Would you like to test a community edit feature?

1. 83

   Simone Smithposted 12 years ago

   Ever since I started working with HubPages, I've received requests for a feature that makes it easy for:
   1. Signed-in Hubbers to suggest (private) edits to fellow Hubbers' Hubs
   2. Hubbers (who have opted in to the feature) to receive, review, and approve/deny suggested edits to one's own Hubs.
   
   This feature could help us improve the overall quality of Hubs on the site, as well as keep our own Hubs up to date and mistake / typo-free.
   
   Would you be interested in trying this community edit feature out on your Hubs? If so, fill out this form (we're just asking for your username and email) to be added to a list of potential beta testers.

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   1. 89

      Kaili Bissonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Glad to help Simone, and I welcome feedback on my own Hubs so that I can continue to improve them.

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   2. 71

      Born2care2001posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Simone,
      I think this would be a fabulous idea. Any writer worth his or her salt would welcome constructive, educational, criticism. I know I would! I will say that, like anything else on the internet, I hope some governing would be built in somehow for anyone inclined to abuse the system or fellow hubbers!
      Keep me posted! I look forward to learning more!
      Sincerely,
      Bruce

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      1. 68

         kgala0405posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I have the same concern.  I think many Hubbers would use this tool to provide helpful feedback, but I worry about people using it to leave hurtful feedback.  I hope that their is a way to control what type of criticism can be given or a way to report mean spirited people that are miss using the tool.

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         1. 91

            DzyMsLizzyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Agreed, kgala0405;  While most writers welcome constructive criticism, many of us can also be a bit thin-skinned, and do not respond well to being slammed with criticism for its own sake, or simply because the critic disagrees with the published viewpoint.

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      2. 83

         Simone Smithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Not to worry, guys.  These are private suggestions and can be easily denied, plus we'll probably build in a blocking feature.

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   3. 91

      DzyMsLizzyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Simone, this might be a workable feature--I would love the private nature--I am often torn when finding errors (probably just typos) in someone's Hub--whether to just ignore it, or send them an e-mail.  I dislike making corrections and critiques in the public comments, for I would not want to embarrass the writer.  However, not all authors have their "contact so-and-so" feature activated.
      
      I often re-read my own articles when going to the page to respond to comments, and every so often, I do find a typo I'd missed on prior proofreading....it happened just today!
      I believe I'd be willing to beta-test, given that it is private, and you'd have the option to ignore, (with no need to reply, I presume)?

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      1. 83

         Simone Smithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Of COURSE you'd have the option to ignore someone's suggested change with no need to reply!! Oh, it'd be AWFUL if folks would just be able to change your Hubs. We'd never do that.

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   4. 88

      WannaB Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I think this is a great idea, and I just submitted my form. I do, hope, though, that people will also continue to proofread their work before publishing, instead of signing up for this and thinking they won't need to proofread themselves anymore.

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   5. 77

      Ms Deeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      After reading through the discussion and Simone's responses, this seems to be thought out enough to be a helpful addition to the Hub community. Signing up!

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   6. 95

      ChaplinSpeaksposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      This sounds like a good "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" way to get some free editing of hubs.  And the edit feature would be easier to use than sending an email to the author.
      
      If someone has the edit feature on his hubs, can anyone send suggestions? - meaning even Hub members who are not using the program themselves, and also guest users who are signed in.  I see you said signed in Hubbers, but just wanted to double check that.  Thanks!

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      1. 83

         Simone Smithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Signed in Hubbers = anyone with a HubPages account who is currently logged in. That includes folks who do not publish Hubs.

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         1. 95

            ChaplinSpeaksposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks!  I have been receiving some unwanted "mail" from signed in guests, so wanted to see if they would be included!
            I think the new edit feature will be a plus for many, and I like how HubPages is continuously evolving and trying new things.

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2. 85

   Pcunixposted 12 years ago

   As I was one of the people who suggested that, yes, I'd be happy to help test!

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   1. 83

      Simone Smithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I'm glad you suggested it, Pcunix.

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         Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I don't think I was the only one, but if thanks are due, they go to you for picking up the ball and running with it.

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3. 95

   Glenn Stokposted 12 years ago

   Simone, I just submitted the form to beta test this. I think it's a great feature to have. It's not always easy to find our own mistakes and I welcome the opportunity to let readers send feedback on typos so that I can correct them. It would be a tremendous help to anyone who is willing to opt in on it.

