If you do not stop fighting between yourselves now...

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   Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years ago

   If you do not stop fighting over the small things now (religion, party politics, etc), this real fight will be over before you've thought about it.
   
   The freedom gained by generations fighting on your behalf for the last three or four centuries will be lost.
   
   http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/
   
   Do you know what Agenda 21 is?
   
   If not, why not?

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      paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The good news is that this P.O.C. was created 20 years ago and has apparently gotten nowhere.
      
      Here is to another 20 years!

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      prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Sustainable Development is mainly the balance between Population, Resources and Environment - PRE framework. Wise usage of resources so that we don't compromise future generation.
      
      I think that some nations didn't endorse it specifically the US during the Bush H W time, he said, "American way of life should not be compromised", or "The American Way of Life is Not Negotiable" meaning reduce usage of gas etc. If I was not mistaken, US want China to reduce coal usage first before they will sign the Kyoto Protocol. Most European countries went green and endorsed the Kyoto protocol then. Agenda 21 was done after Kyoto Protocol.
      
      Agenda 21 is a very useful framework for the preservation of natural resources.

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         paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         A voluntary, guideline-suggestion type framework sounds ok…

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            prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            yes, guess it is more difficult to implement as it generally affects lifestyle.

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               Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, it does affect lifestyle.
               
               I think the problem with saying something like, "It can never happen here" is that there are too many cases of 'famous last words.'

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         Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Depends how you view it...
         
         
         
         http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/10/ … neigh.html
         
         
         http://habitat.igc.org/agenda21/

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            prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            LOL< That made me laugh out loud. the americanthinker.gov site views about it.
            
            Agenda 21 is the effort of representative/delegates from 178 countries who met in Brazil on 1992 which was commissioned by the The United Nations Conference on Environment and Development (UNCED). They came up with that 700 plus bluepring Agenda 21.
            
            The principle is good but it entails a sweeping policies/change which could change how we peruse resources and how to safeguard environment in general.
            
            This might be helpful in terms of what is the US position on global environment politics  - http://www.polisci.ufl.edu/usfpinstitut … hapter.pdf
            
            US participation or endorsement is imp as they consume so much of the world resources http://earthtrends.wri.org/updates/node/236

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               Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               American Thinker... I'm playing devil's advocate over here...
               
               So, yes, the US traditionally doesn't want to change her lifestyle.
               
               So, what are the answers?

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                  prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't know Angelique, all I know is that Aus and Europe are more compliant, they are greener.

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                     Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Yup. I'm peeved. I did this eco footprint test. Normally, my footprint is about 20% of what everybody else's is. This time it said that the earth would need 3.8 plants in order to keep me afload.
                     
                     I emailed them.
                     
                     Their reply?
                     
                     Well,you're living in America. Every person there is responsible for what is being used...

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                        prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        everybody is held responsible for the gains of the few - is it like that?

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                           Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Well, yes.
                           
                           When I was studying history decades ago at school, the teacher said, "The people of a country are responsible for the government of a country."

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                              prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              profit by few, but responsibility for all

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                                 Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 

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                                 Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 except the ones who profit.

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Sophia:
      
      Down thru the ages, the "compassionate" facet of man's character has been naught but "idealism" to the nth degree.
      
      Man is man! He is a crafty creature filled with guile and deceit!
      
      His survival has proved this point.
      
      He has become so adept at offering lip service to survive and gain, that one must take his "mouthings" as propaganda in every sense of the word.
      
      For instance, the words of the "The universal Declaration of Human Rights" are deliciously warm and wonderful, but in fact represent "idealism" to the zenith!
      
      As man exists at this stage of his evolution, predation is too powerfully ingrained in his genetics to be sublimated into a more civil and sociable attitude for existing.
      
      Agenda 21 is a thoughtful, compassionate rendering of man's hope and desires...but, disgustingly, that's all it is.
      
      Fruition is impossible.
      
      Qwark

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         Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         @Qwark.
         
         "predation is too powerfully ingrained in his genetics"
         
         For some more than others.

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      lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yes its another way to take money from people and control their lives. One thing is for sure if the UN is involved, its corrupt.

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      AnnCeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Always remember and never forget, there are more of us than there are of them. 

