What is the purpose of religion?

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Teresa McGurkposted 15 years ago
What is the true purpose of religion/spirituality? To bind us with rules, or to open our hearts and our minds?

Where does atheism fit into the above? Does tolerance go hand in hand with enlightenment, and if so, how do we promote enlightenment (in whatever form it takes) over dogmatic closed-mindedness? Should we bother to try?

I'd love to hear your responses. . .
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  KCC Big Country, my heartfelt condolesences. My gosh, I am so sorry for your loss.
  
  Teresa, for me religion and spirituality are two different things. Spirituality is the journey we take in this life and Religion is our foundation, or guide, or reference point. That is how I think Atheists fit into this great mixing pot of people. I think compassion goes hand in hand with enlightenment. Compassion leads to understanding. Tolerance is the by-product of being an enlightened, compassionate person.
  Great forum issue! Thanks for the post!
  KCC- you have my heart...
  Julie
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  rizwaanahmedposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Friend ,
  
  I can explain the purpose of religion in few words BUT it requires complete understanding of the purpose of life on the earth and the system of life which is continuously going on.
  
  I you are not biased and really open to think, i will suggest go through the link tolueislam.com/Parwez/ICR/ICR.htm.
  
  I am not biased as well, feel free to discuss any thing, i was to be just like you, i can share my experience and thoughts with you.
  
  waiting for your response
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think you can lump religion and spirituality together. They are very different animals.
  
  There is no purpose to spirituality, unless you consider internal awareness a purpose.
  
  Religion is a political tool for controlling the ignorant masses. It works well with a lack of education.
  
  As for being open-minded and un-biased. These do not go hand in hand with religion. What this means is, "Ready to believe in an invisible magical super being that has a set of rules for you......... And I know what those rules are."
  
  And in this one's case. I suspect that includes a willingness to accept that you are a second class person because you possess ovaries.
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  rizwaanahmedposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you they are two different things and both are technical, means Religion.. a controlling tool and Spirituality .. the inner body science ... any one can practice these things in their own way as they like. but again whats the real objective of human life on the earth ?
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry there is no difference between religion and spirituality.
  Religions deal with the spirit and so does spirituality.
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  rizwaanahmedposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So to acquire spirituality is the objective of human life which is obtained by following some Religion ..
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You do not have to belong to any religion to be spiritual, but every religion is spiritual.You can directly communicate with god without the help of any prophet or religion.God is within you as well as outside of you.
  
  RELIGIONS
  
  The entire Buddhist monk's life is but a preparation,
  
  For his Death Point or moment of separation.
  
  The Jains have santhara,
  
  Quitting life consciously to join with the paramatma.
  
  Hindus go into Samadhi,
  
  Where there is no Congress, Shiv Sena , BJP or Samajwadi.
  
  The Christian merges with the Holy Spirit,
  
  Peace, no more desperate.
  
  The Sufi mystic to become one,
  
  Dances, twirls, prays, trances to get the job done.
  
  Aghora means Illumined with Light,
  
  Longing for Shiva in whom they delight.
  
  Shamanism or the Art of Ecstasy,
  
  The ultimate being one with the super entity.
  
  There is no need to change your faith,
  
  And on your old religion lay a wreath.
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  rizwaanahmedposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Can we request God to change His decisions ...
  there must be some criteria to measure why every one is happy with their Religion
  Can we think why there are so many Religions
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There have been many masters,different groups of people follow different masters which become a religion but the essence is the same.God exists ,he is inside you and you can come in contact with him.
  there must be some criteria to measure why every one is happy with their Religion-this is attachment to ones religion and the comfort of ones ego being part of a big group.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You must have forgotten all those religious people who tell you that you are going to hell because you do not follow their religion.
  
  Theoretically, they are the same, but in reality, not so. Why would a religion need to build an edifice like a church?
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  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Right On Mark. although I do believe in a higher power--or more like a oneness, kind of hard to explain that which you already know this from me. I don't think Religion really has a place in the sense of a God overseeing our very moves, because I do believe what Jesus says and not necessarily what the Church says and have come under LOTS of fire for that! We are all part of God and all the rules are already set in place. Only one that doesn't make sense in the Bible is that there is to be only ONE God. There are passages in that Bible that state differently one being Acts 2 34 but I will spare you the rhetoric and things you don't really want to see. The Bible to me is a guide and history of a select peoples and that is all it is to me. With my past experiences and how they brought me here and such this is my path and my spirituality. Or whatever you wish to call it because it is and will be different for each one of us here. They only thing there really is is compassion for each other and that is Unconditional Love. Those who judge others don't kniow the meaning of Love. Religion puts you further from your God then anything else on this planet. It serves to divide and not bring together.
  For those who want to learn about my experiences you can go to the links in my profile page.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oneness. I have never argued against the fact that we and everything on the earth are all connected. I feel this very strongly. But I do not need to call it a "higher power" or "god." and I certainly don't feel the need to shove it and the accompanying "moral fibre" down anyone's throat.
  
  Of course, if these religionists spent the next 1,000 years demonstrating it rather than preaching it, who knows...........?
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  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah well you see that i am slowly getting to the point of not knowling what to call it only The Universe or Creator or Oneness. These fanatical, name calling, scripture spitting, individuals (and I was one of them and slowly walking away from that) don't have a ounce of what they call love in them. They can't possibly for all they see is sin and satan and how to belittle a person and making someone feel guilt when there shouldn't be in the first place. I like the way Sufidreamer summed it all up.
  After psting my thread ealier I was ready to walk away from Hubpages altogether, but you Mark....... are a beacon in the night for me. You keep me going.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My pleasure. I wasted many years trying to do what you are doing. Unfortunately, people "use scripture to interpret scripture," which pretty much means they will read exactly what they have already decided is what you (not they) should be doing, and you will discover there is only one appropriate box. Not that I am a big fan of labels, but.........
  
  I think you know mine.
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  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yep I think I know yours.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OMG! I knew it! LOL
  
  Don't ask me to explain that....
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Explain.............
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just a theory I had with you. Proved right.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, that is not much of an explanation.
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nah. One can type too much and then obscure meaning or oneself. (And I've been typing too much, anyway.)
  
  It is a good thing!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Got it. Thought I was was hiding my light under a burning bushel. Apparently not.....
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  http://hubpages.com/hub/Religionspoem
  
  Yes tolerance goes hand in hand with religions.Enlightenment teaches you there is one god called by different names and the essence of all religions are identical.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And to get back on track.
  
  A quick read through this thread clearly demonstrates the purpose of religion. Whether intentional or not religion appeals to those ready to believe nonsense - and defend it and promote it to the exclusion of rational discussion.
  
  Invariably, this is where religious discussions end up.
  
  Frustration on the part of those who choose to believe when they cannot persuade others that they need to believe the same stuff. At the same time demonstrating those traits that they claim to have left behind.
  
  Defensiveness of those who refuse to be scared into a belief that they are worthless and what they need to do is jump on the religion bandwagon to be saved.
  
  And lots of mis-communications.
  
  I do not think spirituality has anything to do with religion, because once you have had a genuine spiritual experience, that last thing you want is religion. Religion is for those who want a spiritual experience, and think that some one else can give it to them, or that it comes from outside themselves. Magically.
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  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "I do not think spirituality has anything to do with religion, because once you have had a genuine spiritual experience, that last thing you want is religion. Religion is for those who want a spiritual experience, and think that some one else can give it to them, or that it comes from outside themselves. Magically."
  
  EXACTLY!!!!! Those who haven't had that kind of "real" experience will undoubtedly call it Satan!
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  because once you have had a genuine spiritual experience, that last thing you want is religion.-
  True you go beyond and don't need to follow any religion once you have had a spiritual experience.Religions are to be used as stepping stones.
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  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mohit!! I love to see you around! What you say is true and as I have said that anyone who doesn't understand that experience will call it Satanic in some form or another.
  Thanks for stoping by!!
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Lady Guinevere :- thats anyone who doesn't understand that experience will call it Satanic in some form or another- thats their lack of understanding.
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  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OR even wanting to understand. It is easier to hold a grudge and call names then to actually do some research for themselves so they might understand. I call that lazy. God and Jesus never said to be lazy. They even told us to sekk and find and ask and belive, but nope they will not do as Jesus says and when being pointed out will rather just call names. Isn't that the same as Judging?....................and what they get back is anger----ever wonder why........??? They still will say there is no Karma or cause and effect...............so call it the "Ripple Effect".
  
  Mark, Trying to miss her PM did you also miss mine as well. Mine wasn't hate filled or anything like that. I would never do that.
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  mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Its the way the world is and has been .Jesus was called a lunatic and killed.Zaratushtra the first prophet was jailed for 14 years.
  He was released as he saved the kings favorite horse from an ailment.If not for the horse a great prophet may have rotted in jail and never been recognized.
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  Rochelle Frankposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This pretty much sums it up for me.
  I had to question my own beliefs deeply before I got a satisfying answer. Everyone has to do it for themselves
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  Jouneyman2posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Purpose of religion/spirituality? ... To provide man an alternative to God's way of life. The religions of this world did not emanate from God, or His teachings, but rather from Satan through man to other men in the form of false teachings and doctrines. True followers of Christ are often described as being "close minded" because they refuse to conform to man's interpretation of what God teaches as being righteous and good.
  
