Erm What?

1. 61

   LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

   You are prohibited from entering into any additional tier of affiliate relationship

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2. 61

   LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

   advertising fees based on: i) a percentage of qualifying revenues from transactions that occur on Amazon via a referral of a user from Your Hubs,
   
   ii) a cost-per-click fee for valid referrals from Your Hubs, or iii) as an alternate formula that HubPages selects.
   
   The earnings formula may not be identical across all HubPages Earnings Program accounts that run the Amazon Program.
   
   You will not have a direct contractual relationship with Amazon, the Amazon Associates Program, or any advertiser/merchant of Amazon. You acknowledge and agree that with respect to Your participation in the Amazon Program under HubPages: i) You are prohibited from entering into any additional tier of affiliate relationship,

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   1. 58

      Jenna May Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes LindaSmith1 I believe this is why the thread was started and why there is so much unhappiness and confusion - I think it's all been said.
      
      But a heads up to those willing to think about how on earth hubpages could possibly mean I cannot have a separate relationship with amazon when I already do, was I though worth mentioning (particularly when hubpages have also confirmed I can still use that other relationship by adding in text affiliate links).
      
      Happy Days...

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3. 61

   LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

   Jenna:  That does not make sense   In confirming we can use our own affiliate ids on hubs in text links, they are confirming we can have affiliation with amazon. How would they even know? I have many tracking IDs for use on different sites and only amazon know they are all tied to my account.
   
   
   Stop and think about it.  Right now, we have to put our Amazon Affiliate ID in box for Amazon to activate it.  We only have One Amazon account ID, but we can create multiple tracker IDs with that account.

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   1. 58

      Jenna May Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      No idea sorry I don't understand you - think I should have stayed quiet as usual!
      
      But thought folks like Izzy with UK accounts might like the emailed information.
      
      I signed up with amazon at amazon.com not hubpages.
      
      I have put one of my tracking IDs on hubs.
      
      When 1st Jan comes hubpages will give me a new reference for their crazy reporting of amazon earnings on hubpages.
      
      I will still have my old amazon account with tons of affiliate IDs that hubpages know nothing about...

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4. 61

   LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

   You may request to turn on the Amazon Program in order to earn advertising fees via referrals to Amazon from Your Hubs
   
   That statement tells me in order to earn from Amazon in any way using our hubs, we HAVE TO sign up for Hub pages form of Amazon
   
   
   Some of thel lanuage for Ebay is the same.  But, hubbers are called Sub-affiliates under ebay program  But the term sub-affiliate is not mentioned under Amazon program.

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      skyfireposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Let's not complicate things for those who are lurking in the forums. You're confused with few things here, if i'm not wrong.
      
      1. You don't have to sign up with amazon separately for using it in capsules on hubpages for this program. They're going to take care of all that and procedure is similar to that of eBay program. Your affiliate contract with amazon under hubpages and on your own associate account are not connected.
      
      2. If you want to use your own hubpages text links (be it any regional amazon) you've a limit of 2 links per domain.
      
      These two things are already cleared when staff member posted the Amazon FAQ UP thread.
      
      As far as less transparent things concerned in TOS - it's about amazon's percentage tier per member, 6 month limit for earning and few other things noted by OP.

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   2. 60

      FloraBreenRobisonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I have no interest in the EBay program. For my type of hubs, I do not see how an auction site can help me. I mean, who is going to bid on paperback books or DVDs ?

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      1. 61

         Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Flora, these Ebay capsules are used for selling new stuff too, not just for auctioning products off.  The items for sale in Ebay capsules change regularly so you don't have to keep changing the products every so often.
         
         And you'd be surprise at the items you can sell on hubs you'd never suspect would get a buyer. 

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            Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Absolutely true.  I one time sold a hundred pounds of some kind of weight loss tea...I've no idea how that happened, but it damn sure happened.

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5. 61

   LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

   Another concern is they can cancel hubbers at any time and keep earnings. If CPC issue
   
   Think about it, Adsense is CPC too, and there are issues with False clicking to boost earnings.  How many times do we click to check our links, to make a change etc.  Whatever the reason, we are still clicking on our amazon links.
   