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   1. 89

      Jlbowdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I also like this idea as well,because it would be beneficial in having a second set of eyes to proofread, or edit our work. Often we can spend multiple attempts at reviewing our own articles-two or more times for example.Only to find that we still may have missed additional typos and/or grammatical errors. In this way the Beta test would be a great second pair of eyeballs, without having to hire a personal editor, or rely on another member of hubpages all of the time, to help point out our mistakes. So let the testing begin!

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      1. 89

         Jlbowdenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Oh yes-I almost forgot to mention, if I didn't already do so in my previous post. That I also had submitted the Beta test App as well. Thanks Simone for posting this info. and also Glenn, Kaili and Pcunix, among others for the friendly forum reminders.

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4. 83

   Simone Smithposted 12 years ago

   Thanks for stopping by the form, everyone!

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5. 85

   Len Cannonposted 12 years ago

   I've always thought this would be a great idea. But I also know that editing and proofing is hard work.  I'd like to see some type of consideration for the editors who put their talent into a project like this.  Maybe something like 5% of the views, similar to how you would accrue them if you had brought links in via a referral.
   
   I'm sure there are plenty of technical considerations (first and foremost: who gets the referral bonus if multiple edits occur) but I feel like it is a fair trade for a hard job.

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   1. 83

      Simone Smithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      We've been thinking about options like that. It's certainly something we have in mind for future iterations.

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6. 59

   paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

   "Why would you like to beta test this feature? This feedback is optional. “This is an excellent idea! I need all the help I can get. ”"

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   1. 83

      Simone Smithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hahaa, as do I!!

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7. 83

   Healthy Pursuitsposted 12 years ago

   While, like others here, I have some concerns about abusive editors and people who just slam because they disagree, I'm a big girl. So I'll sign up for this and report any so-and-so who abuses it. I think it would be great.

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   1. 83

      Simone Smithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      There's not much value in abusing this feature when those comments are private and can be easily denied.  I'm thinking it'll be MOSTLY positive feedback that folks get- by far.

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8. 90

   Daughter Of Maatposted 12 years ago

   I filled out the form as well. This will be a great feature as long as it's not exactly like Wikiedits in that someone can edit out whole parts of the hub. As long as it's suggestions that require approval, I'm all for it. Sometimes a fresh pair of eyes can really improve one's writing!

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9. 83

   Pamela N Redposted 12 years ago

   I'm in.

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10. 90

    Sue Adamsposted 12 years ago

    Good idea. It'll benefit us all. So I'll play.

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11. 71

    jacharlessposted 12 years ago

    Okay, fine, I'll be the Skeptic
    A community based editorial would mean access by one or more Hubbers, to suggest editing features to particular Hubs, oui?
    
    Enquêter:
    a. how are those persons determined as "valuable/qualified" editors (i.e. hubs score, overall score), at random or by individual selection?
    b. what about favoritism or disdain between Hubbers, meaning not everyone gets along or prefers particular topics, while there are clusters, meaning regular groups of writers who tend to be, what's the word...cliquish.
    c. will there be a designated group of les fins modérateur, among the Hub Staff to handle issues and or override editing concerns?
    
    Again, fair and unbiased literary critique is awesome and inspiring! But you know  there's gonna be a few apples in there...
    
    James.

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    1. 81

       WriteAngledposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Another doubter raises her hand...
       
       Given the poor grammar and gross overuse of slang expressions I see on so many hubs,  I would not be happy to let the HP world loose on my own material. My writing style reflects who I am. I do not want any Tom, Dick or Harry dictating to me, or, even worse, being able to make random changes to what I write.
       
       I shall certainly not be participating in the test scheme. The day this is ever imposed as a mandatory condition will be the day I remove all my writing from this site.
       
       First we had the Pinterest rubbish forced on us, now it's the Wikipedia model!

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       1. 59

          paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Oh, my!
          
          Hopefully they'll have an on/off switch.

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       2. 71

          jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          You hit the nail on the head...Hubwiki.
          Still, there is the automatic filters, then the human filter for substandard entries. Adding this puts a lot of pressure on what is supposed to be a fun, altruistic writing platform, for many novice writers -and what about those EAASL (english as a second language) folks who make up a larger portion of Hubs. After two or three tough critiques, they would stop writing all together, just from sheer frustration.
          
