's often cheaper to buy multiples of the smaller sizes. 
         As far as the crap ingredients, those are everywhere.  High fructose corn syrup and high sodium content are what is making Americans sick with heart disease and causing an obesity epidemic.  You can't get away from it easily.

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   3. 87

      ESPeck1919posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Can't tell you how many times the exact same thing has happened to me, too.

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   4. 77

      phdast7posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      rebekkah -  Small is the way to shop, whenever possible.   Let me add to your list --- Thrift Stores and Good Will.   These stores are not just for the very poor any more.   Lots of well to do middle class families shop there because you can get gently used items for 1/3 to as little as 1/10 the original price.
      
      Additionally, reusing, re-purposing, etc, is good for our environment and our family economies.

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5. 67

   2uesdayposted 10 years ago

   There have been questions ask recently about many big companies here who have ways of not paying taxes in the UK.
   
   When we shop a large number of the products have 'Made in China' stamped on them. The good news is that we can import to China and our luxury goods are popular there.
   
   It is about getting labor costs down. Even if it means that they are shipping huge container loads of goods over from far away countries such as China it helps them to sell at lower prices. The 'pile it high and sell it cheap' has worked its way into shopping. Even some of the more expensive makes are made by people working in terrible conditions in other countries.
   
   The goods brought over are often no longer made in our countries which means that the jobs have been priced out of the market. In some cases the parts and components are shipped in to make the goods from.
   
   Putting an import duty on goods may affect those with the least cash to spend. BTW Shopping online is also affecting the local retailers.

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   1. 87

      DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      As I replied to "SimeyC" above, the labor costs would not need to be so low, and the markups so high, if it were not for the greed of the people running these mega-corporations.
      Everyone owns everyone else these days, it seems; did you know, that as of a few years ago, there were only 12 (that's right: one dozen; twelve) major corporations worldwide?!?!  So much for anti-monopoly laws, eh?

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6. 60

   Xenonlitposted 10 years ago

   I do look at place of manufacture and it kills me that local people can't make the goods.

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   1. 87

      DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      They can--they are just not allowed to--that is the frustration, the irony, the obscenity, the injustice.
      
      Oh, and BTW--The Chinese are becoming aware that their goods are being spurned by some shoppers, and have resorted to tricky labeling, with tags reading, "Made in PRC."  --  Hello--same thing--that stands for "People's Republic of China"

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7. 75

   WriteAngledposted 10 years ago

   Surely, though, Walmart is just a typical example of the capitalist ethic, which is all about making the maximum profit from the minimum input.
   
   From what I read, most people in the US are fervent supporters of capitalism.
   
   You can't have it both ways. If you don't like what Walmart is doing stop preaching capitalism to yourselves and the rest of the world. You can hardly complain if the rest of the world is now following the example you have been setting for so long.

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   1. 87

      DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Capitalism, yes; greed, no. It's not capitalism alone responsible for this debacle, but the personal greed of the CEOs that pay themselves more than they really deserve.

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   2. 96

      wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      In a way, yes.  Americans want what WalMart offers, and want it badly.
      
      As usual, though, they don't want the cost associated with what they want; unemployment, underemployment, low wages and all the rest that goes with a cheap product.  They want their cake and eat it, too, in other words.

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      1. 87

         DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         All I know is, for me, I will buy American made at every chance I possibly can.  And if that means I pay $4.00 instead of .99¢ , so be it.  I then know in my heart I've done the right thing, and helped someone keep their job.
         So, maybe I then can't afford to buy dessert or something else "extra" that week.  Oh, well.

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         1. 96

            wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I don't remember the details, but I watched a show a couple of years ago where couples got to redecorate their entire house for free, but only with US made products and they had to be chosen in a short time. 
            
            As I recall, the absolute best anyone at all did was to get everything but the kitchen stove - that was simply unavailable from domestic sources.  M
            Much of what was found I wouldn't have in my home, but that's all there was. 
            
            A truly sad statement, but a true one.  America is moving away from goods production to shuffling paper for a living, and it shows.

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8. 75

   WriteAngledposted 10 years ago

   Well, I guess it depends on definitions. To me, capitalism = greed.