  The false doctrines of men may have the "snugly - warm all over feeling" man prefers to associate with God's love, but that doesn't define them as being Truth, it just means that they feel good and that is usually how a person "chooses" a belief system or religion; based on how it "feels" when "tried on for size".
  
  True Christian Faith however has a rough and hard "feel" to it that most shun and steer clear of because it assaults their sense of "good will and love towards fellow man". True Christian Faith is not something one chooses for him or herself, it is the individual who is chosen by God, for a purpose which may or may not be immediately clear to the individual. God works with individuals on a personal basis, not in a group setting; though many of the faith may associate together for worship, celebration, and support purposes.
  
  God doesn't teach tolerance. He does teach his followers to have patients in many circumstances, but this should not be mistaken for weakness nor pacifism; it is merely a trait evry good teacher must learn. God clearly states that His followers shall have no other gods other than He. That's clear enough for any man to comprehend. Whether or not men CHOOSE to Obey it or not is up to them; but their disobedience to it doesn't change nor alter the authority.
  
  "Enlightenment" is a word often used to describe man's attitude toward Satan and his deceptions. No, I didn't mis - speak. If one is "enlightened" he is usually thought of by others as possessing some knowledge or quality that separates him from the rest of mankind for better or more peaceable reasons. In actuality many of the ideas and opinions of such "enlightened" individuals promote the ways of Satan... "do your own thing", "go your own way", "decide for yourself what is right and what is wrong", "be your own god unto yourself". Sound familiar? It should, it's the exact same message Satan told Eve in the garden of Eden; and when Eve didn't die after eating the forbidden fruit she believed him, and man has been following him and his ways ever since.
  
  Dogmatic closed-mindedness; as I said before, those of true faith are often accused of such things due to their position on teaching / keeping God's teachings and ways / laws / government. Our view is as Christ himself stated... "will you be saved of, or by the word of a man (men) or by the Word of God, and to whom will you be held accountable..." ? We say God, but many men say men...
  
  I'm sure these are not the answers you were seeking, nor will they be popular with most on this forum, but that doesn't change the authenticity nor authority of their basis in Truth.
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Who's authority and whos Truth? You are certainly entitled to your opinion - it is your standpoint on what you believe as truth as passed to you. It certainly is not mine. I hope you don't think lesser of me because it is not my truth.
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  Jouneyman2posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  God's. These are not formulations of my own opinions. Opinions being Unprovable. These are a point of view based upon the facts revealed in God's Word the Bible. One can CHOOSE to interpret what one reads into one's OWN opinion... but if that OPINION cannot be backed up nor justified according to God's Word it is NOT a truth of God, merely an opinion of the one who believes it.
  
  I usually do not make a habit of quoting book, chptr, and verse, as I was taught in the same manner Christ taught... seek the answers to the questions you have in the Bible and allow God to explain via HIS Word not mine nor any other man's. In other words, do as 2 Thes v 21 states. If I post it..its there, regardless whether you personally have read it or accept it or not.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Please offer proof. Something concrete would be nice please. I would take absolutely anything that does not involve me taking some one's word for it. By implication, you have something provable. So prove it.
  
  You speak for god
  
  Come on - of course you are being called close minded. Because that is what you are doing. You have god's word. Which was written by men in a book. You must surely be aware of the numerous additions and alterations made to the unadulterated word of god over the years? Or not. You think this book has the word of god in it. And therefore you are not open to listening to anything else. This is close minded.
  
  You are pretty rude too. You still owe me several replies from our last conversation. Is that what god told you to do? Be rude to those who do not share your fairy tail beliefs?
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  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This was left in the Bible after all the political crap and it make me wonder why but it is there none the less.......
  The Answers You Seek Are Within YOU. Jesus also tells us that they are not in a book and also to seek and ASK QUESTIONS. Most of you here are claiming that you have the Word of God, but I beg to differ with all of you that say that becsue Jesus said it isn't in a book, BUT Men say the Word of God is in the Book--the Bible. Follow Jesus or follow man--that is each of ours decision. All my answers are within me and all I have to do is ask and it will be given........and not from that book but from others and life and everything around us.
  Julie, CHILL! I am sorry that is not what you are looking for,but then ther is this other law that goes without proving anything-------Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do To You..Karma. Yes I read all the messages, but dear--you pick your battles and you picked a doozy. Now that it is started the Karma, cause and effect will continue for some time. I know, been there done that!!!! Mark will tell you!
  Everyone has choices and that is the beauty of life---we have choices and whatever we choose there will be an outcome, most times we don't know what that will be and there you have another law.....Forgive Them For They Know Not What They Do----and that includes oneself in all and everything.
  Love starts within yourself.not outside or in a book or in a building--unless you be in those places first.......
  How much do any of you love yourselves to choose what action you will or will not take? Like my other Forum post--turn the other cheek and oh one more thing-Judge Not lest Ye Be Judged----if you judge someone and call names and such--they most likely will come back to you---Karma!! Yes Karma is all in that Book! Forgiveness starts with each of us--how well we deliver that is up to us and in turn we will get our just rewards.........
  Love One Another!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Any time jouneyman.
  
  Wat a jouneyman anyway?
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  Pestposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  "God's word" was written by a primitive man at that. Looking to control it's people with fear of eternal damnation. Brilliant. Stories were also told to offer a false hope. "if you behave god will approve and "bless you" with crap. Instead of being responsible for their own actions they relied on a false god much like today..."oh god is mad that is why there is strife and ...right.
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I started to become reactive in regard to your interpretation of enlightenment. But having taken several deep breaths and become tolerant of silliness, I've let it drop.
  
  Even if opinions are the opinions in the bible, they are still opinions. What about your own experiences, your own feelings, your own thoughts and your own truth. You are following something that is outside of your own self. Is that ok with you? That means you're still doing what you're being told to do, is that okay?
  
  Experience experience experience, you can't beat it and it's the closest anyone will come to knowing what Truth really is.
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KCC Big Countryposted 15 years ago
I'm going to jump in early. Most of the religious posts get way out of hand before I stumble on them and by then they're too emotionally charged.

Even as a child I remember thinking religion was a way of controlling people. We went to a variety of churches as my dad went through an experimental phase. He seemed to be looking for something, but he just couldn't find it. He eventually gave up. I'm grateful for the experience because it exposed me to a variety of beliefs and and an array of 'characters'.

I think what really made me stop and analyze my belief system was when my son died in 2003. It made me want to understand how everything worked and why things were the way they were. Many turn to religion in those times of grief. If anything, it made me turn against religion even more. It seemed that my Christian friends could only offer words like "he's in a better place" or "you'll see him in heaven one day" and "he's one of God's newest angels". I have to tell you, none of those words comforted me.

I turned to books of all kinds. I read a lot of things that I disagreed with. I read a lot of things that made sense. But, most of all, I read a lot things that made me think. Once I began thinking about what made sense to ME, then I could accept what happened and begin to be at peace with things. I formed my own conclusions.

In a nutshell, here is what I believe.....

I believe we're all part of the same oneness that is the universe. We're all pieces of a whole that have the wonderful ability to have individual experiences and perceptions. I think it's a waste of time to try to figure it ALL out. I prefer to spend my time enjoying this experience we call 'life' and let everyone else enjoy theirs.

I hesitate to call myself an atheist because people love to use labels and then twist what they then believe that means I believe and don't believe. But, I will tell you that I believe the bible is a bit of historical fiction utilized by far too many people to attempt to control, manipulate, scare and condemn others with. So, to quote me anything out of it as fact is about as useful as quoting me passages from "Tom Sawyer". I don't care to hear it.

I consider myself a freethinker and open-minded. I won't try to convert the Christians, but nor do I want them to convert (or pray) for me.
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Teresa McGurkposted 15 years ago
How old was your son when he died, if you don't mind my asking?
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KCC Big Countryposted 15 years ago
He lacked 2 weeks being 13 yrs old. He died from injuries in a go-cart accident.
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  Teresa McGurkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I've been trying to find words to tell you how sorry I am. So he would be about 18 now, had he lived, and I know you think about things like that every single day, when you see your friends' sons get their first car, or graduate from high school. How could you not do so? Comfort is impossible to give -- all we can give you is our heartfelt pain at your distress; the last thing you need to hear. I can indeed understand how that would turn you away from any church or organized religion; the kind of solicitous comfort-mongering carried out by do-gooders in the name of the lord (or however they justify it to themselves) can be tedious at best, but heart-rendingly callous at worst.
  
  Your varied background and your father's wonderful openmindedness are inspiring, though. Always to listen to what others have to offer -- it doesn't mean that you don't know what to say or think; but it does demonstrate that you know how to learn.
  
