A New Movement for HubPages: Write to Express not to Make Money! :D

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DasEngelposted 8 years ago

This one is going to be fun! What I've observed on the forums is that there are a few, kind of unwritten cliques of hubbers who consider themselves 'experts' in almost everything and kind of try to 'educate' newcomers as if one must submit before them because these veteran hubbers have won Nobel Prizes in literature and now they just use this website to help out the minor leagues!

I'm throwing out a challenge: Let's set up a creative writing competition (more subjects can be added in later, like photography etc) where 'groups' of hubbers compete to win the contest. The term would be that that whichever group wins, they will have to share each prize won equally among the members of that group.

The fun part would this: because everyone has different gifts, I might tie up with a short story writer, and a pro article maker, and a humor genius and create a fast & furious team and end the monopoly of the big brothers and sisters, intellectually. I would love to pick up a decent fight with all the '30 dollars a month Google-slingers' in the new era.
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  theraggededgeposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Would you prefer people not to help others? Should we just congratulate everyone how well they are doing even if they haven't got a snowball's chance in hell of getting their hubs featured?
  
  Who decided that you get to be judge and jury over other Hubbers?
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  littlethingposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Just a question here. I've seen a bunch of your threads popping up on my feed. So far, you have attempted to change or have said these things need change: The layout, the definition of "writer", the featuring/unfeaturing element, the forums where you have asked for help, and essentially the entire business model of the site. So, out of idle curiosity, why are you here? Or still here, as the case may be. The general attitude you seem to have is that of a wet-behind-the-ears recent college grad, who has just entered the workforce telling his boss and coworkers that they are doing their jobs all wrong. Never mind that they've been doing said jobs for 40 years. You've completely ignored the people who have tried to help you. People who have been here much longer and have helped countless others. Why don't you try getting your feet wet long enough to see how things work here before trying to change them. Maybe get a "ten featured hubs " accolade, instead of that "hundred forum posts" accolade. :-)
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  makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  1+++++++++++++
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  TessSchlesingerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  +1
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Creating anything is secondary the main thing is and will always be inspiration.
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  littlethingposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  That still really doesn't answer my question. Lets argue that it does, for a moment. That still means that you came here for inspiration, (not because you wanted to write and create as your primary goal.) and proceeded to call for changes to essentially the entire site. You say you want inspiration and innovation. You haven't been here long enough to see that that's what hubpages has been doing for a while now. Go take a look at the blog posts, and go back a good while. Say a year? That should give you an idea of the sheer number of changes they have implemented. Now lastly, your earlier point about a "decent fight" with the google slingers. You don't seem to understand that this site is a place to build. You don't normally publish one article or story and BOOM! Traffic.Those google slingers have spent years of their life building up their portfolios here. You need to build into a niche here, or publish lots and lots of generalized articles to attract traffic. Plenty of people have written on this, many more experienced than I, and I defer to what they have already written. The question still stands. If you think hubpages should change everything about the site, without you understanding how all this works, why are you here? Why not find a site akin to your tastes? There are sites geared toward people who want to publish creative writing.
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  makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  1+
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I'll give your comment a second read. Bye for now.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  +1
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  theraggededgeposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree. You can have all the inspiration you like but if you don't do something with it, then it isn't worth anything to anyone. Not even you. It is simply a fleeting thought. Creating expresses that inspiration and turns it into something (hopefully) unique.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  but what comes first?
  The chicken! (The inspiration!)
  Without the chicken, there is no egg!
  And without the chicken the egg will not even hatch!
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  theraggededgeposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Of course, but that's not what I said. Your head can be full of all the inspiration in the world but until you act on it, it's just nothing but ideas. Great ideas are priceless but you still have to do something with them. Their value does not become apparent until the creation process takes place.
  
