HUMAN MIND vs. ANIMAL MIND

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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
What are the differences in the animal mind and the human mind? Why is the human mind elite to all other known life?
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Cause it's in your head.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Explain
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Prolly cause humans are the only ones to make this distinction based off assumptions. I don't know if I would call it elite.
  
  Seems to me that all the other animals communicate just fine yet humans have a very hard time understanding anything.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If animals are so smart, why do they get run over and shot by hunters? Can you make a serious arguement that animals are as smart as humans? lol
  
  If fish are smart, why do they chomp down on shiny fishing lines with hooks on them?
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  kbloverposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Because intelligence's effectiveness is based as much on experience as it is raw "IQ" for lack of a better way to put it.
  
  If I put an intelligent scientist in front of a canvas and asked him or her to paint me the most awesome anime character ever - if he fails, is he dumb? No.
  
  Likewise, animals do not understand the human world innately. They have to learn through experience, and some things, they don't get second chances - like cars and hunters and fish hooks can kill.
  
  Intelligence being evaluated based on something WAY out of their realm is not fair to the animal anymore than me judging a scientist's intelligence on if he/she can paint or not.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Excellent point made. Gave a completely different perspective. Leave it to the stoner. Love the profile name.
  
  Again, excellent job. Do you think all minds are equal, human and animal? If so, explain please.
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  andromidaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think animals fight lesser than humans.They don't much developed intelligence except a few, that makes them instinctive by nature.Sometimes I feel they also might fall in deep love with other species.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Didn't we cover this in one of your threads yesterday? Or maybe it was the day before?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How can it be covered already? If it was covered, there would be no debate on God or evolution.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh sorry....I thought we had a thread yesterday concerning when humans actually "achieved sentience"...
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know lol . I wanted to make one to concentrate on the link in the chain that I think seperates us. Maybe there is nothing that seperates us.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well there are certainly differences, but that isn't necessarily to say that we are superior. I mean we are at the top of the food chain so to speak, but does that automatically make us the best? With the crap I've seen from humanity lately, (hell for most of history), I would think that the innate "urges" of some of the "lower" life forms are almost more acceptable...LOL!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You do have some valid points. Would you not agree that our thoughts are the most complex?
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Most certainly...at least as far as we know.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you not think this is odd?
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Could mean that being more rational is not in our best interests! Too much thought can lead to a justification for our actions beyond survival.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  what? lol
  
  Justification for our actions beyond survival?
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There are many things we do that has nothing to do with survival.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well consider ants. They live collectively in a tight-knit, well-organized community. Each performs his or her job. They can lift and carry things 10 times their own weight. Maybe they are also very intelligent and look at us as being nothing more than those giant, dumb ass oafs that keep stepping on them. Hell we don't know what an ant thinks...
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ant Psycology, I like it. One last thought before zzz, compare the most complex animal life to the least complex human life? Would it ever be possible for the animal to learn as much as the human in it's life time?
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know marine...but like I said, if you have ever checked out Aya Katz's Hubs on her chimp, it is possible...
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I bet they will be quite interesting to you since you are thinking of this question
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey I try never to step on an ant. After all....that's what all Christian fundies come back as when they are re-incarnated! HAHA!
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh my dear, you have been mislead... they come back a "rock".
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL!
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Or extremely confused.
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I certainly agree with this. We are such smucks. Regardless of whether we made choices based on right and wrong, survival or a sentient sense of mankind, we are still a pack of smucks who are no closer to making sure everyone is fed and clothed. So Elite needs to be put into context. It's our standpoint on what constitutes elite.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We did but I guess we forgot to ponder when other animals achieved this too.
  
  I know my dog knows herself in the mirror... anyone elses dog achieve this too?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is your dog the wizard?
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Only on Halloween! lol
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Does he chase jakalopes?
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Often the animal will see the image as a predator and cannot cognize that it is themself.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  or it falls inlove with itself.
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL. Keep it amused for awhile.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, yes... when the chedda' is on, the chedda is on!
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Was really funny, just recently there was this lifestyle show with gardening and a vet and all that. Anyway these people just moved into a new home and they had mirror doors on the wardrobe. The cat could now see it's reflection for the first time.
  
