THE FIGHT OF FAITH

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   Andrew0208posted 15 years ago

   1 Timothy 6:12
   Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
   
   The good fight of faith is the only allowed fight for any believer in Christ Jesus. What fight is it? Is this a fight with spears and arrows?A fight among religious bodies? Emphatically No!
   
   Then, what fight is it? 2 Corinthians 10:1-5 (King James Version)
   
     3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
   
   4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
   
   5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
   
   Faith maintains it's confession. Faith already won and prevailed.

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      SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Jud 1:3  Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
      
      What we contend with is spiritual in nature. Not a battle of flesh and blood. Our main weapon is the sword of truth.

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   Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

   I'll give that an Amen.

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      Andrew0208posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            What are your testimonies of victory in this recommended fight of faith?

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   Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

   My personal testimonies of victory are that I think I'm headed in the right direction if I stay the course.  It won't be a victory until then though. 
   
   As far as spreading the faith I can't be certain of that either.  But that's why I keep posting.  Only the reader knows for sure.  The Good Lord may tell me one of these days. 
   
   Can I put the question back to you Andrew?

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      Andrew0208posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      We're so blessed with the efficacy of God's word. The Word of God is the power of God unto salvation to them that believe. Right from the age of 13, i have always wanted to experience and see the same manifestation of God's Spirit as it is written in the Scriptures. Some folks made us to believe that the Bible is just a history book. Anyway, in my little studies and quest to know the power of His resurrection, i found out that Wisdom is the Principal thing and God's word is beyond the concept and understanding of Self, Science, and Religion.
      
      The Lord said in the book of Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." 
      
      The presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives is a Big plus. The Fight of Faith is a fight that considers not the opposition(circumstances of life) but looks strongly unto God's Word in faith through meditation, believing, and confessing same. I say them out to myself always till they sink right inside my spirit man. The Word Works!

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   Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

   And another Amen

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      sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I agree... The word works!  http://thanksgod.org/?page_id=42/discus … ommandment
      
      Never in my life would I have even thunk it to see how the Spirit manifest inward and outward. 
      

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   Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

   It's very noticeable in your posts these days Sandra.

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      sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks Mike.

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   Andrew0208posted 15 years ago

   Let us identify respectively the weapons and strategies for the fight of faith. What are they?

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      aka-djposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      What they are NOT,is "carnal"! But they ARE strong, to thepulling down of strongholds.!!!!

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      Inspirepubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I have heard that the principal weapons are fear, surprise, and a ruthless dedication to the Pope ... but that was a Catholic tradition.
      
      Seriously, though - there is no better weapon than a humble and searching self-examination. When one finds oneself to be without sin (aka mistake, misjudgement, error of perception), then can one seek the mote in one's brother's eye ...
      
      Jenny

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      Paragliderposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I'm interested in understanding why the Christian tradition is so addicted to militaristic analogies, while Eastern spirituality is far less so.
      
      Onward Christian Soldiers
      Marching as to war
      With the cross of Jesus
      Going on before
      
      Christ the royal Master
      Leads against the foe
      Forward into battle
      See his banners go.
      
      It's a strangely anachronistic imagery, no?

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         aka-djposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I have to say, that you have no enemies. :
         I mean you clearly stated that you are "not a sinner", therefore you have no fight. To us, sin and death, desease, fear, etc are enemies. Satan is out to "steal, kill and destroy" (John.10:10). So, he too is an enemy. The "lust of the flesh" is an enemy.   Even Jesus said he did not come to bring peace, but division. So, the imagery is appropriate and helpful.

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            Paragliderposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks. It's an interesting list. You are welcome to sin and satan as necessary adjuncts of your faith. But death, disease and fear and even what I understand by 'the lust of the flesh' are common to humanity at large. I don't think Christians have any special monopoly on either the issues or their resolution. But I do think the 'battle' imagery usually backfires. Consider, for example the failed War on Drugs or the War on Terror. Siege mentality can be a sign of spiritual poverty.

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               SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               The seige is against our own flesh. If done properly, the spirit will thrive. The flesh is against the spirit and the spirit is against the flesh. It is an ongoing battle. The flesh hates God, but the spirit loves God.

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                  Paragliderposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Personally, I don't believe that, but just out of interest, is the same true (in your opinion) of Chimpanzees?

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                     SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     I am not exactly sure what you are asking. If you are asking do chimpanzees war against the flesh in the same way, I have to say no. They were not created in the image and likeness of God. They have never sinned. They cannot sin. Man has sinned and come against God. It is for this reason that Goid made the way for man to come backl to His Grace and Mercy.
                     
                     If this is not what you meant by your question, please just let me know.

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                     aka-djposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Chimpanzees? Meaning what? How deeply are you interested in taking the issue. If I understand your intention, then no, it does not affect them, because they are not in the same "spiritual" class as man. (Jesus did not die for "the sins of " chimps).

