Does This Make You Feel Proud America?

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   ryankettposted 13 years ago

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGi8jr_ … re=related

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      nikki1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I am proud of the men and women who rep.s our America, only. That was absolutely offensive. They should be arrested, in my opinion.
      I just reported the video.

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         Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Reported the video for what? For telling truth?

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         ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Reported the video for what?
         
         If you feel that the video is offensive, then surely it is better for other people to feel offended too.

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   ryankettposted 13 years ago

   How about this one?
   
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TQdgyEa … re=related

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   mrpopoposted 13 years ago

   Disgusting.

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   Mishaposted 13 years ago

   I take it Brits behaved better on the territories they captured during last several hundred years, right Ryan?

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      ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What about during my lifetime?
      
      The British people did not support the Iraq war, the American people did.
      
      I have yet to see a British video like this, remember that we are in Iraq and Afghanistan too.
      
      There are hundreds of them, atrocious.
      
      They should be locked up for war crimes.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Which war would like to talk about Ryan, the first one or the second one?
         
         You want to talk about the 'first' one? Wasn't America helping to defend Kuwait against Iraq?
         
         The second one was not backed by the American public, until the Towers were hit. After the towers were hit, the American public couldn't do much to stop the government.
         
         Just in case you have forgotten- America is presently under a Democratic Republic which will defend itself when attacked.
         
         If you had a tragedy like the Towers occur, I'm sure you would be talking about it in a different manner. But, instead all you want to do is complain about what America has done in it's past and make a mockery of it's right to defend itself.

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            ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Define a "tragedy like the Towers". America were not the only country hit by terror attacks, so were much of Europe.
            
            It is easy to look at this with a bit of perspective. If a few crazy American dudes completely unaffiliated with the American government had decided to bring down a tower in Beijing, would you subseqeuently expect China to drop bombs on America?
            
            Saddam Hussain was a mild tyrant who had caused very little by the way of external problems, was not affiliated in any great depth to Bin Laden or Al Quada, your comment is completely irrelevant.
            
            You seem to be confusing your own war in Iraq with your war in Afghanistan. We are talking about Iraq.
            
            Iraq has absolutely nothing to do with the attack on the Twin Towers and everything to do with oil. Coalition forces have killed more Iraqi citizens since their occupation than Hussain had in his entire reign.
            
            There is no justification, Iraq was an illegal war.

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         Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I think you are being a bit too kind both to British people and British Army. But then it is understandable.

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            ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Misha, if the soldiers in the videos were British I would be condemning them too. I am sure that we have idiots in our ranks too.
            
            But they aren't, they are American. Hence the reason I asked Americans whether it makes them feel proud, because it would not make me feel proud to see British troops behave in this manner. I genuinely stumbled across this video on YouTube, and my post was as a result of genuine shock.

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               Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I'm sure you would. I would rather see someone of our American friends posting this though, cause now even the best of them - as you see - are getting defensive...

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                  ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  The British are fighting alongside the Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan. Their actions are our actions, and vice versa, to the rest of the world who see the UK and USA as one and the same.
                  
                  It frustrates me because a majority of the UK population did not want us to get involved, whilst our government decided to anyway.
                  
                  If I categorically state that I am ashamed with the UKs involvement in the Iraqi war, then does that make things better? Because I am.
                  
                  The Afghan war is a different question. Whilst they both probably have the same underlying objective, money, there is at least a possibility that the Afghan people will somebody benefit from the collapse of The Taliban and the introduction of a truly democratic society - if the collapse of The Taliban ever happens.
                  
                  The majority of Iraqi people are much worse off now than they were before the arrival of coalition forces - including both British and American. That is a fact too, there were social services in place under Hussain; now there are slums and shanty towns.
                  
                  I would like to place on record that I am firmly against the actions in Iraq, not necessarily against the action in Afghanistan.

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                     Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Oh Ryan, you are touching on so many hot topics - I won't go there, sorry. I am really not in the mood for a long and exhaustive forum battle that is about to erupt. Count me out

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   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   Always nice to see that people love to dwell on negativity. How sad.

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      ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      No not dwelling on negativity, just genuinely shocked at the disgusting behaviour. No wonder The Taliban have no problem recruiting civilians to fight the coalition.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Taliban do not "recruit", they force people into their army. You should get your story straight before you attempt to understand it.

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            Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Ray, looks like the fact of you being American somehow blurs your vision in this case. Usually you sound more reasonable

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Actually Misha, I'm not blurring anything. But, thank you for your input.