  That chicken will be the last of its kind unless it creates something (an egg).
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I agree.
  But, the initial ten percent comes BEFORE the ninety percent.
  Right?
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  MuellerWordsmithposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Work for free yessiree!
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  suzettenaplesposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I write on HP for the creative expression and outlet. I'll take the money but that is not the motivation for writing on this site. (Not that I make gobs of money here LOL!) I like your idea and you may be able to find a group of people who want to do this. The majority of people probably will not because we all struggle with Google recognizing our work and getting traffic to our sites. If you want others to read your work (and I do) then that is what I focus on here also. I want as much traffic to my articles as possible.
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  gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
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  Dale Hydeposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "What I've observed on the forums is that there are a few, kind of unwritten cliques of hubbers who consider themselves 'experts' in almost everything and kind of try to 'educate' newcomers as if one must submit before them because these veteran hubbers have won Nobel Prizes in literature and now they just use this website to help out the minor leagues!"
  
  Reason I no longer publish here, lol.
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  Jewelsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Way back in the old days - I'm talking the first years of Hubpages, a lot of writers combined the two - their literary prowess because of their degrees and majors, together with fair dinkum heart and soul. You can learn a lot from those literary masters, in fact I used them to help me hone some skills. I don't write for money - I've made the equivalent of two cups of coffee since I joined. I write to express myself.
  
  We did have a great competition one night - yes we used to gather on a Friday or Saturday arvo/night and banter till the wee hours. We had 30 minutes to write a hub - about anything. That's where my Forgive and Forget hub came from. No time to think, just express yourself. Was cool. And I still like what I wrote.
  
  Have Fun
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, having it :-)
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Marisa Wrightposted 8 years ago
DasEngel, you are COMPLETELY missing the point.

Over the years we've had many creative writers and poets here on HubPages. In the days before the Featured/Unfeatured system, it was possible for them to enjoy HubPages even if their audience was small.

Today, poets and creative writers have a much more difficult time: because if a Hub doesn't get enough traffic from Google, it will be unFeatured which means no one can find it.

I ask you, what is the point of writing poems and stories if no one can read them?

You can try to galvanise the creative writers here all you like, it will make no difference - because internal traffic and social traffic do not count.

So, we do NOT have some evil plan to scare off creative writers - we are just trying to give you a reality check.

If you'd prefer to close your mind to our advice, put in hours of effort to create beautiful Hubs, then weep when it all gets unFeatured in six months - be our guest.
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not an internet expert so I can not help you out regarding your techy difficulties and more such. But I can tell you this only those things stay and prosper in life that are in tune with the universal spirit.
  
  It's called freshness and innovation.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  That's why we're trying to explain it to you!
  
  The Featured/unFeatured system is not MY technical difficulty - it will be yours, so you owe it to yourself to understand it.
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  My flash-fiction got its first "comment" yesterday and got unfeatured. I guess it was because it has no advertisements in it.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  So - that will happen to all of them, unless you are able to attract readers from Google. Readers from inside HP, or from Facebook etc, don't count.
  
  That is just the way HubPages works and it's an automated system.
  
  We were all very upset when the unFeaturing system was introduced and it's particularly sad for those people who write wonderful Hubs that have a very small audience. You can say it's not fair and that those writers deserve an audience all you like - it won't change the way it works.
  
  There are plenty of other sites that don't have that system.
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  psycheskinnerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  It's called "something we did here 5 years ago".
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Not everyone did
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  psycheskinnerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "I'm new" is not the same as "my ideas are new".
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Not exactly!
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  TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Marisa: You are talking to a wall that is loving the controversy. Feeding the trolls is always a waste of time.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not worried about feeding the troll, I'm more concerned about other people reading the thread.
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DasEngelposted 8 years ago
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TessSchlesingerposted 8 years ago
Wow! And I thought I had a way of alienating people.

I have the greatest of respect for people who help other people with their hubs. Many people helped me initially and I would not know what I do today if it wasn't for them. I'm very thankful for that.

One cannot 'learn' creative writing. It's a talent. One either has it or one doesn't. Boyd wrote about it in an article in the Guardian today. And I don't recall anyone here boasting about their ability as a creative writer. It's not a site for creative writers. It's a site for writers who want to earn. There are many other sites for creative writers where they don't earn anything except empty admiration.

