offense at the slightest issue? I remember my 8th grade teacher stating that oversensitivity and taking offense at the most insignficant minutiae is a sign of immatury. She further stated that people will tend to not respect and/or deride people who possess such characteristics. She maintained that it is the less sensitive and the hardy among us who survive and thrive in life. She had no tolerance for those who showed any type of weakness. I remembered her badgering a boy who cried when another boy engaged in a verbal banter with him.
Well.... Your 8th grade teacher was probably a hell of lot Younger and Less Mature Then!
Wouldn't you agree?
I remember reading somewhere in research archives that an 8th (or 9th) grade teacher was responsible for the general education and 'mind molding' of the Hitler Youth!
They were taught to fight on even after the battle had been lost!
Wouldn't dropping the bone and walking away have been a more 'adult' thing to do? After all, their leader had killed himself... the War was Lost!
Why chase a Scrawny Bone when you're surrounded by the best Pizza in the world?
My 8th grade teacher was a very tough Irish-American. She did not tolerate any nonsense or any form of softness. She was of the school that children should be tough and that sensitive children were totally unworthy of note. Her famous saying that that when you were teased, just let it roll off your back. Her pet peeve were children who got upset when they were teased, she told them to toughen up. My maternal aunt, who was the 3rd of 10 children, was of the same school. She did not tolerate children who cried at the sight of adversity. Her attitude was to shut up and bear it.
I find that very sad
But before you respond, appreciate three things...
Firstly... We are from Different cultures, so therefore must consider and defuse a wider range of 'secondary' issues relating to the primary issue. + my accent is really unique!
Secondly.. There are 2 mainstream Irish religions! Both came to the USA. Many 'Irish-Americans' as you call them supported and helped fund the IRA who realistically were (as Bombers) probably more significant than those who felled the twin towers - depending on how and from where that event is viewed from. I'm from Irish stock too, yet I find repugnance in your influential teacher's alleged statement.. "that sensitive children were totally unworthy of note."
I believe that some of the most creative souls in history would have been rejected by your 8th grade teacher... who clearly on that point alone, perhaps ruined a lot of potential, for the sake of influencing more pliable young minds! Lots of IRA recruits and funding was gained by that approach... learned I believe from those I mentioned earlier.. the process used with the HYM.. Mao used the same strategy, with the Red Guard kids. Surely, you understand the relevance of what I'm saying? I'm using a Scorpio will! Shseesh... 8th grade is such an impressionable age... here at least...
And Thirdly, You dodged my previous questions...
Don't worry... it appears your own sensitivity is being toyed with.. I believe... Enjoy YOUR DAY!
There are creative people who are not overly sensitive. While they are attuned to their inner being, they also possess the wherewithal to survive in the real world. People who are more sensitive tend to crumble under extreme or even tougher circumstances. It is NOT GOOD to be overly sensitive. Those who are overly sensitive and quick to take offense are perceived to be weak.
Wow.... Why are you being so defensive??
You have successfully provided us with a 'perception' that you yourself, were sensitive enough to appreciate what it is to apologize openly, take the compliment from the other party, and maintain your dignity and mana.. by at least letting go the bone!
You are completely avoiding the valid points that I made earlier... so here's another one
We are ALL UNIQUE.. if an 8th grade teacher influenced you so much, that you as an adult today, now chose to disagree with the fact that sensitivity is a rather important aspect of not only creativity, but also our uniqueness... then please, take up reading poetry! And... Yes there have been some great Irish writers who had their sensitivity bludgeoned out them and still wrote well... BUT .. you can not, from the perspective that you are using atm actually 'see' what I am saying... it requires a shall we say, more sensitive, non defensive and more realistic perspective...
Q .... Is the state of being, or establishing what denotes being 'Overly Sensitive' not subject to more criteria than an opinion or two in a HP forum, to gain a 'realistic' understanding for all parties, with which to debate merits of? Should we not make sure the horse is present, before we hitch the wagon?
There is proabably some justification to the teachers take on the subject., although it could be taken too far and result in a lack of empathy.
