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Should we try it on the forum here?

  1. Uninvited Writer profile image82
    Uninvited Writerposted 7 years ago

    A group of high school students react to Fred Phelps and family with song.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEiwBCpi … r_embedded

    Do you think we should just start singing when faced with self-righteous mud slinging on the forum?

    1. prettydarkhorse profile image64
      prettydarkhorseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I am for it, old people can learn from this high school students "tolerance in diversity"
      thanks UW for posting!

    2. profile image0
      cosetteposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      oOo...i would say yes but then again, it might turn into something like Alex deLarge's rendition of 'Singing In The Rain'... yikes

    3. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      If you're comparing the Phelps group to ANYONE here on this forum, I'd say you're way outta line on that.
      I'm not aware of anyone on this site who says (or condones) the hogwash that that "church" group says or makes signs saying. 

      Hating the sin does NOT equal to hating the people who engage in sin.

      With that said, it's still abominable for a school to promote homosexuality in ANY fashion, whether it's a seductively "peaceful" one or an aggressive agenda.

      1. profile image0
        cosetteposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        "seductively peaceful"? yikesbig_smileroll

        oh boy

        after watching that video, the message was about acceptance and tolerance, it seems to me.

        thank goodness this country's young people are unlearning the prejudiced ways of their parents.

      2. livelonger profile image94
        livelongerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        ♫This little light of mine,
        I'm gonna let it shine ♪
        This little light of mine,♫
        I'm gonna let it shine
        This little light of mine,
        I'm gonna let it shine
        Let it shine,♫
        Let it shine,
        Let it shine. ♪

      3. Daniel Carter profile image78
        Daniel Carterposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I vehemently disagree.

        If hating the sin is the issue, then why is violence thrown at people by those who say they only hate sin not the sinner? It's the same old argument about abortion clinics. Sick, very twisted "Christians" MURDER people who work in abortion clinics. How is that murder ANY different than murders being committed in abortion clinics? Murdering to stop murder is insanity.

        "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
        —Mahatma Ghandi

        1. profile image0
          Brenda Durhamposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          So are you admitting that abortion is murder?

          And the difference is that the unborn child is totally helpless and innocent.

          According to your analogy, I suppose there'd be NO punishment at all for murder in any form.   The laws of man (and God) would be ineffectual and might as well be done away with entirely, if that's the case.

          1. Daniel Carter profile image78
            Daniel Carterposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            You are twisting my words.
            I'm not a liberal. I don't subscribe to any party of belief. They are all false religions to me.

            OF COURSE I THINK ABORTION IS MURDER!

            I stated my case clearly enough and I don't think I need to elaborate. I disagree with your premise and your line of thought.

            That's all.

      4. Uninvited Writer profile image82
        Uninvited Writerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Why would you assume this relates to you? My world does not revolve around your beliefs.

    4. profile image0
      Poppa Bluesposted 7 years agoin reply to this
      1. tantrum profile image60
        tantrumposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I find both videos ,very childish.

        The best thing to do with hate Speech,if you don't want to start a fight, is to ignore it.

        1. profile image0
          Poppa Bluesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          For evil to triumph, all that is necessary is for good men to do nothing.

          1. tantrum profile image60
            tantrumposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            That's a childish remark as well ! LOL

            It goes with the video lol

            Do you still believe in the war between Evil & Good ? hmm

            lol

            1. profile image0
              Poppa Bluesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              I believe that there is evil in the world and that it shouldn't be tolerated. Recently a 15 year old girl prostituted herself and her 7 year old sister. Should we remain silent and tolerate such behaviour?

              1. tantrum profile image60
                tantrumposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                And what this has to do with the original OP ?
                This was about 'hate speech', not about the miseries of this world, which  BTW, are terrible and have beeen going on for ages, without solution.
                You can't be so naive as to think that talking and being concerned about them, is going to change the way this world goes on!!