I'm trying to figure out what it is you want out of your post. You're lacking in some particular aspect and you're hoping to meet up with someone who will compensate for your lack?
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  clivewilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  we have magnificent creative writers here
  http://hubpages.com/@frankatanacio
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  TessSchlesingerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  You are seriously joking. No publisher would accept that because there is no rhythm to the writing. There is a certain word flow that one picks up (just the same way one picks up language) when one reads a lot during one's formative years. If one doesn't get it as a young child, it cannot be developed when one is older - especially if one isn't mixing with people who don't speak the language correctly.
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  Aliswellposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  t. , Don't beat yourself up. Just because you are Not the Only one trying to alienate, You are at the Very Top of my list!!!!
  
  Your attitude via your posts (as interpreted by me) is that you have proclaimed yourself " The Oz" of HP land and to post for any reason outside your view of Reality, Just doesn't really matter!
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makingamarkposted 8 years ago
The problem is Das Engel joined three weeks ago and to date has published ONE HUB!

Posts to date suggest he does not understand the system of how HubPages works and the technical aspects of how Google interacts with the different types of content (ie the facts not the whimsy)

I'm very perplexed by his interpretation of what people are saying to him - particularly his gross level of exaggeration and the notion that people commenting in this forum have some sort of influence!

What I've observed on the forums is that there are a few, kind of unwritten cliques of hubbers who consider themselves 'experts' in almost everything and kind of try to 'educate' newcomers as if one must submit before them because these veteran hubbers have won Nobel Prizes in literatures and now they just use this website to help out the minor leagues!

I'm extremely puzzled as to why he should think a complete novice might get to run a competition and/or how he thinks this might happen.

I'm throwing out a challenge: Let's set up a creative writing competition (more subjects can be added in later, like photography etc) where 'groups' of hubbers compete to win the contest. The term would be that that whichever group wins, they will have to share each prize won equally among the members of that group.

The motivation appears clear

I would love to pick up a decent fight with all the '30 dollars a month Google-slingers' in the new era

I just don't get it? Is this all a big joke - or just the fantasy of an over-excitable teenager ?

I for one can't help thinking DasEngel might get how everything works faster if he spent less time in the forum, read around a bit more re the 'how to succeed at HubPages' and 'the rules' and wrote a few more hubs!
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I'll do, mate.
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  littlethingposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  +1
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DasEngelposted 8 years ago
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Mark Ewbieposted 8 years ago
I thought HubPages was a business not a charity for up themselves creatives.

The best poetry should probably be in someone's desk drawer until they eventually get a girlfriend.
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  makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  1+
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Boy I'm bringing longstanding friends together under this one thread . There is no money when it's merely or only business.
  
  There is kind of a universal principle that ultimately punishes anyone who ignores things like freshness of thought and approach, and creativity. Our school-education systems worldwide is a good example of this.
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  makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  You've only been here 3 weeks!
  
  Your gift for massive exaggeration knows no bounds!
  
  I'm beginning to detect a serious lack of experience of working life.
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Oh you seem to be very good at detecting.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  DasEngel, you make me laugh. If you stop to take a look at Mark Ewbie's work, you'll find he's one of the most creative people you could possibly meet. And he's a perfect example of why we warn creative people about their prospects on HubPages.
  
  If there was any justice in the world, Mark should be making a fortune here with his clever cartoons - but he doesn't, because the system works against him. That's what we're trying to explain.
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Well I did. And their work is good.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  +1
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  Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  LOL!
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  NateB11posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Lol
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Chriswillman90posted 8 years ago
I don't get it, I almost feel like I'm being trolled reading this. Please read the help guidelines and continue to learn and write more hubs, that's all you really need to do on Hubpages.