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         Hugh Williamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         ...both real and imagined.
         
         http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2536826/posts

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            AnnCeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Oh good, a stalker.  Daisy Khan thanked a hand for the World Trade Center Mosque site too.  Ahh fun times...
            
            http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/46002

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               Hugh Williamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               Then I guess we've settled the issue of who has "HAND?"

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   knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

   You going to make me look it up?

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   knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

   "So, what are the answers?" They are going to have to be socialist, which means honest government and commonalities of interests like air and water, and not criminal exploitation pitting everyone against everyone.

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      Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, it's essentially socialist.
      
      However, there's no such thing as truly socialist in a structure that they're planning. Essentially, the big boys at the top will be living it up and it will be much like communism. My thoughts for what they are worth.
      
      However, something does need to be done. We will kill ourselves off if we continue using the planetary resources the way we are.
      
      Yes, you do have to look it up. Tired of people commenting on things they haven't bothered to research...

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         AnnCeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Hear hear!

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         tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Socialism and capitalism have one thing in common, there are a privileged elite few and then there are the worker bees who work to provide their comforts. Different names , same results.

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            Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            @Tony. Two sides of the same coin. Same as Dems and GOP. Two sides of the same coin. It's the coin that has to change - not the side.
            
            I tried for years to make people put their thinking caps on and come up with a new system. To no avail, they are locked into their sides...

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               ShortStoryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               YOU tried to "make" the entire country move from the two-party system? Leaving aside the ridiculous arrogance inherent in that statement, how did you try to do that and why?

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                  Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  @Short Story. No, I did NOT try and make the entire country move from a two party system. You do rather read things into statements, don't you.
                  
                  I said 'people'. That's a general form and it can refer to any number of people. In this particular contest I meant the people around me. And I did not try to force them away from a two party system.
                  
                  I merely asked the same question over and over again, "What other system is workable, considering the numbers, the problems, the technology."

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                     recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     You are totally wasting your time with shortstory - he is a forum troll.
                     
                     You are of course absolutely correct in pointing out that what is needed is a different way of dealing with things.  The virtual slavery of the mass is pretty much complete - right to the point where many of them think this is 'normal' and even try to defend their condition.

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                        ShortStoryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Thank you for the personal insult. I'm flattered you would take the time to think of me.

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                        Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Thanks for the info recommend1. )

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                     ShortStoryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     And what was your solution?

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               prettydarkhorseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Hi Sophia and Tony, good day. It is us then who will change, not the economic system because after all we can change for the better  - civil coexistence (in the real world) or in the forum - civil discourse/debate.
               
               Could be also that "it is not the consciousness that determines the being, but the being is determined by consciousness". This structure of economy (our economic conditions) forced people to become what they are unconsciously.

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                  Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Prettydarkhorse. I'm not sure that everybody is conscious!
                  
                  I don't know the why's and wheretos.
                  
                  I just know that if we don't start living together civilly, then, because we have sufficient weapons of mass destruction, we will destroy ourselves.

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                     ShortStoryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     And when in history could we have not said the same? Yet here we are.

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               tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Tony. Two sides of the same coin. Same as Dems and GOP. Two sides of the same coin. It's the coin that has to change - not the side.
               
               Sophie in a perfect world with perfect beings that might be possible, but human beings are flawed. And no matter what the system there will always be some fighting for a little bigger slice of the pie. It is far beyond Dem and GOP. Utopia is not possible.

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                  Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  yes, there is that...
                  
                  
                  
                  But without the coin changing, we will destroy ourselves.
                  
                  I have always believed that religion arose as a means of getting the masses to be nice to each other so that they didn't destroy each other.

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                     tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     But without the coin changing, we will destroy ourselves.
                     
                     I hate to be such a cynic but I think our destruction is well under way. Religion is not a factor , the duplicitous heart of humans is the factor.

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                        Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Yes, I think religion was trying to change the heart of man, but has failed hopelessly.
                        
                        

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            Sufidreamerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            

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               tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you Sufi. How ya doin ?

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   lady_love158posted 13 years ago

   The answer is America has to take what's ours before we are rendered too weak to do so!

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      John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      But why do you need any strength to take what is your's?
      
      Surely you only need strength to rob!

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         lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Might makes right! Lol

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            John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            So you're saying that you think you are entitled to any damned thing in the world that you want!
            
            Hmm.

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         ShortStoryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         If you don't realize that it takes strength to keep what's yours you are not living in the real world.

