This morning I've reported two "articles" on Discover that are blatant spam. How do these get past the filters?
In one a doctor is promoting his skill in orthopedic surgery and he can't even spell the name of his own country correctly in the title.
Another is a bog standard "best in Mumbai/Bangalore/Pune" piece that we see every day.
But these two are on Discover. When Google finds these spammy pieces on a revenue earning page it's likely to downgrade the platform and we'll all suffer.
This is very concerning. They tell us that for an article to move to discover it depends largely on the amount of traffic it it getting early on. How such articles get passed the filters is baffling.
IMHO. I don't think traffic has anything to do with it. I have seen articles like Bill's Mailbag go to Discover within a few hours of posting on the feed. I think it is governed more on if it passes the QAP more than anything else. I have a gut feeling that has become more algorithm governed. I even question if they use the crowd source article review process through the Amazon Mechanical Turk service anymore where actual people read them using a scoring system for them. Why? Because that was how they determined a score. And, I have a poem I published on the 26th of Jan and there is no score for it as yet. Huh? But, it is Featured and on Discover.
If I recall correctly, when the Discover site was implemented, we were told all new articles would automatically go to Discover if they weren't chosen for a specific niche site.
This was my understanding as well. It was only if an article did not pass QAP that it would not be on Discover. However, I noticed a couple months back that articles were moving to Discover before even passing the QAP, which didn't make sense to me.
I no longer write here currently, update occasionally, but mostly just browse the forums and keep up to date on my article stats so I can't speak from personal experience, but I've noticed that most people are having different experiences these days in regards to how long it takes to get articles moved to Discover or one of the niche sites. I'm honestly wondering if anyone knows the exact algorithms that go into the process, because that is the most frustrating part for me. I'm not going to write when I have no idea how or when my articles are going to get moved.
I'm about in the same boat. I have no desire to write for HP of late, but I do try to keep up with the forums. I will say, though, that I stay away from the forums that have become a vehicle for commenting on articles because I feel that will deter the HP gods from reinstating comments in the easy-to-use format that we once enjoyed. The forums don't rank with Google. That said, comments do - or at least they used to. When I Googled myself in the past, quite often comments I'd left showed up in the SERPs.
Once I retire, I'll go back to freelancing for real money and real clients. There's a huge market right now for digital copywriters.
I don't write new articles either. That way, I concentrate on what I have, updating and such.
Regarding poorly written spam articles, the staff need to address this issue. Otherwise, it's a SNFU.
Where do we find this huge market for copy writers?
I have a resource.
You can check out AWAI, WritersWeekly.com just to name two. The pandemic has created a need for digital copywriters. You work for real clients, not a gathering house such as this. However, the projects aren't just handed to you. You have to have a presence, a portfolio, write convincing copy that makes people want to buy a product or service, and more.
Indeed has postings as well. There is Blogger Jobs, similarly.
Just noted the above. Its up to each writer to decide.
I didn't know about Indeed, Kenna. Good tip!
I think each niche website has different editors. As I have different experiences depending where I submit to.
Most of my content goes to LevelSkip and I do well there. I start to have issues if I try to write for other topics.
Thank goodness. I write. I also review and edit my featured articles and those on network sites. How long an editor looks into my stuff is not my intention. Let them take their time. Occasionally, I'll hear from an editor or two about the status of my write sent to a niche site to make some changes.
The email they sent would like that they sent you on hubpages or discovery. Its like an AI format. You'll be told there's spam, mis-spellings, link issues, and many much. I went through the specific article again with common sense, under grammarly soft ware, and then through they 18 steps to submit again. That done I thank my lucky stars.
Yes. So it goes up out there with ash holes! You know what.
None of the articles you flagged in that time frame were published on Discover. They were on HubPages at the time and none of them were featured. Please email firstname.lastname@example.org if you have any questions.
All new articles are first published on HubPages. If they meet the minimum traffic threshold they are moved to Discover. If the articles are exceptional they are moved to Network Sites.
Sorry Matt, but on my computer the two articles I referenced were quite definitely on Discover when I saw them. I'm not making this up.
Readers can only flag articles on HubPages. Discover and the Network Sites currently don't have that feature. Did you mean you sent an email report? If so, please forward that email to email@example.com and we will review the articles.
