Confusion? Really?

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   TIMETRAVELER2posted 10 years ago

   I keep reading posts on the forums about people who are "confused" about adding Amazon capsules, etc. to their hubs and then do not understand how it is that they "followed the rules" and then had their posts unfeatured.  Really?  I do not see any confusion whatsoever about this for those who are here to produce quality articles for people who are interested in their topics and who do not want to b spammed!
   
   I do not care about "who wrote an article with 900 ads and 10,000 words and it is still featured", nor do I care about something Paul may have written that has perhaps more ads than it should.  None of this matters.  If you are a serious writer who wants your articles to be featured and read and also want it to earn money, you need to use a little common sense.  This is not a sales site.  It is a writing site.  You can argue all you like about why you think it is OK for you to spam up your articles, but the truth is that every time you do this you damage HP, the other writers here and yourself.  You say you are confused.  You are angry at HP for causing this confusion.  You are unhappy.  Hey, I'm not confused.  I'm not angry at HP.  I'm not unhappy, either.  Why, because I make money here and use very, very few ads and only where they really are well placed and relevant.  My ads HELP my readers.  They are not there to entice them to buy.  It's time we stop this bickering and foolishness.  You will find that if you dump most of your ads and place the rest appropriately, you will make money, the site will prosper and, guess what...you will no longer be unhappy!  Sorry for the rant, but this gets very old with me.  Google is in charge here.  They have dumped several big writing sites recently and guess what?  Spamming was the culprit.

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      Marisa Wrightposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I do. 
      
      The rule says you can have 50 words per Amazon capsule.   It's very clear and simple.  But experienced Hubbers know it's also wrong, because if you put that many Amazon capsules in a Hub, it will probably be unpublished for being "spammy".
      
      I ask you , what's NOT confusing about that? 
      
      The guidelines about related products, using discretion about the use of capsules etc make sense - but they are just guidelines. 
      
      It completely defies belief why HubPages leaves a rule in place which encourages people to do something they don't want them to do.

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         Millionaire Tipsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         People who are looking for the minimum thing they need to do to get something featured find it confusing.  They want to be told that if they change the "a" to a "the", everything will be all right.  But the rules are made more flexible, so people can have more leeway about what they right.  This does mean, though, that they have to use common sense and think about the reader. 
         
         It is possible to write a hub with an Amazon capsule for every 50 words and be perfectly acceptable.  The products and the links have to be directly related to the topic.
         
         This weekend, we had a lot of Hubbers who showed that kind of mentality - looking for a minor edit that will make everything all right.  They got frustrated when they got links to specific Learning Center articles, the blog, the FAQ, or a grammar checker, even though the links were necessary because the issues were not simple things, and were more global issues.

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            Marisa Wrightposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I doubt if it's possible to write a Hub with an Amazon capsule for every 50 words and be acceptable.  It SHOULD be acceptable in theory, but many ex-Squids have had Hubs like that unFeatured since the new "spammy" guidelines were introduced. 
            
            That's why I say I'm not surprised people are confused.   I wrote a Hub when the Squids came on board, summarising the really essential rules - because if you look at the size of the Learning Centre, Help and FAQ sections, it IS confusing for a newbie to get their head around it.   In fact most of those sections provide guidelines not rules - I found it very easy to fit all the genuine rules into a paragraph but there's no obvious place for newbies to go, to find such a summary.
            
            I think what TT2 is really upset about is not that people are confused, it's that they react to that confusion by being aggressive.

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               Niko Linniposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               I guess that's just the thing with every site, innit? There's always the people who don't bother to read things, they get called for it, and then they're upset they can't do things "their" way and try to skid by with the bare minimum...and then they wonder why they aren't successful or making money.

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                  psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  There's also people sincerely doing their best who are trying to work out was the spam rules changes a month ago mean for them and their hubs. 
                  
                  IMHO that is exactly the kind of thing the forums are here to help with.

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            2. 74

               TIMETRAVELER2posted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Nope, that's not what I'm upset about.  I'm upset about people who do not take the time or use their common sense when producing hubs and then complain loudly  that they have been "picked on" when things go sideways for them and then argue with experienced hubbers when they try to show them the right way to do things.
               
