I have been coming across a lot of hate speech on HubPages, both in Hubs and in the forums. Stuff that I would not even dare repeat.
While it is good to know who the bigots are on HubPages, we need to flag them immediately. Yes, it is not going to change their views, but that's not the point. The point is to:
a) Send a message that hate speech is not an acceptable part of any civilized discourse, no matter what the venue; and
b) To keep HubPages a positive, supportive community where all types of people are welcome and not subjected to hate and intimidation.
Roti, I agree the hate speech needs to end. It is directed towards a particular group that I have noticed over the years.
It really discourages me that it is allowed here and I hope that people just stop.
Hate speech on HubPages? Yes, there happens to be some, but as with all other avenues of writing, you are going to have people who feel they are justified in writing their feelings.
However, I agree that certain things should be flagged, but only when viewed from an objective point of view, which is the only time when bias is not involved from oneself.
The message "hate" is subjective to one's dislikes or disapproval.
Flagging things according to HubPages TOS is the only option a member has here and it is not open to your individual view.
Flagging things, just because you disagree isn't an option. The "Hate" message must be clear, before HubPages finds it in violations of it's Terms of Service.
I agree that you should define "hate speech" for us.
There is no reason one can't offer, in writing or verbally, what one feels about any subject.
Sensitivity levels are as varied as there are people.
You get pissed off (it seems to me) if I use the word "damn."
There are many words which you might consider to be "expletive," but are used by speakers of English everyday to add "impetus" to a comment.
I have my idea of a defintion of "hate speech" that may differ greatly from yours.
Pls be specific. TY
What you see as hate speech, is really, freedom of speech.
When we create a hub/thread, it tells us what we can and can't post.
You will only waste the hub staff's time by flagging hubs/threads.
And remember, it's your opinion
Not all speech is free from consequences, and that includes hate speech. And hate speech is not something you can post as per HubPages; that's why we have a category to flag.
From reading what you've been saying here it sounds as though you're going to be doing an awful lot of flagging. Which I'm sure will delight HP's staff no end
You might want to read this
http://hubpages.com/hub/What-not-to-wri … n-HubPages
The rules on the forums says no personal attacks. It does not say we can not express our dislike of anything, as long as we don't attack you personally, ie. saying someone is stupid, ugly, no good, or curse at them. Attacking/disagreeing with sects/beliefs etc is not personal attack
Funny how you don't see that you are using hate speech in your dislike of those who disagree with you.
LOL. Where's the hate? Point to the hateful speech please.
Well, read all the threads. The same people yelling hate speech, is yelling hate against laws, people, ways of life, they don't agree with.
So you are talking about other threads then - that may be, so I take back my LOL. I thought you were talking about the words in this thread.
I guess the point in this thread is to discuss what hate speech is and isn't, and how to deal with it on Hubpages.
If you have specific examples that you are thinking of maybe you could post them here and we could discuss as a group.
Flag them if they are in violation of the TOS. HP is not "the press" and as such are not required to provide a forum for free speech. They will censor anyone who does not comply with the TOS that every hubber agrees to when they open their accounts.
Could you be more specific in your definition of "hate speech" please?
Maybe I am not seeing the same campaign directed at the same group of people (?). Then again, maybe I am, but have become inured to it....
I agree. The Original Post is too vague to be a basis for serious discussion. Besides, accusing opponents of "hate speech" is an old political trick.
I don't have any "opponents," or cause or agenda. I am making a general point about hateful comments directed at any person, group, religion, nationality etc. Rather than getting into a discussion about my definition of hate speech, I trust that most people know hateful commentary when they see it.
That can depend on sensitivity levels. Which is why I said, IF they are in violation of the TOS, report it.
As others have asked, you could direct us to the specific comments and perhaps we could be more helpful.
I don't want to single out any person(s) or comment(s). As an example, there have been several threads in the past few days alone that have contained highly offensive comments directed at Islam and Muslims, comments that would be considered hate speech by any reasonable measure. There are Hubs and comments about the President and his family that are vile. I'll stop there.
Maybe these things don't offend some people... like I said, I'll let people use their judgment, but definitely something to be aware of.
I never meant to suggest that you do. However, I have no doubt that there are those who would like to use a thread as this one to support their own agenda.
Have you noticed some of the threads aimed at Muslims?
I've noticed these, and was really disturbed. I've also noticed some nasty stuff about gays and lesbians. I do flag stuff, but never flagged these, just rated them down if they were hubs. Didn't know flagging was an option for this stuff.
I think I need to revisit the Terms of Service...though I think I read it when signing up, I really can't say what they are anymore after my brain has been crammed full of adsense, keywords, page views, affiliate settings etc. etc. the last few months.
I'm really glad this issue came up, it had been bothering me.