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9. 81

   psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

   So how many of you took part in "Shop Local Saturday"?
   
   I did but I had to go a long way to even find a local, non-chain, non-franchise store.

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   1. 85

      Denmarkguyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I did... although I really haven't started shopping.
      
      It's easy here-- I live in a smaller (10K people) town that's also a historical town... chain stores are the exception here, rather than the norm. There's no WallyWorld here, no Walgreens, no Target, no strip malls. We have ONE McDonalds, ONE Subway and ONE Starbucks.

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   2. 87

      ESPeck1919posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I did last year, and it was pretty awesome, since I had money to spare. This year, I'm making my gifts out of thrift store finds and stuff I never use anymore.

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10. 66

    triciajeanposted 10 years ago

    Great discussion--lots of truth spoken here.
    
    As I look at the big picture I recall that some Europeans came to what we now call the US and took the land away from the folks who lived on it. Then for some years the Europeans kept coming, in huge numbers, to enjoy the new land and the free lifestyle. Africans came, too, against their will and without much participation in the good life except to provide it for others. People from most anywhere came to make a better life.
    
    Then at some point those already here started to object and closed the harbors, put fences at the borders. But you just can't stopped poor and desperate people from trying to survive better. So we have lots of illegal aliens. Why? because we have lots of survival.
    
    China has found a different way, bringing the good life to their own country by taking some of what is available here.  Bottom line, this nonsense won't stop while there are rich countries and poor countries. When will we decide that everyone on the planet belongs to us? When will we develop methods of inclusion instead of exclusion?
    
    All this said, I believe that inclusion starts at home in community, in the neighborhood, and it's worth buying local if you have a margin of income you can use. Only keep in mind that the poorest people must buy the cheapest goods. They cannot vote with their dollars.

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    1. 87

       DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Right.  We are on a fixed income, and below the poverty line ourselves.  Yet, I speak with my dollars when I am able.

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       1. 0

          An AYMposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          Our culture has an interesting perspective on poverty when it includes being able to have time and ability for leisurely internet conversation.

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          1. 81

             psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

             Yes, how sad that we have raised the definition of poverty above 'actually dying in a ditch'.
             
             No, actually, that's a good thing.

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          2. 77

             Uninvited Writerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

             Yeah, people living at the poverty level should be working 24 hours a day with no breaks. No extras, no candy, no smokes, no booze, no fun at all of any kind.
             
             I would probably be considered to be just above the poverty level here. I am online a lot, but that is because I earn money online and am trying to create a second career.  I'm sure anyone writing here is trying to earn money.

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          3. 87

             DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

             @ AnAYM--Before you pass judgement, with such statements, know this:
             my husband is disabled, and on the heart transplant waiting list--what is he supposed to do?  Sit and twiddle his thumbs all day?  The small amount we pay for internet and land-line phone only--(we do not subscribe to cable TV; or have cell phones), so we don't even get the shows we like best--is the ONLY entertainment and recreation he has, thank you very much.  And frankly, it costs less than people are paying to subscribe to their "smart phone" service plans--a LOT less. 
             I do make a little bit of pocket change by writing here on HP, but believe me, it's not enough to pay any bills or buy medical insurance for myself...and neither is the pittance we use for our phone and internet connection...nor would they be enough even combined.
             I aim to remain civil, but I resent your tone and implication.

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          4. 0

             An AYMposted 10 years agoin reply to this

             I never realized "Interesting" was apparently such a negative word.
             
             psycheskinner - I do think it's a bad thing that our conception of poverty has changed.  To me poverty means not having basic needs of food/shelter met.  That our current conception of poverty extends beyond basic needs implies that there is some inherent need for extraneous material goods to satisfy the minimal requirements for a comfortable life.  I don't think it's good that our culture suggests that things are what we need to be happy.
             
             Uninvited Writer - Way to read into that places it wasn't going.  Again, I specifically used the word "Interesting" because that's how I feel about it.  Is there anything insidious about finding something interesting?  I always thought "Poverty" was not having enough food or shelter but I don't think that's the concept of the word anymore.
             
