New people are always welcome on this site, but they need to understand that this is not a site like Facebook. HP is a community of writers who have come here to hone their skills and perhaps earn a few dollars.
If your only goal is to show up out of the blue, produce nothing, but spend your time making negative comments about issues you know little or nothing about, you would do better to find another place for spewing your venom.
There is no place here for people who do these sorts of things.
LOL or open an account and post a bunch of spam on the forums. Won't get you anywhere but kicked off Hubpages!
I have been noticing the spam myself. I have also seen some "Hubs" get written with a bunch of weak content shoved inside one text module. I wonder why people think this is a good way to promote their business. Quickly write out a poorly written article and go post it somewhere.
Yea verily TT2. Also, this forum has now been hijacked by "Freeform Discussion" about banal topics.
First it was games...then it was qoutes....now it is banal topics.
Welcome to the new and improved HP writers forum.
One thing I have found in any online community or social media website is that what you get from it depends on how you choose to interact with it. That is to say, if you want useful advice then search for that, and ignore everything that is not related to your goal.
I used to stress over communities I liked when people were being off-topic or not being serious, but I learned to just let it pass. On Reddit, I only follow subreddits related to things I write about and need help with. Doing this eliminates almost everything unrelated to what I am interested in reading about. I use HubPages forums to respond to posts to congratulate people on their success and to give advice when I can. I also only follow the most useful and helpful topics.
I am also starting to use HubPages forums more to ask for help myself, as this is something I am trying to stop being shy about doing. I suppose in a way I am somewhat afraid of constructive criticism as I know it will expose some flaws in my writing, but to be a better writer I need this feedback.
Like TIMETRAVELER2 said, "HP is a community of writers who have come here to hone their skills and perhaps earn a few dollars."
I want to earn more than a few dollars myself, so I use HubPages as seriously as I reasonably can with my given writing skills and SEO understanding. I am not an expert on either subject, but I try my best.
My advice is to follow positive posts and contribute to those that help you write better. If you focus on the bad, you will get worse. You get what you put your attention on. Help is very important and that is what I strived to do for my fellow HP writers.
What a great attitude: do not spend your time helping those who know less than you since their ignorance might rub off.
You misunderstand. This is not about not helping people who know less than you do, this is about people being unbelievably rude and making unacceptable comments. I am always willing to help people who are trying to do better and do so with a respectful attitude, but never will I assist anybody who does absolutely nothing yet wants to tear me or my work apart. Big difference.
You do realize that the message was not intended for you? Many, many times I have seen you take the time to help Hubbers who ask for help in the forums.
That message was for the person that told us that if we focus on the bad writers, we will get worse. Fortunately many other people disagree and help those who need it.
Are you using a chronological or threaded view for this discussion? It makes a difference.
TIMETRAVELER2, If I'm not mistaken, you've been incensed on a few threads that I've seen. One person's frustration is another's harsh interpretation. I think I speak for every online forum when I say that people are much more sensitive on average. And it doesn't matter what the topic is. One slight misinterpretation of a comment and it becomes a grease fire.
There are inherent limitations to online communication: lack of inflection, nuances and body language. Just the other day, someone wrote out what I believed to be a complete mockery of something I had said prior. Turns out it was a well intetioned joke. It wasn't until after I had read it a second time that I realized it couldn't have been anything BUT a joke. It's really easy to see things that aren't there at first glance.
You are correct..;and actually, you are one of the people who caused me to react that way! This is because you came across as arrogant and self serving, but probably were unaware that you did this. So you see, we all have our moments. However, what I was referring to here was not how someone responded to me on the forums but how they commented on one of my most popular and well liked articles. I had good reason to be upset. I simply deleted them and did not respond but wanted to share my feelings here so other newbies would get the message.
I find it interesting that some here who are highly educated or consider themselves experts assume that others are not. Assumptions are never a good thing and usually are incorrect. However, when someone blatantly attacks...that's another story...this was the situation I referred to.