                1. profile image0
                  Poppa Bluesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  WBC exercises their right to free speech to express their views, you exercise yours and I am exercising mine which is what this thread was about And yes, I am that naive enough to believe that we have a responsibility to speak out and confront evil when we see it, otherwise it will be deemed acceptable.

                  1. tantrum profile image60
                    tantrumposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    Evil has been acceptable in this world, since the beginning of time, in case you didn't know.

                  2. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    Which is why I confront you. wink

                    Still compensating the natives......... lol

    5. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Do you think self righteous people or any Christian group will be concerned or silenced up, with this kind of demonstration ?

      If I were them. I would be LMAO !

      LOL!!

    6. tony0724 profile image60
      tony0724posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I am a terrible singer ! smile

      1. Daniel Carter profile image78
        Daniel Carterposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Still, if I could only howl and I was there, I'd lend my support as best I could...

      2. Jane@CM profile image61
        Jane@CMposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        WOW - what an amazing way these kids stood up to hate!  They stepped up to the plate, they encouraged their community to get involved - these are the kids that will one day be our leaders, co-workers, health care providers, musicians, poets, writers....  They proved to so many people that Love does over come hate!  I'd be so proud of my kids had they been part of that school!

    7. Ladybird33 profile image47
      Ladybird33posted 7 years ago

      Hmmm, I think I am too.

    8. Mikel G Roberts profile image81
      Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years ago

      I think we should sing anyway... I love singing.  big_smile

      I agree that acceptance is better than being tolerated.

      1. rebekahELLE profile image89
        rebekahELLEposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        bravo to the kids and school.

        call it what it is.
        kids are smarter than many adults full of their learned prejudices.  kids don't have them unless it's taught to them.

    9. lovemychris profile image60
      lovemychrisposted 7 years ago

      That is beautiful. That is how to defeat hatred...with love!
      And I will say that did remind me of the 60's...and 70's. That vibe IS back..maybe never left. That is a good good thing.

      Just like that Chinese student standing in front of that tank in Tieneman Square..holding up the peace sign hand. He learned that from the people here!
      Solidarity. Stand up for white is right.

      Good for that school. Does us all proud.

      1. profile image0
        Brenda Durhamposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        "with love"??

        I wonder how many of that school group actually love the opposing group.....
        The Phelps group would be hard for anyone to love, but that's what the school group claims to do (love the Phelps group).

        What say you?   Do you love those people?

        1. lovemychris profile image60
          lovemychrisposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I don't think they said they love the Phelps group...they said they love the people the Phelps group hates!
          Get the difference?

          1. profile image0
            Brenda Durhamposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Sure.
            I was just wondering if others get that point.
            Apparently so!

      2. Mikel G Roberts profile image81
        Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years agoin reply to this



        Freudian slip?

        1. Shadesbreath profile image85
          Shadesbreathposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Wrong side of the issue for that, but I noticed it too. More of an inconvenient typo I'm sure.

      3. Sab Oh profile image54
        Sab Ohposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        "That is beautiful. That is how to defeat hatred...with love!"


        This coming from YOU of all people? You've written page after page about how you see those who disagree as your "enemy" and how much you "hate" them. Talk about a hippy hypocrite!

    10. mega1 profile image80
      mega1posted 7 years ago

      ♫♪♫♪ we shall overcome ♫ we shall overcome ♪♫ we shall overcome somedaaaaaaaay ♫♪♫♪ ♪

    11. skyfire profile image73
      skyfireposted 7 years ago

      Well forum members can also debate on "slinging vs singing" if they wish to.

    12. Shadesbreath profile image85
      Shadesbreathposted 7 years ago

      It's fine in a sort of surface, hippy, feel-good way, but it ignores a lot.  For starters, it begins by calling the other group a "hate group" which means it's not a piece about acceptance despite what it tries to be.  It's only acceptance if you agree with them, otherwise it's using inflamatory rhetoric to not accept the others.