             DzyMsLizzy - Boredom is in the eye of the beholder.  I'm not sure how attempting to make me feel guilty over finding interest in a concept is supposed to alter my perspective of it.  I find it interesting because I believe it suggests that we are largely losing the understanding of finding pleasure in living simply at all tiers of society.  There is nothing more unfortunate than poor health so I hope your husband feels well, but being light of possessions is a boon not a curse.

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             1. 87

                DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                It was the way you worded it, AnAYM, there appeared to be an implication of condemnation.
                "Boredom" surely is different for everyone; for my husband, a formerly very active go-getter, never sitting still, owning his own businesses for years, working umpteen hours daily and happy doing so; the physical inability to do anything but sit in a chair and play computer games is very boring, frustrating, and depressing for him.
                He cannot even read much anymore, as the drug cocktail the doctors have prescribed has had a negative impact on his vision.  So yes, he is bored, and I don't blame him. 
                Being "light of possessions" in your statement seems to imply perhaps selling off the TV, the computer, and anything else that currently makes his life comfortable and bearable.  Thatwould be the curse, not a boon. 
                To each his own, but I still disagree with your position.

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11. 87

    DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years ago

    I just came across this graphic on Face Book that precisely illustrates exactly the points I am making.  It is not that American workers want to be paid too much; it is the CEOs who have obscene salaries.
    
    In case you can't read it, it states that the AVERAGE salary for a fortune 500 CEO is $11,400,000!!!  Yes--Eleven MILLION, 400 THOUSAND dollars a year!  No one NEEDS that kind of money!
    The graph also shows that is 269 times the annual salary of  the average working-class American!!!  THIS is where the entire problem lies, and is WHY the jobs are going offshore.. ... PERSONAL greed of corporate CEOs who make more than even the President or legislators ; more, even than the also ridiculous salaries earned by pro-sports figures!
    
    
    
    

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12. 55

    prettydarkhorseposted 10 years ago

    Distribution, sales and logistics jobs are on the rise while the low paying jobs - services and manufacturing are outsourced. Do we want high skilled or low skilled jobs? This is how capitalism works.
    
    The page link is over optimized.

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    1. 87

       DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Distribution, sales, and logistics are the low-paying service-industry jobs.  The jobs that pay wages with which you can actually afford to house and clothe your family are in manufacturing...and it's THOSE JOBS we want back!

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       1. 55

          prettydarkhorseposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          We can't outsource logistics, distribution et al jobs BTW. Manufacturing jobs are repetitive boring jobs, one reason they outsource it aside from labor being cheaper in other developing countries.
          In the case of Wal Mart, government regulation is lacking, they become so huge.
          
          What I am trying to say is that boycotting products which are outsourced will have repercussions in the economy. Bigger and other products of the US like Nike, Apple, Gap, Mattel etc. which are popular in other parts of the world will suffer if we boycott products which are Made in China for example. One reason that the US is the biggest capitalist economy.
          
          Which brings me to my main point, this is capitalism and it thrives on greed - profit accumulation.

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    2. 83

       gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       It is fact of life, high paying jobs require a certain speciality and education.   Jobs in computers, science, and math are the ones that are going to be high paying because of societal demand.   Such jobs require a highly complex and advanced skill level.     Those who have advanced education in a technical, scientific, and/or mathematical field will always be employed.    This applies to those in the health field. 
       
       Such jobs are brainers.   Since these jobs will always be in demand, they are not be outsourced.   The lower end and/or service jobs are increasingly becoming automated and/or computerized.   These jobs are now the new unskilled jobs.   People who perform unskilled labor will in all likelihood be replaced and/or downsized either by automation or computerization.   Fewer and fewer people will be required to perform unskilled labor.    Those who have no marketable skills will become the new poor.  Unskilled and lower end jobs are totally expendable as opposed to highly skilled, technical jobs.

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          prettydarkhorseposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          Types of jobs in the service sector (but not all) are the ones being outsourced, say for example those people answering queries or problems that arises regarding cellphone companies like T Mobile. I usually have some problem with my phone and when I call T Mobile those who are answering queries are from other countries. These types of jobs require unskilled workers and can be outsourced, but let say service sector in hotel industries like that,  employees are hired locally. Same in manufacturing industries, the brand names are US owned, but they are made in other countries.
          
