I Guess I Just Don't Get It?

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  1. Jason Marovich profile image88
    Jason Marovichposted 12 years ago

    175 google views and $5.26 in nearly six months sad

    I rarely use social sites, though I did use Reddit when I first started out here.

    Is this normal for my amount of hubs over such a long period of time.  If I were to write a bunch more, and still not do the social networking thing to try and get backlinks, will Google ever notice my account?

    Note:  This account is linked to my dungeonraider account which is far more commercial.  Could this be affecting this subdomain (my dungeonraider acct gets anemic traffic, too)?.

    1. psycheskinner profile image83
      psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      If your CPM is around 5-7 dollars, yes, this is normal.  Content is a volume market.  Write more hubs.

    2. Marisa Wright profile image87
      Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That depends.  What are you going to write about?  I think your problem isn't that Google hasn't noticed your sub-domain, it just that no one is searching for your topics. 

      That's the thing with online writing.  When you get an idea for an article, stop and ask yourself, "Will anyone be actively searching for this on Google?"  If you can't think of an answer, it's virtually pointless to write the article:  even if Google "notices" it, if no one ever searches for it, no one will ever see it.  Result: no clicks.

      Also remember Google can't judge context, only words.  So it often misinterprets what opinion, humour, sarcasm etc are about. You have a Hub about labels in America, for instance.  If Google thinks that Hub is about labels, it will present it to people searching for labels, instead of presenting it to people researching religious divisions.

      Google doesn't dislike commercial accounts so I don't see why it would.

      1. Jason Marovich profile image88
        Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I did get a few editors that wouldn't allow my style of D&D article.  They said it was too commercial and I told them I don't own D&D, and it ended with them telling me they don't fit their model of article.  Those few rejections caused me to consider that they might have a valid reason for doing so.  And yes, they were both online platforms like HP.

  2. profile image0
    Website Examinerposted 12 years ago

    Google may not like the reciprocal links between your two accounts.

    1. Jason Marovich profile image88
      Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I really wanted to keep the two accounts tied together for author verification purposes.  Then again, if Google has decided both accounts are commercial by association, then I may as well start over.

      1. Pcunix profile image92
        Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I wold disagree that Google dislikes these.  The whole purpose of authorship is to identify your content wherever it is.

        1. Jason Marovich profile image88
          Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          What would you do?  I get about 10-20 organic hits per day, per account.  It's been nearly six months.  Do you think it takes more content and more time?  Or would you drastically alter course and go after smaller topics?

          1. Pcunix profile image92
            Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            What would I do?  I'd  write more.

            But focusing on topics is perfectly valid too.  There's no one answer.

            Whatever you do, it's about traffic and how you get it.  You can wait for it or you can join the millions of would be Google SERP manipulators.

            I like to write.  Other people like to play games.  Some like to do both. 

            What do you want to do?  Decide that and do it.

            1. Jason Marovich profile image88
              Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              I like to write about...what I like to write about.  I won't play games to write articles about them, no.  I'm sour over the whole thing, probably like a lot of people at this stage of being on HP.  I'll have to give it some thought and then dive in.  I'm killing the dungeonraider thing for now.

              But, I read the comments and forums a ton on this site, and I trust what you're saying, so I'll sharpen my pencil here soon. wink  Thanks.

              1. Pcunix profile image92
                Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                If you like to write, what is there to be sour about?

                1. Jason Marovich profile image88
                  Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm a results oriented person, that's where the disappointment comes from.  I love to write, but I guess I just expected more interest.  I'm aware it takes time to build a subdomain, but zero growth factor is a bad sign in my book.  I don't believe that Google just turns the juice on at a certain point, contrary to some opinions.  I should say I find it hard to believe.

                  1. Pcunix profile image92
                    Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Well, let's accurate:

                    Google doesn't create juice.   Google recognizes juice and reacts to it.   

                    There is a whole science devoted to figuring out what subjects people want to read and what specific words will attract them to read a specific page.  That's "Keyword Analysis".  Some find it very exciting.  I can't stand it, so I just throw stuff at the wall and sometimes something sticks.

  3. Pcunix profile image92
    Pcunixposted 12 years ago

    That's a lot of money for so few views.

    By the way, Google doesn't allow you to state views  and  money.

    You don't need fake backlinks, though 90% of the people here will tell you that you do. 

    You need to write one thing that a lot of people will want to share or you need to write a whole bunch of stuff, some of which a few people will want to share.

    1. savanahl profile image69
      savanahlposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What are fake backlinks?

      1. Pcunix profile image92
        Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Backlinks you create to fool Google  into thinking your page is more valuable than  some  other page.  All the junk people do at Reddit et al.   All the lying and attempts at manipulation.  All the link exchange junk.  All the stuff that Google tells you NOT to do.

        But pay no attention to me.  Nobody wants to hear about honesty when we are talking about money.

