Flagging Abuse

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56
Kevin Hemmingerposted 13 years ago
How is it that one person has the ability to go through all your hubs and with a few clicks, take them all down?

For instance: http://hubpages.com/hub/Marrying-a-Philippines-Girl

(I realize it is down at the moment, but go to google and type site:http://hubpages.com/hub/Marrying-a-Philippines-Girl and it will show you what the contents was).

It was flagged as overly-promotional. It promotes nothing, there isn't even an outgoing link on the page. 42 comments of people thanking me, yet someone flagging me can instantly remove it from hubpages.

Or how about this one: http://hubpages.com/hub/How-to-write-go … thor-Score

That's right ... a hub about helping other people raise their hub score. Again, flagged as "Overly promotional", yet it promoted nothing but to help people with their hubpages.

I've said screw it and deleted 13 of my hubs. I've got places for them to be where I'm not worried about them being yanked at the fancy of someone who wants to harass me.

I know exactly who did it, but I don't know who I should be more angry with -- them for doing it, or hubpages for allowing it to happen in the first place.

So I have two questions:

#1) How does hubpages discipline members who abuse the flagging button?

#2) How is it that hubpages thinks it can allow someone to remove 15 (presumably 100) hubs with a few clicks and think they're doing a service to their authors?
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1. 86
  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Flagging a hub CANNOT make it be unpublished. Only a STAFF MEMBER can unpublish a hub. So if you get 15 flags on a hub and a moderator thinks it's ok, then it will stay up.
  
  Hubpages has mentioned previously that people who flag things appropriately have a higher rating within the system for flagging - I assume the same goes for false flagging. However no member can make a hub be unpublished without review.
  
  As for the two hubs in question, I cannot see a reason for them being unpublished as overly promotional.
  
  http://hubpages.com/faq/#overly_promotional
  
  If the cache of those two pages is unaltered (you haven't added any extra links) then I really think this is rather ridiculous.
  
  When you click on the warning message, does it expand with further information?
  
  Currently new moderators are being trained so I'd recommend emailing the team directly and finding out why it was unpublished.
  
  I'd be interested to hear Jason or Simone's opinion on this one, actually.
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  Kevin Hemmingerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  WryLilt, see my response further down the page. It essentially boils down to someone who doesn't like my disagreement with them being a moderator and abusing their ability to unpublish hubs.
  
  To answer your question though ... I haven't edited or updated a hubpage (besides commenting) in probably over half a year, so the google cache is the correct copy.
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then I would definitely email the team about it. If a moderator is personally doing something like this then I think they should lose their job. If it's a mistake well, I think they need more training!
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  Kevin Hemmingerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That would have been the first line of action I would normally take, except "directly mailing the team" didn't seem like a very intuitive thing to do ... i.e. there's no way to do it that is obvious to me.
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just email team@ or use the contact form: http://hubpages.com/contact_us/
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  Susana Sposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I saw the hub you commented on as it's the hub of someone I follow. Just to let you know, that person isn't a moderator or staff member of hubpages - just a regular hubber.
  
  You might be pissed that your hub has been unpublished, and I would be too, especially as it doesn't seem to have broken any rules, but don't get paranoid!
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I should have checked that. If it's the guy from Scotland, yes he's just a normal member. And I very much doubt he'd stoop to flagging you. He's far too busy with non-Hubpages earning pursuits.
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  Kevin Hemmingerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  With all due respect WryLilt, this guy you're saying is too busy said this as his last comment to me ...
  
  "but as soon as it is reported HP staff they have the intelligence to remove it. I wonder, do you know that spun content is not allowed on HubPages?"
  
  So somehow that guy made the assumption that I was article spinning on HP, and said they remove it as it is reported.
  
  So after reading that, do you still think he had nothing to do with it?
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes.
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  Kevin Hemmingerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've been a member here an awfully long time. For all my hubs to disappear within an hour of posting on his hub is fishy enough not to rule out his involvement in my banning.
  
  Someone abused their powers at hubpages. They can either remedy it to my satisfaction or suffer bad press over it.
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Within an hour? Then you definitely can't blame that user!
  
  From what I've seen the flagged hubs queue can take hours to process - hubs can take 48 hours or longer to come to moderator attention.
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  Kevin Hemmingerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ok this is getting frustrating. Go out of your way to defend the guy, I don't care. Hubpages should have a record of who deleted it and why.
  