          But in other operational level in that same company, they don't outsource the jobs! Mostly telecommunication engineers that are needed for innovations, the employees are from here, these are the skilled workers and they are what the economy needs to be competitive.

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       2. 87

          DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          @gmwilliams--
            You think jobs with computers require 'brains,' and therefore cannot be outsourced?  Look at the "Made in" label on your 'smart phone,' your computer, your television, your coffeemaker!  They are ALL made overseas.
          Why?  Because people in China do still have brains...while our government sees fit to continue making cuts to education funding, and "dumb-down" our own population.
          Even back when I was in school, I saw first-hand the value placed on education by the Chinese--there was a Chinese-American girl in my class, who, on report card day, was in tears, afraid to go home because out of a straight-"A" set of grades, she had a single "B+."  Her parents were going to be very angry with her for that one grade short of an "A."
          While their work ethic may be different from ours, I don't discredit their intelligence....

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13. 55

    prettydarkhorseposted 10 years ago

    A different perspective about outsourcing/offshoring jobs! http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 … 150121.htm

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    1. 87

       DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Hmmmmmm...welll.....I'll reserve judgment...that's one person's paper.....

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14. 58

    GoGreenTipsposted 10 years ago

    It's easy to talk about corporate greed and it's true. But what about the thousands, or hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of people that crowd into stores on Thanksgiving day, instead of staying at home with their families to save a couple of dollars on a DVD or Tv. Greed? Or St8upidity? How many people are complaining about corporate greed and took their greedy little butts off to try to fight  and push their way into a retail store, which ever one it might be?

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    1. 87

       DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       I agree with you, GoGreenTips--
          I believe that entire 'tradition' of so-called "black Friday," and worse, now migrating into Thanksgiving Day itself, is the absolute worst display of greedy, selfish, flagrant consumerism there is.
       
         I think that both greed and stupidity are involved in those events.  This year, my husband researched all the touted "best buys" for the sales, and guess what?  They were basically clearance sales of last year's or year-before's technology.  Nothing of the best and latest newest models to be had.
       
       I stay far, far away from ANY stores that entire weekend.  The whole scene disgusts me, and I want nothing to do with any of it.

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    triciajeanposted 10 years ago

    This is a provocative discussion. It entices us to put ourselves in one another's shoes. I have no doubt that people are struggling, most of us here on hubpages, while CEOs make ridiculous amounts of money. Capitalism was never meant to go that far. An entire tribe could live on one CEOs yearly income. There is a difference between the freedom to make money with one's efforts and the license to be unethical! That is why I usually avoid discussions involving -isms. It depends on who and how. Any philosophy can be subverted.

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       psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       As of 2010 the net worth of the 6 Walmart hairs was equal to the bottom 40% of the nation's citizens.
       
       And yet they refuse to give Walmart workers health insurance, other benefits or freedom of association (e.g. with unions).

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       DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       triciajean,
       I absolutely agree with you regarding the CEOs lack of ethics!

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    orderedchaosposted 10 years ago

    My husband and I were just talking about how much we dislike Wal-Mart the other day. Last year we started going other places to buy the products and food we need, even if it does cost a couple extra cents because we disagree with how their employees are treated and what the company is doing to small businesses. Thank you for sharing this article- though it disgusts me- it's very informative and has reinforced our decision to conduct our business elsewhere. I'll have to pass it along to my family.

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    tillsontitanposted 10 years ago

    I'm glad I'm not a big fan of Walmart.  Don't get me wrong, I make the occasional stop there for something I can't find somewhere else, but it is not a regular on my list of shopping places.  If only we could get this country back to making things that stay in this country and stop all the nonsense!

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    triciajeanposted 10 years ago

    Yes. If everyone would tend their local economy, at all levels, and be good to neighboring towns, we'd create a viable economic system. For now, if there are no jobs available, create a business yourself. That way you control your survival. My neighbor is crocheting sweaters and sold 15 this week!