That needs to be addressed. They say before it moves to discover, they should check it first or is it the moment the article gets traffic it would be redirected to discover? Anyhow they should check if its spam and plagiarised otherwise authors like us would suffer who strive and thrive to make a name here at this platform. Trying to create and write original hubs as much as we can possible. Some would even include references to their hubs to support it and add disclaimer if its necessary to support claims and facts. I guess they should strengthen their security or once moved to discover and a niche site, the articles should no longer be copied. There are some sites that won't allow their texts copied as its already published to avoid plagiarising the articles. I hope for the best.
Not sure if my thoughts are making any sense.
God bless to both of you John and Rupert.
That may be what the pooh-bahs said Shauna, I don't recall, but it isn't what happens. Every article I write goes first to HubPages; after a day or so they are moved to Discover where they sit side-by-side with some dreadful offerings that are written in a previously unknown version of English and/or peddle a suspicious product or service.
This is concerning. From my experience, Hubpages move articles to discover if they're gaining 'impressive' traffic. I have an article that I have edited countless times but it hasn't been moved to discover. The reason? It's not gaining even one view.
I don't think they're concerned with the quality of articles on discover as much as it is with vertical sites
Some authors, particularly the newcomers, edit their articles after they pass the. When published they add something, which HP is unaware of it. I think HP should also snip discover articles.
You mean after an article is publish author took a review or an edit of the stuff, hubpages will not take a look at it again?
I don't believe that the crap articles in Discover "downgrade the platform", they only reduce the reputation of Discover.
The other niches are separate entities, as far as Google is concerned.
So, it really doesn't really matter all that much.
But it matter to some. I think people see things in a different perspective. That's common.
I know I saw you mention Discover rankings on another post recently, but I think Discover ranks okay considering it's HP's new slush pile. I have two articles that show up on the first page. One is pretty obscure so I could write it anywhere and it would probably eventually make it to the first page, but the other one is a very heavily covered topic, mostly by education or government sites and I still rank at the bottom of the first page.
There is another article that ranks a spot or two below mine on the first page. Almost identical title, but different concept so I'm not sure it will get moved to Owlcation given the titles are basically the same, but it's an overly saturated topic and it still mangaged to make the first page in a much shorter time than it took me to get to the number one spot.
I think if most of this crap content would get weeded out right away, Discover could be something despite being a content farm for the "less than".
My belief/understanding is that there will be a reorganization related to the Arena change at some point in the not too distant future. That's another reason why I think it's not really worth worrying about Discover.
From a practical perspective, my own view has always been that if an article is doing moderately well in Discover, it's worth trying extra hard to get it moved to a niche where it will almost certainly do much better.
Do you know how the change would affect HP? From the email I saw they said it would not affect HP's niche sites. Most of them fall under the lifestyle arena anyway. What that means exactly I don't know, because it sounded like things were not changing on our end. I thought the rebrand was more for the other big name sites they own and trying to pull in more high name sports/finance pages, and to get higher subscriptions/advertising for them.
HP is still a mess in some ways, but I think the idea is that Discover is the new face of the HP brand. With that in mind, I would think they would want to showcase quality content and what they expect from their writers verses simply showing whatever content has been recently published. Whether the pages rank well or not, does not matter in my opinion.
When the face of your site has low and spammy content, who wants to read what else they have to offer? I'm sure most people do not browse the sites like they did in years past, but if the pages were designed in a way that made them more user friendly and were not littered with so many slow loading ads and poor quality content, we might actually see readers come back or stay and browse similar or recommended content. The way the sites currently look (all niches, not just Discover), it really is not hard to see why readers do not stay long or browse like they use to.
Most of my traffic is from search, and I know that is what we are suppose to strive for, but I think we are ignoring a chance to have a larger readership by continuing to showcase poor quality content on already low reader-friendly pages.
Discover is easy to get articles into precisely because it isn't the face of anything. It's a purgatory. That's how I see it, anyway.
It has crap in it because it's designed that way. All the other niches are curated. Discover isn't and that's deliberate because it serves a different purpose.
I lack the expertise and experience to say much on the site/page design and advertising strategy, so I can't really comment on that. All I know from what little knowledge that I do possess is that it's certainly not a straightforward area. I try to be wary of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
In terms of HP sites sure. In regards to how we are seen on The Arena page though, we are Discover. That is were all the HP links go unless they specifically identify a niche site (Which they only recognize and link to three from what I could tell). I would think they would want to be more than slush when that is the face of HP where it matters.