  Because the cat had always had it's own territory, the cat took this new member of the household as the enemy and proceeded to go ape everytime it saw the image. Even when the cat hit it's face up against the enemy it still couldn't get the connection.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! As long as the cat didn't start "marking its territory" in front of the mirror, I would have found that quite entertaining!
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Have you ever seen Bella and Tara? This is cute.
  
  http://atlantis2.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4696315n
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How friggin cool is that!
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know huh! Makes you wonder if there is some truth to the old saying... Love everlasting.
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  manlypoetrymanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well...marine always...my dog's at home kicked back on a his pillow trying to balance the heat from sun ray's out of the window...against the coolest spot on the tile floor...before his next nap. Meanwhile, I'm working away to keep us all in groceries (ie...dog food) and air conditioning. So...I'm Not sure...who's the smartest one at the moment?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not all dogs have the good life as shown with the Michael Vick dogs. It is the owner that is smart to keep the dog inside in the AC, not the dogs choice.
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  anjalichughposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's what we humans think. Ask an animal and he might say this....."An idiot is a genius to another idiot."
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annvansposted 15 years ago
Marine, close the thread down....no one knows!....lol
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lol I want answers
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You'll have to ask another animals since the human kind cannot answer either.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe the human mind can if enough minds attempt.
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annvansposted 15 years ago
Yeah, so forget any answers here. Look it up in the dictionary or something....lol

Oh, I forgot I wasn't in the SARCASTIC thread..lmao
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lol did you really think you were in the wrong thread?
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Colebabieposted 15 years ago
Humans are animals.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, but not all think like animals.
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Colebabieposted 15 years ago
Are you asking about the brain? Like what are the differences between varying species' brains?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, all comparisons.
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annvansposted 15 years ago
Here is your answer....We are elite because we need to be. Animals do not need to have a mind like we have as they do not drive cars and go to college.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why? Why is our mind favored over theirs?
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annvansposted 15 years ago
Did you read my answer?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, they can't drive. Why not?
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annvansposted 15 years ago
There is no need, no need, no need. That is the answer to both questions now.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why is our lives more important than animal life?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lol nice
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Colebabieposted 15 years ago
The cerebral cortex is different in different species. So in non-mammals the top is covered with a layer called the pallium. In mammals, it is covered by the neocortex. Then in primates, like humans, apes and monkeys it is much much larger making a bigger frontal lobe. The frontal lobe is in charge of most functions that primates can handle while other species cannot.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What our the differences between our minds capability and the monkey or chimps capability?
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  annvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That I do not know.
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annvansposted 15 years ago
Our lives are not more important. We just do different things. All this is like asking why animals don't drive. They have no need to do the things we do since they are animals. Animals can smell for miles away and do other things we cannot and they are just as important as we are.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm asking why our minds do not compare with any other known life. The animal is just for comparison. It's not logical because there is no known mind close to ours.
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  annvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Our minds do not compare with other known life because that is the way we were made and there was a reason for our minds to be the same because we do different things. Whether it is an animal or a alien we will have difference in brain because we are totally different in the things we do and the way we live.
  
  Would you want the same brain as a grasshopper? Think about that and you will know why we are different brain wise.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "Our minds do not compare with other known life because that is the way we were made"
  
  Why and by who made us this way? If you say someone made us this way, this would be intervention.
  