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            thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            The taliban do recruit, since in many countries they are still an official form of government which many people of their respective countries join.  This is normally to preserve values they have held for thousands of years.

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      mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Ironically, that's a negative comment Cagsil

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         nikki1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         well said

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Well, what did you expect from a negative thread. You surely couldn't expect positiveness?

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            nikki1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            yeah

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            mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            The point is you're dwelling on negativity. If you knew this was a negative thread, you didn't have to dwell in it.
            
            Either way, not dwelling on negativity at all is just as wrong as dwelling on it too much. Have some balance.

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               Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Excuse you? Read the OP and Title of this thread and as an American, you rather I sat out of the conversation.
               
               You're sad too, like to OP and the title.
               I have my balance, I find it rude to put in on the people and NOT the government. Got it? Good!

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                  watchyaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  He's not putting it on the people. He's asking the people. You Americans. So, Do you feel proud or not ?. That's all this thread is about.

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                     Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes, I am a proud American citizen. I thought that was pretty positive from my remarks. However, I am not always proud of the actions of others. Like the "INTENT" behind this thread to smear all American citizens.
                     
                     If you didn't get that, I would suggest you learn how to read again.

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                        mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        There's no intent to smear Americans at all. Stop being so defensive man...

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                           ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Thank you. And there sincerely wasn't.
                           
                           If I really had such a hatred for Americans that I would stoop to such levels I would not bother going there every other year.
                           
                           American culture is engrained into British society, our TV shows are American, our fast food joints are American, our Coffee shops are American.
                           
                           It seems to be ok for me to spend my money on American products every day, but condemned for me to discuss anything which may paint a few Americans in a negative light?

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                              Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Ah, you're feeling over run by Americans, that explains this tirade. You should buy British and support British Culture whenever possible... I buy American whenever I can and support American film and culture whenever possible.

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                                 watchyaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 I buy whatever I please. It doesn't matter where it comes from.
                                 I definitely don't buy what that soldiers are selling. Do you ?

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                        ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        There was no intent, you imagined that bit. I asked a simple question, and was denied a simple answer.
                        
                        Either you are proud of those videos or you are not. The opposite of proud is ashamed. I did not ask you whether or not you are proud to be an American, although that could have been answered with a simple 'yes' or 'no' too.

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                        watchyaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Maybe now it's the right  time for you to get  off your horse, cagsil.
                        You're not making sense. I know how to read. It seems you don't.
                        And it's not the first time either.

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                     ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Indeed, and I would have expected the simple answer to my simple question to be "no, I am not proud of those videos". Instead I am yet again percieved as anti-American by over sensitive souls.
                     
                     The videos should appear offensive to both Americans and non-Americans. Obviously not.

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                        Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I didn't find the video worth watching all the way through, because the intent behind it was to drudge up past garbage and directly addresses American GOVERNMENT action, not the action of the people themselves.
                        
                        Thus, smearing all citizens. And, people wonder why ignorance is bliss.

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                        watchyaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I think they're very offensive. I couldn't finish watching either of them ! Because of the shame and rage to realise These kind of beasts are human as well.
                        No offense to the beasts.

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                     myownworldposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes, I don't get why people are not allowed to question things without someone or the other getting all defensive about it and attacking you. If you don't like a thread, don't get involved, but at least let others talk.

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                  mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Don't take it the wrong way Cagsil. I was merely demonstrating that you yourself are being negative by pitying those who are talking about tragic things. Whether it's appropriate or not is a different question.

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   myownworldposted 13 years ago

   I think it's the laughter and giggles that got to me in both. I must have missed the joke! 

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      watchyaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Shameful!

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   waynetposted 13 years ago

   UK as a nation always seems to want to follow what the Americans do, fighting other peoples wars is what is getting our british troops killed, it's up to all the rest of the worlds forces that are involved in this ongoing war to try and bring it to a close, I know wars can go on forever, but this is just madness!
   
   The video showed some truth!!

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   Tom Cornettposted 13 years ago

   Does this mean you will refuse American dollars from American clicks and customers you've earned on American based HubPages?

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      ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not quite sure how AdSense relates to the Iraqi war or the unacceptable behaviour of some American soldiers, other than that a proportion of their corporate taxes probably helped to fund it.
      
      I would like to point out that Google is a global business however, with global shareholders, global customers, global traffic, global affiliates and that my AdSense payment enters my account in GBP via an Irish bank account - probably administered by the headquarters of their European subsidiary in Ireland. Where my cousin has worked for the past five years.
      