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            John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            There is a world of difference between taking and keeping.

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               lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               2200 years ago a devastating drought hit Egypt which ended pyramid building and the rule by pharoes it affected the entire region north africa and even italy and greece and lasted more than a decade. People were starving to the point where they were eating their own children as they sought refuge with food and water.
               Do you think Americans will sit by and suffer without adequate energy supplies when we have the might to take what we need?
               I'm afraid even the socialist left would rather have heat than be held hostage by some 3 rd world nation with more than enough supply.

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                  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  And you claim never to have said anything distasteful!

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                     lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Well that's just reality. The libs want to create a dependency class where everyone relies on the government for their needs. What happens when the government can't supply them with their needs? We have seen what happens in Greece, London and WI with demonstrations and violence. When people are self reliant and responsibile for their own well being they adapt. The libs want dependency and chaos so they can seize power and better to have the power to keep people dependent than not,  no?

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                        Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Lady Love. Not the dems do NOT wwant dependency. They want the opportunity to earn an honest living. And that is NOT what they are getting. Laws have been legislated so that big business gets it all. They shouldn't be entitled to tax loop holes. Nor should they get away with a lot of what they are.
                        
                        This country has the least labor law to protect workers. Everywhere else in the world one gets paid leave ranging from three weeks to six weeks per year. Here one has to work oneself to death or starve.
                        
                        That's what I mean about virtual slavery. The laws of this country need to enable people to earn a decent living. Then there wouldn't be a need for dependency.

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                           ShortStoryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           dems don't want dependency? You're kidding, right?

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                           ShortStoryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Got a link to some proof of "the least labor laws to protect workers"? I imagine, 'protect' means something different to you than it does objectively, but anyway...
                           
                           
                           And thank you for the example above that emoting and economics don't mix in a way that produces anything practical.

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                        John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        What rot!
                        
                        It's the right who want us all to be mindless automata.
                        You are a classic example of the thoughtless followers that they require.

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                           tony0724posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Actually John she is right on the mark.

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                              lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Lol! The left are sheep clinging to government for their needs begging to be taken care of they don't even realize they are pawns in a power struggle!

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                                 John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 Whereas you do realise that you are a pawn the rights power struggle?

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                              John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Can't agree Tony, do you really think the left is all about oppression and the right a beacon of freedom!

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               ShortStoryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Depends on what side of the equation you are standing on.

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                  John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes oh self appointed representative of the rulers of the World.

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      Hugh Williamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It's hard to believe that any genuine American would make a statement like this. This again raises the question of who you really represent on HP.
      
      Every post you make is designed to showcase the worst side of the U.S.
      
      Tell me I'm wrong.

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         lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Lol! Sometimes I just can't help myself!

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            Hugh Williamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            It's far less than funny.
            
            What's the agenda?

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               lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Really you people shouldn't take everything I post so seriously! Can't you tell when I'm just pulling your chain? Lol!
               There sure is a lot of hate for me here!

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                  DTR0005posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I agree.. I rarely take you seriously....

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                  Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  "Can't you tell when I'm just pulling your chain? Lol! "
                  
                  No, I honestly can't. You say so many distasteful things earnestly, it's hard to tell when you say something distasteful as a joke.
                  
                  
                  "Really you people shouldn't take everything I post so seriously!"
                  Oh, don't worry, that's not going to be a problem....

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                     lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I've never said anything distasteful!

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                        Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        you slay me!
                        
                        ...oh, you weren't kidding about that, were you?

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      Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      @Lady Love. I'm not sure I want to dignify that comment with a response.

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      Doc Snowposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Done, and done again.
      
      Also a bunch of stuff that arguably isn't/wasn't 'ours'--including the land comprising the US and Canada, all of which was taken by force and/or guile.  Well, as I said, it's 'done'--history now, and no more.
      
      But adjurations to America to 'take what's ours' are--breathtaking.
      
      And, IMO, the only thing that's likely to render America 'too weak' is the contempt of, and disregard for, physical reality and the science that describes it most accurately, which is displayed and promoted by certain America ideological groups and corporate interests.

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      Pearldiverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What Sort of Arrogant Statement is that?
      
      No wonder NZ kicked that sort of BS Rationale in regards to your nuclear warships out of OUR 200 Mile Exclusion Zone, when you were still in disposable nappies! 
      