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                        sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        or like the description Jesus gave about the trees.  "Even this tree is more obedient than you, a tree does not argue when the wind blows it to move."  something like that, or even an animal is more obedient than you, they don't question their origins, they already know.
                        
                        For them it is not a question of faith.

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                           Paragliderposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           Sandra - obedience does not equate with virtue. The Nurnberg defence was 'I was obeying orders'

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                              sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              I am just wondering why you assumed that I was equating obedience with virtue?

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                                 Paragliderposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                 You seemed to be suggesting that obedience in belief was a good thing? Maybe not?

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                                    sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                    I dunno, but a tree doesn't "believe" in God because a tree is already perfect and in other words, that having a belief to justify our origins is a human imperfection. 
                                    
                                    Of course don't take that statement for more than what it is so that we end up getting started on another negative annotation.
                                    
                                    ... but no other creature, animal, plant, fish etc... does this, just humans and I don't know that many or any people view other animals as imperfections but say they are perfect for what they are, but humans make this assumption???  Animals that have a defective offspring just do what they are going to do with it, kill it nurture it whatever it is they do, but humans make an association that an animal that kills its "defective" offspring is bad, because to us we couldn't do such a thing to our own (for the most part anyways) so they assume the animal is bad, but is it really?  No, I don't think so.
                                    
                                    That is all I am saying.  Leave God out of this particular part of the discussion and say you could ask a chimp where it came from... it will probably point to it's mother.  Ask a chimp if it is like a human it might just raise an eyebrow, lol- thinking humans have got to be the strangest and most confused of all creatures.  
                                    
                                    And so it goes... the human believes the chimp is the less intelligent one. lol
                                    
                                    Humans deserve a classification all our own.
                                    
                                    and yes Misha, "how do you know that we aren't already perfect?" -  because if we were perfect there wouldn't be so much disorder.  Now finding order in chaos, that is a different question about what comes out of the human bunch. 
                                    
                                    I think I went off on a tangent, sorry.

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                  Inspirepubposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Oh, this is such a sad, sad, outlook. How lonely, how separate, how despairing would one be to live in that state?
                  
                  I have found that being present in the flesh is the fastest path to connection with God, Universal Energy, or whatever you call it.
                  
                  Setting the spirit against the flesh makes one into "a house divided", and as a result one has extremely limited access to spiritual strength.
                  
                  Integration of mind, heart, body, and spirit is an essential for living a truly spiritual life, as far as I can see. I have never met a person at war with themselves who was capable of bringing peace by their mere presence. All the people I know who have that capability are very much connected and integrated and accepting of all parts of their human and Divine nature.
                  
                  Jenny

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            sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            That is what I got too, course my wording goes, His purpose was to sort out the good and bad.  The good use faith, peace and seek what is good in a field of blood, the bad seek blood in a field of good.  Something like that.
            
            Though I am totally with you on the enemy being death, sin (temptation, how you feel about yourself etc...) fear.  Amen...  not a weapon against the flesh or the spirit of anyone but by good you weed out what is bad.
            
            Excellent thoughts aka dj. 

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      Andrew0208posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      The Word of God is an arrow of the Spirit.

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      Andrew0208posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      The Word of God is an arrow of the Spirit.

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   aka-djposted 15 years ago

   PS. People are NOT our enemies. We are not at war with "humans"! I have great disdain for killing in the name of religion as much as all of you, (atheists included).

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      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yes but your statements are confusing. You are saying that disease and death are enemies. I might as well make the wind my enemy for all the good I can do fighting that.
      
      And if your enemies are all internal, why do so many of you accuse others (external people) of being satan?
      
      Easy to see how the verse that Paraglider added could be turned in to an external fight against others. Oh yes - (looks in a few history books and checks the news for the last month) that does still seem to happen.

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   MBP42posted 15 years ago

   It is up to a person what they believe but chimpanzees are not capable of rational thought on a level with human beings so they probably don't consider if the flesh hates God. As followers of God and for some of us of Jesus we believe in a bible that contains certain precepts. According to the Old Testament God gave man certain rules about blood sacrifice involving animals for their sins to be forgiven by God. God knew man would not be able to keep these rules so He sent His only son Jesus who is the Christ to be our blood sacrifice for sins. According to the bible if we profess Jesus with our mouths we receive salvation and redemption from sin. Faith is a choice not an accident.
   Sincerely,
   MBP

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   Paragliderposted 15 years ago

   I'm not so sure you (3) can be so certain about Chimpanzees. I think there is little doubt that human (and chimp) intelligence is a continuum. Some top chimps are more capable of rationality than some particularly unfortunately disadvantaged humans. Which makes me wonder if there is a level of imbecility below which you'd say that such a human can't sin? If so, is such a one automatically saved, or simply not part of the picture?
   