          I just don't know...
          James

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          1. 88

             WannaB Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             
             
             
             I don't think anyone should actually be able to make the edit on another's page. I thought the suggestions would be made and the writer would then incorporate the changes him (or her) self. I do, however, realize that it's much more difficult to tell a fellow hubber what changes need to be made than to just make them. Whereas I appreciate a fellow hubber pointing out a typo I missed, I would be reluctant to actually let someone whose skills I don't trust have access to my page to make those changes. I am pretty protective of my own hubs.

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    2. 83

       Simone Smithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       jacharless, to address your lettered questions:
       
       a. If you enable edits to your Hubs, any signed-in Hubber can submit suggested edits, BUT those changes will only be made should you review and approve them.
       
       b. Cliques will watch out for each other a bit better than they'd watch out for non-buddies. Where's the downside here?
       
       c. The author of a Hub is the one and only authority when it comes to accepting or denying proposed changes.
       
       WriteAngled: You would be welcome to leave the feature off, and to not receive any proposed edits to your Hubs.
       
       Paradigmsearch: There will DEFINITELY be an on/off switch.
       
       jacharless: I don't really see it as pressure; I see it as an option to get added help and feedback on your work. If I were learning Spanish and writing on a Spanish articles site, I would really like for fellow users to let me know when I had made grammatical mistakes on my articles.

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       1. 83

          Pamela N Redposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Just because someone makes a suggestion doesn't mean you have to take their advice.
          
          I've been in critique groups and had editors work over my writing on many occasions. As a writer you have to have a thick skin or you won't make it in this industry.
          
          You have the option to use this tool or not, doesn't sound like anyone is forcing us to have our work edited.

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          1. 71

             jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Pamela, I wholeheartedly agree, save one thing, Hub Pages is not in the industry, per say. They are a branch of the industry of writing, yes -and a damned good one at that (in my opinion), possible one of the best.
             
             But having fellow Hubbers -generally speaking 99% novice writers, inclusive to some having effective marketing dynamics for successful PPC revenue- determining what is/is not sufficient content is not something that makes very good sense. Unless of course it is someone like Habee {Holly} who has credentials in English and American Literature, etc. Someone like that is someone I would not only appreciate, but hunt down like nobodies business, to read and advice my writing.
             
             James.

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             1. 85

                Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                So if you accidentally type "it's paw was swollen" or "its the way it should be" or "your absolutely correct", you don't want me to point that out to you unless I have a degree in English literature?
                
                
                You are right.  And Habee shouldn't be allowed to turn on her computer because she doesn't have a degree in computer science.

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                1. 71

                   jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Well, if you are a native English speaking individual, over the age of 21, who is too challenged to implore a free, inclusive browser spell check, else pick up a philology/grammar handbook, then shame on them. Accidentally-on-purpose, just to get people to one's hubs, is more than childish, PCUnix, which is precisely where your statement appeared to be going. The greatest rule of writing is take your time, proof and reproof, before publishing. There's plenty of time for Formula One tweet marathons and narcissistic Forum Megaphones -err- Mega Phonics -err- Mega Phonies, afterward.
                   
                   Furthermore, based solely on your attitude/remarks toward me and others, in this thread alone, is precisely the point of why I would not want the likes of you anywhere near my hubs.
                   
                   My clear recommendation for this type of feature would be either an automated AJAX assistant controlled by Hub Pages, else strictly signed in Followers of ones Hubs. Because those who follow/read a Hubbers work are more apt to be unbiased and friendly. what's more, is should compensation apply for valuable critique, most certainly it should fall in line to traditional affiliate measures of the Hubber, not a random Yokaren. But, that is just my opinion.
                   
                   SMH...Happy Saturday!
                   
                   James

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                   1. 85

                      Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      Oh, thank you SO much for informing me of the "greatest rule of writing".
                      
                      Stupid me, I thought the goal of writing was communication.  But I guess I made that mistake because I don't have  a degree in English Literature.
                      
                      Don't worry about me suggesting edits on your hubs - I wouldn't be reading them anyway.

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             2. 83

                Pamela N Redposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I've read many great articles here by authors that write full time for a living, most do not have a degree in English Literature but I feel confident they would be a great help pointing out any errors I may have inadvertently overlooked.

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                1. 71

                   jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   True.
                   Still, one, simple AJAX {Asynchronous JavaScript and XML} script can do that, which am sure the programmers behind Hub Pages can do in their sleep. Grammar, punctuation and spelling -even a thesaurus/word recommendation can be applied to the script. Like a virtual editor.
                   
                   Anywho, just me rambling.
                   And now I have Hub-Wiki stuck in my head. lol.
                   Off to run off yesterdays coffee an ...!
                   