If you have reported what you consider hate speech, has it been removed by moderators? I think you could tell us this without compromising anyone's privacy. It would give us an idea about (i) whether it was indeed hate speech; (ii) whether or not HubPages is serious about fighting it.
I haven't gone back and checked everything I've flagged so I'm not sure if it's removed or not. One thread I found particularly offensive (and flagged yesterday), the offending comments have not yet been removed, but the thread was locked (no more replies). So I'm not sure what that means from HubPages' point of view. Obviously they listened, but instead of deleting the specific comments, they shut down the thread.
OK, if you could come back and tell us how it goes with the other things you have flagged, that would enrich this discussion quite a bit. Yes, moderators often close a thread. They may delete a single post, but if there are several controversial posts, they often close the thread instead. Then it will soon be forgotten as it drops towards the bottom of the index.
Ok, then I guess it was worth flagging, and seen as hate speech by the moderators.
Hi rotl, sounds like the thread I started recently 2 weeks ago. I tried to post again. To my surprise , the thread was shut down, and I was starting to recieve some beauttiful, refreshing, loving and peaceful replies. I restarted a brand new thread with this same topic. Hopefully, it will survive without any hateful attacks.
Woman of Courage, the thread I flagged was started yesterday and shut down yesterday, so yours is another example of HubPages taking action against this stuff, so that's encouraging.
I'm glad you started another thread.
I am happy hubpages are taking action against this, but I rather the thread to continue, and the offender spreading hate speeches to be banned. After all, the goal of the offender was to stop the thread from going forth. If a person is breaking the terms of violations rules of hubpages, they should be punished for misbehaving, and they can not blame no one but themselves. Thank you rotl.
links to offending hubs would be an asset too.
Hate Speech: a term for speech that attacks or disparages a person or group of people based on their social or ethnic group.
e.g. [social/ethnic group] people are [really bad thing]
Very clever ploy, ralwus. Can't self-promote your own hubs here, but you can get rotl to point everyone to them!!
I don't see a lot of "hated speech" here. May be some heated confrontations,different opinions, strong language sometimes, but that is forum, that's what makes it interesting. We all can be over polite, but who needs that? Do we have to be all alike?
There is a big difference between a heated discussion and hate speech, and I trust most people know which is which.
No, I disagree.
People in their ideals are generally not very reasonable. Even if their point is reasonable, their application of it may be misplaced.
Why do you think the KKK is still allowed to have rallies, and that repulsive pedophile group is still allowed to exist?
Hate speech is based on personal opinions. If my personal opinion is that you are going to hell for being a gay rejector of goodness, then that's not hatespeech, per se, it's me telling you in all love and good intention that you must repent!
But to my personal sensibilities -which in fact are neither gay or christian- it's hatespeech.
If I say all religious people are stupid and ruining the world, and back it up with what is elsewise a well-reasoned argument, it's not hatespeech, it's me trying to elucidate the masses and save the species! LOL
But to a religious person it's hatespeech.
The legal definition is to incite violence.
As long as it doesn't incite violence, it isn't legally hate speech, and HubPages would be getting themselves in for a mutinous quagmire if they tried to go beyond that.
It's called hatespeech, but in fact it's okay to incite hate. Politicians and their pundits do it all the time. It's just not okay to incite violence, legally speaking.
That too isn't always easy to define. I can say should be eliminated without actually meaning should be killed.
It's all a slippery slope.
You are spared by the powers that be.
I just wrote one of my long but hasty and effectively rambly posts in response to this thread, hit the button and was informed that HubPages was momentarily down for maintenance.
All is lost, you are spared, praised be the gods.
My conclusion was that A) hate speech is tough to fairly define and apply, and B) it is always a product of extremes.
I will add that C) I have been guilty of it, and D) now think it's counter-productive.
Oh yeah and E) you're all nuts anyway, and I say that in love.
Contact HubPages Staff via email and they might be able to recover your entire hub.
It seems to be very popular on these forums to label a person as belonging to a certain group. Then the attacks on the group begins, and the offender thinks it is not a personal attack because they are attacking the entire group.
Including the hubber, which in my opinion equates to a personal attack.
If I attack myself, is that still considered hate speech? Should I flag myself? Better yet, I could flog myself as well - but that would also be hateful.. Man, I'm so cornfused.. I guess that's still better than being cornflaked though, right? Carp, I'm an idiot. -wait, more hate speech! I Better stop while I'm behind!
A'ight, seriously.. People all getting up in other people's Kool-Aid is a fact of life, especially online. Flag it if it really, really needs to be flagged, but most of the time, it's simply better off to ignore the idiots. We've all said things that we shouldn't from time to time..
Hello to all nuts!
I love nuts!
I reported the thread "why are almost all terrorists muslim".
The thread started out with a false premise (almost all terrorists are muslim) and then went on to explain the premise with a distorted description of Islam, blaming all the political violence in the world on the words of the Koran, even implying that Islam is a devilish religion.
