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Mutliple people using one Hub account

  1. mroconnell profile image74
    mroconnellposted 9 years ago

    I just saw a website advertising ghost hubwriting.  You pay a person $75 and give her your username/password and she writes a hub for you within two weeks.

    ...

    I know, right?  What the -----

    But uh, I guess I wanted to ask is this okay with the HubPage gods?  It seems like HubPages would want highquality hubs even if somebody is getting ripped off to make it a reality.  It seems like this scheme could be beneficial to HubPages.  But it also seems like it's a blatant abuse of SOMETHING that must be in the TOS.

    "You are solely responsible for the content in Your Hubs including text, data, images, video and links that You display on Your Hubs with the Hubpages Service."

    But even if this activity is wrong, how would we enforce a rule forbidding it?

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Um, I've announced this on the forum. Not sure if there's more than 1 person doing it for $75, but I said I've sodl 48 of them. Even Jenny's daughter creates Hubs for people! It's not against TOS.

      My customers give me their niche topic and I create the Hub for them.
      I don't see how it's a bad thing...
      Tiff wink

  2. SunSeven profile image68
    SunSevenposted 9 years ago

    If it is ethical, why not?

    Frankly, I'd like to see the results:)

    In fact this could happen to any revenue sharing site

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I don't stay in their account smile I just develop unique, quality content, add images, publish, and let them take over from there.

      This is especially helpful for people who can't write well (or don't have time, but want to get their ideas shared).

      Sun, I'm a big fan of yours. I'll let you know results when and if I hear about them, which I'm sure I will. lol
      tiff wink

      1. Inspirepub profile image81
        Inspirepubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Make sure they understand that they need to remain active in the HubPages community - if their personal score drops below 75, those links will have "no follow" applied.

        Of course, they may never notice that, but I know you're ethical enough that it would bother you if that happened.

        Jenny

        1. profile image0
          TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Good idea! I was going to include that in my eBook, but I will add it to my "your lens is ready" spiel. Thanks, Jenny!
          tiff

  3. Rik Ravado profile image92
    Rik Ravadoposted 9 years ago

    My only thought is why?  It would take me a long time to earn $75 from any of my Hubs.  I can't believe it would make economic sense unless the hub is spammy in which case it will get taken down anyway.

    PS: Should you want Hubs ghost-written for $70 then Rik is you man!  I'm only kidding (I think).

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Now that'd be really bad business if I created spammy Hubs that my customers paid for, only to get them shut down so they lost their money wink

      I write quality content. Some I've built are on raw foods, how to write a biography, skincare tips, fitness tips...nothing "make a million dollars overnight-ish"

      I promise, I only develop good Hubs for my customers.
      They get 1-2 links going to their domain, and Hub pages gets quality Hubs made along with a share of the revenue the people paid to have generated!

      It's a win-win for all smile

  4. SunSeven profile image68
    SunSevenposted 9 years ago

    Wishing you all success Tiffany. A fast buck without hurting anybody is fine! smile

    All these make me want to sell my hubs. They make around 500$ in adsense alone per month. Any takers? If you are interested I will sell them to the highest bidder.

    (Well, whats stopping me in thinking along those lines if ghost hubwriting is the norm of the day! smile )

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Now see, you could sell that if they'd let you transfer Hubs. lol!

      Otherwise, you'd have to sell your entire account...and start fresh.
      But if you ever do decide to sell your account, I'd post it in the Warrior Forum WSO (Warrior Special Offer) section. You have to join (free) and participate for awhile, but then you're allowed to post a WSO and I know lots of people would probably want that! lol
      tiff wink

  5. Rik Ravado profile image92
    Rik Ravadoposted 9 years ago

    Good luck to you Tiffany - I know you write quality Hubs.  I guess your clients are more interested in the quality links than the Adsense earnings. 

    Sun 7 - I'm impressed you are making an average of $3.50 per Hub per month with Adsense (much more than me) although I know your Hubs are extremely good and readable.

    Best wishes to both of you and your online careers!

  6. gamergirl profile image59
    gamergirlposted 9 years ago

    Did you ever get that email I sent you, Tiffany? wink

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      No, did you really? I didn't get an email. email me again...I'm gonna go switch my account to gmail.
      tiff

    2. Sally's Trove profile image83
      Sally's Troveposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Did you ever get mine?  smile

      1. profile image0
        TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        No, Sally I didn't. try again! I changed my email to a gmail and it's getting through now!
        tiff wink

  7. Whitney05 profile image83
    Whitney05posted 9 years ago

    $75 seems a lot for a hub that may only eary a few cents a month. Some are big earners, but not all. I dunno... Not something that seems worthwhile. It only takes like 1-2 hours to write a really good hub, something less. I'm not sure why someone would pay that price for 1-2 hours.

    mroconnell, I don't believe  there's anything against it in the TOS, but other sites allow it. I just think the idea is stupid. No offense to anyone. Just seems like a way to get a quick buck.

