keyword question

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  1. saleheensblog profile image61
    saleheensblogposted 12 years ago

    I have found two different schools of experts in the internet who have two completely different thoughts on choosing keywords but both have got success in their own style.

    1. select high/extremely high traffic keywords. The need to do much back linking.
    2. select low traffic but more specific, easy to rank keywords. No back linking needed.


    1. a group of expert adds a lot of keywords like 1:30-60[words]
    2. adds only few keywords that are very much specific.

    Now, my questions are:

    a~ If I use 40 keywords where 25 are broad and highly competitive with a huge traffic and another 15 are very specific, low competitive with a low traffic, what will happen?

    b~ Is there a disadvantage of using many keywords? Like 30-40 keywords for a 2000-4000 word hub.

    c~ Do I need to use the long tail keywords directly in the hub? For example, if my keyword is " how to choose low competition but high traffic keyword", will I have to use it in the hub or the ideas of the hub is enough to support it?

    d~ Does a long title that contain multiple keywords have a disadvantage?

    e~ Does a long url has disadvantages?

    f~ What if I use 2 main keywords in url and 2 in title where one keyword is common in both? Like for title "Keyword research for making money online" and for url "seo-keyword-research-tips-for-more traffic-to-your-website". Will I get an advantage?

    g~ If we know keywords like "seo", "keyword", "google" "food", "life" I mean broad keywords have no chance to rank for without terrific back linking why do we add those? In hope of future when the hub will be aged for years and may be climb up to higher position?

    h~ If I add no root keyword and only concentrate on long tails will the ads shown be irrelevant?

    i~ Almost all long tail shows a CPC of 0.05 in adwords. Is it true?

    If you don't know all the answer but have clear ideas on any of those please, quote the question so that I can easily get you.

    1. profile image0
      shazwellynposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I dont think there is any real hard and fast rules.  Google's alorgrhythm is a closely guarded secret and many experts spend much of their time anaylising as an attempt to find out what works.  Not only this, the maths keep changing as Google adds more changes on a daily basis.  You are really chasing an unknown quantity here.

      Google automatically finds keywords, long tailed keywords within your articles, whether this is found in your title or not.  However, it is favourable to have your main keywords in the title.

      You can, potentially, drive yourself mad over this SEO thing.  Just optimize your hubs, write what you know and do your main keyword research for up to 40,000 global searches a month (via adwords tool).

      During your writing, just be conscious of your keyword and variants to this.  For example:  Keyword LOVE = loving, lovely, loveable, emotion, feeling, in love.

      The truth of the matter is that success is a lottery.  You need to use trial and error.  Find your niche - this is something that you need to discover over time - and write genuinely for your writers and not SEO.

      This is something that I have found, others may disagree or add further to help you.

  2. Susana S profile image93
    Susana Sposted 12 years ago

    That's a lot of questions!

    Personally, I find it works out best if I use the same phrase in the title and the url. I choose one main keyphrase, usually of 3-6 words which will be in both as is, but sometimes I will add additional words to the title to help draw extra traffic. Here's an example from one of my recent hubs:

    The url includes the phrase "books about dreams" which is my main keyphrase. (I decided to add the word "interpretation" in the url too because the url was short and a lot of searches will include the word interpretation).

    The title is Books About Dreams - Best Books on Dream Interpretation. Hopefully by extending the title I will rank for my main phrase, plus quite a few long tails as well.

    I also make sure I use my main phrase plus related phrases throughout the article, in the text, subheadings, image descriptions and tags.

    If your title is too long it will get cut off. I can't remember exactly how many characters google will show, but there is a limit - I think it's about 60.

    When you ask about keywords such as seo, life etc. do you mean tags? I use several broad tags and then lots of longer phrase tags - as many as the hub will allow. The more internal links you have the better in my experience.

    In general, I prefer to choose keyphrases with low competition and high traffic that are also ones which I know I can get on the first page for with very little backlinking, because I hate backlinking.

    When searching for phrases related to what I want to write about I have different criteria for the traffic potential for info and product articles. E.g. for my product hubs, monthly search data for the main phrase will usually be between 1000 - 20,000 in google's keyword tool.