  "there was a reason for our minds to be the same because we do different things"
  
  No 2 individuals have the same mind as animals follow a set pattern of nature. Why were we made to follow with thought rather than nature?
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Colebabieposted 15 years ago
It has to do with genetics, and how those genetics contribute to the development of the brain. Although all primates brains are similar, those of humans are genetically and therefore structurally a little different.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for all the info. What is the link that the chimp mind doesn't have?
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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
If it is realistic to say that no other known life has a mind close to our capability, how does this not disprove evolution? If our minds "evolved", why were "we" the only minds of life to evolve? Why wouldn't any other animal mind evolve as well? This is not logical to me. It appears as intervention.
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Colebabieposted 15 years ago
Yes, it is realistic to say that no other brain has evolved to have the advanced capabilities of a human. However, many animal brains have evolved, very far as well. We are not the only species to have a brain that has evolved.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I can agree with that statement somewhat. Why have no animal minds evolved as much as the human mind?
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  Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  An animal's brain adapts to what is necessary. So alligators have big olfactory bulbs so they can smell. Humans have bigger vision cortexes to see. Birds have pattern recognition. Some species develop faster.
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  annvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Very good, you are so right!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why hasn't chimps minds evolved?
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annvansposted 15 years ago
It is logical because those things you are referring to as other life need not have a brain like ours and we do not need a brain like a roach as they cannot drive and go to college...lol
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Colebabieposted 15 years ago
Think of it as working out. When you work out your muscle gets bigger right? So if you use a part of your brain more, it is stimulated more.
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Colebabieposted 15 years ago
Nature has made us this way. And we are not the only animals who can learn and follow thought. "No 2 individuals have the same mind" Um neither do animals.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Animals do have the same mind. They follow natures pattern. I have never seen an animal speak or write.
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  Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I understand that other species do not have the same brain as humans. But no two animals have identical brains. There was an article in Science that was really good at explaining primate brain evolution. It was called "Gene Activity Clocks Brain's Fast Evolution". It basically explains that while we have minor genetic differences the differences in our brains are not due to the genetic changes but rather how active those genes are. Changes have occurred in the human brain much faster than in the primate brain.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why are they faster? Why out of all the life on earth aren't any of the animal minds close to ours capability considering some have been here longer than us.
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Colebabieposted 15 years ago
They have.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Can they speak or write?
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Check out Aya's hubs on her chimp...
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annvansposted 15 years ago
What the hell you think we are trying to make us answer all these questions....lol

God made us like this, we go on thought cuz god wants us to.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why doesn't he want other animals to think? If you are saying God intervened, this would discount evolution.
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annvansposted 15 years ago
Ding! I don't know what evolution is. I do not study it, dont want to.

Maybe animals have no need to think like we do while they are out gathering food for their family. We are made to work in the workplace and they are hunters.

Sometimes animals do things like we do when they watch us they can catch on. In some ways they do things like us when given the need to. Like catching a frisbie.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "We are made to work in the workplace"
  
  Absolutely not true in my case. I refuse to work in the "workplace" my entire life.
  
  Why can't they talk when we talk and write when watching us write?
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  annvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Now before you go off, dogs can talk. Sure they can write if we teach them. Maybe not as well as us because they are not really meant to, but they can. More complicated things like driving cars maybe not. They can skateboard.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are these comparisons logical to the capability of the human mind?
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annvansposted 15 years ago
Do you really think a grasshopper needs the same brain as an alligator?
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Colebabieposted 15 years ago
Ok well I do study evolution. That article is really good, you should read it marine, it is very interesting. And evolution is what causes a grasshopper to not have the same brain as an alligator.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Explain the evolution with the grasshopper please. I will read if I can find it. Thanks
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Colebabieposted 15 years ago
The best way I can think to explain evolution of the human brain (which is really really complex) I am but a mere undergrad is think of it as in the last 50 years how has human life changed? Dramatically right? With technology and other advances? Well humans have been around for a long time. So why the drastic change in the last 50 years?

At a point in time there was a big boost in gene expression for the human species. Exactly when, or why? Can't tell ya that
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "Exactly when, or why? Can't tell ya that"
  
  Lol, thats the part i'm getting at. You have posted some good information.
  
  Do you think the boost was intervened or evolution? I'm not really talking about the last 50 years although it has been huge. I'm talking about the first point where human mind seperated from animal mind.
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Colebabieposted 15 years ago
I obviously don't know for sure. But I think evolution.

