What is the purpose of religion?
KCC Big Country, my heartfelt condolesences. My gosh, I am so sorry for your loss.
Teresa, for me religion and spirituality are two different things. Spirituality is the journey we take in this life and Religion is our foundation, or guide, or reference point. That is how I think Atheists fit into this great mixing pot of people. I think compassion goes hand in hand with enlightenment. Compassion leads to understanding. Tolerance is the by-product of being an enlightened, compassionate person.
Great forum issue! Thanks for the post!
KCC- you have my heart...
JulieI don't think you can lump religion and spirituality together. They are very different animals.
There is no purpose to spirituality, unless you consider internal awareness a purpose.
Religion is a political tool for controlling the ignorant masses. It works well with a lack of education.
As for being open-minded and un-biased.
These do not go hand in hand with religion. What this means is, "Ready to believe in an invisible magical super being that has a set of rules for you......... And I know what those rules are." 
And in this one's case. I suspect that includes a willingness to accept that you are a second class person because you possess ovaries.You do not have to belong to any religion to be spiritual, but every religion is spiritual.You can directly communicate with god without the help of any prophet or religion.God is within you as well as outside of you.
RELIGIONS
The entire Buddhist monk's life is but a preparation,
For his Death Point or moment of separation.
The Jains have santhara,
Quitting life consciously to join with the paramatma.
Hindus go into Samadhi,
Where there is no Congress, Shiv Sena , BJP or Samajwadi.
The Christian merges with the Holy Spirit,
Peace, no more desperate.
The Sufi mystic to become one,
Dances, twirls, prays, trances to get the job done.
Aghora means Illumined with Light,
Longing for Shiva in whom they delight.
Shamanism or the Art of Ecstasy,
The ultimate being one with the super entity.
There is no need to change your faith,
And on your old religion lay a wreath.There have been many masters,different groups of people follow different masters which become a religion but the essence is the same.God exists ,he is inside you and you can come in contact with him.
there must be some criteria to measure why every one is happy with their Religion-this is attachment to ones religion and the comfort of ones ego being part of a big group.
You must have forgotten all those religious people who tell you that you are going to hell because you do not follow their religion.
Theoretically, they are the same, but in reality, not so. Why would a religion need to build an edifice like a church?
My pleasure. I wasted many years trying to do what you are doing. Unfortunately, people "use scripture to interpret scripture," which pretty much means they will read exactly what they have already decided is what you (not they) should be doing, and you will discover there is only one appropriate box. Not that I am a big fan of labels, but.........
I think you know mine.
OMG! I knew it! LOL
Don't ask me to explain that....Explain.............
Just a theory I had with you.
Proved right.Well, that is not much of an explanation.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Religionspoem
Yes tolerance goes hand in hand with religions.Enlightenment teaches you there is one god called by different names and the essence of all religions are identical.And to get back on track.
A quick read through this thread clearly demonstrates the purpose of religion. Whether intentional or not religion appeals to those ready to believe nonsense - and defend it and promote it to the exclusion of rational discussion.
Invariably, this is where religious discussions end up.
Frustration on the part of those who choose to believe when they cannot persuade others that they need to believe the same stuff. At the same time demonstrating those traits that they claim to have left behind.
Defensiveness of those who refuse to be scared into a belief that they are worthless and what they need to do is jump on the religion bandwagon to be saved.
And lots of mis-communications.
I do not think spirituality has anything to do with religion, because once you have had a genuine spiritual experience, that last thing you want is religion. Religion is for those who want a spiritual experience, and think that some one else can give it to them, or that it comes from outside themselves. Magically."I do not think spirituality has anything to do with religion, because once you have had a genuine spiritual experience, that last thing you want is religion. Religion is for those who want a spiritual experience, and think that some one else can give it to them, or that it comes from outside themselves. Magically."
EXACTLY!!!!! Those who haven't had that kind of "real" experience will undoubtedly call it Satan!because once you have had a genuine spiritual experience, that last thing you want is religion.-
True you go beyond and don't need to follow any religion once you have had a spiritual experience.Religions are to be used as stepping stones.Thank you Lady Guinevere :- thats anyone who doesn't understand that experience will call it Satanic in some form or another- thats their lack of understanding.