This whole creatives or newbie vs. experts movement is silly.
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  Suzanne Dayposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  +1
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  Jodahposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  1+
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gmwilliamsposted 8 years ago
Mark is an excellent writer and satirist. He does have the potential to be a multimillionaire with his works. If not here, then in the outside world. He is author material. If he decides to get published, I would purchase his work. The world of content writing is a very exacting world. The most important point is what does the readership want and to cater to that readership.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Just so, gmwilliams - it's question of findng the right platform depending on what kind of writing you do. Various people have been trying to explain to DasEngel and others, that trying to make creative writing/poetry work on HubPages is very challenging, due to the nature of the system here now. They seem to be determined to take that advice as an insult to their writing, goodness knows why.
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Mark Ewbieposted 8 years ago
OK guys - thanks very much!

I'll put you down for one book each and maybe a t-shirt.
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makingamarkposted 8 years ago
Here's an example of a chap (Hugh MacLeod) who I've known for about 10 years - who started with a good idea - which was doodling art with a succinct idea on the back of a business card

he started his blog http://gapingvoid.com/blog/

wrote his book about what happened to him as a result http://gapingvoid.com/services/ebooks-v … gh-macleod

and now he has a business which does proper business http://www.gapingvoid.com

That's how you translate good visual and written ideas into a proper business - a Consultancy + Visual Communications Agency.

Note that it didn't all happen overnight and the end result was also due to a good deal of networking and finding the right people to work with
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  Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for that link - very interesting. A marriage of creative and business. I can't do management speak without vomiting but I am definitely going to work on my cat drawing technique.
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  makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't have to be business - it just needs to be something which appeals to a big enough audience and which can be replicated. I'd have a good poke around his website if I were you - there are a lot of similarities between you. He's now far more 'corporate' than he was at the beginning - there again the business has grown!
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Glad to see you both on the same page, people that we can learn from. Many around here have very similar interests and seems like they weren't aware of that fact.
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  Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  If you toned it down, dropped the memes and adopted a slightly less in your face attitude - you would find this place extremely supportive.
  
  Everyone here is a writer of some sort and mostly trying pretty hard to find a way to 'succeed' in their own particular way.
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I understand all that, Mark. But to be very honest with you, this particular thread will become unintelligible if I remove the memes. They may come across as silly or reactive or proactive, but they are in their specific placements for a reason.
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  Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  OK if you say so. They make browsing in the office a bit of a nightmare. From a distance forum text might look like a spreadsheet or something but a massive pic says "I'M NOT WORKING".
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I tried "work" on my WordWeb 'free edition'. The noun section shows 7 entries.
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  makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  You should try working in real life - then you'd get what Mark is saying!
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I use memes mostly in a non-sarcastic way: the language and the underlying idea is direct. I don't draw memes myself.
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  TessSchlesingerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Mark Ewbie - you and me both. Can't stand business speak.
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  WriteAngledposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Nor me! That is one of the joys of being a freelance, I can avoid both business speak and being "managed". Since I am in the fortunate position of having more work offered to me than I can accept, I have the luxury of sacking clients who insist on using business speak with me. I recently blew one out of the water because they had the temerity to refer to me as "a resource". I replied that I was a human being and a highly qualified professional and as such would not demean myself by continuing to accept work from them if they considered me merely as "a resource". One of the sweet moments in my life
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  gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000!
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  NateB11posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  +1
  
  Can't stand the sterile and condescending tone of managers and business people.
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  NateB11posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I second that!
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  Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for that MAM, interesting!
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  makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I've known a lot of people in the last 10 years who started out doing things online - visually or writing - and a number of them are now full time professionals at what they like doing best.
  
  They share similar characteristics:
  1) talent
  2) persistence - they kept going kept going in the face of adversity and or significant risks (e.g. giving up full-time work)
  3) capacity for hard work - doing LOTS of what they do best
  4) a good plan (not necessarily the first idea they had!) - which in part is down to being aware of what the market is doing / liking
  5) good timing (e.g. avoided peaking too early or missing the boat)
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DasEngelposted 8 years ago
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  WryLiltposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  If you want to get into a "Who's making more money" competition, I'd warn you to beware.
  
  Glad that you're making money off your creative writing though. It's hard to do.
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "A film is never really good unless the camera is an eye in the head of a poet." ~ Orson Welles
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makingamarkposted 8 years ago
Give a teenager access to a 'clever' website https://imgflip.com and you're awash with flip images before you know it!
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WryLiltposted 8 years ago
What's that saying about pearls before swine?