  I LOVE it that you read so much, and disagreed with a lot of it! What a great independent mind you have cultivated, and how encouraging it is to meet with here. And, having traveled and read a bit, myself, perhaps I can understand what you mean by the sense of oneness you experience in the world. We all see things differently, but we all have our place here.
  
  Thanks for your incredibly clear and honest response to the question.
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KCC Big Countryposted 15 years ago
Thanks Teresa & Julie for your kind words.
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RFoxposted 15 years ago
See, I always wonder what is considered 'religion'.

I am a Buddhist. I follow the Dharma, I don't try to understand how we got here just that we're here. I don't believe God controls the universe, however, I don't discount the existence of heavenly beings.

We are. Life is. It ends. Then it begins again.

Some people consider Buddhism a religion, others a philosophy....does it matter...I don't believe so.

I think too many people get hung up on labels like 'Christian vs Atheist' etc.

I label myself a Buddhist because I do follow the teachings of the Buddha, it is therefore logical to say I am a Buddhist, however, does this mean I should be closed to other teachings? no, does this make me religious? I don't know.

I do know that personally I was born with certain strong beliefs about the world.
After exploring many different religious and scientific paths I discovered the teachings that brought me the most peace and understanding and that brought out the most compassion and empathy in me were the teachings of the Buddha.

When I hear such stories of loss and sadness as KCC Big Country's and after experiencing death and sadness in my own life, I found myself rejecting the standard western religious paths also. They do not provide the kind of comfort for me that they do for others (such as Christians.)

For me hearing the Buddha's words: 'Life contains suffering', 'Existence is impermanent' etc....the simplicity and honesty of it...that's what brings me peace. It helps me to be a happier person who can live in the moment...because all we have with loved ones sometimes are moments...knowing deeply, how short and fragile life is allows me to not waste any precious minutes being angry, holding grudges, feeling hatred etc. It is a balance to the darkness inside me, the human (animal) inside me.

So I feel that any belief system that helps someone create lasting peace, compassion and joy in their life is a great thing. This belief system does not necessarily have to be grounded in a religion....whatever that term really means...

For KCC Big Country:
It is a great thing that you can write openly about your loss and how this altered your belief system. It is a very difficult thing to choose to begin to live again after losing a child. Your courage is inspiring.
If you haven't already read the parable of the Mustard Seed you might enjoy it (don't worry I'm not trying to convert you! I just think it's a great story.)

A fellow Hubber has a hub on it: http://hubpages.com/hub/buddhistblog

So that's my take on religion.

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  KCC Big Countryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your kind words also. As courageous as it sounds, it's mostly just life. We carry on because carrying on is what we're 'designed' to do. Perhaps I do it with dignity, but that's because I chose to honor my son's memory because he deserves that just as any human has.
  
  On a separate note, I haven't ever seen Pgrundy say anything that wasn't well-said. Pgrundy, you really have your finger on the pulse, or maybe we just sing from the same sheet of music, but you are an expert at putting it down to paper.
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  LondonGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Agree - she's great.
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Junksterposted 15 years ago
Religion's purpose? it's the reasoning behind allsorts of loonies doing stupid things like blwoing themselves up for nothing.

It's a way to separate us all, so that we group together at choose to disagree with one another and eventually start a war because group A doesn't believe in the same thing as group B.

It's happened all the way through history.
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  rizwaanahmedposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Agree with you...
  
  The true religion can be one which makes all humans on earth as one family.
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pgrundyposted 15 years ago
I think religion starts out as a sincere desire to know what life is, why we're here, why stuff happens that seems to make no sense, and so on. But shortly thereafter religion usually ossifies into a political system that is basically used to control other people and win arguments even when you're wrong.

The elephant in the room is that not one of us knows what life is, who we are, and why we are here. People will tell you they have the answer. They do not. The heart of life itself is mystery, and people who can't abide mystery flock to religion. It isn't always a bad thing though. Like they say, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so we mostly hear from the squeakiest wheels who give religion a bad name. Lots of people quietly believe whatever they believe and leave others alone, which I think is the humane and courteous way to behave. If religion gives those people comfort, who am I to take it away? It's not my business or my job to do that.

I never met a religion I that didn't offer something I admired very much, and I never tried to join one I didn't soon get kicked out of. You can't think for yourself once you join. They all ask you to leave if you do that. There's always a "man behind the curtain question" that is prohibited, and I figure out what that question is really fast, and as soon as I do, it's the only question I want to ask. I'm perverse that way. I always think, why do we have brains if we aren't supposed to use them?

So it's not for me. But if I had to choose a religion for myself, like, at gunpoint or something, I guess I'd go with Buddhism. There's no "big guy in the sky" with that religion, and they don't waste a lot of time with questions no one can answer anyway. Also I think the emphasis on compassion is exactly right.
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  rizwaanahmedposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We have brain, we can think and learn through experience, 'Human' the only creature exists on earth have this ability. There must be some goal where we have to reach. What ever we are doing in our life is for some objective to achieve. Every human belonging to any ethnic group have same necessities and desires, I think these necessities should be fulfilled in a balanced way irrespective of group, can be the objective of life. In order to acquire this we have to suffer and sacrifice for others because there are variety of humans having different abilities, one has the ability to earn money but the other don't then there should be some unique system to balance this situation like water maintains its level. We can learn through the existing creatures like sun, moon,air, fire, Sun light, Moon light is for every one irrespective of human ethnic group, fires job is to burn, air oxygen and so on..
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jgrimes331posted 15 years ago
I really like how Pgrundy put it: "religion starts out as a sincere desire to know what life is,"

I feel that is probably the most accurate statement I've read concerning the basic belief of religion.
The above stated quote answers the big 5; what, when, how, why and who. The statement even tells us "Where"...

Very well written Pgrundy. Kudos to you.
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Mishaposted 15 years ago
Religion is an opium for masses. Every communist knows this
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eoveryposted 15 years ago
With live after death, religion is a hope. Did Jesus really rise after three days? Yes! There is light within us that nature and Darwinism cannot explain. I know that Jesus lives. I have felt the Holy Ghost confirm this to me. We cannot see electricity, but we can harness the energy of it. We cannot see God but we can feel his spirit.

Does all the history from Adam to Jesus be ignored? No!

With out religion, why would we obey anything. Screw life, eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. Why would it matter if killed my neighbors, steal what ever I wanted?

This is not an opium to the masses as communist are brained washed to believe. Our church is doing great missionary work in Russia. Don't tell me they do not believe. I can provide evidence in to show just the contrary.

I feel for people who do not have the hope or expectation of life after death. Whenever they lose a loved one, to think that all has ended defiles every notion of life itself. Death is not the victor, death has lost its stung! We have a loving Eternal Father, who has provided life for his children so that can be become more like him. Jesus was the first resurrected, and many followed. Everyone who has ever lived on this earth will be resurrected. This is truth eternal, taught since the days of Adam, Noah, and the rest of the Prophets. History books and man-thinks have tried to devaluate this, but it is there.

I have been working on a hub to tell the truth about religion. I have been hesitant to publish it, but I will try to finish it up within the next week or two and explain it. It started with the opening of my hub, where have the prophets gone. This proves to me I need to get it out. It will also explain, where did I come from? Why am I here? And, What happens after death. Along with the method to know if this is true.
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  KCC Big Countryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not all of us believe that Jesus lived. Not all of us believe the bible. As Bill Maher said in his movie "Religulous", if someone had switched some fairy tales with the bible would you know the difference? Of course not. You bought into the fairy tale. Not all of us did.
  
  And to think we'd all rape and murder and run around like crazies without religion is crazy. We don't need religion to maintain civility.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  I can see electricity just fine. See - thunderstorms.
  
  Your fairy tale is exactly that - a fairy tale. The idea that you will live forever is just so ridiculous it is not even funny.
  
  But you go ahead and believe it if it makes you feel less scared of life.
  
  I do not have a religion and I do not go around stealing and killing. Quite honestly I am offended that you accuse me of doing so just because I refuse to believe in your fairy tale. I guess you do not realize how offensive that is?
  
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  eoveryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, Mark Knowles,
  
  Mark I set you up, and you fell fof it. You did not see electricity in the thunderstorm, you saw the heat generated from the electricity, not the electricity.
  
  The same is for the spirit. You can experiment and feel it. There nothing better than when you feel the spirit strongly. I feels better than when you were young and your mom or dad would put their loving arms and tell you how much they loved, and it made everything feel great.
  
  Sorry, I did not mean to come across saying you did the bad things, I meant, what would stop a person from doing those things? Sorry if you felt offended, but it was not meant that way, nor do I feel it was written that way.
  
  KCC, as for the quoting the Bible, that is what most people know. However I have several other sources to quote. Truth is not just in the Bible. the Bible was just a few of the writings and history assembled together for a record of events. There are many others out there that bring this to light also. For an Example, the prophets that prophecied of Jesus were not actually included in the Bible but have been found in writing that have been recently discovered in the caves in the mid-east. All of the old Egypt writing talk about three gods, Elohim, Jehovah and I can't remember the other name, but it represent the Holy Ghost. These appeared to show about about the time Abraham showed up in Egypt. Fairy Tales, I am afraid not, the evidence is there.
  