If would instill some emotional "toughness" in our kids, would we have far fewer child suicides? Most seem to come from some form of teasing - if it "rolled off their back" they wouldn't kill themselves over a little teasing or bullying.
Wilderness, there is a difference between teasing and bullying. While teasing is oftentimes done in good natured bantering, bullying is oftentimes more insidious and deadly. All in all, it is the overly sensitive child who is the subject of bullying. Bullies sense that and act accordingly. Bullies do not target those who are less sensitive and tougher as they know they are stronger and less vulnerable.
gm.....I "get" your question, because I do know you are referring to someone "in particular." I watched, as so many of us did, as we experienced the longest, most drawn-out "exit" in HubPages History.....So be it. I haven't checked in the last 2 days, but I believe it may be over, finally. The issues are dead.
gm, although you wrote an apology, the jury is still out as to it's sincerity. However, this has no significance, one way or the other, since the "subject," in all probability, did not see your apology.
Further, with all due respect, I'm afraid your "tough, Irish-American, 8th grade teacher", was a bit beyond ludicrous and abusive, in her attitude and subsequent treatment of a child who was reduced to tears, due to "bullying"........an offense, HIGHLY frowned upon. Surely, you are cognizant of this fact. In 2012, this inadequate "teacher" would be dismissed of her position.
Verbal abuse, ("badgering," YOUR word)....is in no way, an acceptable nor appropriate way in which to teach a child to be able to stand up, against adversity. Hopefully, intelligent adults can all agree that children younger than 16 or 17, are as yet, NOT fully matured, nor are they expected to be. I dare say that being bullied by a student and attacked as well, by a teacher, is as egregious as it gets.
Parents today, could easily have grounds for a law suit, due to unnecessary cruelty, by a teacher against a grade school-aged child.
The fact is, there are no "children," involved in the forum scenario being discussed. At least, not in relationship to chronological ages, as far as we know.
Again, The entire incident is over. The person who began the forum thread is on her way to other activities, on other sites. Walking away, when enough has been enough, is a true signal of maturity.
Best wishes & much peace to all, for a wonderful New Year/2013.......
Happy New Year, fpherj48. Wasn't thinking about that at all. That is over. The thing which inspired this was the 8th grade teachers, the first Irish and the second Irish-American, that I had. They are of the old school. The memories of these two teachers are clearly lucid in my mind. They were stern disciplinarians who do not believe that children who were overly sensitive were weak. The second teacher asserted that when one teased you, it is best to let it roll off your back. She gave a lecture regarding this in class.
It was de rigueur in her class, that students were old enough to be let to their own devices. She did the perfunctory teaching that was all. She stated that she was not there to look after the children. She stated that the children at that stage were old enough to look after themselves and/or if not, it is just too bad. She had no sympathy for those students who were more vulnerable. She actually admired the tougher students, stating that they are the ones who will survive in life. She even picked on the more vulnerable and sensitive students, particularly boys, herself. She teased one boy because he had to use the bathroom frequently, callling him a 1 year old child, causing the other children to laugh at him.
Note, this was a private school and many of the parents were in sympathy with the teachers' disciplinary methods. If the child got berated in school, he would receive similar treatment in kind at home. These 8th grade teachers paled in comparison with my 4th grade teacher who harangued us who were honor students if we dared to miss "the mark." It was nothing for her to bang our desks, telling us that we were no good for not making 100s. My 1st and 3rd grade teacher(one in the same) expected straight attention and no erasures. If a student erased, she would automatically fail the student. She did not tolerate sensitive children who she considered to be whiny and immature. She would slap such students and tell the parents to be tougher on them.
I had a coworker at my last job who told me that a nun would continuously harass and belittle her because she was extremely sensitive as a child. She is still sensitive and a beautiful person. This coworker also informed me that the nun would regularly use corporal punishment on her in order to toughen her up.
In my high school, an overly sensitive student was told to grow up as there was no room for such behavior in the school system. Also, in my first job in a tax agency, overly sensitive people crashed and were immediately weeded out. The tax environment required one to be tough and toughness was amply and aptly rewarded.
