How do you feel about debaters who cry foul and turn you in?

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sneakorocksolidposted 15 years ago
This has become a practice used by our leftest friends who want to silence any and all opposition. Whatdaya think?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There seems to be a group of hubbers in the forum who are out to make it their own. I think it's a load of crap and they need to try and toughen up alittle or be less deceptive about their actions.
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  dutchman1951posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  kind of childish I think
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you check the forum posters who are now most active in politics, you will notice, sneako, that they are all so-called conservatives now. (I call them 'so-called' because many of the more senior hubbers here would call them another thing.) The actual truth is that most of the 'left' leaning hubbers (often that is in the mind of these so-called conservatives, as we have all kinds of people here, often more moderate than anything else...I would also say the rational) have voluntarily elected to stop posting in the forums, because the words here that pass as debate (and resulting nastiness) are not worth their time or the intrusion of bad feeling in their lives. I am one these. I could name a dozen more.
  
  I think some here are simply interested in controversy and drama of a certain nature...who knows why. I certainly haven't seen any one of certain group banned in a long time. But then, I haven't paid that much attention. This post just struck me--it seems to want to invite the drama once again. I like debate, but cannot say I understand the rest of this stuff.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Lita I appreciate your observations and it can be bad. The two individuals I'm referring to are consistant liberal debaters and that was their position in these treads. I come to play, I could careless what anyone believes. I like honest discourse but this little tattle-tale crap is more offensive than anything that was said.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know that you are OK underneath everything, Sneako...I saw that. lol You remind me of our builder friend here, Tom. We had that conversation a while back, and I want you to know I respected what you said and did that one night.
  
  I think its important to remember that we are all real people here (well, at least some of us are)...and to realize that even though this is an internet forum and we're on keyboards, this is still like talking to someone. Some of the stuff that goes on here recently is beyond the pale...
  
  Anyway, I'm just responding to you, and now I'm off again. Good night.
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  wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you can't take the heat, as they say...
  
  There are points when a person has gone too far though. Personal harassment by contacting people off the forums, for instance.
  
  As far as silencing opposition though, who would we have left to fight with?
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  Randy Godwinposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How did you get this information?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Both comments were made to individuals in a left vs right debate. I'm not innocent but I'm not an ax murderer either:
  
  1. one hubber was attacking another hubber and he'd done it before and he'd done it to me. He likes to imply you are an idiot with a reading comprehension problem. I told him to back off and he was a pansy.(my offense)
  
  2. The debater stated he wouldn't take a bigoted position to another hubber. I said something to the affect a another piece wisdom from an enlightened progressive, ding. And I was warned again.
  
  I asked for clarification on this procedure and it's done in response to complaints. There may be other criteria but thats what was told to me.
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  VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think HP is a forum for discussing all matters. Some use all kinds of foul language, only for their satisfaction. But what is worrying, the HP allows all kinds of abuses by some hubbers and deny chance to reply to their abusive comments. HP may please list some abusive words and delete the comments, if and when they are used by hubbers. For me, HP is like reading a newspaper only.
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  Deborah-Lynnposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You could try to write a hub about it and see if the "tudes" diminish, this is a writers' environment and a large part is sharing your work with others....
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  GeneralHowitzerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I also experienced the #1 that too nyahahaha from a high profile hubber, hehehe...
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  LiamBeanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You are talking about me. See, if you read something and don't understand it either admit it or don't respond. It is appropriate for me to point out that you didn't get something or assigned a value to it that's not there.
  
  At one point I stated that I'd read an idiotic statement. I didn't call the person who made the statement an idiot.
  
  A fine point that seems to be lost to many here.
  
  As you should have been. You, A Texan, and ledefensetech invade a topic and shout down anyone you disagree with. It amounts to spamming. It certainly isn't a discussion; it is most certainly not a debate. Not with the three of you calling anyone and everyone you disagree with a) a commie, b) a socialist, or c) an Obama apologist.
  