      Amazing... and Ignorant

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         ShortStoryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Please don't pretend that New Zealand doesn't exist as an independent, sovereign nation at the pleasure of those far more powerful and significant. Be proud of your beautiful country, but don't be unrealistic.

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            John Holdenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            As Pearldiver said "Amazing and arrogant"

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               ShortStoryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Just realistic.

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   knolyourselfposted 13 years ago

   "It's hard to believe that any genuine American would make a statement like this." So do I have to be a genuine American to post around here?

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      lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Some people act like America is the only country in the world!

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      Hugh Williamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Not really.
      
      But it helps if you can tell BS when you read it and if you know you're being played.

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         lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Awww... I sorie

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   Hugh Williamsonposted 13 years ago

   The internet is now the most powerful tool there is to promote anything. Including an agenda.
   
   It has become so common that it has a name, "astroturfing."
   
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing

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      lady_love158posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah that's what Pelosi called the Tea Party... I'm pretty sure we can all agree she was wrong!

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      Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      @Hugh. That's fascinating. Thanks for the link!

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         Hugh Williamsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You're welcome. When people sign up to HP just to tweak noses and not to write, I always wonder about their motivation.

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      Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hugh. Ironically, I am just in the throes of writing an article dealing with this. Thank you for the link. Didn't know about it.

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   Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years ago

   Oh, and just in case you forgot... something we should be preparing for...
   
   Instant ice age!!!
   
   http://www.kubby.com/GlobalStorming/index.html

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      Amanda Severnposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      
      Amazing! Hollywood has a vested interest in making films about extreme subjects like the sudden weather shifts in '2012' and 'The Day after Tomorrow'. Cinema goers just love disaster movies. However, so called weather experts prefer a more cautious approach. That is, until the rug gets pulled out from beneath their feet! Truth is, nobody wants to hear bad news. Isn't that exactly how the financial collapse happened three years ago?

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         Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It's nice to be an ostrich... put one's head in the sand and it will all blow past you....
         
         Um. no.

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      Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Funny you should say "Instant Ice Age." I discovered a film called "Absolute Zero" while researching an article about movies and cocktails that go together. It's about exactly that: the Earth getting flash-frozen. Ludicrous.
      
      By the way, the matching cocktail is called an Absolut Zero.

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         Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         @Jeff. I don't know how accurate the science is on that. But it was on the History Channel. I've read about Elf Transmitters before and they can do certain things.
         
         The last ice age did hit so suddenly that it killed all the dinosaurs. There have been various theories. The earth fell of its axis. A major meteor hit. Some things we will never know until it's too late!
         
         Case in point. Japan built sea walls for tsunamis. Only they were for earthquakes for  7 on Richter scale, Nobody considered a 9!

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            Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            No, I mean, flash frozen. Not geologically sudden, but like boom! Instant Earthsicle, no waiting.
            
            Also, the last ice age was long after the dinosaurs were gone.

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               Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Jeff. Okay, gotcha.
               
               How many ice ages were there? I distinctly remember reading up about dinosaurs (or something) being frozen in their tracks with berries still in their stomach. The food that was in their stomachs was from a completely different climate zone.f
               
               What am I confusing???

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                  Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  How many ice ages were there?
                  
                  About five. The last geologically significant one happened during the age of mammals, and that's when critters like woolly mammoths and saber-tooth tigers and such developed. (Cave men, too!) This is the one people are usually talking about when they say "The Ice Age." There's been talk of a mini-ice age that happened during the Tudor dynasty in England. Global temps took a wee dip, but not deep enough or long enough to get glaciers across Europe again.
                  
                  Interestingly, some climate scientists believe that global warming will result in a localized ice age in Eurasia, as the melting of the polar ice shifts the Gulf Stream, the (relatively) warm flow of which keeps Northwestern Europe mild in the winters. Only time will tell if they're right.
                  
                  I hadn't read that about dinos being "frozen in their tracks." Do you recall the book's title? I can believe it, though; all kinds of strange stuff has been found with dino bones.

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                     Sophia Angeliqueposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Jeff, thanks for the info. I should know this. (Did a geology class or two.)
                     
                     No, I can't remember where I read it but it was a while ago. In fact, I've read quite a few references to it over the years. I'm wondering, though, if I got the species confused.
                     
                     I'll try to google it!

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