New Flagging Reasons

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   esllrposted 14 years ago

   Sorry just bewildered..

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      Joy56posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      send me an e.mail, if you want me to give you some help with making your hubs easier for us to understand.  i like editting.

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         esllrposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks Joy56!

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            Denise Handlonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I'd be happy to help also.  I know it is confusing.  Sorry you are so frustrated.

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               esllrposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you so much Denise. Very thoughtful.

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   Michael Willisposted 14 years ago

   Just finished Hub Hopping. I really like the New Listing and the explanation that is added to the choices of how to report a hub. It makes it a lot easier.
   
   Just to clarify something...I would take a hub that is all one paragraph and like 500 words as poorly structured. It would be hard to read in this format. Is this what HP is using this term for? Or something similar?
   
   Also flagged a duplicate content in which I believe is a "duplicate author." Wasn't sure how HP would want a flag for this, so I just entered the link to the supposedly 2nd author account into the explanation box of one of the authors profile page.  (Different usernames, but same content in Hubs by both authors.)

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   QudsiaP1posted 14 years ago

   Oh phew... Thank goodness you guys do not moderate poetry because it is really hard to write poems on vegetarians and going green global health.

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4. 89

   Denise Handlonposted 14 years ago

   So, I'm throwing this out here because it really has been quite confusing, frustrating and disappointing to me.  First, I make very little money on this site.  I don't write (seriously) for the money, but for the creative expression.
   
   Lately, with all of the threads going around about hub hopping and flagging people's hubs; moderating, and tweaking and revising and nonpublishing and resubmitting for publication...
   
   it all has an air of McCarthyism...or Salem Witch Trials...or Nazism...sorry, it is just where I am at right now with all of it. 
   
   The enjoyment of just writing, posting, and getting feedback is gone.  Now I look over my shoulder, wonder if my writing is going to be viewed as 'substandard' again (god I hate that word-so insulting), or worse, that I've pissed someone off and now they have decided to flag me. 
   
   Just my opinion and experience right now.

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   1. 66

      lakeerieartistsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      This is understandable that you feel that way.  What is happening is a clean up of the site, of truly substandard content, that is holding the site back of ranking well on search engines, especially Google.  It is not meant to be any kind of witch hunt, but to find the true spam, duplicate content, and poorly written articles that are clogging up the site.
      
      This is huge job for the Hubpages staff and they are asking for hubbers to help by going through hubs to flag questionable content. 
      
      Flagging brings it to the staff's attention, but that is all.  It is the staff moderators who make the decisions as to whether hubs violate the Hubpages TOS.

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   2. 70

      Michael Willisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      There are so many that will open accounts here just to spam or use HP as a "backlink" to their own pages somewhere else. There are those who slip through the filters with hubs that should not be published for various reasons.
      The bottom line is that Google slapped HubPages and it has cost all of us for that.
      HP has asked, even before this happened, to help mark (flag) those hubs to help HP keep this site as a reputable writers site. I see no issue with that at all. Since we cannot "unpublish" anyone's hub, but only bring it to the attention of a moderator.
      HP makes the decision to unpublish any hub, not the members!
      
      I have seen some even say "It is the job of HP to do this." That is fine, but they would have to hire people to do this and where would the money come from? Would HP make this a "pay for the service" site? I am glad that HP is Free for us to use and am happy to help in any  way I can for the site.
      
      The only Hubs that I have or will ever flag are those that are in violation of HP rules. Even if I can't stand what someone has written, if it is within the rules, I just skip over it.
      And those who do not like to flag Hubs, then just Don't!

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         EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         One of my hubs was unpublished as overly promotional today.  So I reduced the number of Amazon products on it, and checked the rest of my hubs to make sure that they weren't falling foul of the 50 words per Amazon product rule either.  It turns out that the vast majority of the hubs on that account DID fall foul of the rule, even though I'd edited them all a first time when they were highlighted by HP's content flagging thingy a couple of months ago.
         
         Basically what I'm saying is that I had to do the same job twice over.  Effectively, I have just paid with two hours of my time to avoid the fate of being banned outright.  So as far as I'm concerned HP is now a paid service, because I'm sure this is not the only hoop we'll have to jump through.
         