  But we can butt heads about this all we want and not proof anything, just to open up our minds to a higher level for a moment. Like I said, I am working on a great hub that explains this, and how you can find out about this yourself. Only the exhortation to truly try it. If you don't try it honestly, then do not claim that it is not true. Not to take man's word on it, but to take God's word on it. From the way you guys put it you have nothing to lose but a lot to gain.
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  KCC Big Countryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's what most people know? You're kidding, right? Again, why do you feel the need to quote anyone else? That's the problem. Do you have any thoughts of your own? Do you believe everything you read? Wake up.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ouch KCC Big! Fair warning my friend... I have asked those type of strong, direct, frank and "belittling"(which I think is hogwash)questions- for which I received nothing but fear, hate, and hypocritical criticism. I loved the way you broached your questions. Did you take Debate?
  
  My personal feeling on "What's the purpose of Religion" is that people need to believe in something. Not saying that one belief is better than another. But stating that if a person feels the need to believe or create themselves a "bond to something" that's what religion is all about. Even believing in ones self and nothing else is a belief and to some (like myself) could be segued upon witnessing that (as to what they saw) to be a type of unconscionably religious belief system. Thanks for your approach to post threads and the wisdom within you.Julie
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  KCC Big Countryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Luckily, I'm not bothered by the impending 'fear, hate, and hypocritical criticism" that shuts most people up. We'd all be far better off if we simply believed in ourselves and didn't look anywhere else to tell us how to think and behave.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As I said previously... religion is a belief system. I respectfully understand that YOU think, what was it?... "We'd all be far better off if we simply believed in ourselves and didn't look anywhere else to tell us how to think and behave." With consideration to your statement, I disagree. I disagree based off the fact that "common sense" would rule and dictate the direction of ones behavior. In my field of study and based off my own experiences- relying solely on common sense, leads to false ideas and ASSUMPTIONS! I think for someone to just 'assume' by using common sense is entirely irresponsible.... Hello! You home in there??? Come on here; how did you come to your moral fiber? Santa Claus??? Maybe you need to wake up!
  
  Again in the spirit of understanding I based my opinions from my own personal life experiences and beliefs.
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  KCC Big Countryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It's a slippery road when one starts stating their OPINIONS as FACTS as you've just attempted to do. You are always entitled to your own opinion and frankly, I'm glad to see you attempt to have one of your own. Just don't expect anyone else to necessarily agree with it.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Did Santa give you your moral fibre? Nice christmas present, because you could not possibly have developed it yourself. Oh, no - you are worthless and incapable of doing so. You buy it in a bottle from the religion shop. Just look at their fiber...............
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  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Bang on - I have my own spiritual/religious beliefs, and I see no need to force them upon anybody else. In the same way, I resent anybody else trying to force their beliefs upon me. I have no problem with debate, as that is one of the ways that we all understand a little more about the world.
  
  I read MK's atheism thread recently (all 50+pages!), and that summed it up - folks like Peter Lopez, Wedding Consultant, BDazzler and Ben, amongst others, are all folks that you can have an interesting conversation with. They come from a different angle, but are prepared to listen and try to understand another point of view. Sadly, towards the end, the scripturebots leapt in and antagonised everybody, completely ruining a great thread.
  
  I respect guys like MK and Paraglider - they arrived at their position through reasoning, philosophy and study. I arrived at a different answer, but am in no position to say that they are 'wrong' or 'sinners.' The spiritual (for want of a better word) journey is one that is deeply personal, and judging others by reciting 'somebody else's' interpretation of scripture is pathetic.
  
  Think for yourselves - that is true religion!
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  pgrundyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The sad thing is, it would fun to discuss some of these ideas if it didn't always seem to degenerate into some kind of demented Bible thumping judgment-fest. It's kind of like religious terrorism. Some of us get an interesting discussion going, then one of the terrorists shows up, then it degenerates into "I know you are but what am I?" and no one gets to have any fun anymore.
  
  It's really a violent tactic. How can it possibly win anyone over?
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  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It never does - it is a result of insecurity, and a need to fulfill the ego. People who shout without any substance do so to cover up their lack of independent thought and reasoning. The human mind is an amazing machine, and it really is a crime not to use it
  
  Personally, to borrow a phrase from Earnest, I don't give a rat's arse what anybody thinks about me. If they want to pull out an obscure piece of scripture 'proving' that I am a sinner, satanist or fool, then they are more than welcome.
  
  If they have something interesting to say, I will listen. If they bring forth meaningless noise, I will not. If they try to intimidate or bully, then I laugh at them
  
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  LondonGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What my Grandad used to call "Devil Dodgers" based on the "DD" degree.
  
  AKA Bible Bashers.
  
  He was very, very religious in a low-church, "thou shalt have no fun" way, until the War. After that, he never darkened the doors of a church again except for hatches, matches and despatches.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Red Text] KCC Big Country said:
  "Luckily, I'm not bothered by the impending 'fear, hate, and hypocritical criticism" that shuts most people up. We'd all be far better off if we simply believed in ourselves and didn't look anywhere else to tell us how to think and behave."
  
  KCC Big Country also said:
  "What exactly do you think a belief is? How did you get it? You observed the world around you and drew conclusions and assumptions based on your own experiences before that. So, does that mean that two people observing the exact same event MUST draw the same conclusion? Of course not! Both will still walk away seeing it differently. They have to, they came to this point with different experiences, beliefs, etc. Face it, we don't, and won't, ever think the exact same way.
  My moral fiber? Self-imposed, self-regulated, and self-sufficient".
  
  I DO NOT presume what the world is to be and I don't assimilate assumption in my conclusions of the world neither. So next time... replace the word "YOU" with "I". Who do you think you are? God? Don't make observations me or others. Make them for yourself! Just in case you were about to assume again.
  
  And just so you know, when you included the word "We'd" be better off...... "We'd"- Shall I begin to assume that you only meant yourself and not everyone else? We'd? Does anyone here have or know the definition of "WE"?
  
  Please don't assume "WE'D", as in you addressing ALL OF US, will believe a word of what you say. That is a IRRESPONSIBLE of you. However, thank you for making my point stick.
  
  You want Christians and other fanatics to go away and leave you alone? I suggest you follow your own hypocritical advice, and don't be telling others how to think, what WE'D be seeing and observing.
  
  And Pgrundy; if I may quote you just recently:
  Red Text] [i]"The sad thing is, it would fun to discuss some of these ideas if it didn't always seem to degenerate into some kind of demented Bible thumping judgment-fest. It's kind of like religious terrorism."[i]
  
  YOU DO KNOW THAT WORKS BOTH WAYS??? The sad thing is you're just as GUILTY as those demented Bible thumpers when it comes to participating in a JUDGMENT-FEST. So I am humble when I say; "Religious Terrorist? ..................have you looked in the mirror lately? For example allow me to present my case against you:
  Do I not see any apologies from you admitting you miss took some of my questions about philosophical lifestyles and how it comes into play with others? Felt no need for NOT responding so aggressively? I also noticed twice how you told ME I understood you just fine. Each time I responded back politely that I did not. Did my politeness towards you get over shadow in your own bigotry against "Christians". Right out of the gate you put yourself in an attacking approach and manner. You even had the additivity of sass and hate requesting that {we/me} mind our own business and so on and so forth.
  
  I am beginning to see the real person you are Pam! Your like a, ......um? What were your OWN words, ah yes!...... "demented" "religious" activist parading around passing judgment to all those that don't conform to your type of "terrorism"! Please..... I got a name for what YOU really are. 2 words, first word starts w/ H and ends with a "C"- second word starts with a T and end with a T! Who do you think you are? Good GOD woman .......your TYRANNY amazes me in your vast bigotry that seems to know NO BOUNDS!!! Oh there is so much more I'd like to say- and you would deserve it too................. Maybe it is time you take a good hard look at yourself, Pam.
  
  And yes I know I would be better off to have just let this crap go and not of said anything. But I have seen first hand how some of you, yourselves have reacted to BS. And I know you wouldn't have let it just slide off into the sunset either...........!
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  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Pam's statement was in response to my previous comment - no more, no less.
  
  This is the original thread:
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/3586
  
  The first 40 - 50 pages were a great religious discussion, with respect shown by all sides - sadly, a lot of people who admitted not bothering to read the thread leapt in, and it became a slanging match.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sufi: I apologized if I got in the mix of a personal conversation.... Maybe when she feels like calling people religious terrorists; it would be better serve that she would express those kind of views in a PM and not for "people" like me to read. I am sorry if this(now using Pam's own words)" terrorists shows up" & doesn't allow the bigot to have any fun anymore." That is the second time you've defended her..... I am beginning wonder if you agree with her hypocritical tyranny? Thanks Sufi! .....But Pam doesn't get a "get out of jail card" because you two were having "personal discussion" in front of ALL of us. Nope, not today. Thanks for trying. There are NO EXCUSES to openly justify calling hubbers ANY hubbers TERRORIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or suggesting some hubber who believe in Christ are RELIGIOUS TERRORIST!!!!!!!!!!! And just you know, I read all the hubs before and after what she had posted. So.......... I still found it EXTREMELY offensive on her part. Am I not entitled to call her out because you two are best buddies? Screw that.... How can you stand up for someone who talks like that against another person, culture or race. Sufi ......okay? what gives? You okay with bigotry. Fine I am not. And no matter the conversation- I AM GOING TO POINT IT OUT! Even though you lack the responsibility of doing so!!!
  