               Someone bragging that they only spend 1/2 hour to produce a hub, indicating that "following rules" is not how they do things and then moaning about low income is what I'm talking about here.  It is these same people who brag that they have done things "this way" for some time without problems until that "dumb Panda thing" showed up...like they're the only ones who have taken a hit.
               
               We had one person awhile back who did nothing but loudly complain again and again about what a crappy site this is because her work was being unfeatured, and she was making less money...but when you looked at her articles many were virtually zero content and all advertisement.
               
               These people are lucky I don't run this place or they would be banned.  We don't need this type of stupidity, ignorance and negativity here, and it is especially heinous because what they do hurts all of us and may one day lead to the demise of HP.  Really upsetting.

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                  Marisa Wrightposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  I know the two people you're referring to, and they made such a song and dance they almost seemed to dominate the forums for a while.  However they are just two people.

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                  1. 74

                     TIMETRAVELER2posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Those were just two examples, and I know you know who they are...but there are others who do the same thing but are not quite so loud about it as those two.

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                     1. 85

                        Marisa Wrightposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        There will always be some people who behave that way, it's never going to go away.  I just think it's become annoying because of those two, and once they've got over themselves, the odd chip-on-the-shoulder  post won't seem so bad.

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      peachpurpleposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      although it says 50 words per amazon capsule, i try to refrain from dumping more than 3

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      1. 74

         TIMETRAVELER2posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Huh?  I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

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      Susan Trumpposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      You say it outright.  I like that in a character.  Keep putting corners on those rough edges.  I like reading you in action.

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      1. 74

         TIMETRAVELER2posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks.  However, you should know that I just cannot help myself...I used to be a teacher and have heard every excuse and seen every manipulation technique in the book, and they really turn me off.  It is one thing for kids to try this stuff, but quite another for someone who is supposed to be a responsible adult.

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   4. 60

      Fred Arnoldposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I never understood the want to place that many amazon capsules in an article anyway. It clutters the Hub up and makes it look like shit.

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      1. 74

         TIMETRAVELER2posted 10 years agoin reply to this

         My point exactly.

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         1. 85

            Marisa Wrightposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Then why does the rule say it's OK?  Doesn't that sound nonsensical to you?

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            1. 0

               calculus-geometryposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               The rules say 50 words minimum to be published and avoid moderation, but they say nothing of  being featured, which is what people really want to know.  http://hubpages.com/learningcenter/crea … d_22670856

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            2. 74

               TIMETRAVELER2posted 10 years agoin reply to this

               I think that rule was written long ago and was never changed.  However, since then, the team has put out numerous announcements about the importance of reducing the number of ads and using common sense when using them.  If people insist only on following the original rule, yes, they would be confused.  However, things have changed, the team has clarified this issue, etc. and it is the responsibility of every writer here to pay attention to what is going on.
               
               I agree the "rule" needs to be updated, but to me the announcements have already accomplished this goal.

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            3. 74

               TIMETRAVELER2posted 10 years agoin reply to this

               This quote comes directly from the learning center.  Although earlier it states you can have a maximum of two ads per capsule (assuming you have 50 words or more per ad in that capsule).
               
               Even if you have enough text to support your product listings, we recommend only adding Amazon and eBay Capsules if they create a richer, more informative Hub. Superfluous capsules can lead to slow-loading pages that drive readers away from your Hub and can hurt your ranking in search results.
               
               There is more, but this points to the fact that, yes, they stated a basis for placing ads, but they also qualified it.  If you are only reading the basics, and not the qualifiers, then you have missed what they are trying to say.
               
               In my way of thinking they could avoid a lot of upset simply by limiting ads to two or three per article.  That would resolve the whole problem.

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      2. 57

         Hicks Daysposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         this one is not clear to me also.

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   5. 79

      colorfuloneposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Nice to see HP changed that to 100 words per sales capsule.
      And, more...

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2. 69

   clivewilliamsposted 10 years ago

   True

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3. 66

   psycheskinnerposted 10 years ago

   The rules about what was considered spam was changed and some people ended up on the wtong side of it.  I doubt the people making inquiries are deliberate inveterate spammers.