Its the way the world is and has been .Jesus was called a lunatic and killed.Zaratushtra the first prophet was jailed for 14 years.
He was released as he saved the kings favorite horse from an ailment.If not for the horse a great prophet may have rotted in jail and never been recognized.
Please offer proof. Something concrete would be nice please. I would take absolutely anything that does not involve me taking some one's word for it. By implication, you have something provable. So prove it.
You speak for god
Come on - of course you are being called close minded. Because that is what you are doing. You have god's word. Which was written by men in a book. You must surely be aware of the numerous additions and alterations made to the unadulterated word of god over the years? Or not. You think this book has the word of god in it. And therefore you are not open to listening to anything else. This is close minded.
You are pretty rude too. You still owe me several replies from our last conversation. Is that what god told you to do? Be rude to those who do not share your fairy tail beliefs?Any time jouneyman.
Wat a jouneyman anyway?
- RFoxposted 15 years ago
0See, I always wonder what is considered 'religion'.
I am a Buddhist. I follow the Dharma, I don't try to understand how we got here just that we're here. I don't believe God controls the universe, however, I don't discount the existence of heavenly beings.
We are. Life is. It ends. Then it begins again.
Some people consider Buddhism a religion, others a philosophy....does it matter...I don't believe so.
I think too many people get hung up on labels like 'Christian vs Atheist' etc.
I label myself a Buddhist because I do follow the teachings of the Buddha, it is therefore logical to say I am a Buddhist, however, does this mean I should be closed to other teachings? no, does this make me religious? I don't know.
I do know that personally I was born with certain strong beliefs about the world.
After exploring many different religious and scientific paths I discovered the teachings that brought me the most peace and understanding and that brought out the most compassion and empathy in me were the teachings of the Buddha.
When I hear such stories of loss and sadness as KCC Big Country's and after experiencing death and sadness in my own life, I found myself rejecting the standard western religious paths also. They do not provide the kind of comfort for me that they do for others (such as Christians.)
For me hearing the Buddha's words: 'Life contains suffering', 'Existence is impermanent' etc....the simplicity and honesty of it...that's what brings me peace. It helps me to be a happier person who can live in the moment...because all we have with loved ones sometimes are moments...knowing deeply, how short and fragile life is allows me to not waste any precious minutes being angry, holding grudges, feeling hatred etc. It is a balance to the darkness inside me, the human (animal) inside me.
So I feel that any belief system that helps someone create lasting peace, compassion and joy in their life is a great thing. This belief system does not necessarily have to be grounded in a religion....whatever that term really means...
For KCC Big Country:
It is a great thing that you can write openly about your loss and how this altered your belief system. It is a very difficult thing to choose to begin to live again after losing a child. Your courage is inspiring.
If you haven't already read the parable of the Mustard Seed you might enjoy it (don't worry I'm not trying to convert you! I just think it's a great story.)
A fellow Hubber has a hub on it: http://hubpages.com/hub/buddhistblog
So that's my take on religion. Religion's purpose? it's the reasoning behind allsorts of loonies doing stupid things like blwoing themselves up for nothing.
It's a way to separate us all, so that we group together at choose to disagree with one another and eventually start a war because group A doesn't believe in the same thing as group B.
It's happened all the way through history.- pgrundyposted 15 years ago0
I think religion starts out as a sincere desire to know what life is, why we're here, why stuff happens that seems to make no sense, and so on. But shortly thereafter religion usually ossifies into a political system that is basically used to control other people and win arguments even when you're wrong.
The elephant in the room is that not one of us knows what life is, who we are, and why we are here. People will tell you they have the answer. They do not. The heart of life itself is mystery, and people who can't abide mystery flock to religion. It isn't always a bad thing though. Like they say, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so we mostly hear from the squeakiest wheels who give religion a bad name. Lots of people quietly believe whatever they believe and leave others alone, which I think is the humane and courteous way to behave. If religion gives those people comfort, who am I to take it away? It's not my business or my job to do that.