That is stupid, and hate speech.
If you're having trouble seeing this, imagine instead a thread entitled: "why are most violent criminals black?" which then went on to explain that most violent criminals are black because of something in African American culture or genetics. That would be pure racism.
Well, there are others who don't come from the place you do.
Are you trying to take away people's rights? Yes
Where I come from, that is wrong
It is a term in general use and I posted a defintion for y'all. Basically, don't dis entire demographic groups of people in a spiteful way. It's not that complicated.
Again, vile is dependant upon who is doing the reading.
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."
"Sticks and stones may break my bones but names (words) will never hurt me"
Man is not a civilized animal.Don't expect civility from it.
I consider that hate speech.
"As Christians we must ask ourselves, why would atheist and agnostics post a thread in a Christian forum. There are a couple of obvious reasons. Number one is that they are serving satan and they are trying to disrupt the harmony among the Christians here by distracting them from their real purpose, which is serving God and fullfiling the great commission. Number two is that they are in it for the money and they know every lost soul will rally behind them. Either way they are starting threads and we are supporting them. "get behind me satan""
I flagged it as hate speech yesterday but the thread is still open.
I don't feel as annoyed by this thread Sandra, for a couple of reasons.
For one, it's just so ludicrous. It is demonizing an entire group of people, yes, but its entire premise is ridiculous.
For another, atheists and agnostics are not (in my opinion) in any real danger from Christian wingnuts. There might be a random danger from another Scott Roeder lone nut here or there, but there is no institutionalized danger or oppression to atheists and agnostics.
The thread you point to might qualify as hate speech, but it's much less of a problem (to me) than a Christian attacking all Muslims (since Muslims and Christians are actively killing each other throughout the middle east).
Good points William, but it is certainly objectionable on many levels. It is trying to incite... and that is disturbing enough.
We won't all be offended the same way by things, but as long as it truly hurts or offends someone, then it should be addressed. I think we are all better for it in the end.
William, you're doing a great job around here.
Another reason "non believers" post in religious forums is that some of them have been believers at a moment in their lives.
I've posted often to religious forums some time ago, but I tired off.
I realized most of the content of religious forums could come out of a 10 year old child's mind.
So I've never been tempted to assimilate it to "hate speech" worth to be flagged.
Not more than some relatively frequent forms of real primary fascist speech I've had the opportunity to read in HP when it comes among other topics, to politics.
Not all people who disagree with the religious threads are non believers.
I'm a licensed minister, and I disagree with a lot of things.
I think a lot of things people believe is ridiculous. That's my right. It's not hate speech.
I'm sorry. I'm somewhat a foreigner. What does it relate to ?
In my understanding, a minister is someone who serves.
What is it you serve ?
I sure agree that tolerance is one of the best democracy achievements.
But we all play with different rules.
Far out man !
My dear sister Debbie...
If you are referring to me, my names not Debbie, it's Deborah.
Don't be direspectful.
You don't know what a minister is?
I do serve others, more than you will ever know. Judging me are you?
Sorry Deborah. Never meant to disrispect.
I can but approve all who work fo ecumenicalism.
And minister means "servant".
You admit that I call you Sister, don't you ?
Can you celebrate Eucharistie too ?
Minister means many things not just one.
Let me see, how do I serve
1. I'm a Nurse
2. I teach/minister
3. I volunteer at the abused/rescued animal clinic
4. I am a family oriented wife and mother
5. I do hands on healing
The only one I get paid for is the Nurse part
What do you do?
And how do you know me enough to judge?
And I am not Christian
I am not judging you or whoever.
I'm just reacting to your posts.
And I think that the mere quality of mother you have gives you more authority than a thousand ordainances.
I was just amazed about the idea of a woman being an ordained minister. (I'm a bit old)
I'd never find that all by myself. I thank you for the revelation.
You say you're not a Christian...
What's the point ?
I converted when I married my Jewish husband. We spent some time in Savion Israel (where my husband was born). We both graduated from a Rabbinical school with a certificate of semichah. We are Jewish Mystics and not Christians, nor are we considered Judaic
What's my point about not being a Christian?
Because you said "I can but approve all who work fo ecumenicalism."
Which by the way is expressed either ecumenism or ecumenical.
(sorry, I'm a teacher by heart)
Or is your question "why a minister, if not a Christian?
I don't believe in the Christian doctrine.
Are you being snide and saying I am licensed online.
I went to school and was ordained and licensed.
And you guys don't show hate?
Yes... I was being a little snide, I'll admit it.
I think a person should be judged by their actions and not by vague titles.
From what you have written here it sounds like your day to day actions speak well of your character, much more than any license to be a minister of anything.
Deborah, my dear sister.
I kiss you good night, as I'm going to hit my bunk now.
Hugs to the kids.
My regards to your lucky husband.