  However, I'd just like to say that my automatic assumption (based on evidence) that it is the guy in question is responsible for it may be no more founded than your absolute insistence that he had nothing to do with it.
  
  We're talking about moderator abuse here. For the sake of argument, lets just assume that a moderator that wants to abuse the system ... they have the option of speeding up their abuse on a case by case basis?
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you're questioning a moderator, yes they could be responsible for abusing the system. No, the member in question is not a moderator..
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  Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They can't.
  
  When a person flags a Hub, all it does is place it in the moderators' queue for review. It doesn't unpublish the Hub.
  
  When the moderators get to your Hub, they review it and decide whether it breaks any rules. They don't take the original flagger's opinion into account, they make their own decision.
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are speculating here - my experience is that hubs can be unpublished from malicious flagging. Whether this is because some 'old established' hubbers have the ability to do this or moderators are automatically unpublishing without looking to save time is immaterial - whatever the reason it does appear that hubs are unpublished form incorrect flagging pretty immediately.
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I gave you the link explaining that: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/68719#post1501537
  
  And remember, there are many new moderators currently in training. That's the reason so many mistakes are happening with moderation at the moment.
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You did give me the link - and I answered you.
  
  However, while I know you are trying to help and just trying to diffuse the criticism of the staff here - you do not know that is still the case unless you have information that we don't.
  
  I also do not accept that new moderators in training is a reasonable excuse for the havoc and poor quality moderation incidents - any office with sufficient staff and proper structure would be on top of this almost trivial aspect of business in a few days, maybe a week if they are all outworkers.
  
  Insufficient moderators and poor guidelines and rule book is far more likely. And if there were competent guidelines and rules then why are'nt they published so that we can 'moderate' our own hubs without being unpublished ??
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recommend1posted 13 years ago
This is an issue that should be addressed by 'the team', there do appear to be elements of abuse in this.

Hubs improperly flagged due to pure ignorance of the TOS

Hubs flagged maliciously

I have been critical of witch-hunters who seem to be very active but with little understanding of wht they are doing and commented about it in the threads where they ask for what seems to be very basic guidance AFTER the event.
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73
LeanManposted 13 years ago
The hubs are meant to have a "human" review before they are taken down.. I don't see any links within the body of your hub apart from to other hubs... so as you say how can it be over-promotional?? There is only one other link and that is in the comments and is to a well established and relevant site.

The flagging button should only make the moderators aware of the hub, they then have to make a decision, but the emails they send are generic in nature!

People can make mistakes in flagging and as you say maybe someone could also be malicious, but they can't take down a hub automatically!

I like your hubs, I commented months ago!!!!

HP needs to get their act together over this!!!!
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1. 56
  Kevin Hemmingerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LeanMean, I really hope what you're saying is true. If true -- then the person with malicious intent, who took down every single one of my hubs -- must be a moderator, right?
  
  I made a comment on this person's hub (about SEO) that he disagreed with. Fair warning -- if you disagree with this person, they take it personally enough to abuse their moderator powers to remove all your hubs, even ones of the quality I mentioned above.
  
  I hope that this abuse of his can cause enough of a stink to get his moderator powers removed. Lets find out.
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bgpappaposted 13 years ago
I am sorry that this has happened and believe there should be some mechanism to reverse this. If it is a malicious attempt to take down a writer for whatever reason, perhaps banning that person from the site is in order???

Hope HP fixes it soon
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A flag can't remove a hub. Only a staff member can unpublish a hub.
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am not aware of any 'pronouncement' of the team that this is true - can you point me to somewhere this is said ?
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have the time or energy to find an appropriate post. However it's been said repeatedly by the staff in the past that a flagged hub will NOT be taken down until viewed by a staff member.
  
  Some examples which pretty much say that:
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/72331#post1575534
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/68937#post1507306
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I took a quick run through and no - neither of these threads say this that I could find.
  
  I appreciate that you are trying to help but unless you have inside information about who the moderators are and whether they are hubbers, and whether 'some' hubbers flags automatically unpublish a hub then I remain unconvinced.
  
  I understood that in the past certain 'long standing' hubbers could moderate the forums, and this certainly appeared to be the case in some instances of totally biased and unearned bannings. If this is a normal tactic of HP then conferring that kind of right regarding flagging would be likely, if not probable, to deal with the many cases they claim they are snowed under with.
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I will try and find a link about it. However I am 100% positive that no hub or thread can be removed without a staff member viewing it. This is why, in the past, there have been calls for volunteer international hubbers to cover the times when staff moderators aren't online - spammers take advantage of that time and post links which can stay there for hours despite repeated flaggings.
  
