As the Sun Dies, Move the Earth.

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   qwarkposted 14 years ago

   Do ya think this is possible?
   In less that 2 billion years the surface of our earth will boil as the suns fuel diminishes.
   Could the earth be moved to a greater distance from the sun in an effort to save it?

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      ediggityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, there is a potential possibility to move the earth's orbit.  We would need to find an asteroid big enough, and adjust it's orbit to come close enough to earth.  Gravity interaction from the passing asteroid could then possibly adjust the earth's orbit further from the sun.

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         qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         TY Edig:
         This is the potential.
         Of course it would only be temporary but it could offer a way to gain time to be able to possibly create a form of energy that could replace that of a dissipating sun.

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            Paul Wingertposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Humans will surely be extinct by then.

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      Stories Inc.posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I wish it would start boiling a little now. I'm cold.

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   qwarkposted 14 years ago

   This is not a joke. Research is being done to determine if the idea is feasible.
   What do you think?

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      Diane Insideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not worried about 2 billion years from now, That is just to much to think about. 
      
      People seriously need to chill out.

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         qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Nor am I Diane:
         But there are those who do peer ahead to determine the fate of the human species and of this planet.
         Of course we are trying to survive today.
         We know that eveything ends. We know that our sun will die taking most of our solar system with it.
         There are those who want to give future generations a chance at life.
         Those people are truly "chilled out!" They are the thinkers that will produce progeny that will also "chill out" and provide a potential for the longevity of both the planet and human life.
         I'm glad  you are not worried about 2 billion yrs. What you should be worried about is that maybe there are too many people whose attitude emulates yours..."just too much to think about" and that will surely spell a quick end for mankind.
         but thanks for responding.

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            spookyfoxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I think what she's trying to say is that there's enough to worry about as it is, just thinking half a year ahead. If we want to survive we have to manage to do so now and solve the problems we have now and in the next decades. If we manage to do that the intelligence of the future human beings 2 billion years from now would be so far above ours that anything we might plan now would seem like child's play I think. I highly doubt we'll survive that long anyway.

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               alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Yes Quark !!!    You should stop putting up these light-hearted speculations for our amusement and go and write something more serious and important, maybe a hub to flog a dibbity widget toy for christmas ! 

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                  spookyfoxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I didn't mean to say his question has no value, but it just feels like asking a cat what to do about global warming or nuclear weapons. The question might be interesting but you can't expect to get much out of the answer.

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                  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Naw Alternate: "... a hub to flog a dibbity widget toy for christmas !" that would be a "hub" that you'd do very well writing. I wouldn't want to steel your thunder...:-)
                  I'll stick with those subjects that seem to interest the great thinkers of this planet. Those who seem to be concerned with the viability of the planet and of the human species.
                  "Flogging a dibbity widget" hasn't, as yet, gained their attention.
                  I wish ya luck with that "hub!" There's a possibility you may bring a new unthought of groundbreaking subject to bear that would change the destination of humanity!
                  My goodness! a "dibbity widget!" Your imagination knows no bounds!
                  I am so impressed!...:-)

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                     spookyfoxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I still can't see what is it you're trying to get with this question. Are you asking for a simple opinion? A yes or no answer? Or actual theories and formulas from an academic scientific point of view? If someone posted "Yes, it will be possible in the future because this and that" or "No, there is no chance because blahblahblah", do you have the knowledge to actually agree or rebute those arguments? (I'm not attacking you, just new around here and trying to know you ). I don't think being concerned is of any use if you're not or can't do anything about it, no matter how big and important the subject might be.