                   James

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                   1. 83

                      Pamela N Redposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      Automated systems can only do so much as we see over and over with Spell Check.
                      
                      Maybe it will work and maybe not, we shall see.

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                      1. 85

                         Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         Very true.
                         
                         I did go check one of his hubs, for example.  Glaring errors in the very first paragraph that a human would notice (with or without a degree in English Lit) but a computer can miss.  I'm not picking on him - we all make these mistakes and can miss them even after multiple proof reading.
                         
                         Computer checking still has a long way to go.  Microsoft Word is actually pretty good at it, but even it lets things by (and especially so when the writer doesn't understand why it is complaining!).
                         
                         It will be years before computers recognize missing context, for example.  You suddenly refer to something that you are sure you mentioned previously, but did not - or maybe you took it out in a later edit.
                         
                         We need people.  That's not going to change for at least a few decades.  That's why I suggested this to begin with (though I think other people may have before I did) and that's why I'm happy to see it.
                         
                         The grumpy people who think this is not a good idea can simply not opt in.   The rest of us will benefit.

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                      2. 71

                         jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         Indeed, seems we shall.
                         
                         Interim, programs like Grammerly.com and Visual Thesaurus, trusted by some of the top universities, versus hyper bloggers, are not only valuable tools, but very precise, beyond Sloppy Joe's Windows software.
                         
                         My point is that Hub Pages is supposed to be a fun, engaging site, for those who have a liking to write. That's it. Publish fun, tickle me articles, on whatever subject a person likes, and maybe make a few dollars on the side. These increasingly deep literary scoring elements and community editor tools are pushing the fun to the side, little by little, because of business requirements for revenue generation precision and google-moogle ever changing goal posts.
                         
                         Now, if Hub Pages was an actual Publication House, for print or ebook, or at least going in that direction, without question my tune would be very different. Then extensive tools, like this editor, would be expected, appreciated -if not mandatory. This is not such a place. Certainly, a hand full of mainstream published authors write here, myself to be included shortly, and some very good self-published authors, as well as philologists, interpreters, educators and the like. And that is awesome! It really, really is. Just to be among them, well, I feel both honored and inspired. Every writer needs an outlet. Some from the gruel associated with professional writing {of which I have recently become aware of, on a massive scale} while others just to vent verbiage to flush out the system, find inspiration and get back on the writers horse.
                         
                         James

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                         1. 85

                            Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                            I suspect all most of us are looking for is a way that people can inform us of fat-fingered errors without leaving a public comment and without taking the trouble to contact through Hubpages.
                            
                            That's all I intended when I suggested it.   Just a simple "'Oops, you typed "there"  when you mean "their".  Other people may expect more, other people may do more, but that alone would be helpful to most of us (including you, based on the hub I looked at).

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                            1. 85

                               Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                               For example, just reading one paragraph of your Adsense related hub, I might say:
                               
                               You forgot to capitalize the "Did" in "did it succeed?"  and I don't think you meant "test modal" (though you may have - I think it's an odd usage, but maybe you are trying to convey something different than I think).
                               
                               No doubt you'd fix the "did it succeed?".  You might ignore me on your use of "modal".
                               
                               Someone else might suggest  that your first paragraph is far too long for the web and suggest breaking it  up at a logical point.  You might ignore that advice too.
                               
                               I doubt anyone is going to bother to rewrite anything, but I could be wrong.  Some stickler might think your sentences to be clumsy and suggest improvements; I'd suggest ignoring them as your voice is your voice and some readers like some styles and some don't, so you can't make everyone happy anyway.
                               
                               Is that so awful?  There's no point in putting it in a comment, because after you fix whatever you want to fix, you'd have to delete it and the comment would not be  relevant to the discussion anyway.  Email through hubpages is an annoyance for both of us - you may not want me to have your email address, but if you respond, I'd have it.  I may not want you to have mine either, so I might not want to send it anyway!
                               
                               That's the point of this.

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                                  jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                  No, it is not the point, PCUnix, and apparently you keep missing it. Granted, you feel a sense of entitlement, because you "suggested" such a feature. For that I commend you. Still, by your own exemplification feel it necessary to critique my blog, which you emphatically stated would never do, to make your point. And again, I commend you, sincerely.
                                  
                                  Here is a realistic scenario. One Hubber has close to 5k followers. That's five thousand fellow amateur to semi-amateur bloggers telling this blogger, "Dude,  you spelled 'they're', 'there' or 'there'". Multiply that by the 50k organic accounts {which do not include sock-puppet accounts}. Now 50k bloggers are spending more time on "there" and "they're" instead of "their" own articles.
                                  