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Most of these people outsource their content creation. I'm adding images. It's not for the Hub money - it's for the link. They get to be positioned as an authority figure in their niche, and they get a backlink from an authority site. They get traffic to their domains, and to affiliate money.

      But $75 for 1-2 hours? I wouldn't even work for that wink It takes me 15 minutes to write my Hub content. 20 Max. I build Hubs in under 30 total, including tagging. And same goes for my Squidoo lenses. But I charge $249 for those. People pay smile

      The articles I write would cost them $90 to hire me, so they're getting a good deal - content, images, and set-up for just $75 wink
      tiff

      1. Whitney05 profile image83
        Whitney05posted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Wow, that's even worse.

        When I say 1-2 hours, I am referring to really good hubs, usually those with over 1,000 words, pictures, links, videos, etc. Several of my top hubs have been written all off the top of my head with pictures from my computer and take much less time, but for a hub with tons of content, it can take much longer than a half an hour. No offense.

        1. profile image0
          TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Right, well if the word count went up, so would the price wink I write 750 words, not 1,000 and they get images, tags, sometimes youtube videos, and their links and affiliate capsules smile

          No offense taken! To each his/her own wink
          I'm perfectly happy with what I'm charging and they're happy to pay.
          tiff wink

  8. MrMarmalade profile image75
    MrMarmaladeposted 9 years ago

    I knew I should have set up in life as a writing genius.
    The things i have missed out on.
    Still I think i should have thought of that. I consider my self a little like sponge. (Soak up all the good ideas.)

  9. SweetiePie profile image83
    SweetiePieposted 9 years ago

    I have written a couple of hubs for my friend for free.  He does not speak good English, so I helped him because he is my friend.  So I guess if people want to make money that is up to them.  It is not something I would be interested in because I just would write for my friends.  Also I write on topics I enjoy and these topics are not always that popular with the masses.

  10. Zsuzsy Bee profile image91
    Zsuzsy Beeposted 9 years ago

    I might be in the left field here....hire someone to write a hub???? What the h***? I became a hubber to write. Doesn't everyone?
    Only a dingbat can think they're going to become a millionaire writing hubs.
    Sorry I'm lost here I just don't understand.....hire someone to write your articles.....next people hire someone to live for them too?

    totally confused Zsuzsy

    1. Patty Inglish, MS profile image93
      Patty Inglish, MSposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Maybe so, Zsuzsy; I woudn't be surprised


      Patty writes-her-own smile

      1. Zsuzsy Bee profile image91
        Zsuzsy Beeposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Does all this make sense to you Patty????

    2. Lissie profile image79
      Lissieposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      No you're not mad Zsuzsy - just coming from a different direction: you enjoy writing and having audience.  Others on the internet are trying to earn an income via sales - the main way to do this is to get an website which is making you money (via Adsense, affiliate products, EBay whatever) - but to get search traffic to the website you need backlinks - so that your website appears to have "authority" in the great Google god eyes! You website is the rated higher in google listings and your sales improve - if you can buy a hub for $75 and then have it produce $150 of commissions for you - its good business.

      1. Zsuzsy Bee profile image91
        Zsuzsy Beeposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        I guess I live in my own little world here...Greetings Lissie on the other side of the world

        1. Lissie profile image79
          Lissieposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Well you get that living in Australia! Seriously though I think its kinda intereting the cross-over- I started with the make money quick schemes, found HP, found I could actually write (I hadn't before except for work or school) and now I have made the circle make to make money because I understand so much more now I hope I can combine the 2 successfully!

          1. Zsuzsy Bee profile image91
            Zsuzsy Beeposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            I guess I will have to my my fortune the hard way (but fun way by writing my own words).
            warmest regards Zsuzsy

    3. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Zsyzsy!

      I'll try to explain. Let's say you are a stay at home mom who wants to make money online.
      You find out about severl opportunities...affiliate marketing, information products (ebooks), drop shipping companies, ebay, etc.