        1. IzzyM profile image85
          IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          A lot of us listen to you. I will say this once, but it is important.

          Backlinks are king. But you know you can work your ass off creating them, or signing up to sites to create them for you, when all it takes is a single high PR site to link to you, and the rest is nothing.

          Getting a high PR backlink is the hard thing. High PR sites will dump you as soon as look at you.

          I was lucky, I guess.

          Some high ranking movie producer from the States liked one of my hubs.

          He linked it on a PR5 Facebook page.

          That hub did great for about a year, even after I fell into the sandbox.

          Very few of my hubs were being read, but that hub had a readership, in the low hundreds, better than nothing.

          Then Google shuffled something else, that hub lost its backlink, its really not there now, its gone....same as my traffic.

          Backlinks do count, but high PR backlinks. Don't go chasing your tails for 1000 low PR links, you'll only piss everyone off.

          God I annoy myself seeing my self-appointed links on other sites ranking above my hubs.

          1. Jason Marovich profile image88
            Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Well, it's a bit misleading having that share box on our hubs, especially the Reddit one.  I shared one article, before I realized the damage I was doing, and it got nearly two thousand hits in a few hours.  Bounce rate super high.  Now, I haven't had 2000 hits since, so, in my theory, it would take a few years to overcome that bounce rate figure, if they use an average.  So, yeah Izzy, chasing small backlinks, or social site backlinks could prove disastrous.

            1. Pcunix profile image92
              Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Don't get too excited about bounce rate.

              Some of my best pages have high bounce rates and have been getting 4-5,000 visitors per month for years, day after day, year after year.  My top ten pages have had 3 million views in the past five years and average a 87.5% bounce rate.

              Bounce rate is a much more complex subject than I can get into here but it is NOT automatic death.

              1. Jason Marovich profile image88
                Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Perhaps if high bouncers are offset with readers.  I'm happy with my bounce rate on this account right now.  But, the material has generated little bookmark/sharing interest, even on HubPages.  So I get that my material is probably considered weak for Google's purposes.

                The dungeonraider account, on the other hand, saw most everyone bounce right off.  Bummer. sad

                I realize its just own stat in a huge algorithm, but it was one I was successful in lowering, soon as I stopped sharing my own stuff.

                1. Pcunix profile image92
                  Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  But why did they bounce?

                  For example, if you had an article like "How to get by the ogre at level 7" (I don't play games so I am just making that up), I'd expect you to have a high bounce rate.  People are stuck, they go  a-googling, they find your page, they read it and it solves their problem so they immediately go back to the game.  Bounce!

                  Dwell time (which Google does not show and can't measure with 100% accuracy) is more important.  See Peter Hoggans article   http://peterhoggan.hubpages.com/hub/Dwe … Creativity

                  1. Jason Marovich profile image88
                    Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                    Thanks, I'll check out the article on dwell time.  You're right about the bouncing, MMO players don't spend a lot of their online time anywhere but in-game.  A fellow writer (not on HP) showed me some scary stats about massively multiplayer online adventure games.  Adsense money earned from articles about them is normally atrocious.  Probably because there's no dwell time?  I'll read more and see how it applies to me.

    2. Jason Marovich profile image88
      Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The money figure is HP Ads.  About the backlinks, good, because the thousands of Reddit hits resulted in over 90% bounce rate.

  4. Rain Defence profile image80
    Rain Defenceposted 12 years ago

    You don't have many hubs. Get to 200 and then talk. I also get pretty wank traffic, between 60-100 views a day at the moment, but I have hardly any hubs either.

    1. Jason Marovich profile image88
      Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      No, I won't be writing two hundred hubs for a few pennies, in the hopes that they will earn me money later.

  5. IzzyM profile image85
    IzzyMposted 12 years ago

    I remember when I was about 5 months new to this game, and someone had shared a link of mine on Reddit.

    I was so happy to see, (I think in the end it was 56 views),views.

    I was warned by the stalwarts at the time, "enjoy it, but don't expect it to last".

    Well, this was in days before Hp ads, and of course Redditors don't click. I was just happy at the time, before I learned the game.

    Now I couldn't give a rat's arse if they visited, because they are the wrong type of traffic.

    But, that is not to say their traffic doesn't count. Good luck to you out there still seeing it smile

    1. Jason Marovich profile image88
      Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks, Izzy.  I've gotten some quality traffic from Reddit, once I learned how to use it.  My initial mistake, clicking share to Digg, StumbleUpon, and Reddit, without having any idea why I was doing it, really, is what caused my problem.  Reddit has since filtered my IP, so apparently they didn't care for giving me those hundreds of views, either.  My intention wasn't 'black hat', I had no idea what the term meant until Paul E mentioned it in the forums one day.  So yeah, I used some pretty dubious methods to get the little traffic I did get, without knowing at the time that I was probably angering the Google gods.