  If you think it is excusable... good for you. I don't and I'm tired of her hypocritical prerogatives!
  
  By all means let the hate mail begin... After all this Christian is getting use to in the religious forums. Don't hestitate to make some crack about labeling myself a Christian, attacking Pam for no reason.... I'll have you know I have taken more crap from some truly unique individuals. But Pam and endless tryanny know no bounds. I am tired of it. Is that okay with you Sufi??????????????????
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  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Fair enough - that is your opinion. I happen to disagree - that is my opinion.
  
  You may place any labels, accusations and names onto me that you wish - that is entirely up to you, and it will not affect my personal perception of 'self' in any way.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Since when did the conversation turn to how you're going to handle your personal perception of "self"? Good Sufi..... Feel better? I expect no less- if that is what you were ASSUMING?
  
  Only made the label comment because I've been blasted about that before. Just wanted to make sure it was okay with everyone... SEEING HOW THIS IS A PUBLIC VENUE! In case Pam or yourself didn't notice. Which by your excuses you did not. Nice Sufi, real nice... Please what a joke.
  Unlike Pam.....
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  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You appear to have a pathological need to be hated.......I do not know why.
  
  Maybe you are trying to goad others into becoming the weapons that fulfill your desire for self-destructive behaviour. Self-harm by proxy, or something like that.
  
  I do not hate you, and have no wish to harm you, so you are wasting your time.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Whatever Sufi!...............Nice try, but please.......... save that crap for someone else.
  Sufi, did you ever consider what Pam said? And I the one with;( what was it)"self-destructive behaviour". Sufi pass your BS off on someone else. I call it like it is... If your a bigot, I'll tell you. If your a great person, like yourself by the way, I'll tell ya.
  
  Save that other BS for people who might be intimidated with those fancy words... Nice try..... having fun yet? Can't let slide off into the sunset either? Feel the need to defend more bigots? By all means Sufi... it's your turn.
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  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Watching somebody fall apart is no fun.
  
  There is little more to say - This conversation has moved into a dark, cold place, and I have no desire to follow you there. I hope that you manage to find the answers that you seek - I wish I could help, but I don't even know the questions.
  
  Goodbye, Julie.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Bye Bye Sufi! I'll miss you. Still supporting a racist bigot? Ah.... Sufi, how proud you must feel. Hey by the way- I got a fire going, supper on the stove- boy it's warm in here.
  Sufi, that pity BS and physcological nonsense- doesn't work on me. Nice try, I am glad you feel the need to quit trying to get me snared in all your cold, cold,cold dark places. Sufi, you sure I'm the one with the complex and NOT YOURSELF??
  
  bye, Sufidreamer, I will miss you.... Please! Feed your cold dark places crap to someone else Sufi...
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ahhh, Future Me, I find that in spite of the memory issues caused by yet-to-occur "duck incident" I see you have not forgotten one of the core teachings of our mentor.
  
  Remember well, "Like a flitting sparrow, like a flying swallow, So a curse without cause shall not alight." Shalom Future Me!
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  LondonGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  What if said hubber had a nasty habit of planting bombs? Would that do as an excuse?
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  LondonGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ooooh, new targets found. Two in one go.
  
  I can't help feeling that, around a dinner table, you'd be the type to say, "enough of my talking about me. What do you think of me?"
  
  Have you noticed quite how often you seem to fall out with people?
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LG you brighten my day. I really don't give a crap if I fall out with people like yourself.
  Thanks for worrying about that. I could really careless what an individual like you thinks anymore.
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  eoveryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks jgrines331. I posted my hub, I do not need to defend my faith but to to share it.
  
  You are invited to read it. I feel this is important. If you guys do not want an open discussion and get answers to you questions, do not post questions on them. Instead post "Let;s bash religion some more"
  
  And by the why, look up arc-flash in electrical journals. OSHA and the electric code has regulations on it. I am an engineer with plenty science to back me up.
  
  I am done here. I am just the messenger. As my hub says ask God, he will tell you. I let out what I know is true about religions. You guys can sit back here and rant all you want, Have fun!,
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nice cop out. Standard approach. "I am just the messenger. I can't explain, you just have to blindly agree and then you will see."
  
  Heard that one before, and it carries no weight. Thanks for proving just exactly how valuable your message is. Science? Electricity is the same as proving god exists? that was a new one. Thanks for the laughs.
  
  ciao.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  I suggest you look up the words "electrical discharge," and "plasma."
  
  As for the rest of your condescending rubbish. Well...... If you want to take the existence of electricity as proof that there is a magical, invisible super being with a set of rules, be my guest.
  
  Let me know when you have learned a little science to go with your fairy tale. Or was that not covered in condescending religions 101?
  
  You can see heat
  
  Can you see cold too? Is that the devil?
  
  You guys are so funny. You do not realize just how offensive that tone of voice is. All you have to gain is an enjoyment of life.
  
  Let go of the fear. It is wonderful.............
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  KCC Big Countryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I totally agree!!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it is. And an addition to what I said to eovery - Why does this person assume (offensively again) that I am incapable of distinguishing right from wrong and the only way I could do that is by reading the bible. Otherwise there is nothing stopping me from behaving badly?
  
  A quick look through any history book is enough to persuade me that christians are just as likely to kill murder, rape, pillage and maim as any other group. And not only that - they are hypocritical about it because they are doing it in god's name......
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pgrundyposted 15 years ago
Aw shucks...
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KCC Big Countryposted 15 years ago
It seems to be really difficult for so-called Christians to defend their religion without quoting the bible. What if you didn't have the bible? What would you feel then? Why do you cling to it so strongly and believe it with all your might? It just isn't logical. Is there any other book in the world that you'd pick up and believe with all your heart and defend the way you do the bible? Of course not. What makes you believe the bible? Fear, my friend. You're afraid not to. You're afraid you might miss out on something. I tell you what you're missing out on, life. You're too worried and wrapped up in 'what if's" that you miss out on the very thing you're here for......to simply live. It's a shame. And, if that's as far as it went that would be one thing, but so many things are done in the name of religion. That's the real tragedy.
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Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
Here is something to add-----All of the Miracles that Jesus did is NOT in that Bible----It states that right in that Bible and it also states that we will do more than Jesus ever did...and what's more is that we will do even better and greater things than he...and what's even more............Jesus did NOT disciminate people from people and he did NOT belong to a Church, Another thing.Jesus did NOT consider anything that he di as a miracle...to him they were everyday occurances and expected us to do them too.

That's my two cents! Actually it is the Bible's two cents!! LOL
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KCC Big Countryposted 15 years ago
And now to quote another popular fictional book "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer" .....

Do you see how ridiculous that is? Give me something original. I don't want to hear what the bible has to say or what you THINK some character called Jesus had to say.
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KCC Big Countryposted 15 years ago
What exactly do you think a belief is? How did you get it? You observed the world around you and drew conclusions and assumptions based on your own experiences before that. So, does that mean that two people observing the exact same event MUST draw the same conclusion? Of course not! Both will still walk away seeing it differently. They have to, they came to this point with different experiences, beliefs, etc. Face it, we don't, and won't, ever think the exact same way.

My moral fiber? Self-imposed, self-regulated, and self-sufficient.
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Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
They remind me of this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MLBfwblps8
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KCC Big Countryposted 15 years ago
I can't stop laughing long enough to reply. Where to start even? Do you even read what you write? There is so much crap in your ranting, Julie. I'm not even going to bother. Carry on with your head up Jesus and I'll go on thinking for myself. We'll agree to disagree.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I highly disagree with your opinion of my post. I do like your style of belittling people, how you deem writings "crap" or not and whether or not a poster is ranting. Are you sure you're not the "Creator"? WE'D like to know. Feel free to "ASSUME" that I think your full of crap yourself.
  
  Why yes, I do respectably agree to disagree.
  
  Come on, I ready..... Give me what'cha got? oooooooh, I can hardly wait KCC. I find your BS quite entertaining as well. Slam me back so we can both laugh together:D
  
  What's matter KCC, I still waiting????????????????????????????????????????????
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  KCC Big Countryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The reason you've been waiting Julie, is because I went out. I went shopping, did a bit of ENJOYING LIFE! You should try it. I really feel sorry for you. It must be miserable in your god-fearing world. I have no more bantering to do with you. We've agreed to disagree. I'm content to leave it at that.
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jgrimes331posted 15 years ago
LondonGirl I'll take you attacks addressed towards me personal. I don't see where you listed one single opinion or orginial idea on the basic topic again. You like picking on people don't you.