   If we have broken links, again we click on everything to find broken link.
   
   Amazon automatically changes or deletes a product from our A store if we have one. But for our hubs, blogs etc, we have to stay on top of those products and change price, delete if out of stock etc.  Again, we will be clicking away to make corrections as needed.
   
   All of this clicking can be construed as FALSE CLICKS.

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   1. 58

      Jenna May Swanposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes LindaSmith1 I believe this is why the thread was started and why there is so much unhappiness and confusion - I think it's all been said.
      
      There are other places to write!

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6. 61

   LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

   Yes Jenna   Fortunately, there are other places to write and earn from our writing. But as far as it all being said, there is something lacking there.
   
   We have all had plenty to say.  On the other hand, it is a one sided conversation.  HP is not saying anything and that is an issue.

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7. 61

   LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

   Skyfire:  1. of your statement     is for New version
   
   I spoke of CURRENT  we have to put our ID in so they still know our current ID.
   
   It does not matter about ID really.  What does matter is we cannot use another Amazon ID here? It does matter as to whether or not hubbers can do Amazon through hub pages version AND have their own Amazon ID elsewhere.  It appears the only way we can promote Amazon, under new changes, is through Hub Pages only.

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8. 61

   LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

   That is all I saw too, a lot of empty space  messages not there

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9. 82

   Mark Ewbieposted 12 years ago

   I'm a bit worried by all of this.
   
   Normally I do all my Xmas shopping at Amazon, apart from a card which I might buy at the local store, oh and chocolates obviously. 
   
   Is HubPages saying I can't shop there anymore?
   
   I mean, for one it's expensive using the car to go to an out of town mega store, and this close to Xmas is a bit disruptive.
   
   But hey.  If HP says it's a good thing then I'm cool with that. I mainly only buy CD's and cheap plastic crap from them anyway.

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      FloraBreenRobisonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I sometimes buy books or DVDs there. Outside of that type of product, I do not actually shop much online period  as I like to see what I'm buying in person .

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10. 80

    skyfireposted 12 years ago

    You can use max. two text links per domain (including amazon) with hubpages. You can't use amazon capsule with your ID once they roll out amazon ad program.
    
    You're free to use your own associate ID outside hubpages and that contract is between you and amazon. Hubpages has nothing to do with your associate ID on any other site.
    
    
    No. We're filling tax forms and Hubpages-amazon affiliate program acceptance for using amazon in shared model on hubpages only. This contact has nothing to do with our previous contract with amazon.

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    1. 61

       LindaSmith1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Skyfire:
       
       So with new Amazon program, let me clarify as you posted here
       
       
       Hub pages gives us Amazon ID-  We all know that
       
       Capsule use:  Only if in Hub Pages New Version For Amazon
       
       Text links:  We can use either the hub pages ID or
       
       we can use our personal Amazon associate links or ID
       Is that correct.

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          skyfireposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Yes and there is a limit of 2 links per domain for our ID and not for hubpages ID. (i.e. 2 links to amazon.co.uk or 2 links to amazon.com or amazon.ca)

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11. 61

    LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

    Mark:  I don't know about the new HP program.\
    
    But, as an Amazon affiiliate, you cannot make purchases from your Amazon associate account and earn commission from what you purchase. In fact, I think there is a penalty fee if you do.

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    1. 82

       Mark Ewbieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       OH Lol.  No I don't use my affiliate!  I just log into Amazon and buy stuff normally.
       
       I mean, the crap I put on my hubs doesn't appeal to me.

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          wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Guess you better write some sales hubs for chocolates then!

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       2. 60

          FloraBreenRobisonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          

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12. 60

    FloraBreenRobisonposted 12 years ago

    So far, my amazon hubs haven't done much and I don't yet have another amazon affiliate. And since I write few product hubs, personally, I wouldn't lose much. However, I am not found of monopolies.  At this point, I am undecided about what I would do under the change, since I do not make much anyway.

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13. 87

    Cardisaposted 12 years ago

    Before we get all worked up, shouldn't we get a staff member in here to confirm that interpretation of the TOS?