                                  Second, Hub Pages is not a Literary Guild or even Literary Assignment. It is, however, an awesome and brilliant step above Blogger, Tumblr and Wordpress. But not a writers site. Else, they would employ professional editors rather than Attitude Adjustment Moderators. Not one member of the staff is a professional Literarian. In fact, half are Technologists, others PPC/Revenue Aggregates, while the remainder Marketing Agents. granted, all of them do a bang-up job of marketing, PPC/SEO compliance recommendations, UI/UX Development and certainly making money for the qualified members here!! Hands down, unequivocally, unambiguously a fact, as I am sure you can agree.
                                  
                                  Most write here as a hobby, not as a profession, for the benefit of PCC earnings and not necessarily for the sake of literary appreciation or perfection. Therefore, small, textual misnomers are nothing, really. Why would anyone be overly concerned about them, unless those words are going to be used for a higher purpose, like say a career in writing or an offer for a position with a niche businesses, which that writer has a vested interest in? One cannot apply the idea of personal writing development unless there is a professional monitoring the work, who would provide full-on editorial critique and the outcome leads to a literary situation {publishing offer}. that is why publishing houses and blogs exist, to be two different things. The hybrid is self-publishing, actually.
                                  
                                  Beyond that, 5k suggestions would be a bit excessive. Even 1% of that would be over-the-top per publication! As said, if this were an ebook development tank, my tune would be different, "like fer sure, totally". But, this is not the case. Hub Pages is supposed to be a fun place to play and make money playing. Simple. Think of it as a Vanity Press for blogging, with a very nice cha-ching angle. A vanity press or self-publisher does not employ editors for that very reason unless offering extended services for a substantial fee.
                                  
                                  Tell the truth: would you pay a professional editor to review your hubs? If no, then what's all the fuss surrounding professional measures being added to a blog? If yes, what's all the fuss surrounding adding amateur-to-amateur critique of those same blogs?
                                  
                                  James.

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                            paxwillposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                            "My point is that Hub Pages is supposed to be a fun, engaging site, for those who have a liking to write. That's it."
                            
                            Actually, that's not it, that's just your opinion.
                            
                            Hubpages is a business whose success depends on web searchers finding  these articles, and finding them useful.  If hubs are riddled with grammatical errors, a searcher will hit the back button and find what they need on a site with higher editorial standards.  That's because most people judge the accuracy of information partly on how well it is written.

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             cclitgirlposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Pamela - you just convinced me that I should do this.  I really think that many writers who want to improve could benefit from this.  Just as we don't have to respond to hurtful/mean comments, hopefully people wouldn't abuse this feature.  But, if the world is looking at what I write, it's embarrassing to find a typo in my writing for sure.  Thanks! 

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                Pamela N Redposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Most writers here are good people. I haven't had any problems and I've been here over two years. I'm not worried about people being mean for the sake of sabotaging my work.

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    3. 83

       Healthy Pursuitsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       jacharless, the edits will be simply suggestions. As we own our hubs, others would not do direct editing.

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          jacharlessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Good thing too! lol. The only people, in my mind, qualified to offer editorial of my writing are actual editors, who get paid to tell me just how "mashugina" my writing really is   James.

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12. 0

    kelleywardposted 12 years ago

    Fantastic idea! This would be very helpful!

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13. 86

    Millionaire Tipsposted 12 years ago

    I've signed up as well, and look forward to it.  It's a great way to show your readers that you are open to constructive feedback, which will at the least let you know what they are thinking about your hubs, and what kinds of things bother them about it.  If someone catches a typo, it is a simple way to let someone know it exists so they can fix it.  I think incrementally, it will improve the quality of the site.

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14. 80

    Mekenzieposted 12 years ago

    I signed up.  I welcome anyone who gives pointers and/or draws attention to errors made on any of my hubs.   I want to be the best writer I can be. Thank you for offering such a useful and awesome tool!
    Mekenzie

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15. 75

    Karandaposted 12 years ago

    Excellent idea! Well done for this one HubPages. Looking forward to the new feature as I'm sure it will help me not only with HubPages articles but writing in general.

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16. 74

    sofsposted 12 years ago

    Count me in... I love this idea

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17. 90

    Will Apseposted 12 years ago

    I think the editing should be limited to pointing out spelling and grammatical errors plus a way to highlight clumsy sentences that are hard to read.
    