         Although I've done the occasional bit of hub hopping in the past, I don't think I'll bother any more.  Leave it to the people who are paid an actual wage by HP.  Because let's face it, what you and I earn on HP isn't anything like what you'd call an "actual wage".

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            Michael Willisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Any time I work on a hub, post in forums can then be considered my "paid time" to me then.  And I am making less for my time here since the Google slap as well as others.
            It is frustrating to re-work a hub over an over again to meet guidelines, but obviously necessary if I want to keep publishing here, so I just do it.

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               EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, but doesn't it bother you just a bit when you have to do the same job twice?

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               1. 70

                  Michael Willisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes it does. I hate to have to do something twice. But sometimes it is necessary. I have had to fix hubs as well.
                  I would rather do it here than some of the sites out there though. I did not have to "submit" an article to be considered for membership at HubPages. I do not pay for their service with money, just my personal time that I choose to give.
                  Everyone's time is important...we agree there I am sure.
                  My main point is that HP gives us access to write here at no monetary cost to us and I hope it stays that way instead of them having to hire a crew to have to physically filter every single hub that is written. And then adding the cost to us as members. I don't see HP as wanting to do that either.

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                  1. 66

                     lakeerieartistsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     You are correct about this, but for some, like me, it is also just a matter of time.  I am constantly prioritizing my time depending on what is the most important, valuable, and income earning choice for me at that particular time.
                     
                     The hubs I wrote were already good at the outset, and I did change them per instructions for the changes to TOS.
                     
                     I just do not have time to do it again, and again.
                     
                     So that means I will have to make a choice again regarding the priority of my own time, and if it makes more sense to keep a specific article here for future revision or move it completely elsewhere where I can write it the way it currently is, then not need to revise it again.

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                        Denise Handlonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Thanks for some feedback on what I wrote.  I'll try to stay open minded during this transition.

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            Brie Hoffmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Amen

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   Mark Ewbieposted 14 years ago

   My angle on this. 
   
   I want the best traffic I can get to my pages. 
   
   The Google slap screwed the traffic.
   
   Anything that helps undo the 'slap effect' has to be good.
   
   ...
   
   I didn't get any notices or emails, whatever, because I am a goody two shoes - or more realistically - haven't a clue about marketing.
   
   But the quality has led me to revise, and revise again, all my output - such as it is.  I want anyone who finds me, which isn't many, to have chosen a title and summary that match the content - and to be pleased / interested / entertained by what they find.
   
   Is it worth doing all this work for pennies or cents?
   
   Maybe not - but it's all I can do.

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      Michael Willisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I have found that having to go back over my hubs has helped me. I can see a major difference from the beginning until now in my own hubs. I even deleted a few that was not worth the time to re-work.
      There were several I was glad to go back and make edits to. I can see that it has helped with those hubs for the better. I probably would not have done this without the new rules that were added.

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         Mark Ewbieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, me too.  It's a learning curve, putting pages together - oh and writing of course - and I am hopeful that improving presentation, adding content, rewriting elements will add up to more traffic at some point.

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6. 90

   Pamela99posted 14 years ago

   I think the guidelines are necessary to a degree but I just finished writing a hub about the Adirondacks with general information, plus focused on hiking and mountain climbing.  I had it up for a couple of minutes and suddenly it says duplicate.  Every picture (I used all my own pictures as I have traveled there several times) and I didn't copy anyone else's words.  So, I checked on Hubpages and someone had written about hiking in the Adirondacks but their article was not even similar to mine. If that is the reason for the duplicate than are we responsible for checking all the articles to see if they are even similar to our topic?  We were told to avoid several topics, use personal pictures, etc.  I have been trying to follow those guidelines but this is really frustrating.

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      lakeerieartistsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That is definitely one that you will have to email the moderators about.  It could be that hub, the pics, or a glitch in the system.

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      Pamela99posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I looked again at my hub and I had listed the names of the 46 mountains and their heights in the section of the climbers and credited their organization with that information which is all over the website, and I think they consider that being a duplicate. I thought if you copied facts, not general information, and it was credited properly that it was acceptable.  Anyway, I removed it now to see if that was the problem.