The article I mentioned says that they studied the gene expression of humans, chimps, macaques and orangoutangs. The gene expression between humans and chimps varied, while chimps macaques and orangoutangs were similar. So this suggests that the human brain began to develop much faster than other primates. And it was after humans and chimps separated from a common ancestor. - according to the article
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Colebabieposted 15 years ago
Let me also say that I appreciate no one coming in and breaking up our scientific conversation with personal thoughts. Thanks guys!
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I second this. lol
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tickledpearposted 15 years ago
I wouldn't say that the human mind if greater than an animals because when it boils down to it we are animals as well. Sure we are able to build superior things and are on the top of the food chain. Nonetheless, all animals were created with thought processes that would make it optimal for survival.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you saying there is an animal as smart as you are that isn't human? Which animal would this be?
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  Colebabieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think smart could mean many things. There are definitely animals that are smarter than me when it comes to a lot of things!
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
There is nothing new under the sun, all keeps revolving. You are just not long enough here to see this.

Yet it feels you've been here for ages - good blending into community, you can write an ebook on that
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The only reason you see nothing new is because you look for nothing new. I learn something new every day.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, there is another reason - I might have lived a bit longer than you, so I had more chances to see things repeating themselves
  
  But actually I was referring exclusively to Hubpages forums here, as it is really amazing how topics tend to repeat themselves on a regular basis
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  Eaglekiwiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  after 2yrs ,topics would repeat ,but to new people ,hey its new.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed. I couldn't get any answers on the other thread when I posed the question, this is why I posted to a thread.
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Jewelsposted 15 years ago
There is a model by Rudolph Steiner called subtle bodies, the fourfold model, which has been developed further by Dr Samuel Sagan in the use of developing subtle bodies. The model breaks down the differences between the dense physical element such as rocks, to etheric - plants, astral element - animals and humans. Another way of putting it is:

a physical body
an etheric body
an astral body
an Ego (in the model Ego relates to transformed thought and spiritual evolution - huge context with this)

The difference between humans and animals is the ability to cognize the spiritual.

In the above model a rock is physical but has no etheric (life force). A plant has an etheric body, but no ability to think - astral body. An animal has physical, etheric and astral - as animals do think and have emotions. But only humans have the ability to have compassion.

Before you say "but my dog loves me." understand that the animal kingdom is primarily survival of the fittest. It will learn quickly how to survive. A trained animal/pet knows how to get fed, knows how to get attention, how to get patted. Knows how to protect against harm if their young is threatened and if they've been trained to protect they will protect based on learned behavior and the reward they will get for doing it. But everything is conditional.

There are ideas around that animals are part of a group soul, but there is no individual cognition of a separateness of spirit.

There's something for the mix.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you think our minds were created or evolved elite to all other life known?
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You will never get the answer to that. You can find out the differences but not the why. Why is that all unanswerable question that everyone asks but never gets the answer to. It's why philosophy exists.
  
  Like with what Colebabie says about the brain differences, you can look at all the comparisons and in time there will be allot more rational explanation of the differences.
  
  One notable difference is the verticality of the spine, and I think humans as well as the bird, or some bird species has a vertical larynx. Interesting how the parrot can be taught how to speak our language. They may not understand it, but they can mimic it. Verticality by the way is a major element in doing meditation, so a vertical spine has relevance.
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Eaglekiwiposted 15 years ago
Human minds have the ability to reason.

Animal minds work on instinct.
( which is why they never have committee meetings either)
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marinealways24posted 15 years ago
How can evolution of humans be considered fact by so many if no one can prove why the human mind is elite to all other life? If our minds simply evolved, why have no other minds evolved at our pace? Is this logical in evoloution to say our minds evolved when no other minds evolved no where close to our pace?
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Elite meaning superior? That's subjective and perhaps measured by what can and cannot be done. We are only superior as reasoned from our standpoint.
  
  Is it genetics?
  
  Is comparing apples with oranges relevant to our evolution?
  