      1. Pcunix profile image92
        Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        And that, my friend, is why I object to the promotional efforts espoused by some folks here.  They simply don't do enough qualifying as to what you should NOT be doing.

        The Learning Center articles don't do enough either.  They do hint at it, but I think people just don't see that in their haste to get a-linking.

        Another thing that isn't right is link exchange - promoting other people's content because they promoted yours.  I've seen several comments now that contain "Thanks for SHARING".  These came from a hubber who suggests that we do that in hopes that the comment will spawn a reciprocal share.  I left two of those comments at my hubs as warnings, but I have and will delete any others I see for what I hope are obvious reasons.

        People do the same ugly stuff in the various "challenges" here.  No, they are not required to, but you'll find them talking about doing it just the same - "helping each other out".

        There's nothing illegal about that and unless you go crazy with it, Google isn't going to notice.  It's still wrong by my code.

        Obviously everybody is entitled to their own moral lines in this area.  I've always said that.  I don't like self-serving fakery, but that's MY opinion and does not have to be yours.

  6. Gordon Hamilton profile image93
    Gordon Hamiltonposted 12 years ago


    You've been given good advice above already and I could write a book on my experiences over the years on trying to get traffic on Hub Pages and beyond. There's one thing, however, that springs to mind (not covered above) that I would urge you not to consider.

    I can actually work out when this happened to me, due to where I was living at the time. It was the Spring of 2008. Someone I knew online told me about a site that offered huge numbers of backlinks and promised to have you number one for your principal tag within 90 days. Looking back, I honestly can't believe I fell for it - but the bottom line is, I did. The site I submitted was already doing very well (it was not a Hub) but I sent them my URL, principal tag and hundred word summary. That was the last I saw of Google traffic on that site, to this day. The site still exists and gets traffic from Yahoo, etc but not a peep from Google ever since.

    The bottom line is that whatever you write about and where, getting good levels of traffic from whatever source depends on a great many factors, most of which are indefinable and depend on time. Keep going, keep writing and trust in white hat SEO only. I hope you get where you want to be in due course. Don't give up!

    1. Jason Marovich profile image88
      Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      My dungeonraider account articles ranked just below the main players in the genre.  I wasn't expecting or trying to outrank those sites.  I was trying to get residual traffic, that would grow, because so many D&D players were complaining about the state of the DDO wiki.  Sadly, even as the third or fourth best source for newbie information, I received awful traffic over an extended period of time.  Zero growth, no hope.

      Don't worry, I won't pay for links or engage with sites that I don't understand.  Lesson learned!

  7. sunforged profile image72
    sunforgedposted 12 years ago

    Im still a little confused when Writers have issues with keywords.

    Even in Print we had to learn and craft headlines that would capture attention. Editors will spend great amount of time recrafting headlines and in turn the article to better suit their markets

    Still true online: http://www.copyblogger.com/how-to-write … that-work/

    I don't really see the leap from headline/title crafting to keyword research.

    Keyword research is easier, now we can actually look and see what people search for and are interested in!

    Combine the two and you have a recipe for (more) success

    http://www.onlinebusinesshour.com/97-ti … headlines/

    1. Pcunix profile image92
      Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You don't see it because your focus is money rather than words.

      When I use a word or a phrase it is because it has the nuance I want.  If I say something the way I want to say it and you came along and said "If you just change that to say these words instead you'll get ten times the money", I'm just going to shrug my shoulders and tell you that I don't care.  I said what I wanted to say and that's what I'm going to say.

      Admittedly, there are times when I might not care.  Sure, say it that way, it's not that important to me.  But I'm not going to spend my time looking to find out what those words/phrases are.  Apparently you find that interesting - you probably see it as detective work or it's the thrill of the hunt.  I see it as boring.

      Eventually it won't matter anyway.  Google already knows that "feline", "cat" and "kitten" all match a search for any of them.  As AI becomes sharper, they'll have razor sharp focus on both what searchers are seeking and what results are the best match, regardless of whether you said "cute pictures of cats peeking out of shoes" or not.

      1. sunforged profile image72
        sunforgedposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        You are quite mistaken.

        While you played with 1's an 0's I worked with words.

        I said headlines capture attention, I didn't mention money.

        But when the opening sentence in the thread contains traffic and earning figures then the question does relate to money. Frequently, Writers online do equate either traffic or money with some sense of accomplishment.

        So to rephrase your typo for you:

        "You don't see it because your focus is reality rather than words."

        Your also stepping out of context. I shared a basic copywriting tenet of writing headlines that capture attention. If you want to write headlines that only appeal to yourself without consideration for whether that attracts the people that would actually like to read it, feel free, but it's not something to evangelize.