      So you pick a niche. You choose fitness for baby boomers. You write an eBook since you know a lot about it, or you like the topic but aren't a good writer, so you hire a ghostwriter. You launch a site, to sell your eBook.

      Now you need traffic. You need backlinks to help your site get found in Google and ranked higher (the more quality backlinks, the better you rate, supposedly).

      But you're so busy with everything, you don't have time to create social pages like Squidoo lenses and Hub Pages, So you see an offer - $75 for a Hub that has unique (not plagiairzed) content, with up to (but no more than) 2 backlinks to your domain.

      It also gives you the opportunity to earn AdSense money and Amazon sales selling more fitness and baby boomer stuff. You sell your eBook for $47 a pop (yes, and that's on the low end of eBooks, too).

      So in less than 2 sales, it's paid for itself.

      Your Hub gets indexed in Google FAST, thanks to Hub Pages. You start seeing Google hits, the content is valuable, so guess what? Bianca Baby Boomer who Googled fitness over 50 decides to buy from your link because what she's seen already is quality.

      You make a sale. You smile wink
      Money well spent.

      This is how they're using it wink

  11. Patty Inglish, MS profile image93
    Patty Inglish, MSposted 9 years ago

    Hi Zsuzsy!

    I think Lisse said it right. People are using it for a business, which is OK.

    But if they can't write and don't have the expertise in a subject, its not good to me. Kinda reminds me of  the medical students I knew that had the nursing students take their anatomy exams for them in bygone days! I would not want them to operate on me, for sure. smile

    1. Zsuzsy Bee profile image91
      Zsuzsy Beeposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      You hit the nail on its head Patty. If you can't write then what the h*** are you doing here       (I know, I know I'm not computer world savvy).zs

  12. Patty Inglish, MS profile image93
    Patty Inglish, MSposted 9 years ago

    That's nice Lissie. Congratulations! smile

  13. Sally's Trove profile image83
    Sally's Troveposted 9 years ago

    This thread is great for the HP gods to consider while formulating the next 5-year plan...some of us use HP to showcase our own writings, and others use it to make money showcasing others' writings and slipping very clever marketing strategies into the mix. Either way, HP makes out. Another evolutionary step. Where will it go after this?

    1. Zsuzsy Bee profile image91
      Zsuzsy Beeposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      It can only go as far as we let it. Sooner or later even our food will have to come pre-chewed. We'll hire some one to excercise for us that way we're in good shape right???

      deep sigh here life is getting weirder everyday...regards zs

  14. Patty Inglish, MS profile image93
    Patty Inglish, MSposted 9 years ago

    Well, here's best wishes to the Continuing Adventure!  smile

  15. mroconnell profile image74
    mroconnellposted 9 years ago

    Thanks for explaining the business model, Tiff.  I didn't mean to call you out specifically for another round of harassment and I'm glad the thread has kept civil so far.





    I guess this just means that you are legally responsible and not that you are responsible for the creation of it?

    1. Inspirepub profile image81
      Inspirepubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I think all it really means in the TOC is that HubPages AREN'T legally responsible, actually. smile

      The liability allocation between you and the person who pays you to write a Hub SHOULD be spelled out in the written agreement you have them sign ... smile

      1. mroconnell profile image74
        mroconnellposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Aha.

  16. spuds profile image61
    spudsposted 9 years ago

    I don't have a problem with it although why not make your own hubs. After all it's pretty easy and it's free.

    1. Inspirepub profile image81
      Inspirepubposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I think the point is, Spuds, that it's not actually "pretty easy" for many people, for example those who find writing anything - even a shopping list - a chore, or those who find working the technology of capsules and stuff intimidating.

      Those who are fluent with words and conversant with technology can be a little condescending to those who aren't.

      If you want a result, and you are not good at doing the process, pay someone who is. That's why we have motor mechanics, hairdressers, elementary school teachers, lawnmowing services, and bookkeepers.

      Why not do all those things for yourself, too?

      Jenny

      1. profile image0
        TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        ***Standing Ovation***

        You took the words right out of my fog-laden brain.
        tiff wink

      2. mroconnell profile image74
        mroconnellposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        I avoid driving, fix my own tractor or get help from friends, cut my own hair, hate compulsory schooling and skipped a lot of it, don't have a lawn, am a professional horticulturist though (viticulture specifically), and keep my own books, file my own taxes, etc.  BUT I see your point.