    For info articles I will usually go for phrases with monthly search volumes of 30,000 - 80,000. Of course even at number one in the search results you can only expect around 50% of the traffic.

    There's obviously more than one way to skin a cat, but this is my approach.

  3. Pcunix profile image92
    Pcunixposted 12 years ago

    Even a blind pig can find an acorn now and then.

    I started with that because I do NOT worry about keywords.  I do no research.  I'm the "blind pig".

    I'm not suggesting you should follow my lead. However, I do want you to remember that blind pig and also consider a few other things:

    - You will be competing with people who may have far more expertise and far more expensive tools than you will have.  The very BEST you can hope for is to match their efforts and you probably will only do so by accident - see "blind pig" again.

    - LSI has already sucked some of the value out of this and will continue to suck more.  In a world of perfect LSI (probably years away, but you never know), keyword research will have no value at all. None. Zip. Nada. Fageddaboutit.

    - The tide comes in and the tide goes out. Word meanings change. New words are created. New phrases come into fashion. The battle will be never ending.

    - This stuff is time consuming, especially when you consider my first point of you being in competition with people who are really good at it.  Will the gains you might attain be worth the effort you put in?  Could you be doing better things with your time?

    - Keyword insertion sometimes requires compromise. Your carefully crafted paragraphs or titles  may not mind the intrusion of the phrase your research demands, but then again things may end up feeling clumsy.  That may not bother you, but it bothers me a LOT.  Given a choice between something that reads as I want it to and something that does not but might make me a few extra bucks, I'll skip the extra bucks.

    But, other than that, go for it.

    1. daybreak profile image76
      daybreakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The blind pig method requires much more intuition but it can be very effective at times. This technique works best if you have a friends with interests that you can consult for ideas. This helps you learn about what people are interested in.

      My best performing hub at the moment is about How To Clean and Cook Wild Ducks and Geese. I had no game plan, I just got up one cold Autumn morning and wrote. It turns out that a lot of people are interested in the subject.

      Keyword research can still be useful, even if we write using the blind pig method. By looking at Analytics data, we can get valuable insight into what people are searching for and how they form their search strings. This information can be valuable when writing new content. It can also useful for those of us that edit and refine existing hubs.

      In my business plan, I rely heavily on this process of write-check stats-edit-repeat. Over time this can be very effective.

    2. lrohner profile image68
      lrohnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Big surprise, but I disagree -- unless, of course, you're mixing keyword research in with on-page optimization and I'm just not understanding properly. smile

      IMHO, keyword research will continue to have as much or as little value as picking keywords out of your butt. If you choose to write about "green squirrels from broken homes with speech impediments," that topic will rise and fall in popularity over time whether you chose it by luck or through keyword research. But you will benefit today by having done the research.

      Let's say you wanted to write about salad. You might choose to write something titled "how to make a salad." You find out through keyword research, however, that very few folks are searching for "how to make a salad," but tons are searching for "quick and easy salads," so you use that keyword and off you go. Since keyword density is meaningless in this day and age, you write a decent article ensuring that you put that keyword somewhere in the first paragraph (where it should have fallen naturally anyway). Related keywords will just fall into the piece by osmosis as you write. So tell me -- just why will that all be meaningless in the future? I don't understand why that article will have less value than if I had not done keyword research and simply wrote about "how to make a salad."

  4. tritrain profile image69
    tritrainposted 12 years ago

    It really just depends on how competitive YOU can be with those keywords.

    Can you compete against others well enough for those high traffic keywords?

    If so, go with those.

    If not, go with the lower traffic niches.

    1. tvpuram profile image60
      tvpuramposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      As a beginner I chose a URL with no keyword at all. I don't know whether I committed a mistake there.   At that time I was not conversant with the idea of keywords.  I was only learning.  Whether I succeed or not I do not intent to change it.  Let us see what happens.

      1. saleheensblog profile image61
        saleheensblogposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        you have done it wrong for sure and you can't change your keywords after being created once.

  5. Leelin profile image60
    Leelinposted 12 years ago

    I think the best approach is to experiment, and find out what works best.