Just assume that members here, Google and most social networks are swine.

Hint: That means go find somewhere you'll be truly appreciated, as opposed to insulted. There are dozens of great creative writing sites, clubs, groups, newsletters etc to choose from.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I don't get it !!!
  I am also baffled! I am also sad!
  
  So, I came to earth just to somehow, by hook or crook, make money?
  I don't think so.
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  paradigm searchposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I bought a flash fiction domain name awhile back and put all my creative writing endeavors there. Traffic was as miserable there as was here and I won't be renewing the domain name. Do you know of any creative writing sites that get decent traffic and share revenue?
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Just write a book from your heart and soul!
  If you write such a book and get it published they will buy it!
  I'm thinking of getting the newspaper again …
  and LP record sales are on the rise!
  The concrete world is still here!
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe Hub Pages could become a publisher of concrete works? combine both worlds somehow?
  HP would have to get permission I suppose, make contact with actual HP "authors".
  
  Some of the Forums threads could be published in book form. I think they would be useful for teachers and highly educational in classroom as prompts for discussions/essays.
  
  Unless I am dead wrong and the concrete world is becoming more and more obsolete. I got that sense as I subbed in a high-school today. I could not get them off their smart phones.
  
  Schools themselves might become obsolete!
  
  If so, excuse my prehistoric thinking.
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LeanManposted 8 years ago
I am becoming inspired to abandon all of my money making online and just go off and throw paint and horse urine at a canvas and publish the results here on HP.. I am sure that I will feel far better for it.. Maybe I can give up my home, family and eating and live as a hermit..

Ahhhhhh... My wife just informed me that I can go live with the damn horse and that she and the kids need the money for the weekly shop - something called food.... And quite frankly I need that beer on a Friday and Sat nights... So stuff it - I will continue to earn money.....

I admire those that do artistic works - but it is a hard area in which to attract traffic no matter what you do.

Artistic works are not something that are found through a search on Google or any other search engine. If you are doing artistic stuff then you have to build a following and an audience online. You have to showcase your talents in front of people who are looking for the sort of stuff that you are doing - it is hard work!!!! You cannot just publish and expect that the visitors will arrive and say how wonderful you are overnight; it took Mark Ewbie weeks!!

Art is in the eyes of the beholder, some times my eyes appear to be defective!! The problem is that Google will see a 5 line, 25 word poem as web spam! A piece of fiction as confusing as they cannot figure out the subject. So far better that a piece of "art" is no-indexed... Then Google does not bother with it and count it as a black mark against the other work on the site.

Whether a piece of art is indexed in Google or not makes no difference to traffic - it will not attract search engine traffic, no one will search for "An Ode to my aunt Gladys who passed away last Thursday" or "101 things to do with horse urine and paint on a wet Sunday afternoon."

HP offers a place for artistic writers and poets, they don't have to - they don't earn money for the site or for themselves unless they are capable of marketing themselves through social media very effectively. Sorry but most internet users are looking for Porn (artistic? but banned on HP), or how to get a red wine stain out of their carpet, or tickets for a show, or a new dog whistle, or want to chat with Mark on Facebook, or want to share their pictures of their breakfast on Instagram or .... Sorry Artists it is a hard cruel world...
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  Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Lol, yeah it took weeks.
  
  I still draw the odd stick man for my fans. As Seth Godin said to me "Always pretend you care Mark".
  
  Wise words. Expensive too.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
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  Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  This is more than you asked for. Sorry.
  
  It's not art. Just doodles.
  
  I started writing on HP five years ago. Needed pics. Everyone said "Gotta have pics". Couldn't get my head around copyright or wading through endless clip-art.
  
  Started doing my own really bad drawings. People liked them!
  
  Hmmmm.
  
  Discovered that vaguely amusing, quirky, occasionally satirical / coarse / stupid writing does not attract views or money.
  
  Also discovered I really enjoyed the 'art' process.
  
  Could I possibly make money from those silly graphics?
  