      And did the school let the kids who side with the "hate group" walk across the street and stand with them?  Or were those kids shamed into silence? Given that the principle talked about strategizing in advance, it sounds like the school is taking political sides and using its authority to imbue the kids with whom they share ideology with "leadership" skills and power, facilitating one agenda or another.  Frankly, if my kids went there, I'd rather the faculty spent more time advance planning on how to improve the curriculum.

      1. Mikel G Roberts profile image81
        Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I think I love you.

        Nicely done.

        1. Shadesbreath profile image85
          Shadesbreathposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          big_smile



          You said a mouthful there.  Too bad it ain't gonna happen.

      2. profile image0
        cosetteposted 7 years agoin reply to this




        well i do think it's a shame that too many parents are slackers. they need to step up and parent their children.

        p.s. don't, i repeat, don't watch "Precious". you will be sickened by it. i have to say Mo'Nique gave an amazing performance as the mother (if you can call it that). i think some women don't deserve to be called 'mother' and Precious' mother is one of them. ugh...

        1. livelonger profile image94
          livelongerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Well, if someone or some group hates a group of people based on an immutable characteristic about them, that is about as clear a definition of "hate group" as you can get. Decent people don't have to tolerate or accept hate as a perfectly acceptable alternative, which is what let the Nazis rise to power. They say they hate gays (or that God hates gays, or Jesus hates the sin, or whatever other b.s. proxy that sounds reasonable to themselves). They are a hate group. (One that's still allowed to protest peacefully in public)

          I have a hard time imagining that the school, despite being in a socially progressive area (Palo Alto), would not allow students who sympathized with WBC to go stand with them. The fact that such students, if any, were not profiled in this video doesn't mean they didn't exist.

          And I'm not sure why experiences like this, in which a large group of students chose to respond to a hate group's protest with a peaceful one themselves, is in contradiction with a curriculum. For many of the participating students, this was a character-building experience. I suppose kids are supposed to keep their heads buried in textbooks during the schoolday?

          1. Shadesbreath profile image85
            Shadesbreathposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I agree with you that they are a hate group, but that's because I have an opinion on the matter.  My point is that folks on the forums here are acting like that video was about acceptance, when it's not.  It's about unity amongst people who share a belief system against another group that harbors another, and the school is facilitating it.

            My understanding is that that is a publicly funded school.  I don't want the schools getting into politics, especially politics that are based in or set in active oposition to elements of religion.  I might be happy with the protest they make today, but what if they come out for somethign else tomorrow that I don't agree with?  It's a slippery slope argument, I grant, but why set the precedent.  Equal time arguments can be made and the whole thing becomes distracting from the fact that our kids can't read or write or do math on par with half or more of the world.


              You're right, it doesn't mean they didnt' exist.  However, it certainly doesn't mean they were alowed to exist or made to feel welcome to exist, and I can only go on what I saw, which did not include anything like that.  And we are talkign HIGH SCHOOL here, the emotionally powered hormonal core of peer pressure and social ostracization.  I imagine the kids who believe differently, even if not hate filled like the WBC, felt like they needed to hide their feelings in the closet.  Which is fine, they deserve to be ashamed of their feelings at that age.  It's only fair.  Right?  (And I'm only trying to make a point... my problem is with balance, and politics in school.  I hope you get that.  Parents should raise kids, not government funded schools.)





            So only the students protest was peacful? I think I need to go back and watch the video again. I think I missed something.   

            And yes, I think in HIGH SCHOOL, kids should keep their heads buried in textbooks.  They are too young and emotional and easily manipulated to be whipped into activism.  Their views are the views they are spoon fed during the tiny window of their lives (either by parents or by someone else), and they are easy to make do things.  How else do you think they get young people to run off to battle century after century.  It all plays on naivete. It's far worse (easier) in high school than in college, where it's still the same, but you got to cut them loose sometime.

            1. profile image0
              Brenda Durhamposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Like Mikel,
              I think I love you too!  haha  wink

              I am now one of your "followers" in the land of hubs.