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   1. 74

      TIMETRAVELER2posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not so sure that this is true of all of them.  I have seen several instances where even after they have been advised about these issues, they argue with people and/or continue on as before.  These are the ones that most concern me.

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      Susana Sposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Yep this. Plus the rules are not clear cut at the moment...people have to use their judgement and not everyone understands the issues.

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4. 0

   calculus-geometryposted 10 years ago

   But, but, but....someone reading my hub on how to solve a math problem might interested in buying kiwi-scented shampoo on Amazon!  The product description says new and improved formula, and formula is a math word!  Don't dictate to me about my readers' hair care needs!

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   1. 74

      TIMETRAVELER2posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Too funny!  Thanks for the laugh!

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      colorfuloneposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      A lot of people who do math, also use shampoo. Right?!
      And, do not forget the few who drive a Formula 500.

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      1. 66

         psycheskinnerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Or they used a keyword capsule that brought up and odd result, or they were slightly too open about taking advice from "SEO experts".
         
         Doing in incorrect thing does not immediately imply doing so for venal reasons.

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            colorfuloneposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Using keywords in capsules and trusting that is not working for several who have reported on the forums.  -- "SEO experts"
            
            I highly doubt that anyone writing on HP is doing it for corrupt reasons. The money isn't there for that.

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         2. 0

            calculus-geometryposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            The problem now, with the new rules, is that Amazon capsules set with the keyword option are bound to get identified as spammy elements because the products are not chosen deliberately. Their original intention was never to break the rules, but refusing to adapt to the new standard is tantamount to flouting the rules.  Some will get irate and use any convoluted justification for why they should be allowed to keep the links.
            
            Example: the user who vehemently argues that her link to scrapbooking supplies is relevant on a hub about state facts, because the craft supplies' product description has the name of the state, and will call you reading-challenged if you don't see the obvious connection between the two. 

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               colorfuloneposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               You would have to be far from being "reading-challenged" with the topics you tackle.  If it is any comfort, I was sorry to see that happen. (I bit my tongue)

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                  calculus-geometryposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Lol, it doesn't bother me, I thought it was funny.  I honestly hope she gets her hubs featured eventually.

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   3. 83

      PegCole17posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Good one!

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5. 67

   Sue Adamsposted 10 years ago

   JUDY FILARECKI wrote on another thread:
   "you have to have 50 words related to the ad for it to be acceptable, not an ad for every 50 words you write."
   
   That is where people got confused and thought it was OK to stuff sales hubs with ads.

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   1. 74

      TIMETRAVELER2posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Sue: I have never seen this...anywhere, nor do I think it is correct.  I believe what people are told they can do is have one Amazon capsule for every 50 words they write, BUT...and here's where it gets sticky, the ad must be directly related to the context of the article and is best when placed directly beside text that discusses and relates to it.
      
      However, in my way of thinking, one per 50 words, regardless of how you do it, is far too many and people who take these numbers literally wind up loading their articles with ads and having problems.
      
      Common sense tells me that unless you are VERY good at writing articles with ads and placing them correctly, the safest, and I think best, route is to keep ads to a bare minimum.  It has been proven time and again that you get better results with fewer ads.
      
      I think this is true, and here is why.  On Amazon any ad you place serves as a portal into their site, and anything people purchase once they enter that portal, whether related to what you listed or not, results in income for you.  So, why would you place 10 ads about baby seats, for example, when people can click on one, find them all, choose what they want to buy, and then purchase it.  AND...if they decide to shop around and not buy that baby seat, they still might buy a book, a window shade or some other totally unrelated product.
      
      If you place those 10 ads on your site, it (1) makes your hub look spammy (2) gives you a good chance of having problems and (3) either confuses or turns your reader off completely in most cases.
      
      Thus, common sense should tell any writer that doing this is not a good idea.
      
      Some people here are able to intertwine their ads with their content, place more of them, and do well...but they are rarities.  The average writer here is not good at this and thus pays a heavy price when he or she tries to use this technique.
      
      Just sayin'

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6. 58

   hailey pageposted 10 years ago

   ART

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7. 78

   schoolgirlforrealposted 10 years ago

   Well! You sure stated that well! I wasn't aware of this situation, but your argument makes perfect sense!

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