        As a matter of fact HubPages itself is sort of perfect proof of your argument.  If we wanted, we could do all the legwork to get a really sweet website of our own where we got 100% of the adsense revenue.  But we're all writing for hubpages and splitting the revenue with them, so we're all paying hubpages to do the programming and promotion for us in a way.

        Then again, you might say that the reason we do that is for community (which has a value to us that is greater than the accomplishment of having a sweet website in isolation).

        I'm babbling.

        I think I get it.

        1. SunSeven profile image68
          SunSevenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          I think you got Tiff's point. No one is an island! smile

  17. robie2 profile image98
    robie2posted 9 years ago

    Just read this whole thread and can't resist a comment. When I worked in PR I was often paid to write material for others--speeches, newspaper articles,letters and the like. Often my work appeared under someone else's byline in print, and who hasn't written letters for somebody else's signature?  No surprise that much internet content is also "ghostwritten"and that people are doing it on Hubpages. No big deal. Nice thing about Hubpges is that it accommodates all kinds of writers who are here for all kinds of reasons. There's room here for all of us which is one of the things I like most. You go Tiff. I hope you make a fortune smile

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Aww, thanks, Robie! So far so good...everyone's amazed with their Hubs. Good, valuable content, within the rules, and nice images to boot.
      Tiff smile

      1. profile image0
        terrygposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Tiff what a great idea. You truly are a talented marketer. $75.00 is a good hit in anyones language so I tip my hat to you. As for the value I see several things. Yes you would provide the "template" for a good hub that the purchaser then follows to rinse and repeat or duplicate its potential for success and thus generate money in itself.

        Two- the link power when it hits the top hubs page will be worth a lot more than $75.00 for the two outbound links with such page rank power.

        I know a few other ghost writers who would love to get in on this type of deal.  Now the cat is outta the bag this might be a good thing for you, advertising wise, or build up some competition.

      2. robie2 profile image98
        robie2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Good for you, Tiff. Keep it up. Some  may fear that what you are doing will "cheapen" Hubpages. I think the opposite is true, as you are clearly a thoughtful professional with a clear business vision and not a spammer. You've gone out of your way to become part of this community and not to abuse it. You are clearly here for the long haul and not just to make a quick buck. That's prolly part of why your clients are so happy--doing well by doing good, dontchaknow smile

  18. Mark Knowles profile image61
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    The way I see it, the potential problem is the other way round.

    Speaking as someone who makes the bulk of his money writing other people's blogs, I have no problem with someone writing hubs for someone else, and can't see why this would be a problem for anyone.

    But, I do see a potential problem with eventually breaking hubpages TOS if a lot of the hubs written in this fashion end up with links to the same place.

    If you look at the way the TOS is written, it also warns that penalties can be applied if, even when you stick within the letter of the rule, a large amount of links point to the same place.

    So, if 500 people buy a hub with links to xyz marketing for example, each individual hub or account may not break the rules, but collectively they could.

    And I would guess that hubpages do not differentiate between lots of different accounts with one or two hubs being written from the same IP address and one big account with lots of hubs.

    Might be worth looking into?

    1. robie2 profile image98
      robie2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      good point--hadn't thought of that .

    2. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Good thought, Mark!  With my list of current 49 customers for example...wait...29 and one guy bought 20....they all link to their own websites.

      But the guy with 20 Hubs, for example...he knew of Hub Pages TOS, so he links to various different pages he has about his product, not all the same one. So some link to his blog, some to a domain, some to Squidoo lenses, etc. He's mixing it up well.

      I think as long as they're educated, it'll be okay. But with most marketers, they won't all be linking to xyz marketing because they'll link to their own squeeze page first (if they're smart). lol
      tiff

  19. Mark Knowles profile image61
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    Just a thought. If you already have it taken care of it's not a problem.

    The only thing that would worry me in this case, is if I made a mistake and had my hub banned for one customer, it could end up affecting another unrelated customer.

    Like I said, I have no problem with doing this and as long as you know how to stay within the rules, it should be no problem.

    I gave this some thought myself and there were just too many possibilities to mess up for me.

    As all the hubs are going to effectively be under the same account, I could write a hub that was within the rules, do another 50 and then the guy who owns the first one decides he wants a few extra links in, comes in, adds them and gets the hub unpublished - along with all the other customer's hubs.

    Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a way of transferring hubs to another account, which would solve the problem.

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Oh! I getcha now. No, I don't build them under my own account. I tell my customers they have to set up a temporary password for me to let me log into their account. Then once I'm finished, they change their password back!

      smile

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        I don't think that makes any difference. I have a feeling your IP address will be associated with all the accounts and they will not be considered separate by hubpages. Worth making sure I would think?

