Hubber score - so darn annoying - also HubPro

1. 96

   Phyllis Doyleposted 10 years ago

   I really have not been too concerned about scores till recently since that darn HubPro was created. I think HubPro is totally done the wrong way. Editing should NOT be done without our consent and should NOT be done IN our hubs. On all the other sites I have written for, editing suggestion were done offline in emails. Even good professional editors do not take steps that are NOT ETHICAL. The editors should work with hubbers offline in emails till the hubber is satisfied with and agrees with  the edits - then the changes should be made by the hubber.
   
   It is so darn annoying to see my hubber score drop by one point each time I have signed on the last two days. My lowest hub score is 69 and the majority of my hubs are 80 or above with most of those 90 or above, even some poems are above 80. I wonder if  those four new editors have anything to do with our hubber scores? What do you think about this?
   
   I guess there are two issues here: hubber score and HubPro. Have you had any experience with HubPro and were you happy with it - or upset with it? I strongly believe it is not an ethical way of handling the program.

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   1. 0

      sheilamyersposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I haven't noticed any of my hubs being changed, but I'll have to take a closer look. The way they explained it originally was they were going to notify us of the proposed changes and we'd have to agree before they made them. I'll be interested to see what other people have to say.

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      1. 96

         Phyllis Doyleposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Hi Sheila. The way I understand it is that, yes, they will notify with an email first. But, they will go ahead and do the editing in the hub then check with you if you agree. but the thing is, they will publish the hub they edited. ALL the editing should be done between hubber and editor in emails first.

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         1. 0

            sheilamyersposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I agree. I checked my settings and opted out of the editing thing.

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   2. 60

      The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Phyllis,
      I have not had it yet but I believe that is done with your consent because they email you at least 1 week, or more, ahead of time. Then you have an email address which you can return letters to, and you are able to write back and forth to each other. If you do not want this, you may opt out of it on your profile edit page.
      http://hubpages.com/faq/#HubPro-Beta

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      1. 96

         Phyllis Doyleposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, Kevin, I know. I have read the whole hubpro thing and do not agree with it. It is not ethical. Thanks.

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   3. 92

      lisavollrathposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I haven't had any experience with HubPro, and have opted out of it, because I don't want anyone else editing my work. And here's why:
      
      For two years, I worked for an arts and crafts publishing company, designing books, recruiting designers, and writing instructions. Those instructions were often handed off to an editor who had less breadth of knowledge about craft products and how to use them than I did, and who did not actually know anything about how an item went together other than what I'd written. She didn't have my expertise, so she wasn't really qualified to edit the work. It would be like asking me to edit the repair manual for my truck: I might be able to do some spelling or grammar corrections, but some words, and the intent of the instructions would probably be lost on me.
      
      I'm happy to get suggestions on spelling and grammar, but only as suggestions, and not as direct changes to anything I've written. If anyone ever opened one of my articles and changed anything without my permission, I'd have to remove my content to my own web sites.

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      1. 96

         Phyllis Doyleposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Lisa, I so agree with you. One hubber had said that he stayed in HubPro and found that an editor had taken away his own individuality and style by editing it her own way, hence it was then HER individuality and not his.  I totally agree with you. Thank you!

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      2. 0

         sheilamyersposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         That's a very good point about how they might not have enough expertise with the subject matter to make proper edits. Changing only one word could possibly change the entire meaning of a sentence or paragraph.

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   4. 86

      Lady Loreleiposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      If you go into "Edit Profile" and scroll down you will find "My Hubs are eligible to be edited with HubPro:" click no and you are removing your permission for them to edit.

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      1. 96

         Phyllis Doyleposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, Lorelei, I did opt out. I am just really wondering if the HubPro is affecting our scores, whether we have hoped out or not. Thanks

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         1. 60

            The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

            It should not, even if you did not opt out, but especially not if you did.

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   5. 70

      brakel2posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I will probably opt out.due to concern about writer voice, as someone mentioned. However, Hub Pro has nothing to do with our scores now. I think HubPage staff would like help with the quality of our hubs by using the expertise of the HubPro folks.

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2. 60

   LindaSmith1posted 10 years ago

   http://hubpages.com/faq/#HubPro-Beta
   
   Hubbers selected to participate in the beta will receive an email notification at least a week before editing will begin and a second notice on the day that editing begins. Each Hubber will have an assigned editor with whom he/she has the option of communicating with one on one.
   
   HubPages editors will:
   
   Proofread for spelling and grammar mistakes
   Update the information in Hubs
   Improve layout and structure
   Add supplementary capsules
   Obtain high-quality media assets (illustrations)
   Remove unrelated links and products
   Fact check
   **Communicate with Hubbers about the changes made to their Hubs
   **Provide a document with the before and after changes highlighted
   **Receive an email notice one week before editing will begin. This notice will also be displayed in My Account > Hubs > Statistics.
   
   **Receive a second email notice on the day that editing will begin. This notice will include the name of the editor assigned to the account along with a list of Hubs that they plan to edit.
   