Somewhere along this thread, someone linked to another discussion about the same thing. Everyone's pissed about what they're seeing on the forums. I just don't know what to say to that. I feel like forums are just a small part of HP as a whole. I usually have bigger fish to fry in my life. I'm also new here yet I can find what I need to find if I need to find it. The only people that seem to have a problem with it are the HP alumni.
That's because those of us who have been here a while can remember a time when there was a lot more shop talk in these forums. Without those discussions I doubt I could have ever done well here. I didn't even participate in the forums during my first few years here but I read them every day.
Remember that for everyone who participates here there are dozens of new writers who are just reading. How many potentially successful writers have turned away because they haven't regarded hp as a valuable place to write based on what they've seen in these forums?
That's a loss to the community and a loss to the site as a whole.
We can also remember a time when non-hp discussions dominated the entire forum. People had the same complaints back then and hubpages responded by separating the forums so those who want to talk about the writing side have their space and those who want to talk about other things have their space. Now it seems like we're right back where we started and that is incredibly frustrating.
It''s fine if people don't care about this forum as a learning tool or if they don't care about the writing side of hubpages. All many of us are saying is it would be great if they would not care about those things over in the topical forum so writers can have their space too.
I understand and I'll do my best to not contribute to these problems myself. I don't want to disregard the welfare of people getting the help they need. I've started up a new forum to brainstorm ways to correct it.
Yes, this is exactly how it is. The ONLY reason I want to help other hubbers here is that I know that this is where I learned my stuff and I'm sure there are other newbies who read the forums. Most of the stuff I know I haven't learned here, but the initial ABC's were important.
The forums are definitely a better resource than the learning center imo.
You do seem like a nice and friendly person I sure people appreciate the help. Mr. tomato article man LOL.
I just remembered a post you made about how one of your tomato Hubs was doing very well during certain periods.
I think people playing around on the forums is a minor annoyance at worst. Not really something I stay up at night over either and I generally think it's being blown out of proportion. I too can find what I need when I need it and I think there is value in people kind of doing what they want, entertaining themselves and others with forum threads that are obviously not for "technical help". The serendipitous thread is a good example, as you pointed out. People vent there, bring good news, etc.
I agree the forums are a great resource,though, as others have said. I actually just picked up some SEO knowledge I didn't have before on a thread earlier; wasn't even really the subject of the thread, strangely enough.
I agree 110% with Rupert Taylor and Kenna. Because of the negatively on this forum recently, I have stayed away. I don’t know what anyone else’s “feed” looks like, but I have noticed a lot of “banal” discussion topics being initiated recently by the same two people.
I was mean on a forum theread today, it's unlike me. But a particular hubber has over the past days hijacked the forums with stuff that ruined the QnA section. It really makes me feel bad that I kind of was mean to a person, just going to ignore the cr*p from now on: https://hubpages.com/community/forum/33 … ost3989289
Doesn't seem to me that you were being mean. There are people who post who seem to set themselves up for this type of comment by posting things that irritate or frustrate.
Every time I write something, I get a little bit better at writing. And what seems banal to you might be something that someone is legitimately trying to understand or articulate for themselves. Part of what makes a good writer is a writer's inclination to try and understand the world around them.
I realize that there's junk floating around but I also see a lot of excellent contributions both on hubs and in the forums. The medium is the message. I'm grateful for it.
I've also seen the freeform discussion forum used for other odd things. You're probably all familiar with the ever-present "Serendipitous Thread". This is a useful phenomenon that's carried on for quite some time and is still going according to my records.
But no one planned that. It was something that a great majority of users unspokenly agreed to maintain. This is a creative domain and should be regarded as such. It's unfortunate to find drama and conflict but no platform is free from that.
Whatever Hubpages looks like a year or 5 years from now is going to resemble what the collective decides to use it for. Perhaps for the better, perhaps not.