I never met a religion I that didn't offer something I admired very much, and I never tried to join one I didn't soon get kicked out of. You can't think for yourself once you join. They all ask you to leave if you do that. There's always a "man behind the curtain question" that is prohibited, and I figure out what that question is really fast, and as soon as I do, it's the only question I want to ask. I'm perverse that way. I always think, why do we have brains if we aren't supposed to use them?
So it's not for me. But if I had to choose a religion for myself, like, at gunpoint or something, I guess I'd go with Buddhism. There's no "big guy in the sky" with that religion, and they don't waste a lot of time with questions no one can answer anyway. Also I think the emphasis on compassion is exactly right. - jgrimes331posted 15 years ago0
I really like how Pgrundy put it: "religion starts out as a sincere desire to know what life is,"
I feel that is probably the most accurate statement I've read concerning the basic belief of religion.
The above stated quote answers the big 5; what, when, how, why and who. The statement even tells us "Where"...
Very well written Pgrundy. Kudos to you. Religion is an opium for masses. Every communist knows this
I can see electricity just fine. See - thunderstorms.
Your fairy tale is exactly that - a fairy tale. The idea that you will live forever is just so ridiculous it is not even funny.
But you go ahead and believe it if it makes you feel less scared of life.
I do not have a religion and I do not go around stealing and killing. Quite honestly I am offended that you accuse me of doing so just because I refuse to believe in your fairy tale. I guess you do not realize how offensive that is?
Ouch KCC Big! Fair warning my friend... I have asked those type of strong, direct, frank and "belittling"(which I think is hogwash)questions- for which I received nothing but fear, hate, and hypocritical criticism. I loved the way you broached your questions. Did you take Debate?
My personal feeling on "What's the purpose of Religion" is that people need to believe in something. Not saying that one belief is better than another. But stating that if a person feels the need to believe or create themselves a "bond to something" that's what religion is all about. Even believing in ones self and nothing else is a belief and to some (like myself) could be segued upon witnessing that (as to what they saw) to be a type of unconscionably religious belief system. Thanks for your approach to post threads and the wisdom within you.JulieAs I said previously... religion is a belief system. I respectfully understand that YOU think, what was it?... "We'd all be far better off if we simply believed in ourselves and didn't look anywhere else to tell us how to think and behave." With consideration to your statement, I disagree. I disagree based off the fact that "common sense" would rule and dictate the direction of ones behavior. In my field of study and based off my own experiences- relying solely on common sense, leads to false ideas and ASSUMPTIONS!
I think for someone to just 'assume' by using common sense is entirely irresponsible.... Hello! You home in there??? Come on here; how did you come to your moral fiber? Santa Claus??? Maybe you need to wake up!
Again in the spirit of understanding I based my opinions from my own personal life experiences and beliefs.Did Santa give you your moral fibre? Nice christmas present, because you could not possibly have developed it yourself.
Oh, no - you are worthless and incapable of doing so. You buy it in a bottle from the religion shop. Just look at their fiber...............
Bang on - I have my own spiritual/religious beliefs, and I see no need to force them upon anybody else. In the same way, I resent anybody else trying to force their beliefs upon me. I have no problem with debate, as that is one of the ways that we all understand a little more about the world.
I read MK's atheism thread recently (all 50+pages!), and that summed it up - folks like Peter Lopez, Wedding Consultant, BDazzler and Ben, amongst others, are all folks that you can have an interesting conversation with. They come from a different angle, but are prepared to listen and try to understand another point of view. Sadly, towards the end, the scripturebots leapt in and antagonised everybody, completely ruining a great thread.
I respect guys like MK and Paraglider - they arrived at their position through reasoning, philosophy and study. I arrived at a different answer, but am in no position to say that they are 'wrong' or 'sinners.' The spiritual (for want of a better word) journey is one that is deeply personal, and judging others by reciting 'somebody else's' interpretation of scripture is pathetic.