   **Have their Hubs locked for up to a week while they are being edited.
   Receive a final notice when the editor is finished with their Hubs. This notice will include a list of all Hubs that were edited along with a list of pages (diffs) that show the changes that were applied to each Hub.
   
   **Have the option to communicate directly with their editor by replying to any of the email notices.
   
   **Have the option to revert any changes they are not satisfied with after their Hubs are unlocked.

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   1. 96

      Phyllis Doyleposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks, Linda. I read the whole thing and do not agree with it at all. I did opt out, but still have concerns about other hubbers and hubpages turning into articles that are not written by hubbers, but changed by editors. That is a big no-no with me.

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   2. 96

      Phyllis Doyleposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      "**Have the option to revert any changes they are not satisfied with after their Hubs are unlocked."
      
      Thereby causing more work for the hubber who already worked hard to express their own individual style.
      
      Help with grammar, spelling, English, capsule usage know how, etc and sentence structure is fine as long as the editor does it by email: IE: dear so and so, please correct the following errors in your hub for it to be published.

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3. 75

   spartucusjonesposted 10 years ago

   I was involved with the beta program. For the most part I had no issues, and the editor I was working with was good at addressing my concerns. You will be notified in advance and you will be made aware of any changes made. Even now I can still view my previous version of my Hubs and compare the before and after. You can also choose to opt out, so there is really no danger of your Hubs being edited without you knowing about it.
   
   Concerning Hub score, I really don't see how it could have anything to do with the editors. This is totally separated from the QAP with is done through MTurk. The only way they might affect your score is that your Hub will go through QAP every time it is edited. But if none of your Hubs were edited by HubPro it would be totally unconnected. Also Hub score has no impact on traffic and earnings so I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

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   1. 96

      Phyllis Doyleposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Spartacus, what you say about the hubber score is making sense to me. Thank you for responding to that. I did opt out of HubPro, thank goodness.

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4. 0

   calculus-geometryposted 10 years ago

   What's unethical about it if the author consents to it?  The people who have opted in know what the deal is and they must be cool with it.

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   1. 96

      Phyllis Doyleposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Well, calculus, if the author consents that is their choice and I have no qualms about that.
      
      What I think is unethical is that even though they will notify you they are going to edit, they lock the hub, do their own thing, then re-publish it. Then the hubber has to deal with, either accept or revert back. IMO that causes a lot of extra work for the hubber. And, I believe it is unethical for anyone to be able to go into someone else's work, lock the hub and make changes.
      
      My opinion is that editing is a good thing for hubs that need it, but it should be done privately between editor and hubber thru emails.
      
      Now, you got me thinking here -- since I opted out, I should have no concerns about it all. Actually, I opened the thread to complain about my hubber score dropping a point every time I sign on. And, for quite awhile, my score has been jumping all over the place. Then I got hung up on the HubPro thing.
      
      Guess I should just drop it, huh?

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      1. 0

         calculus-geometryposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         You should always express your views and concerns.  I only wondered what you thought was unethical about it as you wrote in your first post.

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5. 88

   Jodahposted 10 years ago

   I haven't been contacted about HubPro Phyllis and probably won't for awhile. From what I understand they are starting with the highest ranked hubs. Not really sure how I feel about it to be honest. But most of the higher ranked hubs should already be of a standard that doesn't need editing. It would make sense to me to start at the bottom and work up..the hubs that really need help first. As for Hubber scores, mine is the highest it has been at the moment and has remained stable for the longest time. I have no idea why..thought it must have had something to do with traffic stats being frozen. I hope your Hubber score sorts itself out.

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   1. 92

      Genna Eastposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Phyllis and Jodah...
      
      I didn’t opt out of HubPro until very recently.  (I’ve been too busy.)  I haven’t received any notices regarding suggestions for changes, edits, and so forth.  My thoughts echo Jodah’s in that I would assume the Pros would begin with hubs that warrant extra TLC, so to speak, and not with those that are higher ranked and meet HP’s “quality standards.”  Hubbers needing help will eventually receive it -- should they accept it -- and thus garner a higher point score as a result.  I’m on the fence with this program, Phyllis.  You are quite right in that editors can alter the entire style of a writer depending on the scope of the changes.

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   2. 96

      PegCole17posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Jodah, I was under the impression that the HubPro effort was going to concentrate on those hubs with the highest traffic first. I agree with you that it would make more sense to fix the ones which are lacking in quality which drag the entire credibility of the site down. It would seem that the highest traffic scoring hubs already have something going for them that works.
      Peg

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6. 69

   BritFloridaposted 10 years ago

   One of the first things I did when I was transferred here was opt right out. My question is, who are the editors and what are their qualifications?
   
   Like many people,I write in my own voice. I use English-isms. I use Yorkshire dialect sometimes. I break grammar rules a lot. I'll use repetition (which editors don't usually like) the same way George Bernard Shaw did in Pygmalion ('I'm willing to tell you. I'm wanting to tell you. I'm waiting to tell you.' I love that quote.)
   