I guess my question is: Is the riff-raff truly hindering other people from getting the help they need? Or is this just a matter of trying to micro-manage content?
The point is, the serendipidous thread could have a home over in the topics section, along with quotes and games and other nonsense. Nobody is saying those discussions shouldn't exist. Just that they should exist over there.
The forums are divided in half. Half for topical discussion and half for HP discussion. Right now the topical discussions are dominating both sides. Shouldn't people who are only interested in the writing part have their space as well, without having to wade through the other stuff?
HP will decide the future of this forum, not us. They could let it be a place to learn, or they could let it be a place to goof off. Up to them, but the latter means a lost opportunity to help writers improve.
I could care less if you have your daily rant, the Aussie asks her strange questions, or the others post their games and qoutes. I ignore them, but I do think they should be on a separate forum and not on the same page as the one used by writers to seek help and learn. It is hindering others. Every time there are other posts put up there the older posts that might help newbies are pushed off the page.
But do I think that is your fault, or the others that make up these posts? No. This forum belongs to HP, and if they want those types of pages on there that is their business. What HP could do is move all of those posts over to the topical forum and leave this forum open only to writers looking for answers.
Haha. I love those strange questions by the Aussie. It's great philosophical fun. Idk. You all make some rock solid points. I guess I am just content with what I come here for. I have also noticed that when people do ask for help, they certainly get it. I think the last newcomer post I saw days ago is still active.
Please read my post on theraggededge's thread "Why is this forum full of cr*p?"
How to Simplify the Forum Topics Structure
as it is closely related to this thread and offers a solution to the problem.
TimeTraveller2, DrMark, and Lobobrandon, I've been working on the suggestions you all gave and I'm seeing a slight increase and my hub scores are going up up up. Thanks again.
I'm just going to jump right in here and say my little bit. I think Hub Pages forums and feeds and search are set up adequately to find whatever I need with only a click. It's one of the best lay-outs I've found anywhere. For people to be complaining about this just boggles my mind. The learning center is available for new writers too. It is so easy to navigate on this site. I can't understand why anyone would complain about having to 'see' unrelated topics listed on the same page. It takes seconds to scroll through, and any topic that is 'hot' is visible. If the OPs want to give a thread more visibility all they have to do is bump it back up to the top of the page. And anyone looking for advice can do the same. The insults and name calling that is going on around this is really sad. It started off that way by calling the topical forums the 'dark side' and then demanding anything not related to helping newbies i.e. 'crap' be moved 'over there'. The situation may not be ideal for everyone's needs, but the insults have made this discussion into a debacle. There are some pretty long winded 'experts' who seem to be taking up a disproportionate amount of air-time, and have no qualms about doing that. A writer will be 'successful' here by creating noteworthy articles on subjects that people out in the real world are searching for. That we know. But who is to say what changes may occur in the real world. Creativity comes in all shapes and colors. A light-hearted banter on a 'crap' thread could lead to an inspiration or a new idea. It's not about the marketplace 24/7 surely? There now, I guess I've taken up my allotted 'crap' time.
It seems that several people still don't understand the issue. Even the staff don't get it. It's nothing to do with navigation. Navigation on the site is fine if you know what you are looking for.
It's not about finding what you want. Or the time it takes to scroll through. It's about sharing ideas, asking for assistance, learning and understanding how HP works. This forum:
https://hubpages.com/forum/hubpages and it's second page: https://hubpages.com/forum/hubpages?page=2 is the only place where people are likely to happen across information they didn't even know they needed.
On this forum there are two pages of links to threads. Right now, they total 47 threads. If most of those 47 slots are being used up by topics unrelated to writing, and writing at HP in particular, then many people will miss out on useful information because it 'falls off' the end of the threads. 47 threads isn't very many, especially if you are a new hubber with no idea where you are or what you are doing. And when those 47 threads are devoted to games, quotes and off-topic stuff, it means there is less actual HP knowledge available.