  I don't know yet.
  
  Re. your question - who is it for? I always keep one eye on potential readers / viewers / buyers. But the stuff I do to SELL does not sell. The genuine stuff does... a bit.
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  WryLiltposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Dude, you've nearly got as many followers as me. I'm guessing you've got more traffic too, which you've hidden the stats on, so I don't feel ashamed of my numbers. Thanks for that. I don't think I could deal with it emotionally - less traffic than a stick figure.
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  Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Oh Wry - I am at less than a million. I took the figures off to become a man of mystery and generate a viral mystique. That will happen soon I expect.
  
  Stick man is not one of the more popular internet search terms.
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  WryLiltposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Shhhhhh.... I'm going to keep believing it was because you hit 10 million and like to look down on us plebs.
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  NateB11posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  This is a weird coincidence, Viral Mystique is my favorite cologne.
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  Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Lol Nate! Thanks for that one.
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  NateB11posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  My pleasure, Mark. I thought you'd like that one.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Oh! I deleted my question because I thought the answer would be obvious Thank you! It wasn't!
  (I had asked if you did your art (stick figures, yes, they are art) for yourself or others in the beginning. I thought you would say for yourself, which is true to an extent, it seems.)
  
  I think we do our writing or our art for the sake of own interest and sense of creativity, but we do need to make money so, why not? We just amp it up and bloom like flowers attracting bees.
  After all,
  There is the good which is for the sake of itself.
  There is the good which is for the sake of something else.
  But, the highest good is for the sake of itself and something else.
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  TessSchlesingerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, have you ever tried applying to the Onion or another satirical magazine? You are that good.
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  Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Tess - you are very kind. I vaguely thought about it a couple of years back but this is my hobby. I don't want deadlines, stress, hassle and so on and I don't want to risk rejection! I am not that good.
  
  I might send a cartoon to Private Eye one day which would be a nice ego trip if they published it.
  
  My current efforts are going into the Zazzle game - learning, playing and seeing what if anything might happen. I am using my site as a place to host my own product which might have some possibilities.
  
  How that might work is...
  
  1. Post various 'articles' - jokes, proverbs, whatever.
  2. Add pictures from that to product likes mugs and stuff.
  3. Put advert for product and link to shop on article.
  
  Makes a change from stuffing Adsense into places it doesn't belong.
  
  Thanks again and sorry to go on. I made my first referral sale through my site yesterday so have a bit of a buzz.
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  TessSchlesingerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  That's wonderful, Mark. At this point, I firmly believe that one has to find a niche and work at it. I like your ideas. I also think that some of your humour would work well on cards, and you might want to approach some card companies. They tend to look at freelance artists and writers.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  ++++++1
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  NateB11posted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Great points, as usual, and a highlight for me was what you said about work on the site affecting the site as a whole. Obviously, admin as well as writers have to think about that because it will do no one any good sailing in a sinking ship.
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passionatelearnrposted 8 years ago
write to spread good information and knowledge.
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DasEngelposted 8 years ago
I would like to add a few more points today because the landscape has changed so much around here. HubPages has unfortunately lost a great many good writers recently. The writers are the life-blood of this site. Why they (writers) chose to become inactive, is a mystery. Leave it at that.

The future of content farms, and other 'writing sites' in general, don't seem to be very optimistic. The only two that stand today are HubPages and Wizzley. And I have doubts how long they may sustain while dealing with all the fluctuations of the advertisement industry that provides them the fund to continue these websites and their operations.

I, personally, hope for the best.
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  TessSchlesingerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Wizzley earns a total of about $3000 a month gross. Take the fact that half of that goes to the owner, and you have about $1500 left for all the other writers. So Wizzley is not a good place to write.
  
  I agree that content writing is going to disappear unless Google realizes the error of its ways. I have to say that I am extremely impressed with the ownership of hubpages in these times.
  