  If you don't get it you don't get it. There's no magic here.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think it reflects a deep, deep insecurity.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Like always starting a new thread if you get snipped or banned or deleted? It's a forum, it's not important...
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Too true
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  relacheposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't engage in debates in the forums as most often they are just a mud-throwing contest between equally poorly-argued points. Besides flagging Hubs that genuinely run afoul of the Hub TOS keeps me busy enough.
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  Nelle Hoxieposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I try very hard to follow this strategy as well. But sometimes I get sucked in...
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Lori J Mitchellposted 15 years ago
I'm not quite sure what this particular post is about, but I had somebody flag some of my hubs which are totally not even political. I personally think they did it because I befriended an outspoken hubber. He had a dozen or so flagged the same day it was done to me, and the day after we posted comments on each other's hubs. So, I guess it's the same, it's reporting for immaturity instead of something valid.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's their way to silent the conservative side of the forums. If you say anything they can twist into some kind of personal attack then they report you and your banned for three days. It's a sick twisted little game but thats their whole game.
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  Lori J Mitchellposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'll don't have politics on my hubs. I just do Shakespeare, but I do post in some controversial forum threads. But I've never been known to back down from anybody and I don't have my hubs monetized so I couldn't care less about being suspended, I'm still going to say what I think and if it becomes a witch hunt then I will start posting about politics!
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Shakespeare? Oh hell! You're way to smart for the rest of us!
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  Lori J Mitchellposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL...one of my comments was about how I interpret Shakespeare in a "lowbrow" way, so perhaps not too smart afterall!
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're in!
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  LiamBeanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Silence the conservative side? How funny. I think it'd take a nuke to silence you guys. Hell if I were on the moon I'd still hear you.
  
  I think bans should be extended to thirty days.
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  Bibowenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You may be right, but this has not been my experience. My views are pretty conservative, but I have never been banned by HP even though I've expressed conservative (liberals would say "extreme") views about abortion, the death penalty, & the president's ineptness.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not innocent I did use the word 'pansy' and I did say 'enlightened progressive' but I thought we were all having a good banter.
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  LiamBeanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well I've been called worse so big deal. I'm not sure why "enlightened progressive" would be insulting.
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  rmcrayneposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What was the outcome? I hope Hub staff checked it out and unflagged them due to flags being unfounded.
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
Nah, I don't see any favoritism from the admins lately.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  They're responding to complaints, they're job, from our leftest friends. I got zapped for 'enlightened progressive.' You can't even have a laugh in the forums with these people around!
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  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You should clarify this with extreme lefts. I've only done it to 2 people (once after getting the banstick and once for a religious whacko who was way outta line).
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
LOL I pointed you to those enlightments, too. They were obvious.

Generally, it's better to have fun with buddies, then with adversaries, ya know
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  Dame Scribeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Misha, quit snoozin, you got hugs to pass around that are overdue hehehe
  
  I don't get involved either. I get busy with Hubs, life or help when or if asked n try to keep up with me fans. I find it better to keep at constructive activities rather than sidetracked. Jus my own thoughts.
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Army Infantry Momposted 15 years ago
Personally I think its riduculas people being banned for speakin what they think,..for those who can't take the heat,..perhaps they should stay out of the forums. I get beaten up from time to time in these forums,..but its all good,...forums are ment for people to speak on. But again thats my opinion,..and not ment to affend anyone,..
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm just playing around and I'm shocked at how the people in the forum behave. I wouldn't turn anybody in for anything thats how I work, I can take it.
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  Army Infantry Momposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm with ya on that,..I too got better things to do to than turn people in because they threw sticks and stones,..LOL. Perhaps when those people come into the forum to start drama, we all should leave as a group,...LOL. Just a thought. (Not to affend anyone though)
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tksenseiposted 15 years ago
Greatest hits:

"I intended for them to ban abusive trolls."

"I will never again post on the forums"
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Umm, I missed that. I thought she was finally banned forever.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No. I chose it, Misha. Partially so I am not followed by you.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently not.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Precisely.
  
  You should know. And btw, so do more people that I RESPECT than I can count...more than a dozen.
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh come on, you can count higher than 12 can't you?
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yoshi97posted 15 years ago
Haha! I'm naturally flame proof, so I don't let what anyone says bother me too much and if I find myself too close to a topic I bow out, relax, and try to come back with a fresh and open mind. After all ... debates and arguments are never the same thing. Debates stand to make a point, whereas arguments just tend to make someone mad.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hear!Hear!
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yoshi97posted 15 years ago
Wait! Lita!

Aw man ... missed my autograph chance again ...