I also you silenced towards Pam's vivacious views are RIGHTEOUS with you? Ever tried gloating? You a Hate Mongoliar too? I beginning to think how you attack and "broach" a post with "personal attacks" against another hubber- that yeh! Why not..... you're a hate mogoliar.

Brain not working today? No original ideas, posts or threads addressing the topic? BrainFreeze? Well if this is an attempt to hide your stupidity, please trash talk and attack me all you want darling. I'm here for you.
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  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So you do care what she thinks......
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeh, no- I thinks LG is.... Ah! Can't defend myself or question her without looking weak Sufi? Shall I just let it slide?... um, like you are apparently doing? Come on Sufi- speak up about that.
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  LondonGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you know, I have absolutely no idea what either of those sentences mean. Perhaps they are in Mongolian?
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, I'll let Hubpages know how you make fun of people with mental illnesses to defend your nonsense. That okay with you. Feel free to report me too! I can't wait to show them what I have stored of yours. Mongolian? LondonGirl- YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE FROM MONGOLIA? OR JUST MENTALLY HANDICAPPED PEOPLE? DON"T LIKE PEOPLE WHOSE BORN WITHOUT THE 1 CHORMESONE(sp) NEEDED TO MAKE THEM SMART LIKE YOU????????????????????
  
  And, nobody addresses this RACIST BIGOTS opinion? Shame on you LONDONGIRL> Yeh, you bet I am going to react to this hub. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TOO SUGGEST WHAT YOU DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\
  
  You are a very very very small creature, aren't you? I pity such a small person like you. I don't think you could've gotten any lower!!!!!!!!! I'll see you in the reporting section!!!!!!
  
  Nobody, not single person, other than myself doesn't find LondonGirl's remarks on MONGOLIANS as pertaining to my intelligence despicable? Nobody has family or knows somebody with a mentally handicapped kid? How do you think they'd look upon a thread such as that? I'll tell you- you'll find yourself reported. LondonGirl- you are truly a sad, sad, small individual. Your comment tells EVERYBODY what they need to know about you. Nice...............real grown up like LG.
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  LondonGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mental illness? Chromosomes? Now what on earth are you on about?
  
  You wrote a couple of sentences which included the word, "Mongoliar" in them. As they made no sense, I asked if they were in "Mongolian". So I have no idea what on earth your latest rant is about.
  
  I have no problems with Mongolians. I enjoyed my time in both Inner Mongolia and Outer Mongolia greatly.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Please......When I report this one along with 12 or so I already have about you, I'll make sure they get your drift- nice try LondonGIrl. Now why don't you go pick on someone your own size and stay away from me. I got a better idea, why don't we agree right here and now TO FOREVER respectably disagree with one another. That way you can just pass me by as I often do with you. You can't hid who you are LG, the cat's outta the bag. YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WERE SAYING!! Nice try, BUT I am really tired of HOW YOU ALWAYS PERSONALLY ATTACK ME!!!!! Why don't you go through your own hubpages like I have once, and see what I mean......
  
  I forever respectably chose to leave you alone and just PASS YOU BY, I forever recognize that I will always be disagreeing with you. I respectfully don't appreciate your personal comments towards me and would like you to stop YOUR PERSONAL attacks against me, and lastly I completely and respectably think you are a hate-monger(sorry I spelled it wrong earlier.) OH, to the mentally handicap people- I am really sorry. I didn't know LondonGirl had it in for mentally handicap people and MONOGLIANS!!! Nice try LondonGirl. Again I humbly regret to inform you that I DIDN'T TAKE THE BAIT! Again, only a small, small, small person would try to hide under their words instead of just apologizing. Now are we in agreement to leave each other alone forever or do you have more personal attacks to blast at me. Because, be my guest. I can report you all night long if you'd like....................
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  LondonGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  <shrug> whatever. The Down's Syndrome reference was entirely in your mind, it hadn't even occured to me. I have a vague recollection of seeing people with DS described as "Mongols" in Victorian censuses, but as a term it's about 100 years out of date.
  
  And, of course, people with DS aren't "mentally ill" or "Mongolian". I made it rather clear, the reference to "Mongolian" was in respect of your illiterate and senseless sentences which include the phrase "hate Mongolier" or somesuch phrase.
  
  I've never heard DS people being referred to as speaking Mongolian. Mongolians (from Mongolia) do.
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  About 60 years ago, it was common for Downs Syndrome people to be called "Mongoloids", for people my grandparents age, it was simply a descriptive word. Sometime after the late 1960s the term "Mongoloid" became socially unacceptable (about the same time the word "Negro" became unacceptable.)
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for making my point. LondonGirl knew what she was implying or she would've never presented it that way. But thanks.... I'll see you around. Julie
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know, I've found that common words around my neck of the woods are different in London ... for example one time Mark had to translate "Potato Chips" for me. Evidently in England they're called "Crisps". It is possible that the term "Mongoloid" was never popular in England, or went out of fashion sooner.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yeh, I am sure LondonGirl will bite all over this one. But please forgive me BDazzle for being a tad bitter about her.... She too has made her bed, just like the rest of us. Hubpages will decide. I don't care anymore. I don't know how to deal with people like her. Hey I'll see you around. Night
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  AEvansposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, so I thought this conversation was about the purpose of religion, somehow someone lost track.What does common words have to do with the purpose of religion?
  
  The purpose of religion to me is providing so many of us with a faith that will not fail. I Thank God for the strength he has giving me and without religion I would be lost, but of course this is my opinion and my belief. Now we are back on track.
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  LondonGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I was born at the end of the 70s, and it seems entirely historical to me.
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  BDazzlerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My grandmother still uses the term (she's 92 or 93) or I doubt I would know about it myself. I did some volunteer work with what we still called "Mentally Retarded" in the late 70s, though the term was migrating to "Special Needs", I don't think anybody was using the term "Mongoloid" by then.
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  pgrundyposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  My 'vicious views'? Good grief. Take a pill or something,
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  Rochelle Frankposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  She didn't say "vicious", she said "Pam's vivacious views".
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you, I am taking your earlier advice. I mediated and prayed this morning for more love and compassion To be better aware and enlightened. Thank you again.
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you'll excuse the jibe (not against you), best you not go anywhere near being enlightened because as was relayed by the man who has journeyed far - that's satanic!
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knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
Maybe I line jump here.
"did you ever consider what Pam said?"
"kind of like religious terrorism"
Not as was originally meant perhaps, but I would say the concept of hell could be construed as a form of religious terrorism.
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well the concept for sure and it's riddled with fear mongering. I think the intricacies of hell and even the purpose of a dark side are totally misunderstood. It's very easy to take the concept of hell and create some external construct - a firey dungeon like geographical location that is the alternative place to heaven, another geographical location. The main impressions I get from Christian dogma is an externalisation of something that is meant to be internal. God is something outside of you, hell is something outside of you, heaven is something outside of you. It is what others do that tempt one to be unchristian. It is not my fault I am upset, it is yours - cause you upset me. Blame, externalisation, non ownership. Jesus is going to save me - again an external concept is going to do the work for me. I just have to believe and this man will make sure I get to heaven. Shit what a job - Jesus is going to take responsibility for a Christian's ticket to heaven? What a man!
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Knolyourself; I appreciate how "NICE" Pam is. I know how everyone thinks she is such a "good" person......
  
  I have seen nothing be bigot demented(as she would say) terrorism, to give me a different opinion of her. I don't care was point "she" could've or might have been trying to make.
  
  Would've, Could've, Should've..... Man, ever been a victim of that? Well that's too darn bad. She made her own bed, she can lay in it.
  
  Demented, Religious Terrorism, Judgment-Fest???? Pam's own true words. Bring it on- by all means feel free to defend a hate-Mongoliar spreading hate across the world wide web.
  By all means defend her..... after all; look at what the "nice lady"platform is!!!! YOU GUYS ROCK! cool.....righteous:D
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Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
Please! Everyone take a break and listen to this video! iT IS PERFECT FOR THIS VERY MOMENT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMj7UcjPZ0U
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knolyourselfposted 15 years ago
"dogma is an externalisation of something that is meant to be internal."
Think you've got it.
"Bring it on- by all means"
Let's see - think would prefer to what maybe watch some boxing, cage fighting, naw seems too vicious maybe bull riding.
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And if I could push boundaries here.......... Did you know the meaning of Self (in the Upanishad of Hindu philosophy this is known as Atman). It is a state of pure being. It's totally different to the self sitting in front of the TV or who you see cleaning teeth in front of the mirror). It's moreso a State of Being, void of the grossness of the mind - the tainting from the darksides not yet scrubbed out. In the state of Self in it's truest form, there is no reaction to anything external. Solid centerdness and stillness. So still in fact that our little minds can't cognize it.
  
  Anyway, not to force a teaching in the finer arts of meditation (in it's purest form of course!) The initial intention of religion was to guide one back to this pure state. However, it seems to have achieved the opposite, or was it the way it was relayed? Anything that teaches that divinity is outside is going against the principal that we are divine. And blaming someone else for our reactions is the feeding of the beast that keeps us in the external game. Not an easy game, especially as the rulebook was sabotaged.
  