My wishes of prompt recovery to your patients.
Good night folks.
I am very proud of all my titles, I worked very hard for them.
They are not vague to me.
Don't take this as hate speech but does that mean you are only allowed to minister in your state?
If not, what boundaries are set? I have read many of your post, I disagree with most, is that hateful?
On a public forum everyone gets to say what they want, you called this freedom of speech however you are often angered (at least is seems that way) by many people who disagree with you regarding, well... religion. I think you view it as hate.
I have not personally seen you open a thread where you were just plain hating, so I give you that but you do often argue with different beliefs.
My real question to you is, is it healthy for someone who hold certain beliefs as the most sacred and personal to trivialize their most sincere thoughts and feelings on an open forum that ultimately causes "strife" in yourself?
I mean, what is it that has you so devoted to "setting everyone straight" when clearly the only vibe being generated across internet lines is well... negative?
I think you are wrong most of the time, you think I am wrong all the time. I don't like your personal views on religion and what is right for people but I do appreciate that you are a nurse.
So what is wrong with what I said?
I was ordained in two countries.
My state licensed me because it's where I live.
It is good any place
You have never seen me angry over people disagreeing with me.
You have seen me put people in their place once they personally attacked me instead of my beliefs.
I have had people say all kinds of nasty stuff to me, yet I still talk to them.
It is wrong to get angry without a cause.
I've seen you get angry even when it wasn't a personal attack.
Anyone can challenge my beliefs and I don't mind. I know what I know and stand behind it. If you or someone disagrees, that doesn't take my knowledge from me.
What you perceive as anger, is a woman who stands up for herself.
I do that for friends and family too. If anyone is under personal attack and they don't say something..well..
Don't tell me, that you wouldn't defend yourself.
Debating beliefs is not arguing.
I don't agree with what I don't believe. Neither does anyone here.
See now you have made several assumptions about me. One, you said I get angry over attacks that you don't find personal. Obviously you wouldn't because they weren't made towards you. I actually do find it personal when people attack my family, to me it is out of line but you still perceive my "standing up for myself" as angry.
It's one of the reasons I dislike your sentiments so much. You think that you have been ordained to "put people in their place". What place is that? Behind you? Below you? What?
And your debate style is arguing in my opinion.
And now you feel free to attack me because I said I have seen you get angry over something that wasn't a personal attack.
Why do you feel attacking me is OK?
I read the words someone said to you once and it wasn't, by definition "a personal attack". I didn't say you didn't feel it was.
Being ordained doesn't mean my skin is thick and I don't have feelings.
As a human, I feel I am allowed to put someone in their place when they attack me, although I am not ordained to. Wherever their place is, below, beside, above me. wherever.
You have such strong dislike for me. That's OK though, right? Somehow you are justified, although I have never done anything against you. How are you justified?
As a matter of fact, once someone said you wrote a hub that was racist, it wasn't and I defended you.
And what part of what I said do you consider an attack? I didn't attack you, I asked you a question. I said I dislike most of your sentiments because this is always the result.
"You think that you have been ordained to "put people in their place". What place is that? Behind you? Below you? What?
And your debate style is arguing in my opinion. "
So quoting you and then asking you a question is augmentative and you call that a "personal attack"?
Still, I am wondering, what "place" is that? Put people in what place?
Come on Sandra, I'm ordained to put people in their place? That's not a personal attack, snide and mean?
Now show me where I said I'm ordained to put people in their place.
As I said Their place, wherever it is.
Now if you are wanting to fight let me know.
If someone claims to be of God, shouldn't they follow these directions?
11. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you
43. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45. That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven
Some only rejoice in flattery
all religious forums are full of hate speech.HP need to totally stop religious discussion .
Sorry, but the constitution gives us freedom of speech
if it violates TOS, flag it.
I've seen very little hate speech here, although it does and has happened in the past. I generally don't waste my time reading the crazed stuff online.
hate speech is nothing but ego. don't feed it.
Hi Misha! Looks like some glasses vendor convinced you to become a client. Hehehe.
I've serched on Google for RSIU and I came upon :
Radar Search Interface Unit
Regional School Improvement Unit
Can you clarify, if you got enough patience left?
Oh, that's my own stupidity of sitting too far from the screen, glass vendors just came to rescue
And the guy or gal just meant Russia and seriously misspelled it
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by EncephaloiDead 9 years ago
We know that freedom of speech often allows hate speech and we know that more reasonable and rational speech combats hate speech. Should freedom of religion provide protection for religious hate speech in the same way?
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by Tony Lawrence 11 years ago
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by Stevennix2001 3 years ago
According to a new poll that was taken, it seems a lot of Americans want the first amendment to be changed, as some feel jail time and/or a possible fine should be given to anyone who does "hate speech", which isn't defined that easily.Here's a link to the site in question that shows...
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