I'll try to catch you on the forums when I cya here again. Take care Lita.
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Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years ago
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  Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This
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Ghost32posted 15 years ago
Haven't had the problem yet, but wanted to take the opportunity to thank you, Prometheus, for a post on another political thread. Was in a hurry last night (or maybe it was lazy, hard to tell sometimes) and neglected to jump right on it.

Anyway, you mentioned that your conservative grandfather had a saying:

"If you're young and you're not liberal, you have no heart; if you're old and you're not conservative, you have no brains."

I love that, understand it, and actually believe it says it all. Not until I read your post did I think back over my own voting record and realize (now that I'm "old") that (whew!) I do apparently have both brains and a heart.

Again, thanks for that post.
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  wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't mean to hijack -
  I read that too & laughed. I remember Dennis Miller saying that years ago.
  Does that make me old enough that I have to vote conservative now?
  Although I do find myself drifting right just a little bit...
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  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  tksenseiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  His grandfather was François Guizot?!
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Its been attributed to many people including me.
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  Pr0metheusposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I never said he came up with the quote, he just used to say it. Thanks for bein' that guy, you're good at it!
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awareposted 15 years ago
wield words wisely . and your ban proof. this is a forum not a debate . the civil exchanging of contrary ideas. a debate to me is a peeing contest between opposing self righteous party's . ultimately ending with both pro and con leaving with their shoes wet.... that my friends is poetry .
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Whose definition of civil is the point.
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awareposted 15 years ago
you know what civil means
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not another one.
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sneakorocksolidposted 15 years ago
Civil- it's whatever the person who's losing a debate say's it is.
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Maddie Ruudposted 15 years ago
Actually, both "liberals" and "conservatives" report personal attacks regularly. And both seem to think it's only the other that get banned.

Interesting, what moderating a website teaches you about human nature.
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  See! You're showing favoritsm! You never ban independents!!!
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Eye Roller!!
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AEvansposted 15 years ago
Somehow. Some way can't all of us find a way to get along? There was a time on HP when nobody at HP had to patrol the forums maybe if everyone took time to read the rules there would not be so much conflict.
If someone peeves me off I ignore them or come back in a positive way without harming another feelings or thoughts, I try to think before I speak but lately there has been a lot of testoserone in here. lolololo
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  Ron Montgomeryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sexist!
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  AEvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well it is true! You don't see us ladies going to battle like you warriors all of the time do you? Imagine life without testosterone in the forums, everything would be coming up roses. hehehehhehe
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  yoshi97posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Evidently you haven't been reaping souls in the religious forum as I have ... Trust me, the ladies are just as evil.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How about a little mud wrestling?
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  AEvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well that would be fun been there done that!
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Got any video
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  yoshi97posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A point well made Texan ... I like your attitude more so every day. By all means, women should never be allowed to fight without mud, pudding, or jello present.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Very good point Yoshi, totally agree
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  or booze, nothing better than watching two drunk chicks go at it, ahhhh, heaven!
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  yoshi97posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Don't look now fellas ... but our avatars just went up on a thousand dart boards. For our sake, I hope that voodoo stuff don't work ...
  
  Ouch! This is not good! Ouch! Ouch! Okay, I take it back! Ouch!
  Ladies aren't evil ... they are pure like Ivory Soap! Ouch! What was that one for?
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A Texanposted 15 years ago
"As you should have been. You, A Texan, and ledefensetech invade a topic and shout down anyone you disagree with. It amounts to spamming. It certainly isn't a discussion; it is most certainly not a debate. Not with the three of you calling anyone and everyone you disagree with a) a commie, b) a socialist, or c) an Obama apologist."

Just because your arguments don't hold water does not mean we are keeping you from spouting them. Are you afraid of the mean men behind the computer screen?
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  LiamBeanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This is called trolling. This will also get you a three day suspension.
  
  Let's review here. "spouting?", "don't hold water", "are you afraid of the mean men behind the computer screen?"
  
  Itching for a fight? Go join the WWE.
  
  You three have some real anger issues don't you? You should see someone about that.
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  A Texanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Responding to a post using my name is trolling? Do you have some verification of this? Maybe you should refrain from using my name on this site, you think?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  After your reading comprehesion crap, who turned you in?
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  LiamBeanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You think I turned you in? Prove it.
  