      I am a shareholder in Google for example, I am also a previous customer of Adwords, and people on my street undoubtedly click AdSense ads. The ads that I see on a daily basis are almost exclusively British companies, buying British clicks, with the Google profits then being distributed to global investors.
      
      My Amazon.com earnings, on the other hand, are almost exlusively American or Canadian dollars. And no I will not be sending back my dollars, as I have spent at least ten times more money in Las Vegas than I have ever earnt from Google or Amazon affiliates.
      
      I hope that answers your highly irrelevant question.

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         Tom Cornettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         No more irrelevant than,"Does this make you feel proud America?"

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   myownworldposted 13 years ago

   ......And just wait before some of them spill over from that flotilla thread and start attacking everyone of being 'anti-american'/leftists... etc.etc...

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    luvpassionposted 13 years ago

    This one makes me proud...
    
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1edwm6lF … ature=fvsr

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       ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Well there is no reason for that one to make you feel ashamed.

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          luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Sorry guess I was showing the wrong side...my bad.

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    mega1posted 13 years ago

    I guess there's not much any of us can do about some of the bums who serve over there - except to speak up about it - and I am glad you have spoken up about it.  My friends who went to Nam told me horror stories about stuff that soldiers did there - it had a terrible affect on their lives - unfortunately all people reap the bad karma these soldiers create.  The Delai Lama facebooked a hopeful statement about how it seems that compassion is growing on our planet and said this "At the same time, every individual is responsible to help guide our global family in the right direction. Good wishes alone are not enough; we have to take responsibility. Large human movements spring from individual human initiatives."
    
    So when we as individuals speak up wherever we are to deplore actions such as these soldiers did in Iraq we are acting responsibly  - good for you ryankett, and thank you!

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    Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

    What a stupid title.
    
    There are good and bad things about every country. Americans have enough intelligence to be proud of the good and question the bad. As has been done about many recent events.
    
    There is often a disconnect between the Federal power and local power in a country the size of the United States.  Protests over the war and policies have been well publicized.
    
    You seem to think you just discoveed these issues.
    
    Quite frankly I think that you would have more productive things on your plate then trying to force people into an absurdist position. You're not in college anymore.

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       ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I cannot see anything wrong with the title whatsoever Nelle, I intended to create a debate and the thread is posted in the 'United States' sub forum of the Political & Social Issues forum. The videos feature the American military, and hence do not bear any direct relevance whatsoever to citizens of any other country. Perhaps it would have been more appropriate if I had used the word 'Americans'?
       
       If Americans have enough intelligience to question the bad, then why are you all refusing outright to condemn the behaviour of some of your troops? Is this some sort of pride thing that British people do not understand.
       
       A few months ago a British student from my former University was caught on camera urinating over a reef laid to commemorate dead British soldiers from WWI and WWII. I was thoroughly ashamed that not only did he paint my generation in a bad light through disrepect for his forefathers who died for his liberty. Those images made me feel ashamed as a British citizen, as a student at that university.
       
       Why therefore can Americans not feel shame towards fellow Americans? Those soldiers involved in the videos have done nothing but help give fellow comrades a bad name, painting the sensible majority in a bad light. All I was asking is whether those videos make Americans feel proud.
       
       If you posted a video of British soldier participating in such activities I would have said "yes, they bring shame on themselves, their regiment and their families". Apparently you and others instead consider this to be appropriate behavior?
       
       Here is a video of British soldiers battering Iraqi teens senseless for no reason whilst other sadistic soldiers cheer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUIJpTUa … verified=1
       
       This behaviour makes me feel ashamed. As a British man with friends in the British military, with grandfathers who served on the front line.
       
       Why can I identify and state that, yet Americans seem unwilling to? Wasn't so hard for me?
       
       I stick by my point. There was no intention to inflame, I don't exactly have Americans on speed dial, I will never mentioned your country again if it makes you all happy.
       
       I still don't get it though.

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    mega1posted 13 years ago

    whether I feel proud or not has nothing to do with those videos and what some soldiers (and non-soldiers too) do just because they can get away with it and are hopelessly low-class and dumb and bully-ish.  We must speak up about their poor behavior and if we can, make it easier for those who witness these horrors to report it so those bullies will get punished.
    
    Likewise, whether I feel proud to be an American is also moot - I have always thought that patriotism is a useless emotional display that doesn't make any nation better.  Being a good citizen has nothing to do with waving a flag and being "proud" - being a good citizen is sometimes speaking up about injustice and all the time behaving responsibly. Patriotism can actually be dangerous because it is an emotional display that sometimes encourages unintelligent people to act like they own the entire planet and are better than others.
    