Think for yourselves - that is true religion!It never does - it is a result of insecurity, and a need to fulfill the ego. People who shout without any substance do so to cover up their lack of independent thought and reasoning. The human mind is an amazing machine, and it really is a crime not to use it
Personally, to borrow a phrase from Earnest, I don't give a rat's arse what anybody thinks about me. If they want to pull out an obscure piece of scripture 'proving' that I am a sinner, satanist or fool, then they are more than welcome.
If they have something interesting to say, I will listen. If they bring forth meaningless noise, I will not. If they try to intimidate or bully, then I laugh at them
Red Text] KCC Big Country said:
"Luckily, I'm not bothered by the impending 'fear, hate, and hypocritical criticism" that shuts most people up. We'd all be far better off if we simply believed in ourselves and didn't look anywhere else to tell us how to think and behave."
KCC Big Country also said:
"What exactly do you think a belief is? How did you get it? You observed the world around you and drew conclusions and assumptions based on your own experiences before that. So, does that mean that two people observing the exact same event MUST draw the same conclusion? Of course not! Both will still walk away seeing it differently. They have to, they came to this point with different experiences, beliefs, etc. Face it, we don't, and won't, ever think the exact same way.
My moral fiber? Self-imposed, self-regulated, and self-sufficient".
I DO NOT presume what the world is to be and I don't assimilate assumption in my conclusions of the world neither. So next time... replace the word "YOU" with "I". Who do you think you are? God? Don't make observations me or others. Make them for yourself! Just in case you were about to assume again.
And just so you know, when you included the word "We'd" be better off...... "We'd"- Shall I begin to assume that you only meant yourself and not everyone else? We'd? Does anyone here have or know the definition of "WE"?
Please don't assume "WE'D", as in you addressing ALL OF US, will believe a word of what you say. That is a IRRESPONSIBLE of you. However, thank you for making my point stick.
You want Christians and other fanatics to go away and leave you alone? I suggest you follow your own hypocritical advice, and don't be telling others how to think, what WE'D be seeing and observing.
And Pgrundy; if I may quote you just recently:
Red Text] [i]"The sad thing is, it would fun to discuss some of these ideas if it didn't always seem to degenerate into some kind of demented Bible thumping judgment-fest. It's kind of like religious terrorism."[i]
YOU DO KNOW THAT WORKS BOTH WAYS??? The sad thing is you're just as GUILTY as those demented Bible thumpers when it comes to participating in a JUDGMENT-FEST. So I am humble when I say; "Religious Terrorist? ..................have you looked in the mirror lately? For example allow me to present my case against you:
Do I not see any apologies from you admitting you miss took some of my questions about philosophical lifestyles and how it comes into play with others? Felt no need for NOT responding so aggressively? I also noticed twice how you told ME I understood you just fine. Each time I responded back politely that I did not. Did my politeness towards you get over shadow in your own bigotry against "Christians". Right out of the gate you put yourself in an attacking approach and manner. You even had the additivity of sass and hate requesting that {we/me} mind our own business and so on and so forth.
I am beginning to see the real person you are Pam! Your like a, ......um? What were your OWN words, ah yes!...... "demented" "religious" activist parading around passing judgment to all those that don't conform to your type of "terrorism"! Please..... I got a name for what YOU really are. 2 words, first word starts w/ H and ends with a "C"- second word starts with a T and end with a T! Who do you think you are? Good GOD woman .......your TYRANNY amazes me in your vast bigotry that seems to know NO BOUNDS!!! Oh there is so much more I'd like to say- and you would deserve it too................. Maybe it is time you take a good hard look at yourself, Pam.
And yes I know I would be better off to have just let this crap go and not of said anything. But I have seen first hand how some of you, yourselves have reacted to BS. And I know you wouldn't have let it just slide off into the sunset either...........!
Nice cop out. Standard approach. "I am just the messenger. I can't explain, you just have to blindly agree and then you will see."
Heard that one before, and it carries no weight. Thanks for proving just exactly how valuable your message is. Science? Electricity is the same as proving god exists? that was a new one. Thanks for the laughs.
ciao.
I suggest you look up the words "electrical discharge," and "plasma."
As for the rest of your condescending rubbish. Well...... If you want to take the existence of electricity as proof that there is a magical, invisible super being with a set of rules, be my guest.