  I made that statement as a factual one. Not a personal attack. Sorry you don't see the difference, but it's not my problem.
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sneakorocksolidposted 15 years ago
Just say in plain english what we can expect from you. The truth about how you handle being called on your cute little comments. Just let everybody know before they make the mistake thinking you're a friend.
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  LiamBeanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I see. So if I disagree with you I'm not your friend. Wow, that's mighty mature of you.
  
  By the way, my "cute little comments" have not gotten me banned. Apparently, hubpages staff know the difference between a personal attack and a general observation with a touch of sarcasm.
  
  Here's an example. You called me a pansy. In fact you don't know that and later retracted the statement. Problem is once said it's out there; can't be taken back.
  
  That's not very friendly, but I did point out the difference between what I do and what you did. I certainly didn't "report you."
  
  I can take some ribbing. Why can't you?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Once you turn someone in you've decided who your friends are going to be.
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  LiamBeanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Whatever. No big surprise really. Just more jumping to conclusions and flying off the handle.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I never retracted any statement and I stand by my assessment. Well you did piss me off so I did a little checking, you can come clean fill in the blank or I'll post what I was told, I already know the answer.
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  LiamBeanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  How did I piss you off? I told you from the get-go I respected you and admired your intelligence. Then I stated why I diagreed with you. I was darned nice about it too.
  
  You seem to be very thin skinned.
  
  So how do I respond to this accusation. I don't. No point. Anything I say will be used against me...as usual.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My offense came after what you said to someone else. I don't like bullies(verbal or physical)and will stand up for anyone. My comment was in reguard to your comment to them. You've made the same comments to me but I didn't care until I was banned. That pissed me off! So I wrote some e-mails and found out how it all works.
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  LiamBeanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So how does it work? Surely they review the "offending" post before making a decision.
  
  As to bullying there's a lot of that from both sides. But again, if I say that there's a reading for comprehension problem I'm being quite serious. It's not an attempt at bullying, it is a clear and unambiguous observation on my part.
  
  Heck if I get banned I'll take it like a man and come back at the end of three days and apologize.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well they can't read every post, I'm sure thats because they have lives, when someone points out a potential violation then they get involved. They review the comment and handle it. So, two of you did exactly the same thing immediatly after a post and exactly the same thing happened and your partner has disapeared since. The funny thing is that I never said who the hubbers were but everyone knew their style so they figured it out immediatly. You constantly bring up the personal attack crap anyway! The majority agree don't debate with those who aren't your friends because this is what happens. I appologized to you once I won't again.
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  LiamBeanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What partner? I got tired of saying the same thing over and over again and left.
  
  I went back and deleted a bunch of pointless posts I made and left the one saying I was outta there. That was the last time I was on that thread.
  
  Nope! tksensi was constantly accusing me of it. Not the other way around.
  
  I didn't expect one to begin with and told you as much. As I remember I said "...you don't owe me an apology. You have a right to your opinion."
  
  Again my main beef with all of this is at some point it becomes a shouting match and all debate ends. I want to know why you feel the way you do, not be told I'm wrong because I don't.
  
  I also want the right to say why I disagree without being called a) a commie, b) a socialist, or c) a liberal. Now the last one is not all that insulting, but the first two are.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The first time I apologized was because you flipped out over my remark about you needing to throw your pot and your bong away.
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  LiamBeanposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't do pot.
  
  Dinner was great. Tortellini stuffed with pesto. Shredded Parmesan on top with a dab of butter on the pasta. Garlic bread too. Very good!
  
  Hope the rest of you had a good meal and some relaxing moments as well.
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  Star Witnessposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  They do 'review' for "what they think" is a personal attack (TOS), Liam Bean. Usually, this is for calling people a name--however, within this process on the part of hubpages are personal biases towards certain people (I might also say this site is located in SF...although the biases are not always political). Also, limitation as to vision of what connotes attacks (the disruption of forums with trolling does not seem to be an issue to them) is apparent.
  
  There was a time when the forum was more of a gentleman's game with banter, both 'sides' were more respectful and people had fun. This hasn't been the case in a while.
  
  In essence, fine points are misunderstood not only by certain members, but the moderators themselves. I understand what you are saying perfectly about calling an idea stupid as compared to calling a person stupid. You can count on few here, honestly, from my observations to do so.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Were this terrible sock smell is coming from? Is there a need to do a laundry?
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  Star Witnessposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sorry? Find someone receptive to call stupid or flirt and wink at.
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
And this is a topic for discussion?