  Is our level of logical reason the reason we evolve differently?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe all of them. And yes, I think it is obvious in my belief that no animal is close to our minds capability. What reason do you think we are at the top of the food chain? I think a "deer" would see a "hunter" elite if the hunter was shooting at the deer. I don't see the deer trying to reason with the hunter on why he doesn't want to get shot. Why are we the hunters and not the deer?
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank goodness I'm not a deer.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lol me too. Or a hunter. They sometimes shoot each other.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank goodness I am not the hunter.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lol that wasn't very nice.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Umm, never seen a hunter reasoning with a deer either. Does it prove anything?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It proves that the deer can't reason.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As much as a hunter i guess?
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  True, especially the ones that hunt for sport.
  
  Some still prefer to live in caveman era.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I thought cavemen actually hunted for food
  
  On a side note, I have a family of deers in my backyard. They got a baby not long ago, and baby deer and mother are often chasing each other. So cute
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  People still hunt to eat also. This would make them cavemen. We do have "grocery stores".
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  While I don't hunt myself, i won't get on a high horse about it. What you buy in grocery store and what you kill yourself are altogether different animals (LOL pun was not intended, yet looks like fun ).
  And, I tend to think that in very near future we will have to re-learn hunting, as there will be much less grocery stores if any at all
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Till they start taxing that too.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yea! bring on the "Red Dawn" revolution!
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I forgot about that movie.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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onthewritesideposted 15 years ago
Jewels,

I understand where you are coming from, and I assume you believe in re-incarnation, correct?
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes - there you go, found it! Yikes.
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onthewritesideposted 15 years ago
Hey Jewels, you didn't answer my question. Do you believe in re-incarnation?

She must know this is a set-up for a long oratory....
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I do. Sorry I missed your question - I'll try and find it! Sorry I'm multi tasking again.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No problem Jewels!
  
  I was really just looking for an excuse to give my opinion on the matter anyway...
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It answers allot. Easier to bode with it than against it.
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sandra rinckposted 15 years ago
Maybe we are so far behind we attribute our "reasoning" to mean we are more complex...

Well what if the animals already been through this and figured it out? They must be thinking we are 'stupid".
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Quite possibly Sandy
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It would certainly explain why they feel the need to run from us.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I won't blame them
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onthewritesideposted 15 years ago
The way I look at it, energy can be neither created nor destroyed. So the "energy" that we all consist of has to "go somewhere" when our physicalities cease to be. But that "energy" is at the sub-atomic level if not smaller.

So I imagine it as that "energy" being re-united with the collective "all-that-is" energy...a giant pool of energy, if you will, from where everything came and everything returns.

So imagine your "energy" as being a handful of marbles. Each "marble" has a certain piece of the "essence" that was you...but not all of you. Those "marbles" get thrown into a gigantic pot full of other marbles. Then when something else needs life energy to be "born", it dips into the "pot" and pulls out a bunch of "marbles". Maybe ONE is one of yours. So the new entity takes on the persona of a multitude of different "energies", with one of those being a part of your former self. If the new entity is "aware" enough, it might be able to detect your previous "life" through the one "marble", but in all actuality, it will probably just go on living as most of us have, not knowing anything about our "pasts".

That's kinda the way I see it...
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's very complex to get your mind into different states of consciousness
  
  I can certainly see and cognize the continuum of consciousness and the changing of forms, I've done this in meditation and regression. It's a hoot and beautiful experiences.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I've never personally done any of that, but I do have a very dear friend who goes OBE regularly (or so he says). Interestingly, he was the son of a preacher and wants nothing to do with the church. He is, however, a very spiritual person, and feels much the same way I suspect you do concerning different "dimensions" and "densities".
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Shows spirituality is beyond church. I like your friend already. Though I don't use the term dimensions - it doesn't gel with me at all and apparently won't help in the science forum either. I'd prefer to say spaces. You know when you go into these states of consciousness, there is no physicallness at all. It's the same as experiencing consciousness in the dream state. You know you have a body, but you're not using it in the same way. OBE - you've left the body. Shows consciousness does not need a body. That's easy to understand and easy to experience. Just have to slow down the process enough to understand it.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  True. And my bud hates the term "dimensions" as well. He prefers to describe it as just a higher level of ourselves...
  
  or in other words, getting back to the "collective creative consciousness" that we all stem from...
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm liking him more!
  