    I wouldn't welcome someone rewriting my pages, Wiki-style, unless, perhaps, they were real pros.
    
    A way of marking Hubs in need of proofing with a small payoff of some kind might work.
    
    Choosing an editor from a list of community-scored editors would be better than waiting for a random visitor.

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       Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       First of all, you don't have to opt in at all.
       
       Second, if you do opt in, you are free to ignore any specific suggestions.
       
       This isn't "wiki style" at all.

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       1. 90

          Will Apseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          This is the blog post:
          
          
          "We’re constantly looking for new ways to improve the quality of Hubs on HubPages as well as your experience as an online writer. To do this, we regularly test out new ideas and features that might make a difference.
          
          One feature we’ve been working on is a community edit feature; one which makes it possible to:
          
              Suggest edits to a fellow Hubber’s Hub (when you’re signed in to your HubPages account)
              Receive, review, and approve or deny suggested edits to your Hubs (should your fellow Hubbers notice a mistake or typo)
          
          This feature would be quite similar to community edit features you will encounter on wiki-style sites.
          
          Are you interested in this community edit feature? Would you like to make it possible for your fellow Hubbers to suggest edits to your Hubs when they notice room for improvement or mistakes? If so, visit this form (to give us your username and email), and we will add you to a list of potential beta testers!"
          
          Pulling out the relevant phrase:
          
          This feature would be quite similar to community edit features you will encounter on wiki-style sites.
          
          Don't get so defensive on a feature that is hardly near maturity.

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          1. 85

             Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Pulling out one phrase and ignoring the rest..
             
             Sigh..
             
             Opt out, Will.   That "wiki" word is just too dangerous!

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                Will Apseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                It exists.

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                   Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Ayup.
                   
                   It sure does.  And there is a reason why I stopped posting in these forums.  Thanks for reminding me of it.

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             paxwillposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             "Receive, review, and approve or deny suggested edits to your Hubs (should your fellow Hubbers notice a mistake or typo"
             
             The key difference is that HP allows you to approve the edits before they go live.  With a wiki, the edits are visible immediately.  Not the same thing here.

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                Will Apseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Using the word 'wiki' is rather alarming. As long as the proposed feature is not a first step towards a wiki-style site, I won't be complaining.
                
                All-in-all, it is difficult to see how a simple edit feature cannot be useful to at least some extent. It could be very useful indeed if you can choose your editors as well as just throwing your pages open to every hubber.
                
                Finally, offering incentives to genuinely good editors to give a page a thorough scrutiny would be even better.

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18. 0

    SirDentposted 12 years ago

    Count me in.

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19. 90

    Will Apseposted 12 years ago

    Just to be clear.
    
    If simple proofing were on offer, I might opt in. I would be prepared to pay for it, direct from my earnings preferably (at a reasonable price) or if necessary, via some complex arrangement with view percentages.
    
    I would probably only use the service if I could choose the editor/proofreader. Ideally, that would be from a list maintained on site.
    
    I wouldn't be interested in large scale rewrites but, of course, some people might. Especially, ESL writers. It would be nice if that was offered too.
    
    OK, that is my own entirely personal perspective. What other people think is up to them.

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20. 83

    Simone Smithposted 12 years ago

    Thanks again for your feedback and support, everyone! I'm going to un-sticky this thread, but I'll keep y'all posted on the feature as we move forward.

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21. 91

    DzyMsLizzyposted 12 years ago

    One last clarification---
    
      Any edits are "suggested," and can be either accepted or ignored. I understand that much just fine. 
    
    However, the point I wish to clarify, is this:
    
    If those edits are "accepted," are they automatically done, or do we authors apply them manually? 
    (The latter would be the preferrable option, as some types of changes could have a 'domino effect,' requiring minor to moderate re-writing of an entire paragraph.)
    
    (By the way--I did sign up...)

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22. 69

    lrohnerposted 12 years ago

    I just ran through this thread and found posts from only two or three people (outside of Simone -- didn't look at her posts) that didn't have grammatical errors or stylistic issues that go against journalistic standards.
    
    I think the idea of collaborating to make hubs better is a gallant one, but pretty unrealistic -- and I'm sure you know that. When you've got one writer who lacks grammar prowess and basic spelling/punctuation skills editing another one, it just becomes a whole lot of busy work, IMHO.