  So it begs that all important question we are addressing here: "What is the purpose of religion?" A means by which we remain ignorant perhaps. That's a flippant answer, but it's as good as any in my experience as a human.
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  Teresa McGurkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I really like what you're saying here, but I'm sleepy, and would like to mull it all over and come back to it tomorrow. I like the conclusion, too. You have given me a lot to think about -- thanks!
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jgrimes331posted 15 years ago
Ah I just realized something....

I got in the way of Sufi, Pam and others meeting and fun at spreading hate, bigotrary, and other demented views. I guess Pam was the President. Like Foster Gump says, "Sorry I got into a fight at your Black Panthers meeting!"
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Teresa McGurkposted 15 years ago
So, did we all agree, then, on the purpose of religion, and the true advantages of spirituality, or did I just walk into the set of Reservoir Dogs?
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Teresa excuse my ignorance, I've just been asked if I was a Mongolian. So if that qualifies me as ignorant I apologize.... But what does Reservoir Dogs mean? Thanks- Julie
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Teresa McGurkposted 15 years ago
It's a very bloodthirsty movie.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, well I don't know the movie so I'm out. Thanks for explaining. Julie
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Rochelle Frankposted 15 years ago
Julie-- I think a lot of this is all about misunderstanding. You said
"by all means feel free to defend a hate-Mongoliar spreading hate across the world wide web. "==
(Perhaps you were trying to say "hate monger"?)

and LG picked up on the unknown word which sounded like a country or language.

What's with calling other views "crap"? WWJS?
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  KCC Big Country called my posts crap and rants. They pointed out to everyone how they thought my ideas and opinion were laughable and crappy! I wasn't very Christ-like and returned the favor.... I know, I should've just let it slide but- I am tired of people acting like that towards me and when I snap back I AM THE BAD person. Ever been there? Do you know what I mean? Why did KCC have to go about calling my stuff crap in the first place? I don't think what I was saying was crap! I think them telling everyone it was a laughable, crappy rant wasn't right. I "struck the tomahawk on the post", as we Blackfoot Nation folks say. Was it right no... Did KCC Big Country have a problem with saying that stuff about me... No! Go back and read it for yourself. Hey, thanks for keeping me right with KARMA. Now wait- the haters will nail me with that one.... You'll see.
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  Rochelle Frankposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I've read it.
  You don't have to let it slide.
  You might have used it as an opportunity to rise above it, and prove your point. I was kind of hoping for that. Oh well, maybe next time.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, thanks for the advice. But why now should I always have to rise above things and nobody else gets told the same thing???? I see.... well I do try most times, but I think they were outta of line. But I'm a NEWBIE. It seems to be the code in which old hubbers stand by- stick together at all costs. I have a very good friend in hubpages. She WAS too afraid to back me up because everyone likes PGrundy and LG. I have kinda sort of met another hubber, who I think now as a friendly person. I emailed her and asked her advice about my posts. She said the same thing, Oh Pams a nice lady." What kind of nice lady calls people names???? Well i' sorry, if I see a bigot. I'll call like it is. There is no room for hate. But why don't you tell them what you told me? Is it because I'm the most vocal? Common, are we back to the McCarthy Era? I again apologize and respectfully request that you see I don't need you to tell me to rise above it. I need someone to them their HATE towards certain people IS WRONG. Each day is a new day, tomorrow I'll pray to be more compassionate concerning bigots and hate-mongers.
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jgrimes331posted 15 years ago
Oh another thing.... LG knew what I was trying to spell... I won't give them the benefit of the doubt. Just go check out her profile, click on her activity and start on page 7 or 8, I can't remember where I stopped- anyhow, go see for yourself how everytime I say something- their first initial response is nothing more than a mere insulting personal attack at me. No they don't attack anybody else. Just me... Yeh, I won't give them the benefit of the doubt. That would be accepting their horrible attacking behavior towards me. I won't do it any longer. I report something like 12 or 13 reports showing them how what she's really about. I even submitted my own. BUT Go check it out. I'd stay away from her- but bam they can't leave me alone. LONDONGIRL you'll see. Thanks for the pleasant thought. I wish I could.... I guess the CHRISTIAN in me won't allow that...

Again, wait.... Somebody will strike me down. Where's PGrundy and her opinions about Christians being nothing more than DEMENTED RELIGIOUS TERRORIST?????? I'm bitter now, I'm sorry... But I find that you asking me why I said someones work was crap to be ironic and somewhat of a sick joke after PGrundy's posts, LG's and KCC's threads. Especially in this forum. Yeap, PGrundy called people Demented, Terrorist. Said Religious people have judgment-fests. Said, people not like her where ruining her fun, and acting like religious terrorists. I take it she is not from New York City. I take it she didn't have any connections with the people who died in the World Trade Center. That is still no excuse for what she said. And EVERYONE got angry with me for pointing her hate out. Boy oh Boy, if I would have said what she said.....?

Hey want to play a game? I'll go to another post, under a different name and say the exact same thing she did...... What do you think the response would be towards a NEWBIE like me? Email me if you wanted try.

Again, thanks.
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Rochelle Frankposted 15 years ago
No, I don't like the game that much.
I will give most anyone the benefit of the doubt and am not much into judging people, which I think is scriptural.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But you like judging me...
  
  Okay, thanks I guess...
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goldentoadposted 15 years ago
Religion's purpose is to put me to sleep. Last time I was in church, I stabbed myself with a pen in my thigh to stay awake. Nothing has changed my view.
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  Cris Aposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Now why would you bring a pen to church if you know you would be needing it for stabbing yourself later when you are put to sleep?
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  KCC Big Countryposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  He was slipping notes to a girl on the pew in front of him.
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  goldentoadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There are alot of hot chicks at church that want to do naughty things, I try to score numbers, that was way back when you had to write a number down and not punch it into the cell phone.
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  Cris Aposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  well they might not be that hot afterall if you are lulled to sleep in the process
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  goldentoadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  no matter how hot the chick, when people start preaching to me, I just start going into a daze, and its like I am getting sucked into a vortex of nothingness.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You all are too funny. Thanks for the smiles.....Julie Night
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  Cris Aposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oh I thought that last bit happens AFTER church
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  goldentoadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I pray for it to happen
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  Cris Aposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  but you slept the rest through so your prayers weren't answered. i know now where you're coming from when it comes to religion. and why
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  goldentoadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  but whenever the old man would walk down the aisles with a bowl for the "tithes" I would always leave at least a five, didn't that count for anything?
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  Cris Aposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And you think this is all about buying your space in heaven?! How dare you!
  
  But to answer your question, it depends on your cummulative total
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  goldentoadposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  that would be five dollars then, I say you can fool me once, but not twice
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  Cris Aposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  i don't know with you toady, but i'm needing a break! I'll leave you be with your bottles! and i'll try to say one for you when I pass by a church.but i won't donate either. they can fool me never!
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Tom Cornettposted 15 years ago
I had a friend once who invited me to join his new religion. It sounded wonderful with the promise of brother and sisterhood, all living for one purpose. Everyone was equal and only heavenly voices would fill the air with song, conversation and worship.
It sounded like a grand plan! The more he talked, the more I began reading between the lines. Much of his wording put himself at the top of every order. He was to be the guide for the people. He was to be the minister of this great new religion. The church members were to give him a percentage of their wealth and he would build the new religion from it.
My first thought was "Simon Magus," who wanted to buy and sell the holy spirit. Simon had discovered the lazy man's way to riches and the popular Christian religion was born. People could pay ten percent to the church, worship one day a week and still be filthy souls. It was a win, win situation and it has grown tremendously in two thousand years.
My friend had caught on to Simon's business plan and was just putting a different spin on it. I am sure today, he has a flock and they are geting flocked! Religion is about power over people and the lust for gold. Spirituality is just as important in and athiest as it is in anyone. Spirituality is love and kindness to one another. It isn't cocking ones head back and blubbering dead Latin.
My best observation of religion is that God has to pay a thousand dollars to feed one child. The other $998 goes to new stained glass windows, steak dinners for the preacher and deacons, sabbaticals to exotic islands for the preacer and family, preacher perks and etc.
Jesus wanted us to build people, not churches. What house can man build God?
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Teresa McGurkposted 15 years ago
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so” (Mark Twain).

I like Twain's approach to the quicksand that is certainty -- he also said that confidence and ignorance, when united in one person, is bound to succeed -- so I've been thinking about another old adage: If you are full of certainty, you are really full of arrogant ignorance; if you believe you are full of arrogant ignorance, you are really full of wisdom. Or something like that.

If religion once, even just once, prevents us from thinking for ourselves, we are fools;

if tolerance once, even just once, allows us to open our hearts and minds to each other, no matter what the differences between us, there's hope for us after all.

Or something like that.

The Tower of Babel was built on certainty, and the punishment for that presumption was that we would find ourselves all speaking different languages, misunderstanding each other, and missing each other's meaning even when using the same idiom. It's a story, a fable, but it addresses the confusion that occurs when we try to impute our own understanding of the world into someone else's vision, and we end up confounding our own meaning, never mind the other person's.