  The member in question is not a staff member - I'm friends with him on facebook so know that for a fact.
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Update: is this black and white enough for you?
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/68719#post1501537
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ok - that'll do I don't necessarily believe it though
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That post is now missing, and my ugly mug is up in it's place!
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  To be fair to the cute and lovely, but occasionally high-handed, Maddie this is still there:
  
  "Please rest assured, a flag does not mean a Hub will automatically be taken down. All a flag does is bring the Hub to our attention, so that a moderator can review it and unpublish if necessary."
  
  but that was quite a while ago and may not be the case any more or was just incorrect, and as "Norah pointed out about Simone, she may not know what she is doing" and Jason about himself, "is unaware of all the changes" (paraphrasing)
  
  Kinda makes it hard for a simple hubber to work out what is going on when the staff admit they don't know themselves
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Maddie Ruud is the head moderator. I'm fairly sure that means she knows all the ins and outs of what happens in the Hubpages moderation program!
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As I pointed out above - the rest of the gang admit they don't - maybe they could have a quiet coffee somewhere and she could get around to teaching them all about the job they have been doing for the last however long.
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Simone and Jason aren't moderators.
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  Kevin Hemmingerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then I'm going to call the staff member out. All you got to do is look at my latest hub activity ... the very last hub I posted on (about article spinning).
  
  He said it wasn't effective. I said it was effective. He mistook my disagreement and labeled me a dirty article spinner. I don't spin articles -- I said it was effective only so that one can pull their head out of the sand and focus on the problem of getting google to stop it.
  
  I outlined a multi million dollar spinning operation -- for the purpose of outing it and drawing a spotlight to it so google can ban them all. But the guy who wrote the hub (obviously a moderator) mistook me as promoting article spinning (which if it sounds like that, its called SARCASM).
  
  So my sarcasm in trying to draw a spotlight on, and get a multi million dollar article spinning operation banned from google, had the effect of getting every one of my quality hubs deleted by a banhappy moderator. Go ahead and click on my profile, I'm sure everyone can figure out who it was by looking at my last posting activity.
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SunSevenposted 13 years ago
I think Wrylit should be a moderator for HP, if she already not is.

Most of the time when the real forum moderators like Maddie, are absent from the forums, she answers your doubts and questions, from the HP point of view. To be honest she does a better job than Maddie, Simone, and Norah combined.

I propose, HP absorb wrylit as VA.

Best Regards
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1. 56
  Kevin Hemmingerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  For everyone's information, the hubs I decided to let stay here have all been reinstated.
  
  Except for my horrible, rotten, no good lousy hub on how to raise your hub score and article score. I'm sure the moderator in question received a double dose of satisfaction when they banned that sorry excuse for a hub. Everyone run to Google now and grab it from the cache while its still there, this is your last chance!
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  86
  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Based on the fact that the hub has only one external (non hubber) comment, I'll go with the assumption that it's not a money making hub - so I doubt anyone would be in a rush to scrape or steal it. Yes it sucks when you have a hub unpublished but sometimes there are good reasons.
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I had a look at the two hubs in question, and while the first one is fine, the second contains a link to two other articles which may or may not be against TOS, being sexual in nature. It could just be removing those links will get that hub republished?
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ah good catch Izzy. I didn't check where they went just that there weren't more than two to one external domain.
  
  One of the links is unpublished too...
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then surely the "elite hubber" who has the "vibrator instead of sex with your husband" hub which apparently is featured in the 'hot list' will be against the TOS ?????????
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely have to agree. Those hubs were acceptable when they were published, but rules have changed.
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  SunSevenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then why are they sill UP?
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  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Because the moderators haven't got round to them yet, I imagine. Got to sort those pixelated images out first!!
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SunSevenposted 13 years ago
The one mistake we all do is that we consider HP as our own site, and then get sentimental about it when they have had to adapt to changes to appease google, and then please us, the users.

Those who realized this, left.

We, the sentimental fools , remain.

They got a business to run.

You are not running, because you dont have a business to run.

So, run along, and all the best.