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                        qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Spookyfox:
                        Just a subject I thought might be of interest and might inspire thinkers among us to offer possibilities.
                        If we all think that to think about and discuss the future, regardless of whether or not we can do anything about it is pointless, then the future is pointless. We relegate ourselves to the level of 'dumb" animals and let nature take it's course.
                        Our species has arrived at this point in it's evolution because we have evolved an ability to think, plan and execute. Curiosity is innate in the human genetic programming. The need to know is a human trait. Communication is that character of humanity that has led us to become the dominant creature we are.
                        I happen to be one of those who think very pessimistically about our future as a species. If the human species could amalgamate its total potential into thoughts like the possibility of moving our planet to a safer spot in our solar system, it would very likely succeed as a species and create a viable future for those who could look back at we primitives and be proud of that which we were to immature to realize...but at least tried.
                        I do not apologize for asking questions about things my mind can conceive as being a possibility.
                        Modern man has been here for about 35 - 40k yrs...it has been in the last 100 that real progress has taken place. Man's imagination, if he does not prematurely destroy himself, has no bounds! If he can manage to survive the next 100 yrs, he will advance to the point of making todays man seem like CromMagnon.
                        I take no offense in your response. I am not joking when I pose a question.
                        Ty for responding....:-)

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                           spookyfoxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           I fully agree with what you're saying, and my point is not to say stop thinking and planning. My point is, before we worry about any such event, we have thousands of problems we know we'd need to solve to get there, and who knows how many will emerge that we can't even predict. If no one plans and thinks ahead there is no future, that is correct. But if we all worried about what will happen two thousand million years from now there is no future neither.

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                              qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Correct spooky:
                              Few of us think that far ahead. Thank goodness for those who dedicate their lives to it. Most of us are busy with everyday living and never consider the lives of those to come. That's normal. I bring these things up for "hubbers" to consider and maybe offer food-for-thought.
                              Isn't the "forum" supposed to be a place for folks to meet, chat, question and communicate?
                              There are those, I won't mention names, who, contrary to good sense and purpose, think that "geeks" like me have nothing of value to offer. I have no problem with that, but I will ask no question that isn't being considered by some of the greatest contemporary thinkers. If forum participants aren't interested, so be it. There are some participants who can project their thinking into the future and who have ideas to share about it.
                              Those are the "thinkers" I enjoy "hubbing" with.
                              Yesterdays science fiction has become todays reality.
                              Thanks for the response.

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                              joe83njposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              We can't even agree on what to do about global warming, even when we are starting to see changes as a result. The world needs to be proactive on some things instead of waiting when it is too late. Thats because governments only think about the short term solution. Not the long term. Its like buying a new heater. You may be better off paying more for a more efficient unit then paying for a cheaper less product. I know its difficult for the individual but governments need to help facilitate these changes.
                              
                              I think we will leave earth instead of moving the planet. We will create huge biodomes that will leave earth to search for a place that is more hospitable. These ships will be highly complex, and will mimic many of earth's ecosystem. Something like Halo where there are huge rings that rotate to make a simulated earth. This would include all out plants and animals all controled by the ship. This is a theroy but its cool to think about.

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            klarawieckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Being a pest has its benefits!
            
            

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               qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Klara:
               Unfortunately that little cartoon has it right! Pitiful!

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               alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                
               
               In my sbmarine warfare days I often wondered just how many things could go wrong with having just a red button, two keys and a computer between us and real armageddon !

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      alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Given the failure rate of most of humanities big projects that go off half cocked and usually too late I would hold onto your hat if htey try it.  
      
      I am sure it is technically feasible or will become so.  It has been the subject of sci fi a few times I think. Would be intersting times to live in.  What about the next move a bit later ?  when the sun eventually goes bang will they be able to organise it so we get propelled with the shock wave across the Universe to another sun, maybe it has been done before?

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   spookyfoxposted 14 years ago

   Is there any relevance to what anyone thinks might or might not be possible in 2 billion years?

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      Never_Forgetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hell no. It hurts my brain to even attempt to think about 2 billion years from now.

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   Never_Forgetposted 14 years ago

   2 billion years is an awful long time. I don't even think humans will still be living on earth in 2 billion years anyway. I think by that time we would already have moved to another planet or simply became extinct.
   
   It's almost impossible to even comprehend "2 billion years", let alone think about something that is so theoretical.
   