  The real problem is that writers keep writing gratis in order to 'get exposure.' Until they stop that, the world out there is going to keep demanding that writers don't get paid.
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  gmwilliamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  +1,000,000,000,000,000 in agreement!
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  theraggededgeposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Indeed, Tess, many do it here on HP <nods at the title of this thread>.
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, you say it. All?
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Mark Ewbieposted 8 years ago
They are all content farms. Huffington Post, Forbes, BBC News, The Independent - all the sites are using cheap often copied content as click-bait to sell advertising.

That is the model for all now.

The more I write - the more obvious how second rate and generic the quality is on all the other outlets.

The more I think about advertising - the more obvious are the games that even the 'respected' media use. The click-bait. The funnelling.

The second rate shoddy content from fresh out of school working for nothing wannabe journalists.

It is a race to the bottom chasing a decreasing dollar in a saturated market run by the King of Plagiarism - Google.
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  Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Hard to disagree.
  
  Apparently they have robots writing news and sports reports these days: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34204052
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  Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Depressingly true
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  Mark Ewbieposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Ah I didn't really mean to be depressing.
  
  As a reader, consumer of media - yes it is low quality and dropping fast.
  
  As a writer it means that despite the sheer mass of garbage there is still space for content that puts the reader first and delivers.
  
  One day I will write some.
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Couldn't ignore your post. Mr. Ewbie.
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  TessSchlesingerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Buzzfeed is a case in point. Not only is it all clickbait, but advertorial is now mixed in with genuine articles so one cannot tell whether it is objectively written or a promotional piece.
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makingamarkposted 8 years ago
The future for content farms looks dim - based on what has happened to so many to date, the change in the advertising economy (which funds them) and the trends on traffic

The future for writing is fine. Nobody is limited to content sites if they want to write about subjects people are interested in.

I've written "free gratis" and very regularly on my blog for the last ten years. As a result, to date:
* I've been commissioned to write a book (published in UK, USA and Asia by well known publishers in January this year)
* I'm currently writing a major series of articles for a prominent magazine in the UK (starts publishing with the January issue)
* I've created two new information sites with content moved from HubPages which are doing extremely well in terms of traffic (factor of x10)
* and tonight at a book-signing I pitched my idea for another book at my editor and she's interested and wants me to send her the outline.

The point is if you keep your perspective firmly fixed on a content site (which no publisher ever looks at) you won't ever move on to do other things. It's great for people starting out. It gives you a set of rules to work to and tries to inculcate good habits - and that's a good thing.

However there's more to writing content than writing on a content site - and it's also good to explore other opportunities.

I'm very grateful for HubPages for unpublishing and unfeaturing hubs which have always done well in the past which has prompted me to pull out the proverbial digit and get on with creating new sites for my content.

My concern about HubPages revolves around why it would reject content which is now doing extremely well elsewhere.

Does that make people think their content is no good?
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  theraggededgeposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  That's not quite true. Although not reaching your dizzy heights, Katherine, I have been writing for over a year for a publication that pays me quite well and frequently, purely because one of their editors read my work on HubPages. Another publication also reproduced some of my artwork for a PDF magazine, again because they saw it on HP.
  
  I believe others have been similarly 'picked up'.
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  makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  In which case I take it back about publishers not reading HubPages. Although I have to say that is the first time I've heard that happen - hence my comment.
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  Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  It happens, although for me, not as often as it did on Squidoo, Bareback Magazine, or even Associated Content. I get more such offers from old content on my blogs or from people who ask old or current clients how to contact me.
  
  A small flurry of street newspapers have been republishing my assorted HubPages pieces on homelessness lately. Those pieces, my craft pieces, and my aquarium articles get me jobs and reprints no matter where they're hosted. I once even got an aquarium writing gig off of a detailed forum post describing how to raise rotifers and how to feed them to clownfish larvae by size!
  
  If you just keep writing online somewhere people will think you know what you're doing eventually. I'm nothing special and my writing isn't either, but I've kept at it and I've written what I know. I spent the first part of my life sending out paper in the mail and poking my work at publishers. The amount of effort it took to get just a few handfuls of things published that way was intense. Now people approach me. The pay is a lot less per accepted piece now, but the effort is, too.
  