Let me know when you have learned a little science to go with your fairy tale. Or was that not covered in condescending religions 101?
You can see heat
Can you see cold too? Is that the devil?
You guys are so funny. You do not realize just how offensive that tone of voice is. All you have to gain is an enjoyment of life.
Let go of the fear. It is wonderful.............
- pgrundyposted 15 years ago0
Aw shucks...
- jgrimes331posted 15 years ago0
So you do care what she thinks......
Yeh, I am sure LondonGirl will bite all over this one. But please forgive me BDazzle for being a tad bitter about her.... She too has made her bed, just like the rest of us. Hubpages will decide. I don't care anymore.
I don't know how to deal with people like her. Hey I'll see you around. NightOkay, so I thought this conversation was about the purpose of religion, somehow someone lost track.What does common words have to do with the purpose of religion?
The purpose of religion to me is providing so many of us with a faith that will not fail. I Thank God for the strength he has giving me and without religion I would be lost, but of course this is my opinion and my belief. Now we are back on track.
- jgrimes331posted 15 years ago0
KCC Big Country called my posts crap and rants. They pointed out to everyone how they thought my ideas and opinion were laughable and crappy! I wasn't very Christ-like and returned the favor.... I know, I should've just let it slide but- I am tired of people acting like that towards me and when I snap back I AM THE BAD person. Ever been there? Do you know what I mean? Why did KCC have to go about calling my stuff crap in the first place? I don't think what I was saying was crap! I think them telling everyone it was a laughable, crappy rant wasn't right. I "struck the tomahawk on the post", as we Blackfoot Nation folks say. Was it right no... Did KCC Big Country have a problem with saying that stuff about me... No! Go back and read it for yourself. Hey, thanks for keeping me right with KARMA.
Now wait- the haters will nail me with that one.... You'll see.Hey, thanks for the advice. But why now should I always have to rise above things and nobody else gets told the same thing???? I see.... well I do try most times, but I think they were outta of line. But I'm a NEWBIE. It seems to be the code in which old hubbers stand by- stick together at all costs. I have a very good friend in hubpages. She WAS too afraid to back me up because everyone likes PGrundy and LG. I have kinda sort of met another hubber, who I think now as a friendly person. I emailed her and asked her advice about my posts. She said the same thing, Oh Pams a nice lady." What kind of nice lady calls people names???? Well i' sorry, if I see a bigot. I'll call like it is. There is no room for hate. But why don't you tell them what you told me? Is it because I'm the most vocal? Common, are we back to the McCarthy Era? I again apologize and respectfully request that you see I don't need you to tell me to rise above it. I need someone to them their HATE towards certain people IS WRONG.
Each day is a new day, tomorrow I'll pray to be more compassionate concerning bigots and hate-mongers.
- jgrimes331posted 15 years ago0
Now why would you bring a pen to church if you know you would be needing it for stabbing yourself later when you are put to sleep?
well they might not be that hot afterall if you are lulled to sleep in the process
but you slept the rest through so your prayers weren't answered. i know now where you're coming from when it comes to religion. and why
I just about remember that in the north of England, the term was used as an insult amongst children in the mid 70's. It has not been used for a long time, thankfully - it was a standard term amongst doctors a few decades ago, but developed a derogatory definition. Strange how words can twist, over time - have to ask Shades about that!
I am a little older, LG, and I only just remember itMind you, if words did not change their meaning, there would be no innuendo. A world without the 'Carry On' movies
Ooooh, Matron - My guilty little pleasure - I used to have pretty much every single one on video, but had to leave them in the UK.
I tried to persuade the boss-lady that we should leave a few things behind, so that I could squeeze in a few extra books, movies and my comics. She decided that a bed, refrigerator and cooker were far more important. I have almost forgiven her.........maybe another year or two
If, and when, we get broadband, the Carry On movies will be the first things that I downloadHave you ever been to Pompeii - it's amazing. Worth a visit.
A very interesting place - very sad, though.
Sometimes we forget about the human side of history - that brought it home.