In many state civil service jobs, those who were more sensitive were eaten up alive while the toughest thrived and received promotions. One of the supervisors at my last job routinely harassed a man of prodigious intelligence and who had advanced degrees because of his overly sensitive nature. If someone teased him, he would routinely cry; however, the director laughed at and ignored him while the other workers mocked him. I have seen this behavior firsthand.
When this man was up for promotion, he was "promoted" with the expectation that he would fail which he did. He was subsequently demoted to his old position where he worked to this day. Many of the employees, except for me(until I retired) and two more people defended and took up for him, made fun of him constantly. They even called him stupid and one director called him stupid in a public meeting and stated whatever he said was of no consequence as he was a persona non grata.
Wishing you a Happy, Healthy and Productive New Year, gm.........It sounds very much as though you attended school in Nazi Germany. Those poor (sensitive) children. Hopefully, they have not grown to be serial killers, drug addicts or pedophiles.
When young children are brow-beaten, harassed and publicly insulted, for merely being who they are.......the resulting personality isn't always positive.
Fortunately, highly bright and sensitive educators of today, are well-informed and well-trained, to not only TEACH, but to approach each student, as the individual they are and focus on their strengths, while encouraging them to improve upon their weaknesses. And the world continues to go round....
Well didn't she have an excuse for herself? She said more about herself than she said about others.
This teacher believed in being tough. She had a habit of haranguing the more sensitive students in the class. She was not the only teacher who did this. The was the second 8th grade teacher. The first one, she was Irish, was tougher. She felt that American kids were too soft and verbally taught us to be tougher. She singled out a girl and told her that she was spoiled. This girl was the smartest student in the class. Of course, she told her mother about the issue. Her mother complained to the principal; however, my mother believed that the teacher was right in trying to toughen the girl up. You see my mother was one of 10 children and she had a harsh upbringing and was no nonsense.
The second teacher was of the school that children either had to swin or sink. In other words, be tough or be eaten alive. This was the type of teacher if she saw students fighting, she would not stop the fight. She believed in fighting to the deaf. Her pet peeve were the more vulnerable, quiet, and sensitive children. She called one child an idiot in front of the class and the student told me this. Yes, she treated the students roughly. She contended that we were not babies and we ought to grow up and face the real world at hand.
Gee, those were the days, weren't they? I find that sad.
I was one of those super-sensitive kids and being ridiculed or laughed at by adults didn't toughen me up in the slightest. All it did was drive me deeper into my shell and made me feel even more worthless.
There were teachers who helped me. They didn't pander to my sensitivity or encourage me to feel sorry for myself, but they didn't belittle me either. They acknowledged that I was upset but encouraged me to get over it and move on in a kindly way, not in a "stop snivelling and get on with it" way.
Yes but it was an undeniable fact of life. If you cried, you were publicly humiliated by such teachers and made to sit in a corner. One teacher said that children were too soft and there is no room for crying in the real world.
I'm not sure if I'm getting your point. Are you saying that was a good thing?
Not at all but it was commonplace in those days. Children had to toughen up or else. Those who endured became stronger and more resilient. They were better able to face the travails of life and are survivalists.
Can you explain what you believe happened to those who did not toughen up?
Shall we call them the 'or elses' for ease of understanding.
There are many threads and articles regarding children who are overly mollycoddled and overprotected. Such children, as adults, do not develop the prerequisite survival and judgement skills. Such children believe that life should be easy and devoid of adversity and other challenges. When such children encounter difficulties, they crumble. You see it schools and later in the workforce. Those teachers in my generation toughened up the children because they realized that the real world would not be easy. Those children had developed the necessary survival and judgment skills to persevere when things get tough. Life is not a bed of roses out there. Life is tough and sweet and one must be prepared for its toughness and adversities. Overly sensitive children must learn to toughen up and not wear their sensitivity on their sleeves.
How many hours have you been awake now? Or did you sleep?
Unfortunately I find that I cannot agree with you on that.
There is a difference between mollycoddling and kindness and understanding and accepting that the world is thank goodness full of different types of children and adults. Sensitive children are often better at empathy a quality that is vastly underestimated in the modern world.