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         relacheposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Duplicating text that you find somewhere else, factual or not, credited or not, is precisely what you are supposed to NOT to be doing here.

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            darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Yes. It's not about plagiarism or copyright infringement but about duplication. The same string/s of text appearing in two or more places.

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   tlpoagueposted 14 years ago

   I am grateful for the changes HP has made in their guidelines for hubs. I have been a member of HubPages for twenty months, but in reality, I have only written for HP since August of 2010. Of all of my hubs that I have written, so far, only three have been flagged for various reasons. One particular hub being flagged was discouraging enough for me to question why it was being flagged for duplicate content, when I had done a search on HP and didn't see any other hubs about this product. I emailed the HP team, asking them what changes needed to be made, and stated why I wrote the hub in the first place. They were kind enough to give me a quick response and showed me why it had been flagged. Most of my problem came from the way I used my keywords and the different sites this product was on. Just because I didn't see the product on HP didn't mean that it wasn't “overly promotional” on other sites.
   Since then, I have encountered different issues while writing for HP; from unusual emails from hubbers, buggy issues with my IP address, to editing issues not allowing me to edit. Each time I have addressed HP, they have been kind and quick to respond.
   My point to all my babbling is this, if HP didn't have these guidelines, this site would be filled with so much substandard, foulmouthed, unreadable articles, that it wouldn't be an enjoyable place to work or read. I am grateful for the hard work that the HP staff has done in helping to improve this site and the work of writers. It is discouraging to constantly re-work an article, but that is to better help us as writers. I have taken time away from my writing and this contest this week to observe and learn from others so that my next article may outshine my previous. And if it is flagged, well, I guess I have some work to do.
   Thanks HP for your hard work!

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   Pamela99posted 14 years ago

   I've learned my lesson now, no duplication of any kind.
   Another thing that is time consuming is fixing all the broken links that are primarily from the hub challengers lists when hubs are deleted. I check every day to keep up.

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      Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Pamela - the lesson from that is, don't go overboard linking to other Hubs!  The "suggested links" tool will give you lots of suggestions, but you're supposed to be very discerning and choose only the highly relevant ones - and discard the rest.

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   wael74posted 14 years ago

   thank yuo pamela99 for every thing

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    Mercrediposted 14 years ago

    But if our Hubs can't be adult, too personal, or filled with hate speech and personal attacks, is their still a reason to write anymore. Sometimes the world just doesn't make sense.

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    Whitney05posted 14 years ago

    Would opinions without factual base be considered purely personal?

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    Home Girlposted 14 years ago

    I can predict that Hubpages will soon become as "correct" as a TD bank report and as boring as a rainy day in Toronto,Canada.
    Though I understand the reason and motivation, the Hubpages side. It will be hard to leave and hard to stay.  I still believe that there is nothing more interesting, motivational and educational than personal experience. Without it there is no story that can touch your heart.

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       WriteAngledposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I'll take a properly researched article with solid information over semi-literate emotional rants any day, thank you.

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          rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I think sometimes the perfectly researched articles taken straight out of another source can be dry and boring. If a writer can give it some life and add a personal dimension, I think it gives the article a better chance to gain readership. Most people, while online have very short attention spans.
          
          As Maddie clarified in another post a few weeks ago, there is some personal content that has value to readers. I guess that is the distinction, which can be highly subjective if certain readers aren't interested in the particular topic. Maddie's words:
          
          In any case, as I've said before, the test we moderators put each Hub through is something like this: Would this Hub be understandable, useful and interesting to someone who does not know the author personally?  If so, we are inclined to leave it up, as long as it is properly categorized and stays on topic.  If not, whatever my personal feelings about the matter, I take it down.  This job certainly isn't for everyone.

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             WriteAngledposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Perfectly researched articles are not "taken straight out of another source"!
             
             Some of my hubs have taken 12+ hours to produce. Before a single word was written, I spent several hours searching the scientific literature, using many different search terms, skimming through tens of screens of search results for each one, reading relevant papers, in full text where possible or abstracts where not, and coming to conclusions about the consensus of opinion. After that, it was a matter of trying to put the information into a language accessible to a reasonably educated non-scientist. 
             