  20. Zsuzsy Bee profile image91
    Zsuzsy Beeposted 9 years ago

    I'm going to stick my nose in here again....I don't see anything wrong with ghostwriting or writing letters for others etc. I have few jobs like that myself. But somehow I was under the impression that Hubpages was a place for writers who want to write. Writers who don't want to be bothered or maybe can't do all that techno crap set-up like me. 
    Again I emphasize hubbers writing hubs. I guess I'm kind of disappointed....there are clay-feet showing.

    How will I know when I comment on a well written hub? To me hubpages just seemed so personal. Do I make sense to anyone? To use an old fashioned saying 'Do you know where I'm coming from? 
    I'm not trying to step on any toes but as I said before I thought this was a writing site not a pretend I know what I'm talking (writing) about site. Just my thoughts.

  21. Mark Knowles profile image61
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    ZB - I know where you are coming from. Only time will tell if it has a detrimental effect or not.

    Hubpages is "evolving," all the time LOL

    I personally think it's a bad idea and prefer to sell my writing-for-hire else where. But I can't say it shouldn't be done, just that there are some potential issues to doing it.

    The major issue as far as I am concerned is how much of it goes on and the likely detrimental effect on hubpages' authority. Tiff may have managed to work out how to stay within the letter of hubpages rules, but I suspect there will be a lot of people trying this who aren't so assiduous.

    Which is the real reason she got such a bad reaction when she first "announced," this as a marketing ploy. The amount of copycats.

    If we get a few hundred people doing this and selling ghost written hubs as a "great way to get backlinks to your site." LOL - We may have a problem. If all the link juice starts flowing out instead of in then it becomes a problem. Especially if google decides this is just another way of selling links. Which it is.

    1. Whitney05 profile image83
      Whitney05posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Mark, I, too, agree this is a bad idea. You point out so many reasons as to why it is bad for everyone not just the people directlyl involved.

      I really hope that there aren't any copycats that mess anything up for the rest of us.

      This all seems to be a bad idea overall to me. Tiff may have been able to figure around the rules to make it work for her, but not everyone is as "savvy," if you want to call it that.

      I don't think that HP should be used as any marketing ploy, at least I don't think that's why it was created to begin with, so it shouldn't be made that now. Personally, I think those who have that idea, need to find a new means of marketing....

    2. Misha profile image76
      Mishaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Reason for my bad reaction was different. I don't have a problem with marketing, I am a marketer myself. However, I don't like people who lie to me and then pretend this was normal. This may be normal for them, but those are people I prefer not to have around. Surprisingly, seemingly everybody else here has a different approach to this issue, so I just stay away smile

      1. Mark Knowles profile image61
        Mark Knowlesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Not my only issue Misha.

        My biggest issue is the way it is being sold:

        "Fed up of having your accounts at hubpages deleted?

        Can't work out how to get the maximum amount of linkjuice and traffic to your sites from an authority site because you can't work out how the TOS works?

        Let me write a hub for you. I know how to work around the rules so you don't get banned."

        This is different to selling your writing skills. What it amounts to is selling links and I am not so sure it's a good idea. We shall see. smile

        1. robie2 profile image98
          robie2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

          hmmm didn't know about the sales pitch either hmmmmmmm pause for thought. On the other hand there are probably others writing hubs for clients--just under the radar so Tiff gets points in my book for announcing who she is and what she is doing up front--must say  I don't have an ax to grind here.  Just think that there are all kinds of motives for being on hubpages, and room for them all.

          1. Misha profile image76
            Mishaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Robbie, this is exactly what she did not do until she was forced to do. And still insisted she was right about not disclosing it...

        2. pauldeeds profile image
          81
          pauldeedsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Mark -- I understand your concerns.  You'll just have to trust that we'll work out how to reward to the behaviors that are good collectively for HubPages, and not reward the behaviors that are not.  The factors that go into Hubber and HubScore are constantly evolving.  One goal with them, is to be sure that links are nofollowed for accounts that, while not in violation of our rules, still aren't contributing much of value to the community.  I don't mean, of course, to say that ghost written content can't contribute something of value, but that we'll judge each Hub, Hubber, and pattern of linking on it's own merits (to the best of our ability).

  22. Zsuzsy Bee profile image91
    Zsuzsy Beeposted 9 years ago

    Thank you Mark! For stating the whole spiel in a more technical way then me. It just feels wrong.