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    Repairguy47posted 10 years ago

    Walmarts plan is to destroy America! They will then move all stores to china. We being the drones we are will fly to china to buy the goods we need. Yep, makes perfect sense!

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    abbykorinneleeposted 10 years ago

    Repairguy, did you read the book Walmart is destroying America?? I do whatever I can after reading that book not to shop there

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    cfinposted 10 years ago

    Well being realistic, you cannot boycott all offshore goods. Generalizing makes for fascism. So no more German beer, Mexican tequila etc etc.
    
    I think what you mean is, if you can buy it from the USA, you should. Some things cannot be indigenous. For example, a car is a car no matter where it is assembled, the parts can be the same. I agree that the US needs to be purchasing cars assembled in the US. But you cannot replace an Irish or French race horse, certain plants, certain minerals, foreign technologies. Certain things cannot be replaced. What makes them special is that they are from abroad. The irony is, that foreign technologies and imports (including your ancestors) made the US what it is. Now the over abundance of cheap products from the developing world is ruining the economy. Moderating your purchases of offshore goods is a better target.

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       LauraVerderberposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       I agree with what you said.

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       DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       @ cfin,
         That is the point I was trying to make...obviously, we are a 'melting pot' of various origins, and sure, German Beer, Mexican Tequila (or beer), Irish sweaters, etc. are not what I am targeting.
       
       I refer to the glut of Chinese-made (or India, Bangladesh, Thailand, Taiwan, etc.)  everything else here--you cannot, for example, purchase a TV made in USA anymore--they don't exist.
       
         You CAN, though, buy a USA made mattress for your bed; but it is difficult to find USA made jeans to wear.  Even good old "American" tool companies:  De Walt; Vermont American ("American" right in its name for pity sakes!) are made offshore. They are made in Thailand, Mexico, China, Japan, and several other offshore locations.
       I stunned a manager in Home Depot one day, when he asked if I was finding everything I needed.  I inquired, "Where is your 'Made in America' department?"  He stammered, and said, "Oh, everywhere."  I looked at him as if he had three heads, and asked, "Have you even read the labels on your tools recently?"  Shook my head and walked away.

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    prettydarkhorseposted 10 years ago

    Don't buy Apple products then, wrong, this is a US company and the biggest earner in the economy! Of course it help the economy, with jobs - skilled jobs (how many engineers in the main headquarters in Cali), although Apple products are manufactured in other countries.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3445_162-57 … -products/

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       DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       We don't buy Apple products:  our house is an "i-free" zone!

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          prettydarkhorseposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          That is good (it is a choice), and your concern is valid and well taken Mam. It is nice talking to you BTW! :-)

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    prettydarkhorseposted 10 years ago

    I just want to add that US owned majority of corporations which sell products all over the world, from food, diaper, beauty products, fashion etc., Colgate Palmolive, Mattel - Barbie et. al, fashion- DKNY, GAP, Nike, Kimberly Clark, AVON, Victoria Secret - check US Fortune 500 or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … ted_States
    
    US is the biggest capitalist investor, it is the biggest economy, and the owner of biggest news networks!. This is economic imperialism, LOL!
    
    Add the cultural impact of Hollywood and all the business out of the movie and music industries.
    
    What I am saying is that we can't boycott stuff which are not US made, our economy will suffer, if they boycott us too.

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       cfinposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       And if you stop importing others goods, people will stop importing your goods. Exactly! Cultural imperialism will end for the US, having seen a huge decline in the last 20 years. Fascism springs to mind. I feel that the same attitude would see all foreigners (including myself. I am leaving anyway on the advice of my US wife) leave.
       
       An open market is what the US apparently fights for. You cannot run away crying when you are losing what you started.

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    prettydarkhorseposted 10 years ago

    they termed it as globalization - free trade - no tariff for import/export

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       cfinposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Yep. And technically this is why the US is such a huge success. 50 states with free trade. It wouldn't work everywhere (Europe for example because of history) but the states had a fresh start, not too much bad history and it worked well.
       Try tying 50 other states together and they will never agree on anything. This also rings true for an open market, free trade and the freedom of movement of people. The US is wondrous for this reason and it would be ironic for the US to suddenly shun imports completely as this topic is suggesting. Realistic and unbiased tariff's are fine in my book, for the record.