  See - who needs drugs.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! He's a cool dude. He is actually is an author too. He wrote a book called "The Gnostic Papers---The True Mysteries of Christ". I know it sounds religious, but believe me, it is anything but...
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You know, I have these OBE all the time but didn't recognize them until someone told me what it was.
  
  Sometimes they are too much for me. Actually I have this particular experience that scares me every time.
  
  I experience what is (maybe you can fill in the blank for me) were in my dreams I am levitating. At times I can control how far I would like to go but there is always something holding me back.
  
  Sometimes it literally (because it feels absolutely real) feels like I am being pulled back down. I never know whether or not it is my own personal fears of being lifted or something else.
  
  Anyways, even though there isn't anything particularly scary about it; I often do this thing were I start yelling at myself to wake up. Then I start repeating phrases until I can say them in real life and get myself up.
  
  I guess in a way it feels like if I go any further I will die.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ive had those too, but very infrequently. I wish I had them more. This is exactly what an "OBE" is supposed to feel like, I guess, but the trick is to not try to control it and just let it go. If you get too "consciously controlling" of what you want to happen, you'll wake up. But if you can learn to control it just enough "consciously" to where you can decide where you "want to go", I guess the trip can be quite cool. I've never lasted in one more than a few seconds once I realized what was going on...
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  wonderful, we must skype.
  
  Is interesting the interface we experience when leaving can be scarey. I think this is the beginning of our fear of falling. Some phobias are not logical, someone who has not experienced falling but has a fear of falling is not rational - this can explain why the fear in the first place. It's our consciousness that pulls us back into the body. If our main standpoint of consciousness if from the body then when we leave it and change our standpoint, it's unfamiliar territory and as such fear steps in. It's fear of the unknown. Not uncommon. Go Sandra, try and push this.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for adding the thought. What about those that live bad lives that are negative energy? Does the chain spit them back out or recycle them?
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onthewritesideposted 15 years ago
"Two living creatures that somehow manage to look past their immense differences...". That line says it all!
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sandra rinckposted 15 years ago
One day...one day...
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We can only hope!
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onthewritesideposted 15 years ago
It's interesting to note that it was just that elephant and that dog. The rest of the dogs and elephants didn't want anything to do with each other...
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well that's what I am saying... love everlasting. Maybe there is some truth to re-incarnation or the immense complexities of love.
  
  When you think about it, it seems to drive people. Building lasting connections. The need to live on for reason I assume come from the deepest part of all living creatures.
  
  The need to be with them or in other words... soulmates. Maybe?
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yea that's what I was going to say...maybe there is something to the whole "soul mates" thing...
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sandra rinckposted 15 years ago
I know right, but that's just it. It scares me too much. I have other such OBEs but those don't really freak me out.

I once made it to the ceiling before I decided I didn't want to go any further.
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I've actually got to the point where I sense myself zooming outside at like light speed...but then I get too excited "consciously" and wake up...
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Have you had the buzz yet? Like tv static?
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No I can't say that I have, however I do sleep with a fan on so maybe that drowned it out!
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL, be careful when you float above you don't hit the fan. You may get chopped up.
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yihaw! Ride em cowgirl. This is the beginning of astral travelling.
  
  Dreams are not the same as this. Promise.
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
WTF you are talking about guys? Flying in dreams being OBE?
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! yea Misha...somehow we got on a tangent...
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This is a great tangent. About time I found some people really going for it.
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
LOL I don't mind you going off-top, I've ruined quite a few threads myself, I can't understand the linking of unconscious dream to a conscious OBE. Am I missing something?
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  They are different states of consciousness. When astral travelling or having an OBE, you are very conscious of it. When dreaming you are in the dream state. Some people can recall the dream when awake, others can't. Either way it's not consciousness at the time of the event. For it to be conscious you would have to see that you were dreaming when the dream was occuring.
  