        Setting out to make money writing puts you into the realm of a Professional, Professionals have to revise, edit, revise, edit and appeal to their markets often in deference to their creative spirit or vision. In the online market that includes basic keyword research. Only Hobbyists and a very select elite can create without any concern for what appeals to their market.

        I would even contend that the better you are trained as a writer, different formats, intentions, standards, vocabulary .. the easier it is to seamlessly and comfortably weave whats necessary into a work.

        Perhaps its a generation gap, you tend to harp about the future, I still live today.

        and no, no one finds keyword research to be exhilarating, but it takes 30 seconds if your working within a subject you understand and have a general feel for what you want your title and focus to be. Its work. A four letter word to some.

        I sure hope that feline/cat/kitten aren't used interchangeably by Google and never will be as they certainly have some very obvious differences in meaning and intention.

        So, OP, in direct opposition to the advice you are receiving here:

        1. That is awful traffic and earnings for a week, yet 6 months.
        2. Social Traffic should not be your focus. Organic Targeted intentional viewers is the gold you seek.
        3. Social Networking does not provide backlinks (directly)
        4. Backlinks are still a very important factor in having visibility in the SERP's,
        5. There is a very big learning curve involved in assimilating enjoyable writing, basic seo, identifying available niches, learning about different referral sources and combining it all together into something that works for you. So in that context, 5 months and 5 bucks isn't so bad!

        Find some reliable models that fit your goals and try to stick to a few authoritative resources rather than trying sort the wheat from the chaff all over the net.

        In case your not catching it, clever as PCunix may be, he is not results driven and his online successes were made in ten years of effort - and they did not occur here. That's not bad. But what he could tell you about a commercially successful or high earning Hubpage is doubtful. He isn't claiming otherwise here, but dont let that part go over your head.

        Maybe, swing by the front page and see the Success Stories page, some might have a tutorial or advice hub or two, some can show you great titles and topic selection (Many without any concerns for SEO) .. thats a good starting point.

        It does seem whatever you are doing isnt quite working for you.

        btw, 5.75 for that level of views is quite good.

        1. Pcunix profile image92
          Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Oh, my.

          No.  My focus is reality.  Your focus is marketing.

          There's nothing wrong with that, per se.  I might detest some of your methods (and I really, really do) but I don't have any problem with the concept of marketing itself.

          I don't do marketing.  I don't evangelize my way, either.  I would like to see people be more honest, but I know that's naive.

          As to your other numbered points:

          1. Yes, it's awful traffic.  It's good earnings for that traffic, however, which is what I said (and you later acknowledge that yourself).
          2.  Agreed.  We simply disagree on appropriate behavior toward that end.
          3,4.5:  Agreed

          As to what drives me, you'd never understand that anyway.  What you always miss and always will is that I have morals that limit my drive.  I'm quite sure you do also, but mine are a bit more stringent than yours.

          I do NOT care to open up this backlinking, link trading mud slinging again, so let's try not to push too many buttons too hard.

        2. Pcunix profile image92
          Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Let me just correct a few things.  Not ten years, but over twenty now.  I began posting answers to Internet News Groups in 1991 and put up my first website in 1996.

          The News Group stuff and the website had marketing purpose and I was *very* successful at it - even though I never paid a bit of attention to eye catching headlines, keyword research or anything else SF would think is important.

          He'll tell you that I am a dinosaur, that my success was because the Internet was the wild and wooly West then.  Once the "pros" arrived, I was doomed.   There is truth in that, though "doomed" would be too strong.

          No, I'm not a high earner at HP.  I make under $100 a month here.  My main site has also suffered decline for reasons too complicated to go into here, but it is still successful by any measure.  It still brings me consulting work, I still sell books every single day, I still get Adsense and Chitika and Amazon sales.  It still does no "marketing" of itself.

          SF and I differ on methods.  I detest fake backlinking and all the implied link exchange that goes along with the various challenges he promotes.   He obviously thinks otherwise and we have had bitter exchanges in these forums in the past.

          However, over and over again I have said that if your concern is money, you should do what SF and others like him recommend.   I may detest the methods, but I have no doubt that they still work effectively.   All I have ever asked of anyone is that they understand what they are doing completely so we don't have more of the ugly banning that has happened to so many who have become overly enthusiastic in their self promotion.

          There's a hubber here who has a series of articles about Reddit.   The last in the series discusses how he got himself banned.  One of the recent comments there was from another hubber who chastened him for not putting THAT piece first in the series - she said she rushed off after reading the first two and also got herself in trouble. 

          That's what I wish for people.  If they won't match my ridiculous moral code, at least be fully aware before they charge off to do battle.

        3. Healthy Pursuits profile image81
          Healthy Pursuitsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I see from follow posts that you're in a pissing contest with Pcunix. That contest aside:
          you've use "your" twice in this post when you should have used "you're". I find that lessens your credibility as a professional writer.