I obviously do not know how many people or advertisers would ever find the main page, but when HP is linked to Discover for any reason it should reflect the quality we strive for. Discover is still a channel of the Arena group, whether it's HP's rejects or not. All of the sites interlink back and forth I would think the quality of the site matters considering we were not allowed to link back to the original HP page due to the large number of poorly written articles. We will find ourselves in the same place within a matter of another few years, if they don't change the QAP/acceptance algorithm.
The spam should never get accepted, and the spun garbage should be failing the QAP. You can have good quality content not get accepted for a niche site (fairly common from what I've seen of the new process), or old stuff moved back for whatever arbitrary reason. I've had this happen twice and I'm not about to guess and try to rewrite an article a bunch of times for nothing, although I do assume one was for lack of traffic which doesn't make sense, because it had more traffic than some others still sitting on niche sites. Those articles shouldn't have to share a place with garbage because content was passed that never should have in the first place.
"The spam should never get accepted, and the spun garbage should be failing the QAP"
So what would you like to see:
1. a new army or editors employed?
2. technical innovations introduced that don't currently exist?
Neither solution seems realistic to me. For sure, it's desirable, but I don't believe it's at all practical.
You don't seem to offer any constructive solutions?
Do you know if the articles still go through Amazon MTurk to be read and rated? I'm wondering if they still do?
I don't know. I suspect it's all done with software nowadays, but I could be wrong.
The bottom line is that tech companies tend to be poor at policing information. Their business models rely on things like software and algorithms and it's not feasible to pay for large numbers of editors, etc.
If there's a technical solution, I suspect it will come from a big company like Facebook or Google, not HP.
I agree with last statement. I do remember when HP emphasized articles went through MTurk, thus every article was read by a live person and scored. Maybe they eliminated it. Oddly, I submitted an article on 01/26 and still have not received a score on it, though is featured and on Discover. It is a poem, but I don't see how that would make a difference.
'I do remember when HP emphasized articles went through MTurk, thus every article was read by a live person...' Perhaps, that's before 2012? I came here around mid-June. Articles went through the Boot Camp, which seems the same as passing the QAP. Are the stories read and access by AI robots?
Spams on the Discover site are becoming so common. It got an impetus when that man from you tube tell people there's money on hubpages, if they can write any piece of read.
So, they start to write junk or nonsenses. Hubpages did'nt gave a damn, as its apparent that the staff are not used to querying such spammy stuffs, unless we report such.
Two days ago, I began to report any spam on my time line. I hope other writers will join in the reporting processes.
Does HP even use MTurk anymore? I haven't looked in a very long time.
I like the idea of technical innovations to weed out the spammy stuff. I am sure it exists.
Paul, you'd think that HP/Maven/Arena would be more diligent about ensuring articles meet their brand qualifications and benefit all parties concerned. The more crap I see coming out of HP, the more I think Arena will eventually weed us out because of the rankings. That might be their underlying intent.
Neither do you. Your solution is to ignore the problem like the spam does not affect the site and drag it down. There is earning potential there whether you want to see/believe it or not.
I don't know what you mean by the technologies don't exist. There are other entities like HP that do not have this kind of content floating around their sites.
Maybe it's time HP invests time into other areas of the site instead of focusing on updating articles unnecessarily for the zillionth time.
An English language quiz or other form of verification upon sign up for example. If better QAP processes are not possible as you say, then maybe it's time to change the sign in. If they can't sign up, their content can't get published.
If hp can't hire more employees to account for the number of writers, maybe it's time to be more selective in who they accept.
If they cannot upgrade technology that leaves what? People like Rupert emailing staff multiple times a day? That's not a good solution either and further taxes what few employees HP actually has.
There have been ideas pitched to staff throughout the years. They don't even acknowledge that they see them half the time. I'm not about to spend what little spare time I have researching topics I know nothing about simply to try and find ways to make the site better. That is something hp should hire someone knowledgeable in tech to do.
Well said, Cholee! Most of my traffic is from organic searches as well. HP created Discover because anything left on HP will no longer earn. That said, those that are on Discover see very little traffic. Would traffic increase if the spammy, poorly written articles on Discover went away? Probably. But, as you say, all the niche sites are very annoying and non-user friendly due to the ads, videos, and everything else that gets in the way of readers staying on the page. My GA report shows users and sessions have increased, but so has bounce rate. That's not a good thing. It also shows session duration has decreased. I'm not surprised. When I land on sites that have as many interruptions as the HP/Maven/Arena sites do, I click out.