  23. Misha profile image76
    Mishaposted 9 years ago

    Not my only, too smile

    I just think all the other issues could have been worked out if not for this I deem the major one sad
    How can you be sure that she does not do things her way even publicly agreeing to you here? Granted it never can be guaranteed, but in her case the odds heavily favor the worst case scenario...

  24. Mark Knowles profile image61
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    Not arguing with you big_smile

  25. Misha profile image76
    Mishaposted 9 years ago

    Not arguing with you either smile I'm just surprised with the level of help she keeps receiving from the community... people seem to like to be lied to, and this observation kinda amazes me smile

    1. Mark Knowles profile image61
      Mark Knowlesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I agree. I have kept out of it but felt it was worth pointing out some of the potential pitfalls. She seems  confident she has it all worked out though.

      And robie - she wasn't upfront. And still isn't being so. There is a big difference between writing a guide to hubpages and selling hubs that manage to barely comply with the TOS. Which is what she is doing.

      1. robie2 profile image98
        robie2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Well, Mark and Misha, I guess I don't have all the info--been too busy this week-end with my crashed laptop g-r-r-r-r-r-r-r.  to do my usual lurk in the forums routine. But seems like team hubpages is on the case--soooooooo  it's time for wait and see. smile

  26. SunSeven profile image68
    SunSevenposted 9 years ago

    I guess it is another point in the learning curve for all of us. smile

  27. Mark Knowles profile image61
    Mark Knowlesposted 9 years ago

    Paul - I am sure you will. smile

    robie - Yes. We shall see.

    Learning curves, gotta love 'em big_smile

    1. SunSeven profile image68
      SunSevenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      smile

  28. gamergirl profile image59
    gamergirlposted 9 years ago

    See, now I kind of feel bad.

    I thought maybe writing some hubs for money on the side - while writing my own stuff for fun like I have been these last few months - might be a good idea.

    Now I'm thinking it may not be.

    1. SunSeven profile image68
      SunSevenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      But why?!

      1. Misha profile image76
        Mishaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        I don't see any problem with that either smile

  29. profile image0
    TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago

    (biting tongue for the good of the community)...

    So anyhoo... I just built my 19th Hub. Not one link in it but a few Amazon and eBay capsule. And the one the day before that had no links, and the day before THAT...and so on. Do some of mine have self serving links? Sure! But I will be balancing it all out.

    FYI, while the forum seems to be where tempers flare, I'd like to say that 99.999% of the Hub community who reached out to me via email were very welcoming and helpful - and still are! They saw what had happened and wanted to reassure me that "not everyone's like that," so I don't feel the need to respond to the attacks.

    I'll just do my thing and you do yours smile Wanted to make sure that other newbies don't come here reading this, feeling like it's a hostile community, because of a very few people when most are like Robie, Jenny, and Sun - just positive, welcoming people with a good attitude.

    Tiff smile

    PS as an FYI to Paul - I am going to be encouraging my customers to build non-self serving Hubs, too. Things that balance out the system. It's good branding as a person. Part of what my existing customers like is my non-IM lenses on Squidoo where they get to know "me" a little more. It's an important part of being online. Just to allay any fears that I'm encouraging a flood of self promotional Hubs.

    1. SunSeven profile image68
      SunSevenposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I think you should join the HP team. smile

    2. Stacie Naczelnik profile image74
      Stacie Naczelnikposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I don't want to get involved in an argument, but I can't help but put my two cents in here.  We can have disagreements on the forums without it being a hostile environment.  In fact, I think this thread is a perfect example of that.

      There might be a "very few people" who are speaking out here, but that doesn't mean they are hostile or negative.  We all have a vested interest in HubPages - and I think the discussion going on this thread is great for all of us because a lot of valid points and questions have been raised on all sides.

      Life isn't always just positive and welcoming, but that doesn't mean that the people who aren't gushing about how great an idea is don't have a good attitude.

      Whatever my opinion is of this kind of ghost-"hub"-writing, I really appreciate the diverse conversation in this thread and hope it doesn't turn into an attack on the people who disagree with these tactics.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

      1. profile image0
        TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Oh, Stacie I'm not disagreeing with that. But go back a page or two. What I meant by hostile is calling someone a liar and saying that everything she's doing is most likely a worst case scenario deal IS a tad hostile, is it not? wink In my world, it is...