             They may be dry and boring to some people, but I guess, from comments received, others find them useful and interesting.
             
             Unfortunately, rigorous scientific training means I cannot in all conscience throw up a hub in 10 minutes!

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                lakeerieartistsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Actually, it doesn't have to be a scientific topic for that to be true.  Any topic unless it is written by a current expert on that topic, should take time in research, and analysis of the subject matter.
                
                For instance, if I write a hub about a topic that I teach regularly, writing it is mostly reiterating what I use when teaching, but if it is a newer related topic, then I need to research it as well.  I also like to confirm my information to make sure it is fact, not guesswork. 

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                rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                WA, I wasn't making reference to anyone in particular. I haven't read your hubs, and that's fantastic that you do spend the time to do it right.  My statement is in reference to hubs that I have read (sometimes) that sound like they are taken from a reference book or Wikipedia. I've even read those kind of hubs which have no references, which I think provides a disservice to the reader. As you write on what you know well and have authority with the topic, I think that makes a huge difference.
                I was just trying to point out that sometimes adding a personal dimension, even if only by adding one personal comment, can help to make a connection with the reader.
                
                It also takes me quite a while to put together a hub. I'm not one that can have a well-researched hub done in a couple of hours.

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    Whitney05posted 14 years ago

    Home Girl, if it's only personal, then it should be on a blog. If it is factual with some personal experience, then I can see that being fine on HP.  They don't want blog posts.

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       Home Girlposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I already have "factual with some personal experience" deleted, thank you.  What now? No more personal experience? Where is that thin line? How to establish it? I am  really confused.

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    Mark Ewbieposted 14 years ago

    All hubs are personal, they are all written from a single writer's point of view.  In fact ALL information, in my opinion, is the opinion of a self appointed expert or story teller.
    
    I don't believe that the HP policing will result in a more boring experience - but I base that on the hope that my own hubs will still be there in the morning.
    
    Who knows?  Maybe the whole lot - all five minutes worth of effort will be gone?
    
    Then I might have a very different personal story to tell.
    
    Sorry.  Just rambling.

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15. 81

    Janet21posted 14 years ago

    Still getting hubs unpublished due to too many products, hubs that I had already fixed prior to the deadline in order to NOT HAVE THEM UNPUBLISHED!  I really love doing things twice and losing traffic waiting for hubs to be published again.
    
    Did anyone look into the fact that there may be a bug here?

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       EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I would imagine not :snort:

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    2. 70

       Karen Nposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I had the same problem with several of my hubs. Ever since then I've been checking the word count on each hub.  You can do this by clicking on the stats at the top of your hub. For some reason the system doesn't always catch it if you're compliant or not.

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    Mrs. J. B.posted 14 years ago

    I just hope with all the changes on HUBS that I manage to comply. Maddie hands are already full and to add to the burden overload, well might either get me detention, sent to the big guns or expelled. LOL....

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    Shawn M.posted 14 years ago

    I recently had an account with hubpages banned and the reason why is that I had a few hubs that had issues as listed in this thread.  So, in order to try and correct those issues, I removed the offending content or corrected it but my account is still showing all the hubs are unpublished.
    
    I have sent through a couple emails - spaced out over a 2 week period and I have yet to hear from anyone on this; if or when my account might be activated again.
    
    Should I assume that the account that was banned is no longer able to be used or is there something I can do?  I would appreciate anyone's advice or if a staff member of hubpages is seeing this, can you please email me?
    
    I don't want to sound like I am asking for anything special here, just would like to understand what my options might be.
    
    Thanks!

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    1. 91

       rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       If you had one account banned, I think that's the end of that account. You may have to be patient and wait for a response from a staff member as to what you may do with the hubs you corrected. Perhaps you can republish them on a different account. But I'm sure you're in a position where you will need a direct response from HP.
       I have heard that they are very backed up, so patience is due. good luck.

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    2. 87

       Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Are you sure you were "banned" from HubPages?  Or was it just that all your Hubs were unpublished, but you can still access your account?
       