          1. Pcunix profile image92
            Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I tend to be more forgiving of sloppiness in the Forums.

            But I would bet that today it doesn't mean squat to 98% of readers as they  don't know the difference themselves.

          2. sunforged profile image72
            sunforgedposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I would be quite surprised if that was the full extent of the errors in the posts I wrote in this thread.

            I wrote quite a few words.

            Was "you've use(d?) "your" twice" intended as a sneaky irony?

            or do I get off the hook now that my typos extended to two that you noticed in what 2000% more keystrokes than you made? That is one above and you should have put your head where the : is. 80 characters two mistakes, any more credibility comments?

            At least this thread was aptly titled for you!

            You will find me concerned about the typos when you find me in a venue in which I am offering my services as a writer, a forum is about as important as bathroom stall graffiti in the scheme of things.

            1. Pcunix profile image92
              Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              A *little* more important than graffiti, surely.


            2. Jason Marovich profile image88
              Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              I won't even wade into whatever argument is going on, since I'm out of my league.  Suffice to say that the advice you all have given me has me working on a new article, something I wouldn't have seriously contemplated yesterday.  So, many thanks to all who've jumped in here to help out.

      2. sunforged profile image72
        sunforgedposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        In other news: I suspect by the time AI reaches any levels you purport for semantic search - many of our visitors will be asking their iphones questions, have uber personalized google searches, be reflecting Idiocracy and watching nothing but stupid pet tricks via Media sites, talking to their media centers and gesturing at their computers. At which point, it will be a whole different search world

        1. Pcunix profile image92
          Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          It's already a different world.  Personalized search is changing it and AI will  change it even more.

          You may not want to believe that your marketing skills will become irrelevant, but that's your limited vision.

          1. sunforged profile image72
            sunforgedposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I look forward to a bigger shift towards visual triggers. That's where both my passion and talents intersect.
            All this / \ is just necessity

    2. Jason Marovich profile image88
      Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      People are interested in Dungeons and Dragons.  The Keyword Tool said so.  That didn't translate into views for me, because there was no chance I was going to take over the top spot on page one (without getting a protesting email from the makers of Dungeons and Dragons).  As my search rank stood, Turbine (D&D developers) actually complimented me on my work.  Still, the organic traffic never grew, and I don't believe it ever would over any amount of time, regardless of the keywords I tackled on my dungeonraider account.

      My personal account, the one I'm writing this from, is practically devoid of keyword research, but actually earns more quality views than my other subdomain does.

  8. Dolores Monet profile image94
    Dolores Monetposted 12 years ago

    It seems to me that most people are here for 8 months to a year before they actually make some money. Also, you don't really have a lot of hubs posted. Things take time. And writing what you like is one thing. Finding topics that people want to read about is another and it ain't easy for everyone. Somehow, you have to combine the two. Maybe that would help.

  9. sunforged profile image72
    sunforgedposted 12 years ago

    In trouble? they got banned from reddit, thats probably a blessing!

    I dont promote anything (here), I offer no services nor advice outside of basic proven easy to find methodology. I dont suggest shortcuts. I do suggest attack and high expectations though.

    In other venues where I do offer services and support, my suggestions match your site - content in a niche you enjoy, self hosted, fully controlled, authentic and consisting of value to your target audience.

    Hubpages authors arent going to see traditional followers, cant sell their ebooks without jumping through hoops or linking out to other locations, yadda, yadda.... a different approach.

    Ive run across your hyperlinked signatures many times in my travels around the net, you have commented and linked back to your site a gabillion times in the years you have owned it ...nothing wrong with that other then it does count under "marketing" itself

    this entire site is dedicated to linking back to your main site:

    with little short posts and sales copy.

    http://www.seomoves.org/blog/grow/solvi … irect-122/

    this is a guest post with a dofollow link

    you have tons of accounts at all the major tech sites riddled with years of comment links, apple,cnet, multiple linux locations, every major writing site of yesteryear,

    comments on blogs in your niche: http://sprocket.io/blog/2006/01/the-fallacy-of-ctime/



    "is it ok to like your own site?"

    were you a Poker player?

    "I think that sums it, leaving out the useless comments about my stupidity, insanity, trolling, horrid poker skills, stubbornness etc. which have permeated this discussion."

    ive seen you close discussions here with the same phrasing

    profile link building:


    You really enjoyed dropping links here

    http://www.problogger.net/archives/2006 … your-blog/

    so please, please, dont give me the martyr act .. I said it long ago, you do and have done exactly as all should do in promoting their own work, share it , show it, be proud of it. Thats just 5 minutes of scanning for me - you have been doing it since day 1 - your site is an example of textbook linkbuilding practices, profile building, comment linking, support blogs and web 2.0 sites.

    you could write a clickbank bestseller



    "I think that sums it, leaving out the useless comments about my stupidity, insanity, trolling, marketing ethics, stubbornness etc. which have permeated this discussion for months."