It is one thing being sensitive and quite another being oversensitive. With oversensitive children and adults, one must walk around eggshells with them. Such children and adults cannot tolerate situations that are less than positive. For instance, the coworker I mentioned in my last job. He was so overly sensitive that he cried when people teased him. He reported this to the director who brushed him aside. The other employees saw his oversensitivity and attacked him like vultures to a carcass. His work life was not harmonious to say the least. Many of the coworkers considered him to be a baby and often joked about it in his presence. I can give you stories about the fate of oversensitive people in both school and the workplace. Let me say, it is not pretty.
I am so glad that my children never had to encounter "tough Irish teachers" that reinforced bullying in the classroom. If they had, I would have had no hesitation in reporting them and insisting that they never came near my kids ever again.
The best thing for an elementary school teacher to do in the case of a crying student is to neither console nor riducule the student, but to simply let the child have a moment to cry outside in the hallway. Don't reward the behavior with any type of response. If the teacher acknowledges it, the bully kids will run with it.
I thrive when people are caring in a non-superficial way. Hence why I'm such a wreck, since they rarely are. I certainly wasn't 'Ms-popularity' when I was in grade school. At this point in my life however, I don't care at all about the opinions of those little trogs. You know what has really affected me? The insensitivity of some teachers; the grown-up people who are supposed to care about children. Those non-positive interactions with them are ingrained in my mind with surprising clarity. I would have given the teacher you are describing hell. I would have probably reported her if I were in her class, unshamefully. I think that the 'toughen up' mindset might work for malleable people who can alter their personalities on a whim due to the bullying of people who don't deserve respect, but it doesn't work for people who think similarly to me. It just creates resentment, anger, and misanthropy. I can't help but think that such students 'benefiting' from a teacher such as what you describe will posses even more intolerable inhumane characteristics. But, at least they will 'thrive' because they will not be bogged down by the feelings of others. Have you seen 'There Will Be Blood'? Brilliant film. The pivotal character would have been a dream for your teacher.
Hopefully I will check it out soon. So busy right now. While I believe that our precious children should be treated with kindness, children who are oversensitive oftentimes fare very badly in life if they don't develop any armor. Those are the children when they are adults cannot defend themselves thus being taken advantage of. They are the children who crumble when there is the slightest difficulty and adversity. They are the ones who generally are unable to cope in life. Life does belong to the tough. In many environments, oversensitive people crack up mentally and emotionally. My mother, a registered nurse, has seen it many times. That is why she told me many tmes that one has to be tough and resilient in order to succeed in this world. Those who are oversensitive had a very hard time in life. Those are the people who commit suicide and/or suffer other types of mental crisis when things become difficult. Furthermore, people are not going to cater to the oversensitive individual. She/he must learn to adjust and thrive in the environment or sink.
Sounds like she has some issues herself. Everyone is different. An educator should be teaching others to appreciate one another's differences, not allowing others to bully others, which is what that situation you described was. She really shouldn't be teaching.
I do not think that this teacher had issues. She simply believed that everyone should be able to take care of themselves, pure and simple. She was not the type of teacher who interfered when students had squabbles with each other. She contended that students should learn how to defend themselves without her interference. She also believed that students should develop into independent people who can thrive in the world.
Is this a general question or are you thinking of any particular examples here?
Actually, I will answer your question. I've noticed that people who are touchy and oversensitive are nearly always of the "I can dish it out, but I can't take it" sort of mentality.
Let's say general question, Empress Felicity. There are people who are highly sensitive in that they cannot stand any type of challenges, hardships, and/or any other type of adversity. They are what my grandmother would call very thin skinned or as my tougher ex-classmates would call a crybaby. I had a first cousin like this.
Exactly, one has to be possess the maturity to both give and take regarding interfacing with other people. Either one learns this lesson in childhood or have a quite rude awakening later on in adulthood.
gm this is a subject I looked at intently as it seemed as offensiveness always stole someones joy in life, as they continued to live with negativity on a daily bases, not able to let go. Offense will bring down families, friends, careers and many other things if someone walks in an offensive mode. It is a terrible habit...I think it is much like unforgivness.