       It sounds like you could still access your account because you say you revised your Hubs.  Did you resubmit them for publication?  You do have to resubmit each one.

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    Trish_Mposted 14 years ago

    Hi
    
    I think I read recently that, if we flagged too many items, while reading or hub hopping, we might annoy the moderators and get ourselves into trouble.
    
    Is there any truth in this, please?

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       Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yes and no.  If you know the rules well, and you're only flagging non-compliant Hubs that genuinely need to be unpublished, then you won't get yourself in trouble.
       
       I think the misunderstanding arises because some people have gone on a flagging spree and flagged Hubs just because they were "badly written" (in their subjective opinion).  That wastes the moderators' time and could well get you in trouble!
       
       If you take some time to read and understand what constitutes "substandard", then only flag Hubs you're truly confident meet the criteria, you'll be doing us all a service and the moderators will appreciate your efforts.

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       Glenn Stokposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       As long as those hubs you are flagging are truly what you indicate (images with water marks, spam, spun, etc.), then I don't see why you would annoy the moderators. HP needs all of us to help find the hubs that are pulling the rest of us down since the Google Panda updates. That was made clear (see the first post in this forum "New Flagging Reasons").
       
       I would not be surprised if what you read was posted by someone who has been getting a lot of their hubs flagged for legitimate reasons.

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    Trish_Mposted 14 years ago

    Thanks for the reassuring responses

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    duffsmomposted 14 years ago

    This forum has been very helpful and informative--thank you

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       Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Hey Duffsmom, just in case you haven't seen this thread....It might be something you want to read as well.
       
       Just a thought.
       
       http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/74274

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21. 56

    danynguyen1posted 14 years ago

    One out of two hubs I write keeps getting flagged for duplicate.
    
    THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE.
    
    I'm starting to get really, but really pissed, seriously.

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       danynguyen1posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Like someone said, it's really starting to look like some kind of witch hunt.

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       workingmomwmposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Well, you could always try paraphrasing Amazon reviews instead of copying them word-for-word. I know it's more work, but that way your hubs won't be flagged as duplicate. Copied content isn't allowed. Period. No reason to get pissed off about it. Just don't do it.

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          danynguyen1posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Oh gee, REALLY?

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             workingmomwmposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I don't know why you're being sarcastic about it. You apparently didn't know you weren't supposed to do that since many of your hubs are copied straight from Amazon. Or else you did know it, and you just didn't care - in which case, yes, you will continue to be flagged, and you would probably be better off writing somewhere else where duplicate content isn't an issue. It's not impossible, and it's not a witch hunt. Those are just the rules.

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    Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

    So does that mean this should not be allowed?
    
    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/75557

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    1. 77

       workingmomwmposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       UW: I, for one, would definitely consider that to be duplicating content, and it seems that same hubber does it quite often. That explains why she has over 2000 hubs. Ugh! I'd hate to be the one to go through and flag all of those! Maybe that's why she's been able to get away with it for so long.

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    Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

    And it's getting harder and harder to find a site that accepts duplicates.

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    pixmafiaposted 14 years ago

    This really is getting beyond a joke, it's all well and good getting users to go on an orgy of flagging but what about those who will abuse this system and just keep flagging those users they just don't like? will they be banned from abusing the system? Do the mods act only on one flag or after a number of flags on one post? if they are only acting on one then that kinda makes the mods Judge, Jury and executioner? at the end of the day it all boils down to weather the mod likes the work or not and that is not how a site should be run. it seems to be all stick and no carrot. The rules on grammer are one of the worst cases of elitist discrimination i have ever seen in my life. a logical train of thought about the problem is what is needed not KGB style moderation!

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    Laura in Denverposted 14 years ago

    I am unhappy about beint told I cannot promote a valuable ebook and may check into squidoo. what is the problem with promoting a valuable ebook?

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    GlstngRosePetalsposted 13 years ago

    Maddie: I would just like to say ( can you repeat that one more time ). LOL thank you for some clairification on flagging.

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    Alex Simringposted 13 years ago

    Thanks for this useful info providing both general guidelines and good specific examples. I like the idea of thinking of whether each hub would be suitable for publishing in a magazine.

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