If someone only visits this page once every couple of days, they are going miss an awful lot. And you can't bump something up if you can't see it in the first place. And neither is it just about helping newbies, it's about everyone who writes at HubPages who has something to share, whether it's a resource, an idea, a suggestion or a tip about writing here. Because, above all, HP is a writer's site, not a social media platform. And this is the only part of the HP site where those things can be shared.
To be honest, I and several others, are fed up of being labelled 'forum Nazis' and similar when all we are trying to do is raise a valid issue. Yes, several of us have called the off-topic material all kinds of names, however, I don't see anyone berating or name-calling apart from the few who seem unable to grasp the point.
And, yet again, I will reiterate: no-one says the off-topic threads shouldn't exist, despite Jessie's insistence that that's what was meant. It never was about that. It was simply the fact that we ALREADY HAVE a dedicated forum for all those kinds of things. Right here: https://hubpages.com/forum/topical
Go look. See all those topics? Everything anyone could possibly want in the way of entertainment and discussion. So why not post there and allow the writing topics some space?
The other forum was called the 'dark side' because of the threads in the political categories that always degenerate into a chaotic discussion... a bit like the ones here at the moment.
If anyone has read through https://hubpages.com/community/forum/33 … um-dispute and actually reads my posts, they will clearly see that at no time was I rude, insulting or critical of him. Yet Jessie thinks it's acceptable to make accusations and offer unwarranted observations of my character that he has somehow perceived despite not knowing me at all. Perhaps he takes an opposing viewpoint as a personal criticism?
The end result of all this, is that people who have been here a long time, the ones that pop in to see if there is any HP news, or anything interesting about Maven, or writing in general, and, of course, to answer any queries we can, are being pushed out, insulted, told to be quiet, and being told we are vitriolic. It seems that some people are allowed to express their annoyance, but others are not. And to be told I have an attitude problem by a relative newbie, who clearly has one of his own is amusing, to say the least.
Well put, like Rupert said in the other thread. I'm out of this discussion. I will reply like now to say if someone makes good points, but not going to bother clarifying what we are saying. It's been clarified enough. If people were truly interested they could read the threads. Don't let anyone get under your skin. Ignore them.
And regarding my other thread where I decided to write a hub, that's not going to happen anymore. I will still publish something, but on a new blogger blog. And I will privately share the link with people who responded there. I wouldn't want people like snakeslane reading it after saying some people perceive themselves as experts.
Lobobrandon: Don't let one person's views stop you from doing something that could help so many people. There's no question that you are very good with SEO, building websites, etc...which surely qualifies you as an expert. We need people like you to help us, and anybody who is too blind to see that ....well , that's on them.
You just keep doing what you're doing.
Of course it is up to you, but I hope you will reconsider posting that article to HubPages. You make valuable contributions to this forum and an article like that would really help a lot of writers. Personally, I was really looking forward to it. It's the first time I've been excited about something in these forums for a long time. Except when Paul said we might be able to make $10,000 in a month, which surprisingly few people seemed to care about.
You should perceive yourself as an expert because you are an expert. People who are knowledgeable and successful shouldn't have to make excuses or diminish themselves to placate those who like to take swings at the tall poppies.
I know right, that 10k post was quite an eye-opener
It sure was to me. I thought getting over $1000 a month would only be a dream. I know some people here can do it though. I wish I could see the Hubs they wrote.
Easy now. I didn't name you personally in my comment in this thread lobobrandon. And I did not say that expertise is not valuable. I've always enjoyed, and learned from your advice (and those of others here.). I read these forums faithfully to glean what I can to understand the changes, and how online writing works. I read any query that is relevant to my own understanding, and I appreciate the help and feedback you and others give. My comment was in no way directed at that, or you.
Ok good to know. Because I was one of the few people who posted something in that direction recently, I wasn't sure. Sorry for assuming.