This is a sorry sight indeed. The site Discover was create to appease those writers who lost out when the niche sites were created. Why HubPages should allow low quality content there baffled most experienced authors.
I think with time, they'll be some changes as Hubpages is always looking into the forums for any hit that will help it showcase a better webpage.
I agree. I hope the content does get weeded out. It wouldn't hurt and can help in the long run.
Well it matters to anyone writing towards Discover or whose hubs might get ported there.
And honestly, I don't think the Google gremlins are so basic that they treat different URLs as completely unaffiliated when it is publically known they are the some company.
I have good quality articles on Discover, having been told because they are part of a series they were not suitable for a niche site. They still receive as much traffic as any I have on niche sites. I agree the spun garbage should be weeded and go no further than HubPages.
You can report inappropriate submissions to Discover by copying the URL and going to the poster's profile and then pasting the URL in your report. It's important for us to help clean out the crud - the HP editors can't do it all.
I just reported two similar situations. The one blatantly advertisers themselves as an industrial communication system and solicits business. The other one is written in a foreign language but the fan mail for each looks suspicious. Neither of them has any followers, is following anyone or has any articles on their profile. It just didn't look right to me.
Good for you. We have to be help stop the flow of garbage.
And another one on Discover. An Arabic intro followed by gibberish and ending with a spammy link to an Arabic only website.
Go to the guy's profile page and report him to HP, Rupert.
I agree. Just report, and just carry on.
Done and done
Paul, I don't think it's up to us to offer solutions. We're at the mercy of the new owners of this site. They are the ones who should implement screening factors. After all, they make money before we do. But we're at the low end of their totem pole. We are the last priority. Read between the lines. Have not these changes and passing of the baton over the last couple of years hit home? I see the exit door opening wide.
Paul - I do offer a solution and that is the vigilance of the community in weeding out the crud. I am completely incompetent at suggesting technological suggestions.
I see HP as a collective of writers who have been offered a platform to express their work. Perhaps, I'm naïve - wouldn't be the first time the allegation has been levelled against me.
It's up to us to maintain standards so that our own articles are not living next to crap. We can't rely on the limited resources of HP to clean out all the inappropriate nonsense that is posted - so, to some extent, we have to pitch in.
I like the idea of a simple English proficiency test being used to unlock access. It's been suggested many times before, but I fear miscreants might figure out a work around.
With that, I wish everyone a pleasant good night as I lay my head down on a fluffy pillow - not what one of the My Pillow Guy's garbage head rests.
Rupert, I'm with you in that totally. Within the circle of writers seems a two coin side- good and bad. The later is the challenge.
Your suggestion of the English test could not work because inefficient writers will get copy writers to do the work for them to be paid.
But the community as a whole can help less the spam issues. Yesterday, I read on my time line a discussion topic. Its post by Hubpages or the author? That's the dilemma! But it's a spam. I just report that to team hubpages, instead of commenting, or posting a reply.
Rupert, well rested? Good morning, and have a nice day. Happy Sunday.
Folks, just report and chill. Just imagine how proud any spammer would feel if they read our forums and learn that they are so important to us that we have been discussing them in a forum post for the last 5 days.
Limit their enthusiasm by reporting rather than commenting. If reporting doesn't help, the issue isn't spammers. Let's try to identify the root cause. Such articles should not even be climbed to discover. If it does, the problem is much bigger than what is being discussed here. I hope it makes sense
I like Rupert's idea of having an English test; it should be done when users sign up for this website.
Blessings to all!!
Mizbah, reporting spammers and spams ad is good. That can make such crooks have a second thought though. Then they felt that they'r not wanted or welcome here.
Seriously, I know a writing site online that does a basic English test. You pass the basic and you'll given access to the platform. But that's not all. You must try to pass the intermediate and advance level. Spammers even goes far to take take advantage of these hurdles and land on the platform. Rupert feared this for Hubpages.
More seriously, I'm no longer on that site. It seems the trolls used a software. The site don't use the English test again. They device another tool that that make you...
Mizbah, how does an article don't et to Discover? Or how can we prevent such? Do HubPages writers moderate article submissions?
Just think about that. Or those such spammy writes goes to hubpages? Again, think about that.
Let's just report and keep reporting them. That can make hubpages site up and bring a serious decision on the topic.
I can't take credit for the English test; that was suggested by others sometime ago.
Also, Misbah is quite right. Never comment on a spammy posting, just report.
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