   You see, to me, the Christian tradition is far too obsessed with human sin and far too uninterested in the rest of this wonderful world. In this, it is very different from some other traditions.

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      aka-djposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I believe the former.
      
      Tradition, being the operative word. What did Jesus say about that?
      As for the rest of "creation", I love it. Nature doco's are one of my favorites. I just hate evolution being "shoved down" my throat all through it. NG, being the worst at it!

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         Paragliderposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I don't remember Jesus saying much about tradition as such. I remember he wasn't very nice to a fig tree once, not to mention a few hapless swine, so maybe he wasn't a great nature lover?

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            aka-djposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            One last post before I retire. He rebuked a jewish religious leader, for upholding tradition over obedience to the will and word of God.
            As for the other, the swine committed "swine-icide". He did not kill them. But to finish on a good note (slightly sarcastic), He will destroy this planet, with fire, and make everything anew. He made it, and rules over it. So, He will determine it's end. Hope to see you at the end!

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            sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I always thought the "don't give a swine a pearl" meant, why do you give a man who needs nothing more of what he doesn't need and not give a poor man who needs everything what he does or ask for?

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               Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Interesting where you got that? There is nothing written about poor or rich in this particular spot of the bible. And for me it alwyas sounded as "don't give people what they did not grow to appreciate yet, because it's a waste - give it to people who can appreciate what you are giving and will find a good use for it."
               
               Pretty sound advice if you ask me, may be just slightly offensive wording - but they did not know political correctness back then

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                  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Well I certainly appreciate the thought and accept it as also correct, I would only like to say, there isn't really a such a thing as political correctness today either lol. 
                  
                  Also, I think (though while I am still with your thoughts about this) that the book as a collective whole serves the purpose of understanding the many different things there are to understand about the parables. 
                  
                  
                  oh ps.  I didn't say anything about rich or poor.  but that would be something you would understand from the Bible as well. 

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               Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               And if "a man who needs nothing" does not imply rich at least in one of the meanings, I think I have to go back to learning English

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                  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  yes and poor as it is in the bible doesn't always mean money wise.  ;P
                  
                  which is what I believe you were assuming I meant.

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                  sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  well exactly Misha, ever seen a poor man (homeless or other wise etc. ) reject help?  Because he just may be happy the way he is.   Which might make a person wonder why the rich (and I mean with money) keep asking for more.

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         Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         So - how do you guys measure this? IQ? Some other test?
         
         When are you too stupid to be an automatic sinner? I mean if I am a really bright kid and therefore a sinner, if I then grow up to be stupid or have an accident or something - do I get a free pass?

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      SirDentposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Until one comes to a knowledge of right and wrong, good and evil, they cannot in fact be made accountable for their sins.Though they do and can sin, they have no idea they are sinning or doing wrong. As far as one being saved or not, it is up to God. He did give guidelines for us to follow.
      
      King David wrote, "I was conceived in iniquity." it means he was conceived in the flesh.
      
      Christian tradition is not so much obsessed with sin, bit is obsessed with salvation. Salvation through Christ who is the Savior.

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      Aya Katzposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I can't speak for all chimpanzees, but I can tell you that Bow lies, and he does so in order to deceive and he knows that it's "bad".

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         Paragliderposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I was hoping you'd find this comment. The Fundamentalists don't seem to recognise the continuity. I was pretty sure you'd understand the point.

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    Mishaposted 15 years ago

    So you DID mean rich

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       sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       not in the first context.

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    Mishaposted 15 years ago

    LOL, how you put it  - whateva
    
    You have your own understanding, I have my own - we both are good

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       sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       exactly!  My God says, Whateva!  LOL.  good is good.

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    Dleigh37posted 15 years ago

    The problem with religion is that people do not even understand what religion is. Most people quote the bible, which although important, most of it's information is outdated, and doesn't apply to this society. Take for example, "be fruitful and multiply". This was said during a time when the world was basically empty. It isn' to be taken into consideration today when the world is over-populated.
    
    An eye for an eye? This was a direct punishment from God, usually, and unless GOD speaks to you directly (hearing voices doesn't count), then you have no right to harm another human being.
    
    The war of religion against religion? This is what happens when people who cannot think for themselves create issues.
    Most religions are very similiar in that, they each have "guidelines" , "rules" , "commandments" to follow that make you a BETTER person.
    
    This does not apply to  the religions that were created by crazy men, who were probably undiagnosed schizophrenics. There is no help for these people, because they don't have enough common sense to know that any real GOD would not want you to harm yourself, or anyone else in his name. ( put the bibles aside, as most quotes apply at a different time, and a different place)
    
    Religion itself is not a bad thing, as it is meant to make us better people. It is the interpretation by people, at their own whim, that  give religion a bad name.
    
    Yes, it is people that are responsible for creating the issues surrounding religion, and it is not the religions themselves (again, not talking about the crazy people creating their own religions)

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