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       DzyMsLizzyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Agreed, lronher---  I do proof reading on the side already, but I can also embarrass myself in these forums, as I am writing on the fly.  I've made typos plenty of times and failed to catch them.
       As for "journalistic standards," I would not expect them in these forums, only in Hubs.  This is more of an informal meeting place, in which we can use the vernacular tone, assorted slang, and make wisecracks to some exent.
       

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       Pamela N Redposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       It's so much easier for me to edit another person's work than it is my own. I think that is true for everyone.
       
       Hopefully my errors weren't too painful for you.

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23. 85

    Pcunixposted 12 years ago

    Some people just don't get it.
    
    Those people should not opt in, regardless of how much good it could actually do them..
    
    Thanks, Simone.  The rest of us will find this useful.

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24. 71

    jacharlessposted 12 years ago

    Intelligence Is Sexy: Hot For Words
    Not for nothing, PCUnix, I would approach her for literary critique about my blog, before I would you. Especially someone who claims to know what is "actually good" for someone else, yet is suffering from the same problem. And made that fact known by suggesting such a feature in the first place. NPD couldn't be more precise a word. Have a "grate daye" fella.

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25. 81

    WriteAngledposted 12 years ago

    In my view, the only way this would work, for those who wish to resort to such a feature, is if comments could only be made by individuals who had been carefully vetted for grammatical competence. I suppose this could be yet another "accolade" for those who like to display such matters on their profiles.
    
    Even then, there is still the problem of style. At the most basic level we have the different "voices" of English as it is spoken in the UK, Australia, NZ, Canada, India, USA, etc. As someone who speaks with a UK voice, I would be uncomfortable being "corrected" by someone from the USA.
    
    Then we come to controversial grammatical matters, such as split infinitives and hanging participles. I tend to avoid them, both when writing and when speaking, because most of the time they sound ugly, although admittedly there are rare occasions when they are unavoidable. Only recently this issue came up in a forum I frequent concerning the phrase: "the place I am going to". I responded that I would never dream of saying this. Instead, I would use: "the place to which I am going". Someone else said they thought my variant sounded stilted. To me, the first variant sounded uneducated and boorish. A similar issue arises with the use of "whom", which I find totally natural, but which some people cannot comprehend.
    
    Finally, there is the question of the target audience. For example, someone who writes thoughtful pieces for the educated layman will have a totally different voice to someone who writes chatty, "mumsy" articles on how to whip up a meal in 5 minutes from various tins, or someone who focuses on gossip about soap operas and trashy "celebrities" (all these approaches have potential earning capacity; it really depends on an individual author's comfort zone as to which they choose to address). Again, it would be pointless for an author aiming at one of these groups to comment on material written for members of another group.
    
    I think that the only solution to the style issue would be to introduce the option for each hub author to select the individuals from whom he or she wishes to receive editorial suggestions and disable suggestions from anyone else.

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    1. 91

       DzyMsLizzyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Your final sentence sounds like a good idea.  I agree with your assessment of style variations as they relate to the target audience(s).
       
       "Whom" is indeed a word that confounds many people.  I recall a time, many years back, upon answering the phone;  the person on the other end did not quite speak plainly.  I asked, "With whom did you wish to speak?"  There was a stunned silence, and then, "Oh. I got the wrong number. No one I know says 'whom.' " 

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          WriteAngledposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Love it!

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    2. 85

       Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Sigh.
       
       
       You just don't get it.
       
       All of your points are valid, but what you miss is that ANYONE CAN MAKE USELESS SUGGESTIONS NOW.   They can do it in the comments or they can do it by contacting you through email.
       
       Of course you can disable comments and not allow contact through hubpages - and you wouldn't have to allow this either.
       
       This is just an alternative, private communications channel.   That's all.  It can be abused, but so can everything else.  You can not turn it on, you can turn it on and ignore it or you can take advantage of it.
       
       
       Repeat after me:  optional, alternative, private.  It's that simple!

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          Will Apseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          You should try to understand that many people have views on this subject. They cannot be patronized out of existence.
          
          I personally would like a feature that I could use. Not one I am obliged to opt out of.

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             Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Careless reading, Will.
             
             What did the very first post say?
             
             Hubbers (who have opted in to the feature) to receive, review, and approve/deny suggested edits to one's own Hubs.
             
             Duh again.

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                Will Apseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Well, fortunately you are not designing this feature. I imagine those who are would like it to work. I don't imagine they simply want to force everyone to opt out. Which seems to be your preferred option.

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                1. 85

                   Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Now where (other than making it up) would you get that idea, Will?
                   