How does this topic a matter of discussion.

I could see if the people who open a topic about something and then scream foul play when other people's arrogance gets the better of them and they wrongly or purposely "call out" someone.

Similiar to the incident the other night, when spiderpam accused cosette of being a liar.

A person cannot be a liar, until proven to be the case. If you have no proof, like real evidence to present, if not then it's hearsay at best.

But to open a topic about this particular incident(s), is ridiculous. Not to mention, it creates hard feeling between others and is completely disruptive to the entire process hubpages present to the public.

The simple fact that other people are now debating this issue, is again ridiculous.

People, seriously, is there something better to do with our time, instead of responding to "childish" immature, awww I hurt your feelings.

Get over yourselves and move on.

You can respond all you like, I'm not coming back to see what you said...because I don't believe this is worth discussing.

I only wanted to bring up the fact that it's "childish" and should already be done and over with.

Want to talk in another forum, I'll be glad to engage.
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yoshi97posted 15 years ago
Hmmm ... I need a moment to decide whether I should call out the SWAT team, the Peace Corps, or a marriage counselor.
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LiamBeanposted 15 years ago
By the way, I just caught the implication. I do not have any other hub accounts than this one. No sock puppets (I can't stand that), no alternate identities, no alter egos.

If I ever do open another account it will be because I've ditched this one. Though I can't imagine why I'd want to do that.

Off to dinner. Yum!
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yoshi97posted 15 years ago
To all parties involved:

Here's a totally stupid question from someone who isn't involved in politics ... I know, that make *me* stupid as well, but it is what is is ...

Knowing everyone views politics differently and no one ever wants to be wrong, do you guys ever expect to agree on anything? I mean ... politics is a very polarized debate arena, just like religion. Some are pro-abortion some are antiabortion, some are for more gun control and some are for less, some are all for big businesses and some are for small.

Day in and day out you guys fight a losing battle trying to beat your opinion into an equally matched foe who believes differently. So, when all else fails, you launch scud missiles at each other. Is there a winner when it's all over? Nope. All parties still believe the same the next day. I've been a victim of this logic bomb myself, believing it is possible to win over someone with the right argument ... but there is no right argument. You disagree because you see the issues differently and each is totally 100% right about their views when taken from the perspective of their own belief. What makes them wrong is the fact that their perspective isn't the same as yours.

Express your views ... concede that others will disagree ... it's not about being silenced or silencing others ... it's about letting other people know your stance.

Do people debate over the best vacation spot? Maybe some, but very little. Why? Because vacationing isn't a polarized argument. It's not ... sunny paradise or winter wonderland.

So, of course things will get heated and people will attack one another, sensing the futility of not getting their voice out over all others. But at the end of the day, the one who shouts the loudest isn't the victim - they're the town crier, and we know this job often went in medieval days to the lesser educated who could not seek employment elsewise. As such, fighting to win makes you lose ... so it is better to share your viewpoint than to try to bat it into your foe with a titanium rod.

Trust me ... I've been through this in the religious forums and that's as polarized as it gets. You're debating with (whether you care to believe it or not) intelligent people, and intelligent people will typically fight back when clubbed.

Want to silence the opposition? Lower your own volume and they will lower theirs to hear what you are saying.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You always make perfect sense to me
  reply report
2. 0
  Star Witnessposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Of course. And I recently had a debate on here with a very good debater, with who I agreed on much...some 'sock' account called 'thetfin'...even though we came at things from a totally different perspective.
  
  It is possible that debate be an exchange of ideas--very possible and very interesting.
  
  Some here are only around for their own entertainment, however. When these two types of debaters cross--therein lies the problem.
  reply report
3. 68
  wyanjenposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But Yoshi, I have an opinion.
  I want to yell it. Makes me feel smarter!
  
  (ahem. just kidding, no offense intended, that was a bi-partisan, non-denominational smart ass comment.)
  reply report
4. 0
  sneakorocksolidposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You're point is well taken but I don't care about what I'm called, I do care about being turned in for something I've said when it's an even give and take.
  reply report
5. 81
  shibashakeposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Winter wonderland is the clear winner. Anyone who hates wonderlands are clearly unpatriotic and hates children. A sunny paradise is for pansies who are not man enough to take cold weather.
  
  reply report

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