    So, once again, ryan - thanks for sharing these videos and opening some eyes, maybe.

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       mrpopoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Well said, Mega.

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    mrpopoposted 13 years ago

    Ryan in the future just ask "Does this make you proud humanity". Then we won't get so many people complaining about smearing their nation.
    
    This is something that should make all of us bow in shame, and the point some of you are focusing on is whether it smears your good name.
    
    You're right, it is sad.

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    thisisoliposted 13 years ago

    To be honest I am pretty sure their are British soldiers acting like this too, I think I remember a news story about it a while back, I would need to find the source though.
    
    While America does have a fairly bad history and reputation for creating wars for it's own gain, Britain has exploited many countries too in it's past.
    
    The real question is should America be creating further wars while the rest of the World is settling.

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       ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Yes they have Oli, and I would not hesitate to denounce and condemn their behaviour as soon as I saw evidence of it. That is my point I guess. This is no smear on America, this is a smear on a select group of American troops who happen to feature on YouTube - an American site.

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       YankeeDoodle2010posted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Britain has the worst record, they used to be the British Empire, now they are the home of any vagrant or immigrant.

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          ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          13% of the American population of American in 2009 were foreign born socky. That is a lot more than the UK.

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    YankeeDoodle2010posted 13 years ago

    LOL Britain, land of the thief. For years they have stole land across the world, broke human rights and tortured throughout the world. Now a nation of immigrants they are no longer British but multi cultural, at least I am American.

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       ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I am proud of British multiculturism. Although I would be interested to know what you define as 'multicultural' as I certainly saw plenty of different cultures in New York.

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          watchyaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          HE's trying to make this thread close. Don't answer

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          YankeeDoodle2010posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Britain is dying on its knees, unlike America Britain can't sustain the vast hoardes of immigrants flooding into the country to milk it's welfare state, unlike America Britain is dying a death.

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             ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             That just goes to show that you know nothing about the current British goverment and their welfare and immigration policies.

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             watchyaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             How can you die a death ?

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    Norah Caseyposted 13 years ago

    Lets try to keep this thread civil, folks. If someone's statement makes you angry, try to consider what will be accomplished by posting a vitriolic or condescending response.

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       watchyaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       What can we expect from somebody that signed up 8 min ago, just to say this kind of things hidding behind a sockpuppet !

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          luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Sorry norah...it's clear this person intended to show American Servicemen behaving badly thus lumping all American service men and women in with them...I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way. Clearly insulting.
          
          Perhaps if the title had been different, the answer should be obvious.

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             ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             No, that is your perception of my thread. I am British, I just posted a video of British troops battering Iraqi teens. I guess that there are clear differences between Americans and British in some respects, you all seem a little too sensitive. I will try and remember to keep all of my posts sweet and rosey. But its fine, everything is great, America can do no wrong, America is great, unemployment is low, people are happy, America will never lose a war. Will that do?

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    ryankettposted 13 years ago

    KILL THREAD

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       YankeeDoodle2010posted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Truth hurts, doesn't it.
       
       The British have the worst record of torture, get a reality check Ryan.
       
       British doesn't exist anymore, you are a nation of nomads.

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          Uninvited Writerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Play nice TM. I could be wrong but it sounds like you.

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             myownworldposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             hmm... I could guess a few others too... !

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          watchyaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Yeah ! You should know about it ! LOL

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    rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

    I didn't watch the videos since you've basically addressed the content. there are certainly times when I am ashamed of other American's behavior, but that doesn't take away my own personal pride to be an American. every country has idiots.
    not sure why anyone would be proud of uncivil behavior in fellow countrymen.

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       ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       But I wasn't asking whether Americans feel proud to be American, the answer to that would be too obvious, I don't know anybody who does not possess at least a little pride in their country of origin. I asked whether America is proud of two YouTube videos, not whether America is proud of itself, there is a clear and concise difference between the two questions.
       
       Am I proud to be British? Yes. Am I proud of the video showing senseless violence by British Troops? No I am ashamed. There you go, there is the difference.
       
       If I ask one specific simple question, I do not need answers to other imagined ones.

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    Uninvited Writerposted 13 years ago

    I do know that troops from other countries have done despicible things. There was a big controversy with Canadian troops in Somalia in I think the 90s.
    Regardless of the country, behaviour like this should be roundly condemned.

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