WR
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1. 83
  IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If I had loads of hubs unpublished like the top hubbers did, I might have left, but I haven't, so I'm staying. But I have a growing portfolio online now which I didn't have before.
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If the invitation to run was for me - then I do have a business to run - and I am waiting to see what happens here before I put any more articles on this site.
  
  BTW Are you related to the author of the vibrator hub, she looks a lot like you ?
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Most of the "hot female Indian lady" profile pictures are actually men who admire those Indian female actors.
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  the vibrator hub is the property of a hubber honoured by hubpages - who claims to be an Indian woman who looks just like Sunseven
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm fairly certain that SunSeven is a man. And if you search the site you'll find many Indian hubbers featuring that same Indian actress.
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Is the unlikely second language writing fake as well
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you enjoy picking everything to pieces? I've tried my best to help you by digging up old threads and answering questions. Some things you just need to take at face value, mate.
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I do enjoy picking pieces to find fakes, trolls, extremists, and just plain stupid who try to put up mindless political arguments.
  
  In this regard the issue of hubpage mis-flagging is of particular interest as I believe that I have had two hubs 'maliciously' flagged and unpublished for around two weeks each - out of only 4.
  
  And once I was banned for doing exactly what you are doing - hijacking a thread ! and I suspect that was also a biased 'hubber' with moderating rights.
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't see how I'm hijacking a thread. And I don't have any sort of moderation rights.
  
  Bed time in Australia. 'Night!
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  Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Recommend1,as you know, I've been as vocal as anyone about the current situation at Hubpages - but there are enough problems without having to imagine conspiracy theories.
  
  There are no Hubbers with moderating rights. Period. There are plenty of other explanations for why Hubs are unpublished.
  
  Hubs are being unpublished by mistake. I know, because it happened to me, and to two other Hubbers of my acquaintance. Moderators are only human so it's inevitable it's going to happen - and probably far too often, given that they're working unreasonable hours.
  
  So your Hub which was "maliciously" taken down for no apparent reason, may just be the result of a mistake.
  
  Or maybe you didn't understand the rules. Many of the most indignant threads on these forums are by people who published a Hub which was always "illegal", but because HP was slack about enforcing their rules, it was never noticed. So the Hubber was left in blissful ignorance, and got a rude shock when HP finally started applying the rules properly. Could that apply to you?
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No it didn't apply to me, and I am not floating any conspiracy theory. My hub was unpublished for nearly two weeks for no valid reason - I can only think that the hub was flagged and put down without anyone looking at it.
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  Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So was mine. Eventually I got a response that it was a mistake by a moderator, and the Hub was restored.
  
  They had misclassified a link to a legitimate website as affiliate.
  
  Since there was no way the two could have been confused, I assume it was merely someone pressing the wrong button. They have a lot of new moderators who are learning on the job, so it's probably inevitable.
  
  I remember when the new moderators were first hired, two good Hubbers had their entire accounts unpublished by mistake.
  
  This is why it concerns me that there isn't a way of escalating a query when your Hub gets unpublished for no apparent reason - if there's a high incidence of errors, then those affected shouldn't have to wait two or three weeks for a response from the team.
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  Jason Menayanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It was indeed moderated by a person, a relatively new moderator who mistook some awkward phrasing to be article spinning. It was then republished by a more senior moderator.
  
  Flagging can not unpublish a Hub.
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks Jason.
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for such a direct and complete answer.
  
  I am not sure whether to be insulted by the 'awkward phrasing' - but you are entitled to a dig anyway after the hard time I have given you
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  Jason Menayanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wasn't meant to be an insult. I don't know how else to put it!
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  recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Jason - I was joking with you as I noted with the
  
  I appreciate a good insult anyway, it spices up my daily grind of admonishing staff and (apparently) conjuring up conspiracy theories
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  SunSevenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I never claimed that the profile pic is me.
  
  Lets leave the gender alone for the moment. How you are going to prove you are a man wrylit?
  
  Neither can you!
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not a man. But I can show you the stretch marks from my last pregnancy to prove I'm a woman!
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  SunSevenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That wont be necessary, But I must tell you to not go out doing this often, online or offline. Ask mother . ( I mean showing off your stretch marks)
  
  Anyway, you must've received a PM by now.
  
  I hope it clarifies things, a little bit for you (at least).
  
  Warm Regards
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  SunSevenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I saw a real panda a week back, I am sure you are not relatives!
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL!
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  SunSevenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Can I LOL too, please?
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  WryLiltposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sure. Share my LoLs!
  reply report

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