If living well (i.e. doing the next right thing, no matter what) is what we are all aiming for, well and good.

If believing well (i.e. thinking what is taught, without listening to others) is our only concern, then we are missing an opportunity for right action, and the whole point.

If we think well of others, we are promoting tolerance and friendship.

If we think only ill of others, forgetting their good qualities and concentrating on what has hurt or confounded us, then we are going to be miserable.

But I suppose this sounds like jingoistic platitude. Maybe it is, but we tend to take from other's beliefs that which suits us most. My middle name must be jingo.
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LondonGirlposted 15 years ago
I think asking whether religion has a purpose is the wrong question.

If you are a believer of whatever religion, it's not about purpose, but about faith and truth.
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  Pestposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. Religion seems to be the rules and laws that govern any given faith.
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Paragliderposted 15 years ago
Well, I'm 56 and Scottish, and it was entirely commonplace to say Mrs X has a Mongol child, until maybe the mid 70's. The term was descriptive of the wide-set eyes and broad cheekbone structure characteristic of the Down's Syndrome child. The change in language did not of itself bring about a change in attitude. Around the same time, the words 'spastic' and 'cripple' became unacceptable.
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  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I just about remember that in the north of England, the term was used as an insult amongst children in the mid 70's. It has not been used for a long time, thankfully - it was a standard term amongst doctors a few decades ago, but developed a derogatory definition. Strange how words can twist, over time - have to ask Shades about that!
  
  I am a little older, LG, and I only just remember it
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  LondonGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I vaguely recall being told at school that Shakespeare used "housewife" to mean "hussy" or "tart". They can change both ways (-:
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  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mind you, if words did not change their meaning, there would be no innuendo. A world without the 'Carry On' movies
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LondonGirlposted 15 years ago
But presumably, not Mongolian?

Growing up in London in the 1980s and 1990s, "cripple", "spastic" or "retarded" were not in polite usage.
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Lady Guinevereposted 15 years ago
He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.

GEORGE ORWELL, Nineteen Eighty-Four
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fadyboyposted 15 years ago
Now when I started reading this post going by the title, I actually thought this would be interesting I wonder what peoples opinions are. Since then, I've seen the thread deviate from useful constructive debate to people abusing themeselves. Well I never.. From those who are religious to those who aren't. Each person or group telling the other not to shove their opinions or saying that the other is missing out or doomed. Whatever happened to just staying on topic people?? Anyway nothing in this world has meaning to it except for the belief you give it. And in saying that, I believe we should all respect each others beliefs(because that's what they are) no matter what it is. If you don't believe there's god that you're belief, fairplay to you. If you belief there's god, fairplay to you as well. I always say, whatever works for you. I'll tell you what I believe. I believe in God. That belief gives me comfort, it gives me purpose, it gives me a center. Don't ask me why, it's what I believe. I don't ask that you believe it too, all I ask is that you respect it. By the way, I respect your belief as well because I believe it is what makes you who you are today.

Peace!!
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  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Tell me where in any media such as this anyone stays on topic......can't be done unless you delete everyone who doesn't have the same things to say as you do. There are those that do that on hubpages.
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fadyboyposted 15 years ago
Fair comment, although I wasn't expecting anyone to take it literally. I was hoping we would all see the irony and perhaps humour of it.
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  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  To coin a phrase with a bit of a change:
  Forums are a bit like a box of chocolates--you never know what you are going to get--in return or what your comment may morph into!....... LOL
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LondonGirlposted 15 years ago
A much sadder world, that would be....
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Sufidreamerposted 15 years ago
Ooooh, Matron - My guilty little pleasure - I used to have pretty much every single one on video, but had to leave them in the UK.

I tried to persuade the boss-lady that we should leave a few things behind, so that I could squeeze in a few extra books, movies and my comics. She decided that a bed, refrigerator and cooker were far more important. I have almost forgiven her.........maybe another year or two

If, and when, we get broadband, the Carry On movies will be the first things that I download
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LondonGirlposted 15 years ago
Yay! Another Carry On fan - I love'em. My guilty pleasure.
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Teresa McGurkposted 15 years ago
NOOOOOoooooooooo! And you two, Sufi and LondonPuella: you were my HubpageHeroes. Now? Sheesh. Next you'll be telling me you watched Up Pompeii every week, with Frankie Howerd. . . (And Barbara Murray, Michael Hordern).
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Rochelle Frankposted 15 years ago
I never saw any of 'em. (Am I still on the good list/)
BTW Teresa, very good original question-- apparently we have exhausted it for now.
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  Teresa McGurkposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Exhausted it? Dang, Rochelle: it was exhausted, beat up, stomped on, fried in batter, sliced thinly, arranged on a plate, thrown out the window, and then eaten by wolves.
  
  Thanks, though. It would seem that the purpose of religion is to make us remember the really valuable things in life. Like Sid James's smile (I did like him, he looked like my da).
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LondonGirlposted 15 years ago
Never seen Up Pompeii - it doesn't really ring a bell, either. But Carry On Sargeant? Carry on At Your Convenience? Great stuff.
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Have you ever been to Pompeii - it's amazing. Worth a visit.
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  Sufidreamerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A very interesting place - very sad, though.
  
  Sometimes we forget about the human side of history - that brought it home.
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  Jewelsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Totally Sufi. I saw the movie (hollywoodophide), can't even remember the name of it, had political and religious themes as well. I was quite young. (The Last Days of Pompeii probably.) But Pompeii and the devastation stayed in my memory. I visited there in '91 and was like bringing something to life.
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jgrimes331posted 15 years ago
Off topic annoucement:

Lady is that a new picture? If it is I'm sorry for not noticing. But I really love it. Very nice girl! O Cheers!
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  Leta Sposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, , very fitting of a Lady Guinevere!
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  Lady Guinevereposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  It is a picture of Lady Guinevere. The full picture won't fit in the profile box., She is Knighting Sir Lancelot. So I used this one instead.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So you did change it.... Ah! I really like this one. She looks strong, yet peaceful and calm. Serenity comes to mind.
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jgrimes331posted 15 years ago
And I quote oh Marky Boy (Mark Knowles) again:

"As for being open-minded and un-biased. big_smile These do not go hand in hand with religion. What this means is, "Ready to believe in an invisible magical super being that has a set of rules for you......... And I know what those rules are." lol

As for being open-minded and un-biased. These do not do hand in hand with Mark Knowles.

You are a very proud, condescending, hypocritical Atheist aren't you? Oh I forgot Atheism has nothing to do with. Does your daddy?.;(
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  Rochelle Frankposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I am really dissapointed. Why do you go back to name-calling again?
  Are you trying to win Mark over? Would you feel inclined to even answer a post from him with Christian love if he called you similar names?
  
  Hey, you can call me anything you can think of and I will not reply in kind, because I think you may have some very good qualities.
  
  Just a random opinion.. it can be easily ignored.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Screw your disappointment. Where are you to criticize Mark? Lady, if you don't have a clue what's going on- STAY OUT OF IT!!!! I happen to be disappointed in your hypocritical position. Come on.... dish it out.
  
  Oh I forgot you don't like to judge people..... except me! Back off Chic you are outta of line.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  jgrimes - whilst I am still flattered that you have chosen me to work out some of your issues on, I don't think you are being fair to the rest of the forum users by cluttering up all the threads with your tirade.
  
  It causes me no particular hardship and I hope it is helping to prevent you from behaving this way with people you actually know. So go right ahead, but please have some consideration for every one else.
  
  Although - please do not send me any more personal emails. I have no interest in developing a relationship with you outside of the hubpages forum, and if you continue, I will start charging for therapy. 150 Euros per half hour. Two hours minimum payable in advance. We can take it from there.
  
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Rochelle Frankposted 15 years ago
Ok. No offense meant, and none taken-- peace and blessings.
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  jgrimes331posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  good and might I add.... whatever!
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RFoxposted 15 years ago
Yes and I do not understand this thread so it must be the work of the 'Dark Side.' Lol.

It started out so good and.....well........

And Mark....is that all you're charging nowadays for therapy?

I want a refund!

I must say I really don't understand why discussions revolving around Religion can cause such animosity, name-calling and anger.

But of course one of my primary aims is to win the battle against my ego and let go of any opinionated rantings.....sometimes I triumph and sometimes I go down in flames (there's that Devil reference again...lol.)

When I was a child my Mother always used to say, "There goes Rachelle on her soap box again."
Lately the soap box has at least had time to grow cobwebs in between usage.

So what is the purpose of Religion?
I honestly do not know.
I just know what philosophies have allowed me to transform and feel more joy and compassion. But that doesn't mean my path will work for anyone else.

I think it's good to remember that Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha and all the other Prophets marched to the beat of their own drum (some being persecuted for this very reason) and it was their inner voice they listened to not the word of the Leaders at the time. Just something to think about.

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Teresa McGurkposted 15 years ago
Great point -- compassion and tolerance have to come from within, and can't be "imposed" from an outer source.
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