Wow... thank you... well said SD...
Must Buy one of Your Books with wisdom so well floated!
Happy New Year...
I agree with Sunny Day's answer and will say also that the overly sensitive one (whether they wear a mask of being tough, etc.) is stealing their own joy and preventing future joy with certain people just by exhibiting this behavior. Those who can't handle the slightest winds cannot weather any storms. No one wants to be around these types of people.
God bless overly sensitive people for providing normal people with never ending entertainment. I wish them a blessed new year filled with much taking of umbrage.
Am I the only one to find the actions of this "Irish-American teacher" sociopathic? I mean people come in all types and we need all those types to function in society. Sure, in adulthood sociopathy can give a real edge in the business world. You can make a lot of money if you don't care how many people you're screwing over in the process. On the other hand works of art rarely come from these empathy-less individuals.
Adults who are easily offended are just shattered individuals. They're not like that because they want to be, they're like that because something happened to them, likely in their formative years to make them like that. Bullying children for being sensitive is not a good thing to do - ever. Children are not little adults! It takes all of us at least 21 years for our brains to form completely. If you harangue or harass a child for being weak you're only going to inspire it hide its emotions, become cold, perhaps sociopathic. It's a perfect way to raise someone who will explode one day when they can't take it anymore. Isn't it better to celebrate our differences and uniqueness? Strength of character and confidence comes from knowing you're a valuable individual. Bullying a child does the exact opposite of this. It makes them feel like a pile of shit. You know how many stories I've heard of teachers calling students stupid because they're ADD, or hyper, or sensitive, or different, and having these kids believe well into their adult years they are in fact stupid when they are some of the brightest people around?? It's a great way to stunt someone and do permanent damage.
Another thread I wish dead.
Or one to play with extensively.
Surely there's a common sense middle ground between Gmwilliams' Nazi nun teachers at one extreme, and pandering to drama llamas at the other. For me, that middle ground would be showing compassion to the genuinely sensitive, while at the same time refusing to reward bad behaviour of whatever kind (be it flouncing, passive aggression, manipulation, etc. etc.)
That is kind of you but I need no life lessons I have seen enough to make my own judgments.
I really feel for overly sensitive people, as I do for extremely shy people. For most of them, being overly sensitive is a personality trait that they were born with. Like shyness, it can be extremely difficult to overcome and can take years to do so. Some are never able to overcome it. Life would certainly be easier for them if they had an "overly sensitive" switch they could just flip to the off position. It can be very difficult to change your natural disposition. I think it takes love and encouragement rather than someone yelling and belittling you.
I know a young girl who is extremely sensitive and a teacher like your 8th grade teacher would drive her over the edge and make her worse. This girl is beginning to blossom thanks to love and encouragement from her family and the help of a few especially caring teachers at her school.
I do understand why your teacher wanted to toughen up her students, because toughness can get people far in life -- however I think there are better ways to help overly sensitive people become stronger than by berating them and terrifying them.
Note that I am not referring to people who can dish it out but can't take the same treatment in return. Those types are a different story. Rather than toughness, those people just a need a few good doses of their own medicine. Unfortunately, not even that works if the person in question is a narcissist.
This brought to mind a Pennsylvania teacher who is now fired for stating that an introverted student had no personality. Many teachers did not understand students which are beyond the traditional parameters. Not only are oversensitive students and people are castigated and not understood, introverted students are oftentimes not understood by the teacher who views him/her as slow, backward, and socially inept. Many introverted children are held back by teachers, even though they are highly intelligent, because the latter believes that the child is developmentally retarded or slow.
There is something to be said about those who can hold their own like in a debate. The real issue is however elevating ourselves as individuals and or as a group makes for better communition.
If we are to live in a society we need to recognize and respect the differences in others. Some people are aggressive and some are not does that make one better than the other? I think not because we each have something to contribute which may be uniquely different but still significantly important.
Consider we do not talk to a six-year-old child the same way we do to a 16-year-old child.
Haven't see you in a while, SpanStar. Thank you for stopping by.
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