              1. Shadesbreath profile image85
                Shadesbreathposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                Honestly, Brenda, I really only want people to actually communicate instead of so much rhetorical stuff.  On both sides of all the hot issues, everyone is so emotional.  And I get it.  In this particular issue, on side side we have homosexuals being told they are abominable and lots of really horribly mean, cruel things.  On the other hand, we have people who truly believe that God wants them to live a certain way -  GOD!.  Those are two seriously powerful sets of motivations.

                The only way anything will ever be solved is if the sides talk.  Slowly and carefully over time.  And listen.  And that is NEVER going to happen when the TALK is made with words like "abomination" and "hate."

                That's why I step in like I do in forums sometimes.  You'll love me on this thread and hate me on another.  I just keep hoping someday real communication takes place.

                1. Mikel G Roberts profile image81
                  Mikel G Robertsposted 7 years agoin reply to this



                  Me too.

                  "Even just a little bit better, is better."

                2. profile image0
                  Brenda Durhamposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I never hate you.
                  I may hate things you say, and vice versa, I'm sure.
                  But never hate.
                  You've proposed in a couple of posts things that I doubt the "other side" ever considered before.  Which is, I imagine, a good thing.
                  I will still stand by my opinion that there are some issues where open debate only serves as an opening to validate things that should never be validated.   That's when things heat up.
                  But it is what it is....the cat's outta the bag,  the crap's hit the fan (in the U.S. too) and the battle wages on.......

                  1. Shadesbreath profile image85
                    Shadesbreathposted 7 years agoin reply to this



                    Well, I think therein lies the rub.  Using terms like "never" is a tough place from which to start working for peace. 

                    The idea that something should "never be validated" not only assumes an absolute truth (and I get that your belief system gives you access to that, which is fine; I won't argue that now), but it creates a scenario where in there is either "valid" or "invalid." A binary. 

                    In most moral issues, there aren't really binaries, there are real life stories, told one at a time, that start to infuse the "good" or "evil" easy compartmentalization with the fact that life isn't as neat and tidy as a cozy little binary that fits like warm stockings on the cold feet of someone unwilling to live in true peace on a planet where there is more than one system of beliefs.

                    1. profile image0
                      Brenda Durhamposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                      Believe it or not, I understand where you're coming from.

                      It's just not the same place as where Jesus was coming from,  nor I.   He didn't come to bring total peace to earth.  He came to challenge mankind to the very core of their hearts and souls.

                      There will never be universal peace on earth.   ...Unless it's a benignly-boring, dreamlike-robotic place of apathy,  or some tyranny-behind-the-scenes-controlled place like in the Matrix!  haha.   I couldn't survive there.   I need passion, fervency at the core of life.   I need those "absolutes".
                      I'll be so bold as to say I believe everyone, not just me, needs that.

                      1. profile image0
                        cosetteposted 7 years agoin reply to this



                        seriously i would rather be dead, or in Hell, even, than living forever in a world like that. at least in Hell you would get desensitized after the first ten years or so then you would start to have fun, i would imagine...

                      2. mega1 profile image80
                        mega1posted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Brenda needs her daily shot of adrenaline!  Cheap high

            2. livelonger profile image94
              livelongerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              ...insofar that thinking that the WBC's views are immoral and tasteless. Remember, they're not only an anti-gay group (fewer people had a problem with them when they were only saying "God Hates Fags" - they ran aground of majority opinion only when they started picketing (straight) servicemembers' funerals.) My point is that you can find anti-gay people who still hate the WBC, as Brenda demonstrates here. Yes, it is.  I wasn't aware that feelings about gay people was a political issue. Would it have been any different if KKK members were protesting blacks and Jews instead? Are the KKK Left or Right?I understand and agree with your overall sentiment, but I doubt very much Gunn has any issue with literacy or academic achievement. When I was a kid, in a situation like this, we might have had discussions in the classroom about what was going on, which might have been more fruitful and which might have not provoked a backlash.
              Well, Shadesbreath, if in-classroom discussion had taken place instead of a counterprotest, the same sort of ostracization of minority views could have taken place. We don't know to what degree the administration encouraged students to respect each others' views, but from I see, I don't see an angry, venomous tone to the counterprotest (unlike, obviously, WBC's protest). No, sorry; WBC's protest was peaceful, too. I meant that the response to protests can often result in things thrown at the protesters, or at least angry shouting.
              I understand where you're coming from, but, again, I don't see an undercurrent of impassioned activism or specific agenda among all the counterprotesters. But I would honestly have preferred an open discussion in the classroom instead. Even as a gay liberal myself, the "kumbaya" aspect of the protest made me feel a bit uneasy.