    You are what you detest, so Im glad you got to do it all and everyone else should follow your newly found code

    There is a 9 letter scrabble word that fits well here

    1. Pcunix profile image92
      Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I refuse to get into another pissing match with you.   You plainly do fake promotion and I plainly do not.  I'm not going to wallow in the mud with you again.  Keep on with your fakery.

    2. Pcunix profile image92
      Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for finding that, by the way: it's an unauthorized copy (theft) of one of my pages.

      Though, in fairness to them, when they stole it (2003), I had an open copying policy, so they didn't "steal".  That was just about the time that Adsense was starting and before that, we used to think that sharing our content on other sites was helpful to other people.

      Nobody thinks that today, of course.

  10. Greek One profile image64
    Greek Oneposted 12 years ago

    Are there any ways of getting quality backlinks in addition to writing quality content and optimizing your hubs for SEO?

  11. sunforged profile image72
    sunforgedposted 12 years ago

    I only bother to point that out because you picked your words unwisely today. Saw an alert this morning disparaging other hubbers for using the exact same methodology you used for years.

    We never had "bitter exchanges" That implies some level of give and receive. You just yelled your empty maxims (emptier then I knew) then declared that you were leaving. I gave you a dose of reality and suggested you pay a little more attention to human  beings and ethical personal interaction. I received nothing.

    In fact, those "bitter" forum posts were exasperating to the point I actually thought you were intentionally trolling, as you were new at the time. Now, we know that you are proud of your disconnect and demeanor but as far as conversations go - you will find that if you ever revisit those discussions that you only displayed a stubborn love of repetition and never exchanged a word or idea with anyone involved.

    I received nothing

    (perhaps a few laughs)

  12. Greek One profile image64
    Greek Oneposted 12 years ago

    i would very much like to do fake promotion.  Can some one please tell me how??

    reminds me of my single days when I told women I was rich, had large private parts, and didn.t live in my parent's basement

    1. Pcunix profile image92
      Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      SF can tell you.  He's told plenty of others.

    2. Shelly McRae profile image70
      Shelly McRaeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hahahahahahahahahahah! Love it.

  13. sunforged profile image72
    sunforgedposted 12 years ago

    ALmost missed that, I was on the phone with the Fire Department to get some assistance lifting my apparatus for this pissing match you suggested, I should warn you your not in my weight class though.

    For Greek One:

    How to Do Fake Promotion Using The PCUNIX Ethically Sound Method.

    Create a site, make it well, no point promoting garbage.

    Perhaps your original name isnt quite fitting for your target niche?

    No problem, you can change that, you dont have to be your personal name if its not working, change your brand to a targetted keyword term, like .. well, PCUNIX

    Then you can start your promotion.

    Method 1 in Ethical Fake Link Building.

    Read and interact in blogs and sites in your niche, leave engaging comments, being a bit combative is good - controversy creates discussion and increases attention.

    when you fill out these comments put your target keyword or brand in the name field, and your site link in the URL field.

    If you are extra crafty you can devise a comment that allows you to drop your link into the comment box. This is more likely to be seen and followed by other readers of the blog.

    If you happen to offer a service in that field, leaving good comments helps display your authority and you can leach off the more established blogs readership, and serps positioning

    This is a parasitic form of link building

    Method 2:

    Profile link Building

    Most big sites allow you to set up a profile when you comment, you can fill out some information and insert a url or two into a bio box, these can be very valuable at big sites like apple.com/cnet etc,

    If you travel around in sites that match your niche you can build lots of relevant links.

    Method 3:

    Guest Posting

    Sites need content, you can write cant you? Find sites that allow Guest posts aor even offer to guest post on sites you like.

    Add your link to the bio and write something engaging that will make the readers want to check you out and maybe follow you too - or buy your services or ebooks or something

    Method 4:

    Web 2.0 Article Sites.

    There are tons of HP like sites, make an account at every one you find, fill out your profile there and add links. Write articles and whenever relevant link back to your site.

    Method 5:

    Support Blogs/Sites

    Free blogging services abound, (wordpress.com is a good example) get accounts at them, grab the subdomain that fits your niche or brand. Write short teaser articles and link back to your home page with anchored keyword text.

    Method 6:

    Social Bookmarking

    Many sites exist on the net that allow people to bookmark sites they like, dont you like your own sites? Go share some links, a viral share can get thousands fo views in hours, in fact the digg-effect is known to overload sites.

    This traffic is actually not usually beneficial to a traditional site but there is always a chance you pick up a few followers or get some extra clicks.