   If I had to answer I would assume that before the sun actually does this, there will probably be a long stretch of time where we know and "feel" it coming on. We would be slowly either adapting or finding a sufficient way to survive. It's not like it would happen over night.
   
   Who knows, by then, we could all be living under ground. The earth is filled with caves and we have only discovered a mere 1% of them. Hell, we may even have to kill a few shape-shifting reptoids in the process.
   
   ps. I know it sounds like it but I'm not trying to put you down, this is my honest response to the question (barring the reptoids quip). If it was less than a million years from now, my answer would be different. But 2 billion years is just an insane amount of time.

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      alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The effort to try and imagine 2 billion years is worth it - the inability to comprehend large distances and lengths of time is probably the main reason people turn to religion.  Not being able to 'feel' the trillions of generations of creatures makes the time between us and dinosaurs for instance unimagineable. This is why creationists can only 'imagine' a world 7000 years old !

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         Never_Forgetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         The very fact that people can't comprehend great lengths of time further proves why it is impossible to comprehend an omnipotent and omniscient creator...a famous religious catch 22 of sorts.

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            alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Or it is the reason why they have to invent a symbolic universe that is papered with god stuff - because they cannot see, or reason, their way. If everything out there is just black void to them - then wrapping yourself in a delusional bubble wrap of a universal father makes a certain amount of sense.  Religion is just fear of the unknown and so fear of the 'other'.

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            spookyfoxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I'm not sure you can actually prove that something is impossible.

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      Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I agree that 2 billion years is too difficult to try and comprehend.  Imagine if people only 100 years were told what things are like today - they wouldn't be able to imagine it.  People 1000 years ago even less. 
      
      I'm here to survive this short life I have, and hopefully pass on skills for my child to survive.  What happens after that is not my concern - why worry about something that I have absolutely no control over?
      
      Who knows - humans might have blown themselves up or become extinct by then?  They're doing a pretty good job of poisoning water etc.  Or maybe they will evolve into something unrecognisable from today?

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   Starfishfelixposted 14 years ago

   I'd assume that if we had the technology to move the Earth, it would be easier to just move to a different planet.  More and more it appears that there are a good number of extra solar planets, and likely quite a few in the Earth range (more or less, depending on the magnitude of the star).  Even at sub-light speeds a generation ship could eventually get to other systems.

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   qwarkposted 14 years ago

   I'm gonna hit the sac...past midnite. G'nite all. ttyl...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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      alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank godness for that - some quiet and peace at last

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         qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         G'mornin' alt poet....:-)

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   qwarkposted 14 years ago

   Well, I guess that does it for this subject.
   I'll think of sumthin' else...no doubt about it...lol

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      spookyfoxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I haven't really addressed the question per se, so I will say what I really think about it. First of all, if we had the technology to move it, do we know at what rate will the Sun's temperature rise? If so, we'd need to calculate at what speed the Earth should be moved, if we can even reach the speed we need in order not to let the temperatures too high, we'd still need to control the speed very precisely if we don't want to go too far away too soon and freeze. If the speed of this is too high, how will that affect the Moon? Can it come along with us? And at the same distance? If not, what would be the consecuences of that? The Moon is getting further from the Earth every year. Theoretically it'll be seen 30% smaller in 2 billion years. Would that bring problems as well?

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         qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hi Spooky:
         You are 100% correct!
         All the questions you asked have already been calculated. I know the moon is leaving us at the rate of about 1 inch per year.
         I haven't studied, yet, the potential effects of taking the moon with us. of course there would be massive effects on human life and most likely of the diastrophic changes in the earths surface.
         If the human species survives, say the next 50 yrs, there will be efforts to begin processes to either leave this planet in search of of other, nearby, inhabitable cosmic bodies...or...to move the earth slowly outward into a new orbit.
         Problem is, it would be impermanent. As the sun expands and evaporates all closer planets, we will, out of necessity have to have been working on other methods of escape.
         In a couple billion years, there will be no life existing on earth. So, if man succeeds as a species he MUST be thinking NOW in terms of saving the planet and our species.
         Thank goodness there are those giant intellects who understand this and are devoting their lives to understanding and making meaning of surrounding realities.
         Thanks for becoming a follower...:-)

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   peterxdunnposted 14 years ago

   If it were possible to move Planet Earth out to a new orbit - how would we prevent the oceans from sloshing about all over the place and drowning humanity?
   