  Astral travelling is like you are out of your body, you see the body on the bed, you see you are not in it, yet you are fully conscious.
  
  With Sandra, in the beginning, stay just at the ceiling until you can stabilize yourself. No need to do anything else but to be there. Retain the consciousness until you no longer fear it.
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
Shit, teach me gals, I wanna do that
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Imagine all the female Hubbers you could "drop in on"!
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hahaha. Yes, just make sure you knock first!
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  onthewritesideposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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sbeakrposted 15 years ago
my favorite thing to do on hubpages is find an eye-catching forum topic, read the first page or so of responses, then skip to the last page to marvel at whatever digression has proved dominant. particularly noteworthy is this tangent in a discussion that started out with a dichotomy between the 'human' and vaguely named 'animal' brain...

yummy.
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
K, nobody wants to teach me flying, guess it's time to hit the sack

Night everybody
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Happy flying Misha. It starts with attempting to stay conscious between the waking and sleep state. Practice that first. There is a transition phase between the two. Then if you catch yourself moving upward don't panic, stay conscious. Report back when you've reached this phase.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Julie, will give it a try.
  
  Am I supposed to do this when going to sleep or when awakening? Or even somewhere in between?
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Both Misha. Going to sleep is the most common time. But to master it try both ends of the sleep experience.
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manlypoetrymanposted 15 years ago
True...very true. But then one could also say that the Michael Vicks of this world are closer to an Animal Mind set...to begin with.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree to an extent. I have one question, if someone was raised fighting dogs to think it was ok, would they still know it was wrong? I am not covering Vick, it was a sick act. I have 2 dogs myself. Just trying to see what he could have been thinking or not thinking being a millionaire risking everything.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well you certainly know that not all humans have the same personalities, right? Therefor...
  
  .... finish the next part of this.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  lol hell I don't know, never been a good guesser, I will give it a shot.
  
  not all have the same mind would seem like the logical answer.
  
  So why didn't Michael Vicks mind evolve beyond how he was raised?
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know who this dog is but it seems that everything with a mind is influenced. A dog doesn't need to read a book to learn just as humans don't have to read an insult to know it was insulting.
  
  Ever try to teach an old dog new tricks? Ever try to tell an 80 year old man well set in his ways that he is wrong?
  
  Seems to me that all animals including humans are capable of stubbornness. We might not all reason the same ways but we all achieve the thought in the same way.
  
  It's not so hard to understand.
  
  Your a marine. I am assuming you went to marine training. I am almost positive they would have drilled certain things into your mind so that when out on the battle field and "flustered" over an unforeseen situation, you would be able to still react, right?
  
  They were training you right? Okay, the same things apply with dogs as well.
  
  Did you ever notice in boot camp; the smaller men left bigger and the bigger men left smaller achieving a sort of uniformity?
  
  Think about it.
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh but you brought up a good point about breeding. Perhaps you could so how this applies to the human mind too.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think I see what your getting at. Maybe that some animals do a better job of rasing the young than a lot of humans do. That is an excellent point if thats what you were getting at.
  
  I would like to add, most human minds have a choice to act as a human or an animal. How many animal minds have the choice to act as a human mind?
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  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OH!!!! You haven't met Oliver yet.
  
  You are gonna love this.
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C6NkRUbI38
  
  -edit- I just found this too... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4Z0xn4p … re=related
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, I will give it to you, Oliver is pretty cool. I don't know if I would call him the missing link because he walks like a human. I read that the chimp is 98.6 percent the same as us. Why didn't Oliver have the 1.4 percent? Why are there no chimps that are 99 or 99.5 the same percent as us? I also do not see why he is the only one of his kind. Why wouldn't there be more?
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GeneralHowitzerposted 15 years ago
The mind of humans are far superior than that of animals, but sometimes humans thinks worse than animals why, since were on the top of the food chain, some humans abuse nature by polluting the only planet we live in, illegal logging, etc. and slaughter endangered animal species for their meat,skin, fur or just for the fun of doing it.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Especially illegal lodging
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  generalhowitzer wrote>>> yeah it is nyahahaha, thanks for the remarks hehehe i deserve your teases though, i crossed the line and im sorry for it, im letting the moderator get rid of the thread i made earlier with. thanks for showing me the way, i overlooked the forum rules but i think you're getting harsh i posted in your fanmail sorry already. i'm still new here please give me the benefit of the doubt sir.
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
Are you giving any benefit of the doubt to animal minds?