                   Is it because I used the words "opt out" a few times?  Did that confuse you because you don't understand that one can "opt out" through inaction as well as through action?  Yeah, I bet that was it, wasn't it?
                   
                   Yeah, there I go being "condescending" again.   Sorry about that, but it's really hard to avoid when presented with such nonsense.

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                      Will Apseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      This could have been an interesting thread but you have tried to bully everyone into silence and generated an atmosphere where no one wants to contribute.
                      
                      Go back and read the comments. Realise that people have a right to speak.

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                         Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         Yep.  And people have a right to correct those who are saying inaccurate things or spouting nonsense.

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       Will Apseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       My pages are being proofed/edited at present by an America woman. She is aware of the different ways that English is used around the world and that is very valuable.
       
       Only about 7 per cent of my readers are from the UK. About 80 percent are from the  US and I have asked her specifically to point out any phrases or grammar that will leave an American stranded.
       
       She does it very well and I am happy to make the changes.
       
       Having said that, I am not sure many people could do this well.
       
       Which is why I am dubious about random individuals arriving and offering corrections. I don't want my time or theirs being wasted.

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          Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Then you don't need this and should not opt into it.
          
          Duh!

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          Simone Smithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Dang, Will Apse! Props for getting your Hubs actively edited!!

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       Pamela N Redposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       We also have to take into consideration the evolution of writing. Today people tend to be a bit less formal. The most popular articles and blogs read like a casual conversation between friends.
       
       I'm not saying we should completely toss grammar rules out the window but there is a bit more lee way these days in bending the rules.

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          Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Absolutely.
          
          You have to consider your target audience also.  Tech audiences are interested in facts and will be far more forgiving of casual phrasing than if you were writing about English Literature (to take an extreme example).
          
          Some subjects are fine with a sprinkling of humor and the sophistication level will vary also.  A crude pun might be fine in some contexts but completely inappropriate somewhere else.
          
          My opinion has always been that the goal of writing is communication.  If your audience understands you, you have succeeded even if some other audience would think you are a hopelessly bad writer.
          
          Case in point:  Stephen King and Robert Heinlein.  Rabidly popular and yet both "bad" writers by many criteria.

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          WriteAngledposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          "People" might be "informal" (= grammatically incorrect); I chose not to go down that path, whether in writing or in speech.

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    5. 83

       Simone Smithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Ah, and I want to add one more response to WriteAngled's concerns- keep in mind not all these edits need be grammatical.
       
       Folks might suggest updates for:
       1. Factual errors
       2. Outdated statements (e.g. "I mean, Apple doesn't even have a tablet out yet!"
       2. Room for improvement (e.g. a scientist wants to suggest a reference to a relevant study that might improve a Hubber's argument)
       
       So it's not just about being a grammar maven. Nearly anyone could have something to contribute to a Hub that might improve it.

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          WriteAngledposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, I agree someone might want to contribute some useful information. In such a case, I do not see why an email would not be sufficient.
          
          It is the anonymous, automated aspect of this idea that bothers me most.

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             Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             We've already discussed why email is not sufficient.   
             
             And it is NOT anonymous.  It's for signed in users only.

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             1. 81

                WriteAngledposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I have no problem with email whatsoever and find it totally sufficient.
                
                Firstly, it is easy to control what email I receive. If I do not want to read messages from specific people or about specific topics, I can easily apply a filter so that all those messages are immediately deleted as they come in.
                
                Secondly, the fact it takes that bit of extra effort to send an email is a useful filter in itself. I dread to think how many gratuitous messages will be generated by having an instant messaging system built into every hub!

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                   Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Funny how some people  so strenuously object to an OPTIONAL feature..

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26. 60

    Mark Ewbieposted 12 years ago

    I am fortunate to already employ a professional editor, who checks all my work, including forum posts like this one. ed:try "such as this one" - it's less up yourself.
    
    We have enjoyed a long and happy relationship ed:you have and in some cases people find his little interjectives ed:what? more interesting than my writing itself.
    
    He is available for proofreading and bar mitzvahs.

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       paxwillposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       

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27. 73

    Reality Bytesposted 12 years ago

    Will we have the ability to allow specific hubbers to check our work, or once allowed does the whole community have access?  If we allow the community, will we be notified which hubber offered the advice?

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       Simone Smithposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Heya!
       1. You will only be able to open Hubs to suggested edits from the whole community, not to specific Hubbers
       2. You will know who suggested each edit
       3. You will be notified when someone has suggested an edit to a Hub you wrote

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          Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Thank you Simone. 

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