        But if that's the way discussions go 'round here, I'll happily evolve my methods to adjust accordingly.
        tiff wink

  30. profile image0
    TiffanyDowposted 9 years ago

    Sometimes I forget that I've amassed a certain reputation (no jokes here guys) for influencing users of the web 2.0 community. I try to teach them the right way, but whenever an issue pops up that raises a concern with the community I'm discussing, I TRY my BEST to fix it before it gets out of control.  SO...

    Since a few of you are worried about the self serving Hub Pages, I posted a notice (read below) to teach my followers about this. Here it is ... And Misha, Mark...whomever...I'm always willing to learn (etiquette-wise) if you want to be nice and say, "Hey Tiff - that's not really cool 'round here...we'd appreciate it if.." blah blah..

    I understand how the initial hullaballo went down, hence the apology Hub.  But there's not more I can do than to say I was sorry and extend an olive branch. If you want people to learn, you can't just slam and run - explain to them what's wrong, see if they see the light (which I did on the other issue and have here, too) and just be nice about it. So here's the lesson I've posted to people who look to me for an education on this stuff (okay, or no?):

    >>So you may or may not know how I teach socialization of web 2.0 sites. I believe in being a part of the community, providing valuable interaction, etc.

    But I get it that many marketers don't have time for this and want to "use" the sites solely for their linking abilities and traffic.

    This is okay, too - just not my style - but on Hub Pages, you're going to find yourself penalized if you don't adhere to the etiquette of the community and here's how:

    You know that Hub Pages ONLY allows 2 links on a Hub to a single domain, right? (If not, you know now).

    Well if you have a bunch of Hubs and even though they adhere to the TOS about the 2 link rule, if you're linking to the same domain across ALL of your Hubs, the site will administer "nofollow" tags to your account.

    According to one of the Hub Pages staff, "One goal with them (meaning marketers), is to be sure that links are nofollowed for accounts that, while not in violation of our rules, still aren't contributing much of value to the community."

    So here's my suggestion to you. Have a nice even mix of Hubs that are self-serving and Hubs that do nothing but provide good information!

    I have some Hubs that promote my PLR site, my eBook site, and others, but I also put my Dad's Chicken and Brown Gravy recipe on a Hub, I built one about conference calling tools, and I made another about Halo Wars (just cuz my son's looking forward to it).

    This isn't JUST for the ability to stay in Hub Pages' good graces, though - it's so that you appear to be a quality contributor in the eyes of your visitors and Hub fans. No one wants to be "sold to" all of the time.

    They like to get to know YOU as a person, as a marketer, as a fellow Internet user.

    So please, when you log into your Hub Pages account, for every self serving Hub you build, create one that shares a slice of life with people who want to get to know you - or give them something without expecting anything in return.

    I'm Tiffany Dow...and I endorse my own message <<

    Thoughts? Gripes? Concerns? I'm trying to help others learn the ropes, too...ad it INCLUDES etiquette.

  31. gamergirl profile image59
    gamergirlposted 9 years ago

    I thought that's what was being talked about as a bad thing, though - selling the content that would go into a Hub for a flat fee?

    I haven't had enough caffeine yet, I don't think.  LOL

  32. Misha profile image76
    Mishaposted 9 years ago

    Some people here think this is bad - I am not among them. In fact I'm buying text for most of my hubs myself smile

  33. Misha profile image76
    Mishaposted 9 years ago

    OK, for those who missed the beginning, it is here:

    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/4080
    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/4168

    Now Tiffany,

    I am not a total newbie to bulletin boards, and I took a special care not to call you a liar. I said that you lied and you insisted on your right to lie, and therefore odds of you lying in future are higher than if you haven't.

    I don't want to go any further. Those two threads seem to be self-explanatory, and I already told you there all what I could.

    I only can add that discussions here are usually very relaxed and polite - but be assured they can become pretty harsh if this is called for. smile

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      LOL!!

  34. Stacie Naczelnik profile image74
    Stacie Naczelnikposted 9 years ago

    You know, the forums here generally aren't hostile and we do manage to have pleasant discussions - and even debates.  A great example is that Misha and I rarely agree, yet I believe we have managed to be fairly civil to each other.  Right, Misha?  Will this be one of the rare occasions where we agree on something?

    smile

    1. Misha profile image76
      Mishaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely smile

  35. gamergirl profile image59
    gamergirlposted 9 years ago

    Hey now,

    Misha does have a point.

    Everyone lies.  That doesn't make everyone a liar in that evil habitual way.  I think of a liar as someone who does it often.

    1. Whitney05 profile image83
      Whitney05posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly what I was about to say...