    Method 7:

    Drop your name and site name as much as possible, mention your authority and history, this isn't link promotion persay, but you can always hope that someone who sees it takes the time to explore on their own

    Those 7 self serving methods of link building clear the PCUNIX code of ethics (if his example is his philosophy ..as it should be) and also match part and parcel with any introductory introduction to brand building and link building you will find on the net.

    if you need any examples to use to help with your understanding, just glance at the previous  post that has examples of each using PCUNIX's ethically sound site.

    ok .. the Fire Department arrived  ....

    1. Greek One profile image64
      Greek Oneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      thank you very much for the info!  Very useful!

      Not only that, but it was nicely merged not only with shots and my friend Pcunix, but more importantly, implied that you have a very large penis.

      Useful Info + Insult + Penis-size-Bragging = the 3 key components of a successful comment!

      PS.. the Fire Department might be a little late.. I have been helping them put out large forest fires all day.


    2. Pcunix profile image92
      Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      If that's a targeted keyword, it's news to me.  It was a domain name I registered way back when.  People started referring to me using that name, so I started using it myself.

      In the past, this was EXPECTED.   People wanted to know who you were and where your site was.  I still think it's appropriate, especially when commenting in an area you have expertise in. 

      Nowadays we get people pretending to be someone else leaving links for no other purpose than promotion.  When I left links, it was to answer QUESTIONS.

      No, it was what we used to do to be helpful.  People like you turned it in to something else, which is why I seldom do it any more.

      Notice that my profiles always say who I really am.  That's why it was so easy to find them.  I'm not trying to convince anyone that someone else is recommending my content - you KNOW that it is me because I always make that plain.

      I didn't do any guest posting that I remember.  I let problogger turn a comment I had made into an article once and in the days before Adsense I and just about every other tech writer on the net let anyone repost our content freely.  Many things that were taken from my site are still scattered around the net.  They were not "guest posts".

      Yes?  And again, no fakery.  Especially not to Google, because where possible, I've linked them with Google authorship.  Google knows when I am pointing at me.  They don't see it as endorsement by others.

      Actually, at one time I considered breaking up my main site into its niches.  I abandoned that idea.  There is some leftover crud out there from that.

      Like Stumbleupon? At one time, I thought that was cool.  I found good stuff there and shared good stuff there - again, with absolutely no deceit, as I identified who I am as I always do.

      Unfortunately, people like you turned the place into a junk pile, so I stopped using it years ago.

      I now use G+.  No doubt you folks will ruin that, too.

      I am ethical.   Get over it.

  14. Pcunix profile image92
    Pcunixposted 12 years ago

    So, anyway, Jason, now that you've set off a little flame war..  smile

    If you like to write, just write.  You may or may not be successful at it, but if you like what you are doing, that is success.

    If you want to make money, go check out Sunforged and learn his craft.  Your success there may vary also, of course, but there are many other people giving similar advice, so if you don't quite "click" there, you can find another mentor easily.

    1. Jason Marovich profile image88
      Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Ironically, my posts are awesome for starting flame wars in the strategy games I play, too!  LOL.  Noooooo, it wasn't my intention to set you and SF against each other, but you have to admit, what you've both said here is very valuable to new people on HP.  For us, the pros and cons of writing, SEO, and backlinks are important to us.  Especially coming from two old pit bulls like you two. big_smile

      1. Pcunix profile image92
        Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Don't worry about it.  SF and I will never get along.

        I still recommend that you follow his path if that's the direction you want to go.

  15. Greek One profile image64
    Greek Oneposted 12 years ago

    For the longest time, I though that your first name started with the initial P, and that your last name was Cunix.

    Sure, I maybe the sexiest Hubber, but I am not the smartest

    1. Pcunix profile image92
      Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      No, it was because I specialized in Unix on PC hardware.   I registered that domain name a long, long time ago.

      A few years later, I discovered that someone else had used it as a trademark.  They were out of business and unfortunately people had already started calling me "pcunix", but I registered a new domain using my name and initials and 301'd the old name to that.

      I couldn't shake the moniker as easily and finally gave up trying to do so.  I now use it everywhere for consistency.

      I suppose someone could buy that trademark and make things difficult for me.  I'm getting old enough that I don't care much if they do.