    I mean you can sit around and wonder, but as has been stated already there really are no hard and fast rules here. Google is very good at keeping it's alorgrhythm under wraps and it is constantly changing anyway.

    Sometimes I say the heck with Google and try to get traffic from the others (Yahoo, Bing, etc.)

    I think it's really a numbers game anyway, in other words,  go after keywords that you can rank for and write a ton of the highest quality hubs you can, monetized with offers that will sell (if making money is one of your goals;o)

    I also believe that if you really enjoy writing you will have a leg up on most of your competition.

  6. saleheensblog profile image61
    saleheensblogposted 12 years ago

    @shaz thanks for your time.:)As far I know Google algorithm has 300 components!! mad So, as you said the total seo thing depends on luck and I just want to make the luck come to my way by keeping the basics right and according to you I am going in right direction wink

    @Susana I understand what you said and I have already started to apply those. It's a great relief to get conformation from an experienced hubber like you. Thanks for your time. smile

    @Pcunix you are right. With the changing trends of internet marketing the seo thing is becoming more complicated and it's hard to find a balance between the efforts put on and results come out. Better I keep writing and try to improve my English so that I can write more quality hubs keeping the basics right and satisfaction will come with the process. Thanks for your kind reply. smile

    @Leelin I am experimenting things and it's fun though sometimes frustrating. Thanks for your participation. smile

    I have read almost all the hubs on SEO. And I think I am going in right direction. I am currently planning to write a set of hub on a same topic and will experiment those with different set of seo strategies. I think I will learn a lot of new things after that. Thanks to everyone for your kind information and those invaluable hubs that has help me to learn the initials of SEO. smile

  7. Susana S profile image93
    Susana Sposted 12 years ago

    Just to let you know saleheen - SEO type articles are very hard to rank for!

    1. saleheensblog profile image61
      saleheensblogposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      yah,I know, but I think if the hub is of a very big length and covers many areas there is still chance to rank for some low competition keywords. Recently I wrote a big hub on keyword research for experiment(poorly written as my English is too bad) and I saw that after a month it has started to get regular and decent traffic and currently ranks for a couple of low competition keywords. I hope it will climb up to first 3-5 pages in Google for 3-4 more keywords soon. I have seen another thing that if a hub is written in FAQ format that works better and gets traffic for the exact questions. I don't know if I am right but so far my experience is good.I will do more experiments and I have a plan to apply some new techniques for keywords to see what happens. But I have to agree that it's hard to rank for any keyword for any SEO type article as most of the top pages are run by SEO companies or experts who has better material and enterprise to reach the position where they want to. Again there is always a competition gap in every competition. Now my target is to research the competition gap in different ways. I don't have adsense yet and right now I am not after money so it gives me space to do all these fancy things.

      1. David 470 profile image84
        David 470posted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Wow, that was a long post. I am no expert, but in my experience since I began in June 2010, was that high competeive keywords are VERY hard to get traffic in. I think mainly because so many other people have already established these keywords all over the internet, and they are very popular websites and/or articles...

        ---If I were you, I would try and write on low competitive keywords that are high in traffic. These may not pay well per click, but at least its something to get decent traffic on easier.

        b~ I think the more keywords you use can benefit you, BUT only if you can attain organic traffic. However, theirs a possibly that months later or perhaps years they may pick up.

        1. saleheensblog profile image61
          saleheensblogposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          points taken but you know I am in a mood of experiment now tongue

          1. David 470 profile image84
            David 470posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Nothing wrong with experimenting.

            1. saleheensblog profile image61
              saleheensblogposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              smile tongue big_smile

          2. profile image0
            TopUniverseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Experiment is the key to success. I wish you will succeed for the efforts you put in.

  8. Susana S profile image93
    Susana Sposted 12 years ago

    @saleheen - the question/answer approach sounds like it could be fruitful. Best of luck and let us know if it works out!

    1. saleheensblog profile image61
      saleheensblogposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      sure smile

      1. Leelin profile image60
        Leelinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I can see success in your future saleheensblog, I think you have the right kind of attitude. Good Luck!!


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