   I write conversationally. I make up words. I use humour that some people wouldn't understand (mainly because it's British). I break up paragraphs at the wrong point grammatically, so that the article is more readable on cellphones. Yes, I have typos too. But so does the learning centre.
   
   I definitely wouldn't want anyone messing with illustrations and graphics.
   
   The editors, I'm guessing, are getting articles to HubPages' standards, which I find a bit tricky - I don't want maps and videos on recipes, for example. HubPages' standards aren't necessarily mine.
   
   Therefore I believe that yes, articles that are edited may well have a higher score because they are conforming to HP's own particular requirements.
   
   I've never been a conformist.

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   1. 96

      PegCole17posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Bravo, BritFlorida,
      When we all sound exactly alike, the interest in our work will be lost along with our writer's voice.

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7. 69

   BritFloridaposted 10 years ago

   Another question from a new person - do Hub scores matter? My highest is 99 but the average is 74. Is that good? Bad? Or is it irrelevant?

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   1. 88

      Jodahposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      That's good.My highest is 92 and lowest 58. As long as they don't fall below 40 apparently...that's when you need to worry. Though when mine fall below 60 I tend to try and improve them a bit.

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      1. 60

         The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         My highest is 96, my lowest is a poem at 61 which I already updated once.

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   2. 94

      SmartAndFunposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Irrelevant. I wish HP would get rid of hubscores, so people would stop worrying about them.
      
      I never check hubscores. I couldn't tell you what mine are because it doesn't matter.

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      1. 60

         The Examiner-1posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         This is about Hub scores - not Hubber scores.

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         1. 94

            SmartAndFunposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Oh, sorry. I was just answering BritFlorida's question:
            
                BritFlorida wrote:
            
                "Another question from a new person - do Hub scores matter? My highest is 99 but the average is 74. Is that good? Bad? Or is it irrelevant?"

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         2. 96

            Phyllis Doyleposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Actually, this thread can be about hubber or hub scores, since I mention both in my OP.

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   3. 96

      Phyllis Doyleposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      It depends on the hubber, Brit.  Some pay close attention to their scores and others are not concerned about it.  I usually have not been too concerned - but, when a drastic change happened in new hubs being rated so low and jumping up and down so much that concerns me. Also, when my hubber score started jumping back and forth within 5 - 6 points, that concerned me.

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8. 54

   Samantha Sinclairposted 10 years ago

   They likely lock the Hub so you aren't making changes to it while they are making changes on it. That is actually very normal. Many times applications automatically won't let you open a file if someone else has it open.

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9. 60

   LindaSmith1posted 10 years ago

   Brit: You will be able to figure out if pigs fly or not before any of us figure out hub and hubber scores.

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10. 85

    Millionaire Tipsposted 10 years ago

    I am actually looking forward to my hubs going through HubPro, but since they are basing it on traffic, I have a feeling I am very low on a long list of hubs they want to go through.  It would be interesting to get some stats on how many hubs and Hubbers have participated, what the average time frame is, whether it has effected their traffic, etc.

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    1. 96

       Phyllis Doyleposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, it would be interesting to hear how it goes with members who are in the program and to see results.

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11. 69

    BritFloridaposted 10 years ago

    Thanks, Jodah. I'll work on the pigs thing, Linda

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12. 82

    Jayne Lancerposted 10 years ago

    The HubPro editors are apparently highly qualified in what they do, so they should be capable of editing an article without altering the writer's voice. They also don't make changes to hubs without the knowledge of the hubber.
    
    The reason I've opted out is because I like my hubs as they are. I put a lot of time and thought into their layout and organization. From what I gather, HubPro editors change the layout geared to mobile devices, which means using full-width images etc. They also like to add polls, tables and videos. Unfortunately, I've never found a video that demonstrates the techniques I recommend for applying make-up, which is what most of my hubs are about. If I wanted to use videos, I'd have to rewrite my hubs according to the videos, describing techniques I'd never use myself. So, until I can produce my own professional looking videos, there won't be any in my hubs. I've never seen the need for a poll in any of my hubs, and have only once found a use for a table. The only thing I'd find helpful is a proofreader--not an editor.

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    1. 0

       calculus-geometryposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       I was thinking the same thing about your last line.  If they offered proofreading to clean up my typos I would opt in for that.  Otherwise I think I would just be wasting an editor's time if I opted in to what HP currently offers, because I would probably change most of their edits back to the original.

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       1. 82

          Jayne Lancerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          Same here.

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    2. 96

       Phyllis Doyleposted 10 years agoin reply to this

       Now a proofreader can be very helpful and save one some time. I put my hubs in Google Docs for my final edit and that does all the proofreading for me.

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       1. 82

          Jayne Lancerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

          I use my Microsoft Word spellchecker and the one provided in the HP text capsule, but they don't seem to pick up embarrassing things like 'your' instead of 'you're'--I found one of those in one of my hubs only this afternoon.

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