- jgrimes331posted 15 years ago0
Yes,
, very fitting of a Lady Guinevere!
- jgrimes331posted 15 years ago0
And I quote oh Marky Boy (Mark Knowles) again:
"As for being open-minded and un-biased. big_smile These do not go hand in hand with religion. What this means is, "Ready to believe in an invisible magical super being that has a set of rules for you......... And I know what those rules are." lol
As for being open-minded and un-biased. These do not do hand in hand with Mark Knowles.
You are a very proud, condescending, hypocritical Atheist aren't you? Oh I forgot Atheism has nothing to do with. Does your daddy?.;(Screw your disappointment. Where are you to criticize Mark? Lady, if you don't have a clue what's going on- STAY OUT OF IT!!!!
I happen to be disappointed in your hypocritical position. Come on.... dish it out.
Oh I forgot you don't like to judge people..... except me! Back off Chic you are outta of line.LOL
jgrimes - whilst I am still flattered that you have chosen me to work out some of your issues on, I don't think you are being fair to the rest of the forum users by cluttering up all the threads with your tirade.
It causes me no particular hardship and I hope it is helping to prevent you from behaving this way with people you actually know. So go right ahead, but please have some consideration for every one else.
Although - please do not send me any more personal emails. I have no interest in developing a relationship with you outside of the hubpages forum, and if you continue, I will start charging for therapy. 150 Euros per half hour. Two hours minimum payable in advance. We can take it from there.
good and might I add.... whatever!
- RFoxposted 15 years ago0
Yes and I do not understand this thread so it must be the work of the 'Dark Side.' Lol.
It started out so good and.....well........
And Mark....is that all you're charging nowadays for therapy?
I want a refund!
I must say I really don't understand why discussions revolving around Religion can cause such animosity, name-calling and anger.
But of course one of my primary aims is to win the battle against my ego and let go of any opinionated rantings.....sometimes I triumph and sometimes I go down in flames (there's that Devil reference again...lol.)
When I was a child my Mother always used to say, "There goes Rachelle on her soap box again."
Lately the soap box has at least had time to grow cobwebs in between usage.
So what is the purpose of Religion?
I honestly do not know.
I just know what philosophies have allowed me to transform and feel more joy and compassion. But that doesn't mean my path will work for anyone else.
I think it's good to remember that Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha and all the other Prophets marched to the beat of their own drum (some being persecuted for this very reason) and it was their inner voice they listened to not the word of the Leaders at the time. Just something to think about.
Related Discussions
- 183
Anachronism of atheism
Is atheism an anchronistic non-belief system? Of all the "isms" that has bedeviled man's existence, it could be said that atheism takes the cake for being inexplicably incongrous with modernity, for in its essence, non-belief (in somehting or anything) belies...
- 126
Is it Fair to Force Religion on an Individual Right After Birth?
A child is baptised, receives first communion, and is confirmed before they even fully understand what religion is, and what consequences it will have on their life.Would it be better to wait until a person is... say sixteen or eighteen years old, then asking them which religion they'd like to be...
- 182
Is Religion Useful?
Does religion serve a greater purpose than just service to whichever god I choose to worship?There is clearly a social function to the boundaries that religions impose on their followers and these boundaries may have more merit outside of the religious context than within it.What I am groping for...
- 27
~ Why do you need to follow any religion? ~
~ Why do you need to follow any religion? ~I am just curious as to why people need to, or choose wanting to believe in, follow, and participate in any religious affiliation? What drive people to believe in their religions? Is it simply because of tradition, upbringing, or an actual spiritual...
- 57
Would the world be a better place without religion?
Would the world be a better place without religion?A lot of persons always speak bad of religion and how it's just a flurry of confusion to turn races and nations against each other and how churches don't really help out at all.But suppose many people wishes came through and all of a sudden there...
- 34
What are your spiritual needs and how do you fulfill them?
I am a spiritual person -- this does not define my beliefs or my religion. What it does mean is that I am true to myself and my beliefs. I was raised a Christian and still have the basic beliefs, that God and Jesus do exist. I pray to God and I talk with Jesus for guidance and healing -- I also...