I'm glad you wrote this because I feel pretty much the same as you do, especially the part about people who think that an opposing opinion gives them the right to criticize or undermine the views of another individual.
You have proven to be one of the most helpful people on this site, and I hope you'll continue with that endeavor.
Online communities are tricky. We try and keep them clean. We’re committed to moderating. I’ll ask the mods about moving threads. Also, flagging threads with a comment is helpful to the team.
We are doing some work that will hopefully improve the feed. My recommendation is to follow the topics you really care about.
Two related items. Remember when we started editing. It was highly debated. Now, we are getting results we dreamed about. We are going to increase the investment in editing for the community significantly. We haven’t found a better way to invest in the sustainability of our community sites and authors.
Also, related to earnings. I was a little surprised folks didn’t comment about the substantial increases in traffic. I always say don’t get too happy when things go up nor to sad if they drop. It’s a long game where we all try and get a little better everyday until we have such an advantage that this combination of authors with niche expertise is unbeatable:)
I suspect some people didn't comment because they were afraid they'd jinx themselves!
Paul, you guys have really come a long way and continue to outstanding work that is helping all of us. I cannot thank you enough. Coming here has been better than getting a university degree for online writing due to all of the things you do to help us write better articles.
Better than University, any day Learning on the job is always better. And when you are working with an outstanding business that kind of holds your hand, you can't ask for anything better.
Interesting observation, TT2. I thought no one was commenting because they were independetally wealthy and scoffed at the chance of making an extra $10,000 a month.
My Google traffic is up 78% compared to last year (over the last 30 days). I have not written any new hubs, I think. Other than massive edits to 2 hubs no real change. In general rankings across the niche sites, I am on have increased substantially.
That's good news, Paul. Thanks.
I am always wary of announcing traffic increases in case I jinx them However all is progressing nicely and we appreciate the efforts you are making.
Edit: TT2 I didn't see you'd written virtually the same thing before I posted
Happy to see the increase in traffic, but as you say it goes up and down so I don't get too excited until I see sustained traffic.
My 2 cents on this forum mess: I recall a time when HubPages was very committed to writer education. I remember the Apprentice Program, and all the articles created for it. They were super helpful to me as a new writer, and they provided a springboard for me to go out and learn more.
It seems like once the editors came around HP shifted from writer education to fixing writer's shortcomings. In other words, the writers provide the raw material and the editors form it into what HP wants it to be.
Not that that's a terrible idea. I agree the editors are important and have impacted the site in positive ways. But it would be great if there was more of a balance.
That's why I hate to see these forums fall apart.
Paul, I really learn a lot when you or Robin or any staff member pop into the forum and give us some "behind the scenes" insight into what is working well on the niche sites and what techniques or strategies we might want to try. That used to happen a lot more, but now it seems like this info is editor's eyes only.
It would be really great if HP would commit to making this forum about writer education and improvement. It would be even better if HP were to draft a sticky post once a week with the intent of helping writers learn a little more about online writing.
When writers are better, editors have less work to do. We'll produce better content to begin with, and I think education is the key to that.
Yes, those posts were very helpful. Would be nice to see more of those.
I haven't notice the editors changing my style, idea, or message. The only thing they have done for my hubs is correct grammatical errors and occasionally scramble my title around to make it sound better, in which case I might have looked over my hub again and found that neither my original or the one they gave me really worked well so I thought more intensely and found the perfect one. In a way that was a lesson they taught me but I had to see the opportunity and run with it. Anyhow, they've made minor corrections for me but they make a big difference.
I have seen an increase in traffic...I wouldn't say substantial but definitely a nice start. Looking forward to seeing more. I know it's coming. What you's have done for the entire Hubpage community of writers is outstanding! Keep up the great work! Thank you.
I noticed the increase in traffic. I thought maybe it was just a great weekend.
Traffic is definitely up and I'm noticing that some of the niche sites where I usually see little to no traffic are getting daily traffic. It's awesome!
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