   Are we going to push the orbit out beyond Mars into the asteroid belt where we would be bombarded with rocks the size of Manhattan Island travelling at tens of thousands of miles an hour?
   
   Now try this one on for size. At some point in the distant future, also a few billion years from now, the Miky Way Galaxy is going to collide with the Andromeda Galaxy. Is anyone going to suggest that we manoeuvre an entire galaxy to avoid the collision?
   
   Get real.
   
   Mankind's future destiny lies out there among the stars. Lets figure out a way of getting there - then we can live wherever we like.

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      Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      IF we could move the earth (Which we can't) we could merely push the other planets into the sun to stoke the fires.

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         peterxdunnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         How would that help.

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      qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      peterxdunn:
      Believe it or not, the posibility is being researched.
      There will be no life on this planet when and if Andromeda collides with the Milkyway.
      Human life can, only last for another billion yrs. if it should, the earth will be warming at a rapid rate because the sun will be running out of fuel and her expansion will turn the surface of earth into a molten mass. We will have had to escape or move the earth to a location much further away from the sun...which in theory, can be done, but eventually it will be vaporized.
      We are going to be here for a very short time in a geological sense.

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   Doc Snowposted 14 years ago

   I'd say we need to solve the immediate problem, which is to figure out how we can support 6-10 billion humans with decreasing fossil fuel resources, a deteriorating global climate and a scientifically dysfunctional political process.
   
   If we can get that done, by all means, let's plan for the long, long, long term.
   
   After all, a billion years is more than a thousand time longer than humans have existed so far, and a sizable chunk of the total history of life on Earth.
   
   By the way, according to Wikipedia (and my rather fallible memory), the Sun should have more than another billion years on the "main sequence" before it goes into its terminal red giant phase--about 5 billion, in fact.  So some of us can breathe a *little* easier!
   
   ;-)

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      qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Doc:
      "I'd say we need to solve the immediate problem, which is to figure out how we can support 6-10 billion humans with decreasing fossil fuel resources, a deteriorating global climate and a scientifically dysfunctional political process."
      
      We can't! I don't see any possibility.
      
      If you've read any of my "hubs," I prophesize a massive catastrophe within the next 50 yrs that will reduce the the human population dramatically.
      We won't become extinct, but there will be a very long period of time during which surviving man will mutate into a form of life that would be unrecognizable to contemporary man.
      There will be those who will foresee this pogrom and will take refuge underground. They will, eventually, emerge and deal with the "strange new world" that confronts them.
      Evolution will shuffle the deck and deal...again!
      Qwark

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    Tusitala Tomposted 14 years ago

    I guess if we could find a long enough lever we could hook it over one of those 'heavy' stars and heave it a bit.   Wadja reckon?

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       Doc Snowposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Shouldn't be hard to find. . . it'll really stick out.

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    libby101aposted 14 years ago

    I recently did a hub on this. If the sun dies we are doomed! Our planet, if moved or not, would turn into an ice planet!!! It doesn't matter if we move away from the sun... we need the sun! Unless we can find a way to keep the entire earth from freezing due to the loss of our "heat" from the sun!
    
    So... if we move the earth or not... we would be doomed!!!

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    logic,commonsenseposted 13 years ago

    I believe before we can move the Earth we are required by the EPA, to have an environmental impact statement and the Democrats require that we have the Earth Movers union specified as the only source of earth moving!

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    DavidSimmons1776posted 9 years ago

    what is it about

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