              1. Shadesbreath profile image85
                Shadesbreathposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                I think you and I are pretty close on all this except that I just don't like publically funded HIGH schools getting involved in politics. And I believe that I really do know what you mean when you say, "I wasn't aware that feelings about gay people is a political issue."  And I agree with what I think you are saying, that being gay isn't a political decision.  It's just a fact of being.  I totally get that.

                But I also think you know what I mean when I say that what is going on at that school IS politics because it's about the political realities that are taking place around gay marriage and gay rights as reflected by the legistlative process in this country.  That IS politics.

                And, as I said before, I just don't think a high school filled with impressionable, ignorant teenagers is the place to wage that war... especially since everyone is paying taxes for that school.  Haters, non-haters, dis-interested, distracted and LGBT alike.

                1. livelonger profile image94
                  livelongerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I hear you. I tend to agree, although I still believe protests like WBC would make a discussion/debate over these kinds of issues timely. I don't know how you can do that without injecting bias and allowing people to dissent without fear of retribution, but I think the key is getting people to talk.

                  1. rebekahELLE profile image89
                    rebekahELLEposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    the key is getting people (students) to think, to question, and to discuss. it sounds like the administration did encourage discussion in the classroom which would have been very interesting to hear how it was addressed. there are many, many young people, young adults who are very concerned with equal rights and they have a strong voice. the children of baby boomers, the millennial generation are for the most part proactive, optimistic and innovative and they have been told they can do anything by their parents.

                    I personally don't see teenagers as a whole impressionable and ignorant, some yes, but certainly not all teenagers.

                    1. livelonger profile image94
                      livelongerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                      Yes, good point. Every generation is more free-thinking than the last, and I think we have reason to share the younger generations' optimism.

      3. profile image0
        Crazdwriterposted 7 years ago

        I would but I can't sing very well...even when I was teaching I hated the thought of singing in front of my kids lol but of course I did it for them.
        So if it means someone will leave me the hell alone then yep I'll start singing.

        Oh and livelonger that was one of the songs we sang with the kids. Love that song smile and totally miss singing it with them sad

      4. profile image0
        getmybackposted 7 years ago

        5,6,7, and..........

        http://s3.hubimg.com/u/2784698_f520.jpg

      5. Uninvited Writer profile image82
        Uninvited Writerposted 7 years ago
        1. tantrum profile image60
          tantrumposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          LOL! And they ask why they can't be friends ? roll

          What can I say? hmm

          I don't want to get banned ! lol

        2. profile image0
          Crazdwriterposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          lol I used that title in one of my recent hubs smile

      6. Uninvited Writer profile image82
        Uninvited Writerposted 7 years ago

        I give up, this forum is filled with too many negative people for it to work here. Some are not willing to have anything positive to add to anything.

      7. mega1 profile image80
        mega1posted 7 years ago

        I think the error in thinking that has been coming unraveled lately is when people link things together in their minds that have nothing to do with each other like:

        sin = sexuality or sexual preferences

        sex = nasty

        free thought = immoral

        sexual preference = reflection of your worth as a human

        and so on - these are the kind of equations young people now don't necessarily come up with when they are reasoning about an issue.  The trick is to get people of all ages to actually train their reasoning power and use it when they make decisions about things like "who is good"

       
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