  I don't think content farms are dying, or at least dying out as a phenomenon. The desire to write and share information is too intense in too many people for this type of outlet for it to completely disappear. People could just write for free, but even though the money is peanuts, money has so much meaning for so many. I'd wager that average Americans would consider an article that makes twenty dollars more successful than an article that reaches a million people with a useful message and earns no money.
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  makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I've written for free for 10 years on Blogger
  
  I do agree - it's a lot less effort when people come to you!
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  Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  The difference is that writing on blogger or any other blogging platform is that a daily commitment and a tight niche are both required. You aren't the average Josephine and you're willing and able to put in the time and effort commitment to first get and then keep a readership. Most people aren't.
  
  You have a superior artistic talent and superior communication skills plus you are a good marketer and promoter. Most of us average people don't have all of those talents and skills in that combination. Creating and working a popular blog is a business or at least it's a lot like a business. We all know businesses are not easy.
  
  The idea of Internet sharecropping will pop up over and over again. It may eventually become more common in a co-op sort of format, but the idea of writers sharing space, profit, and the skills of talented promoters and technical experts is very old and has phased in and out of popularity for more than a hundred years. Humans aren't going to change that behavior just because people in the early infancy of the computer age (right now) did things poorly a few dozen times doing the same old thing online. It's entirely possible people will figure out how to do it more successfully.
  
  Cooperative self-publishing is not a lousy idea. People get better at doing things, too.
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  TessSchlesingerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "You have a superior artistic talent and superior communication skills plus you are a good marketer and promoter. Most of us average people don't have all of those talents and skills in that combination." That's a killer assessment. Exactly right. It's the combination of skills. Most of us don't have them.
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  makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  You have to work hard to get them!
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  TessSchlesingerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Some of it is innate. And I didn't work hard to become a good writer. In fact, I didn't work at all. I was published by the time I was 10 or 11 and I won my first creative writing prize when I was 18. I didn't work at all of it. Never have. It's just a talent. My point is that things that our talents are often innate. Not much hard work required.
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  makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the compliments Kylyssa!
  
  I think the co-operative notion has some mileage. It's very interesting that post Squidoo a number of people set up small groups to collaborate and create that critical mass to get things going.
  
  I'd always made my sites in clusters around a mega niche topic so I was always going to have enough content to make a website. (I had a response to a query of mine from Weebly saying "You've got 72 pages on that website!". I haven't had the heart to tell them there's a lot more still to add in!)
  
  For me the factor that makes the biggest difference is that you really have to be interested in your topic - because that's what it takes to remain "on topic" for years and still interested!
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  TessSchlesingerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  MakingAMark - "you really have to be interested in your topic"
  
  That is true. And my problem is that there isn't a single topic in the world that interests me that much. Single topics just become boring for me after a while.
  
  I've been aware of this for some time. Don't know how to fix it.
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  theraggededgeposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Tess - your life-long topic is 'writing'. If you've been writing all your life, then that's your field of expertise
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  TessSchlesingerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  theraggededge, yes, suppose it is. I just look at all the other people who are writing about writing, and am not sure they need one more.
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  theraggededgeposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  We always need one more - you have a unique perspective that no other writer will have. Share your process and make your fortune!
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  TessSchlesingerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
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Bronwyn Joy Ellioposted 8 years ago
I have made enough for one jelly bean. It is a good thing that I write for the fun of it, not the money!
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  how much is one jelly bean?
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  20 cents? I've no idea about your economy etc. 1 dollar is 60 rupees by the way. Currently.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  uh huh … D. E.
  I wonder how much one word is worth?
  - probably less than a jelly bean, in that case.
  Way less.
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  You're getting above my head these days
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I should be by now. :-)
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Good night!
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  OK, I get it now. By internet usage that would equal to. . . +electricity and etc
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Deleted
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Tough question that one!
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  ( ! )
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
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  Bronwyn Joy Ellioposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  2 cents Australian at our local milk bar. Mind you, we have not had 2c coins for decades. You have to buy 5 for 10c!
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  DasEngelposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Haha!
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