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          prettydarkhorseposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          Me two, You one :-)

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          DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          yes... realistic and unbiased tariffs  agreed, that is what is needed.  However, good luck with that. 
          I'm not suggesting boycotting ALL imports--it is evident that I was misunderstood.  I'm merely suggesting the boycott of those products whose export has cost us so many jobs.  Things that we have always imported are not the issue.  At issue is the jobs that have been outsourced and taken away from Americans, putting an ever-increasing number at or below the poverty line.  THAT is what is going to kill us.  THAT is what has the politicians screaming about "entitlements."  (Even though it is THEY who are getting the biggest of entitlements ever...but that's a whole other discussion.)
          
          For example, in 1933, construction was begun on the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge.  It took something on the order of 2/3 of the steel production of the nation to accomplish, and nearly single-handedly lifted the country out of the first Great Depression.
          The retrofit, currently under construction, behind schedule and over budget, is using (inferior quality) steel imported from China, while our steel mills stand idle.
          THAT is the sort of thing I meant when I made the OP.

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             cfinposted 10 years agoin reply to this

             I understand. The problem is, that people become so well educated in advanced countries that it becomes impossible to get workers in manufacturing. Everyone wants to be a visionary but not do physical work. It happened in Ireland and our economy collapsed in 2008. Things are only coming right again now almost 5 years later. Too many imported workers from poorer European countries, too many cheap imported products and much cheap food.
             
             Small businesses were destroyed. Then when the global economy collapsed we were hit really hard. We only had expensive items to export (which no one wanted because people have less money) like dell, intel, HP and the imports suddenly starting gaining in price because the cheaper countries are getting richer. It was a disaster. But now exports are growing again and imports are dropping.

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    triciajeanposted 10 years ago

    DzyMsLizzy, I like the details you give to make your point. Very well done. And it's nice to prompt a personal report from Ireland after the recent difficulties that country has been through, very relevant to our conversation.

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       cfinposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Indeed! Not one of my friends will work in a "low" job. They wont settle for any less than E40,000 per year ($47,000). They all have degrees from highly rated colleges. How can a country manufacture with no one to manufacture goods? They are all trained in IT software this and that. We have pretty much every IT companies european HQ including facebook, MSN, yahoo, google and linkedin, in Dublin, but there are still too many unemployed! Its because we have no indigenous manufacturing anymore. We just import everything and export ideas and expensive gimmicks. (and well trained workers these days )
       
       Its the same in the US. unfortunately, its bad if you have a lack of low class jobs.

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          DzyMsLizzyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          You do make valid points.  We do have a plethora of "low class" jobs that very few want.  The so-called "service industry" jobs:  barristas at coffee houses; hotel maids; McDonalds hamburger crews; fruit pickers, etc.   Those jobs are filled by either high school kids, retirees desperate for a few extra bucks, older kids working their way through college, or immigrants in the case of maids, and so-called "illegals" in the harvesting business.  What the powers that be (TPTB) don't realize in their persecution of the "illegals," is that those folks are performing vital services that most Americans feel are "beneath them." 
          I think the problem is not so much "highly-educated/talented" people, as it is people with over-sized egos who are unwilling to work honest jobs....coupled with the fact that such jobs don't pay a living wage....you cannot sustain a family on a "Mickey Dee's" (Mc Donald's) paycheck... 
          Employers are also refusing to hire full-time employees, in order to avoid paying for health benefits...(still another entire discussion).

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             cfinposted 10 years agoin reply to this

             Indeed! Its exactly the same situation at home. People just see it differently. With the fiscal cliff, coupled by the impending debt ceiling in the USA, the only difference between our countries is their size and the view others have of them. You are the biggest! We are closer to the smallest. Part of a union, in Europe, but that sometimes hinders more than helps. Technically we are more of a state trying to stand alone. Think Vermont against the world.
             
             Hopefully the polticos here see to it that taxes are raised in some fashion. Although I hate taxes, the US will be on its knees with another maxed credit card in its pocket. Darned if they do and......

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