Go read this, can come as a shock to you http://hubpages.com/hub/Bow-and-Literacy

And no, this has nothing to do with your spam thread, just illegal lodging was too good to let it pass
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I have to say, I am still not a believer. This still does not explain the 1.4% difference.
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lainposted 15 years ago
Every species is elite from their own point of view.
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  marinealways24posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know about that. What about an animal running from a hungry tiger? I don't think the animal running would be thinking it was elite.
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Healeyposted 15 years ago
Very interesting discussions. I especially enjoyed the tangents into OBE's, astral travel, etc.

Re: animal vs. human minds. Aya's Hubs on Bow's progress with language are really amazing. Similar studies have been done by Irene Pepperberg and her African grey parrots, and Louis Herman with dolphins. In Louis Herman's studies, he was able to show that dolphins understand syntax. If I'm remembering the article I read correctly, the dolphin was able to distinguish between the sentences "Take the trainer to the surfboard" and "Take the surfboard to the trainer." Irene Pepperberg's parrot Alex could be handed a simple item he'd never seen before and be able to correctly identify what it was made of (wood, paper, etc.) what color it was and even what shape.

Personally, I have anecdotal evidence of animals planning for future events. When I was training animals, I worked with a man who had trained killer whales and he related a number of stories about these animals that were pretty impressive. For example; they trained all the whales on a 'retrieve.' Basically the animals were trained to go find anything in the pool and bring it back to the trainers. Park visitors were always dropping things into the pools, seagulls would drop things; big pools, lots of water, detritus ends up on the bottom. Instead of suiting up and scuba diving for it, they'd send the whales to get things.

The use of the 'retrieve' signal was randomized; it might be given six times a day, it might not be given for three days. Whenever the signal was given all the whales, except one, would race around the pool, looking for something to bring back to the trainers. The one, a female, would always make a beeline for one spot in the pool, then race back to the trainers with her item for her reward. What they discovered, was this one female killer whale was stashing things she found in the pool into an outflow pipe. So she had a supply of items to take back when the 'retrieve' signal was given.

This whale had to have enough rational thought to be able to conceive that:
1. The 'retrieve' signal would be given again at some point in the future.
2. The trainers would be giving a reward for completing the 'retrieve' behavior.
3. If she was able to complete the 'retrieve' she would get the reward.
4. If she didn't have to search the pool she would get the reward faster.
5. If she stored things she found in the pool, she'd have a supply for when the 'retrieve' signal was given.

That's pretty advanced thought for an animal. Wait...people have already pointed out, we're all animals.
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apekshaposted 15 years ago
Human mind is worst in almost all cases and animals which are not wild are very innocent.
Today I lost one of my baby kitten so I can say the doctor was very worst..
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Ghost32posted 15 years ago
Apeksha, sorry about your kitten. Pam and I currently have 3 cats and a gecko.

I didn't have time to read ALL the replies (should have paid more attention in that Evelyn Wood Speed Reading course) but do have a couple of thoughts in my elite brain:

1. No difference in minds that we can see. Our pets AND wild animals from birds to desert grassland whiptail lizards communicate with us every day, making sure Pam knows she has their love and support when she is deepest in pain. They learn, have their own individual boundaries, express love and sometimes hate/jealousy/envy just like other people.

2. It's not really our minds that allow us to drive cars. It's our opposable thumbs. In addition to which, our cat Harvey (when he was alive) DID drive our U-Haul truck, even took it out of gear and stood with his front paws on the steering wheel as it began to roll down a slight grade in a truck stop parking lot.
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