  16. Tams R profile image84
    Tams Rposted 12 years ago

    Wow Jason you stepped in a monstrous pile of poo for your simple question. You may know all of this and I am not trying to be a know-it-all newbie. Please take that into consideration as you read.
    While it absolutely correct in the terms of service for Google AdSense you had to agree not to post actual figures, the rest of your question is valid.
    I read somewhere it takes a person over 10,000 words to start perfecting their writing. It's someone famous and for the life of me, I cannot find it. Good thing I don't plan to die soon eh?
    For 3 days I've put myself through the gambit over my love for writing and my need to make money. It's been an interesting ride. But here is what it came down to:
    If you love to write, why not write in a place that COULD make you money sometime down the road. You could write it on paper, but there are several possibilities you would be missing that way. (Loss, damage, no one notices your writing, etc.)
    If I were you, I'd write more informative hubs and keep them to a couple of select topics so you can group them. Don't forget to use the suggested links at the top of each hub. Also, if you're not doing it already get out to the other hubs with similar topics as yours and read them. 2 things happen - 1 you may learn something; get an idea or you may get them to make a visit to your site by leaving them an insightful comment without you leaving any link at all.
    I'll admit, I'm relatively new to hubs but I'm closing in on you quickly doing it this way with only 13 hubs in 4 weeks. I'm not bragging but saying I don't think you're doing well with 6 months either. 
    Even a personal website can take 6 months or more to get recognized and start receiving good organic traffic. The wager in that is good content and plenty of it. Enough to swing Google toward believing you have authoritative content and you plan on sticking around. HP is no different, 16 pages isn't going to drive you to riches over a couple of months unless your topic is wildfire in the world.
    I don't mean to treat you as if you don't know any of this, but I am unaware of what you do know. Trying to be helpful.
    As far as your link to your other site, the only thing I can say about that is when I read Google forums today, I found a place that talks about linking to sites that don't do well or have content against their TOS reducing page rank. You might look into that.
    Lastly, I must say everyone who uses HP has built in linking system you do not get on a personal website. By nature when you leave a comment on HP as a member of HP, you leave your profile and anyone can click on it and see what you write as well. In a sense, it is all the same to me, but I strongly discourage anyone from going out to simply drop their URL on sites they cannot contribute information to. It seems spammy, is spammy and will get you penalized eventually.
    Now, I'm going to sit back and see if that causes a war. smile Best of luck!

  17. psycheskinner profile image83
    psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

    My goal is for them to bounce.  Hit hub, click ad=win.

  18. Mark Ewbie profile image81
    Mark Ewbieposted 12 years ago

    Here's a few random points.

    OP mentioned not wanting to write 200 hubs without success.  Well, I have managed it.  Untargeted ego writing.  No traffic, but had fun doing it.

    Sunforged and PCunix.  Both of them teach me valuable things.  I am happy to read them because this is genuine stuff from people who know things.  The fact they disagree makes the information more valid.

    If any one person had the magic answer then Google would be losing it's battle against people gaming it.  So you mix and match and choose to suit yourself.

    My personal angle on traffic is this, and it comes with a very basic warning - I don't get much.

    If traffic is important...

    You need to write for an audience of searchers.  People need to be looking for whatever.

    Your article need not be brilliant, but it needs to be as good, preferably better, than the competition for your title / keyword.

    Your article should be non keyword stuffed, non spammy, non filled with adverts and engaging with your target audience. The idea being to give the searcher something of use.

    That's it.  That's my social networking done for today. Thank Christ.

    1. Jason Marovich profile image88
      Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You mention "if traffic is important".  Why wouldn't getting read be important to a writer, I've seen that phrase bandied about, but it's a mystery to me why people use it.  If I wanted to write something no one would ever read, I'd write it in a notebook.

      Journals, and the like, are for writing exercise.  Writing anything else, well, I'm writing it to be read and enjoyed.

      Being an online article writer includes getting your articles read, and hopefully, read by many.  Even if someone's not in it for the money, they're probably interested in getting views.  Or have I lost touch here?

      1. Tams R profile image84
        Tams Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        I agree 100%. I could have kept my files on my PC waiting for a time to put them in a book. Instead, I chose to put them online, both for reading and earning something. If I wanted to do it for just views, I'd pass it all over town. If i wanted to do it for nobody, I'd keep it.

      2. Mark Ewbie profile image81
        Mark Ewbieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

        Yes Ok, my point wasn't made very well. Of course I want to be read.  But I still want 'my' stuff to be read.  I don't really want to study what the searchers arre looking for and write "100 best ways to trim your cat's ass".

        That's what I mean.  Writing your own stuff or tweaking it into stuff that the internet searchers are looking for.

        Does that make more sense?

        1. Jason Marovich profile image88
          Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, it does.  You and Pcunix are both in the position I'm in.  I'd rather not write about how to make my favorite guacamole (I probably can't even spell it) since I'm rarely seen in the kitchen and I don't recall ever eating the dish.

          My articles all have a personal touch.  I write about stuff I want to write about.  But, what if no one else likes what I like?  Egad.

          I'll put it this way about why I've been disappointed at the lack of traffic.  I started to see some growth, and then traffic settled back to near where it was when I started.  That's a disappointment. 

          I don't like to quit anything I've started, I just hope that two years down the road I don't have the same traffic.  That's the heart of it, it would be failure, and I despise failure.

          1. Pcunix profile image92
            Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Throw enough at the wall and some will stick..

            1. Jason Marovich profile image88
              Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

              Priceless advice from the Eighth Century.  I shall.  I'm throwing it now.


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