      There's no need to get an attitude. :-\

    2. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I agree and this seems to contradict what he was saying...what I WAS going to be a "liar" more often.

      Anyway, I still say I didn't lie. When I'm communicating with other Hubbers letting them know I am writing an eBook (and staff knows) and I'm letting everyone know I'm a total newbie (yes, my customers)...that's not lying, folks!

      I wanted to learn HP for me first and foremost, and then share the information with my customers. Period.

      Because I was already not hiding the fact that I was writing an eBook starting out as a newbie to my customers AND to people involved with HP, I didn't consider that a problem.

      Like I said before, anyone who feels it's a problem doesn't need to answer my questions. Luckily, many don't have the same viewpoint.

      But we agree, Gamergirl...on the point about liars. Even though I'm not. Not if I'd denied writing an eBook, THAT would be lying. But I know we're not all going to agree on this and it's disintegrating into another pissing match of course...
      tiff

  36. gamergirl profile image59
    gamergirlposted 9 years ago

    No peeing going on here, I don't think.

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Well I might need a Depends in a bit, but otherwise, all's good in the state of Texas. lol
      That cracked me up, Charlotte!

      Did you get my email, by the way? I don't trust email half the time.

  37. Whitney05 profile image83
    Whitney05posted 9 years ago

    I think that what is being referred to when mentioned that you lied was that you omitted the eBook until all the fighting started up. You weren't 100% honest when you started asking tons of questions, but came forth later.

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Right, and all this was hashed out in the last thread that was locked. I wasn't lying about it. I told people outright and when asked, explained...blah blah...and all that rot.

      I wasn't seeing it the way you guys did - that it was sneaky. To me, I was a Hub user who had questions for ME. Trust me, this eBook isn't something where I'm site scraping. I have to learn things for myself, test, tweak, see how they work, etc. Then when and if I'm confident the site is worth it, I write about it.

  38. Stacie Naczelnik profile image74
    Stacie Naczelnikposted 9 years ago

    Okay, so now we are at a fork in the road.

    High Road: Stop posting in this thread, or continue posting but make sure it is on the original topic (discussion of ghost writing hubs).

    Low Road: Bicker, bicker, bicker.

    How about we not get this thread locked too.

  39. Sally's Trove profile image83
    Sally's Troveposted 9 years ago

    I'm curious, Tiffany, from a communications viewpoint, how are you going to manage future HubPages changes in your upcoming eBook?  Will you provide timely and free updates to your customers who bought the eBook? And will you be creating new versions as a certain number of changes to HubPages occur?  If you finish your project here on HubPages in the next few months, what expectations will you set for your customers about the longevity of your accurate information?

    You see, I might like to buy the eBook, because, as I said in a comment to your apology hub, what you are proposing to do is something that is needed and you clearly have the talent to do it. So I might be a customer who wants to know how you plan to provide me with updates.  And perhaps I'll like your eBook so much, I'll want to give it to a friend who wants to get involved with HubPages, let's say two years from now. But I would only want to gift your eBook at that time if I know it is current.

    (These questions don't really belong to this thread, but I don't see the purpose of starting another thread dominated by this back and forth about your proposed eBook.)

    Finally, I have a suggestion for you. I think that you should gift every hubber who has contributed to your knowledge here in these forums and through your apology hub with a copy of your eBook when you publish it. In that you are the marketing person, I think you can see the short- and long-term value of such an addition to your marketing plan.  What do you think?

    1. profile image0
      TiffanyDowposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Sally!

      I will do what I do with my Squidoo eBook. Customers get free updates for life (my life, lol). I always update my eBook and if it's not enough time for a full update, then I send out emails to my list. Like for instance, Squidoo implemented a Twitter module, so I just sent out one giant email to explain it.

      So this way, the information stays current. If I let my eBook become outdated, then I'd have a hefty number of refunds smile Plus, my Squidoo customers, bless their hearts, email me ALL the time with questions. I answer every email myself and add it to the next version or blast out an update if it's something that needs to be shared.

      And I promise, I plan to do something very special for those who help me with learning this site. I can't count how many copies of my Squidoo eBook I've given away to people who helped me. I'm not gonna hand it out to anyone who just had a problem with me, for sure. But those who assisted me, of course I give back!

      Tiff wink

  40. Sally's Trove profile image83
    Sally's Troveposted 9 years ago

    Stacie, I just saw your comment.  And you are so right.  My questions don't belong here either.  But I just HAD to ask them.  smile

 
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