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    1. 88

       mistyhorizon2003posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Trouble is Cardisa, the staff members are 'conspicuous in their absence', so although they will be following this thread (for certain), they are choosing not to respond properly to the very common concerns being voiced here.

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          Cardisaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          That's so sneaky and unprofessional!

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       2. 95

          wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I don't know just how "conspicuous" they are; half the country is shut down from Wednesday evening till Monday.
          
          Was there even anyone in at HP on Friday or did they all have the day off?  I know Paul stepped in, but would rather have expected that - to get everyone together for a discussion on how to answer some of these crazy accusations is quite another thing.

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14. STAFF

    Paul Edmondsonposted 12 years ago

    I'm pulling the TOS questions and we will review them on Monday.  We appreciate the questions.
    
    Hopefully by the end of the day we can post a few more responses or add things to the FAQ.

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15. 67

    davenmidtownposted 12 years ago

    It is kind of like the story of Henny Penny around here these days!

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    1. 95

       wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Pretty much.  The biggest question I have at this point is when will it happen?  Seems like it's already several weeks later than predicted, and I had hoped to get Nov sales under the new plan.

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       1. 88

          mistyhorizon2003posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          HP said it will not be until the end of the year from other threads and posts I have read in the last week or two.

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             wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I thought that was to switch over involuntarily, and that we would be given a choice around 2 weeks ago.
             
             Oh well.  We'll miss out in the Xmas shopping, but that is about over anyway.  Just a few more weeks.

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16. 67

    davenmidtownposted 12 years ago

    I see this as a much more positive move then a negative move, wildlerness.

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    1. 95

       wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       So do I.  I realize that non-North American hubbers will face a loss from paypal usage, but that's about it.  There are probably a small handful that earn top tier on HP and use those sales to increase the tier for small sites outside HP that will also lose some, but it can't be much with only small sites.
       
       And that's just about it.  The doom and gloom of massive income losses just isn't going to happen outside of losses directly attributable to the use of  paypal.  Hopefully HP can re-think that strategy and offer some other payment plan for those people across the pond.

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       1. 70

          thisisoliposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          The biggest loss would be in earning periods and reporting.  Being able ot easily track what people buying is essential to my strategy.

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17. 70

    thisisoliposted 12 years ago

    to calrify one question being asked a lot, I think it means that if no earnings are accrued for more than so many days the earnings may be forfeit.

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18. 67

    davenmidtownposted 12 years ago

    I am fairly certain they are referring only to what happens within hubpages and not what you do on any of your own outside accounts.  This is their domain and they do a great deal of negotiations with these very large ad accounts on our behalf.  This is also a free to join service and as such I would be very appreciative of the work that the hubpage staff does for us.   Weighing in the opportunity that is provided to us by hubpages makes the rest of this look really small.  Considering the new ad layouts and the new improved revenue programs that were just recently launched I would say that hubpages is really looking out for us.  The new TOS is not designed to steal our earnings it is designed to protect us as a group from the political infrastructure that is currently raging between the individual state governments and the online selling world. 
    
    California residents recently lost their ability to be an Amazon affiliate because of the state's desire to apply sales tax to any sale that was refer by a California resident though affiliate marketing.  This is regardless if the person buying the product was in Texas or the UK.  Imagine the drop in internet sales if that law had remained.  Fortunately California repealed that law and just recently we Californian's were welcomed back to Amazon.  Amazon suspended all our accounts and they did so without any input from us.  The TOS on hubpages is to protect a lot of writes who market through amazon and other places from having those affiliate accounts closed just because someone in a corporate office has a whim.   The new program will provide us a hubpages amazon affiliate id that belongs to hubpages and not to the writer.  This is to PROTECT us from the debacle that will occur again when the states try to collect revenue from online resources.

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       thisisoliposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Daven, I think you have misunderstood the california sales tax, what it actualy does is make it so that if Amazon has just one affiliate in California they have to pay sales tax on all products sold to california residents.
       
       You may also want to consider that although this service is free to join we do pay 40% of earnings, while this might not be much to you it does mean that some of us pay Hubpages hundreds and even thousands of dollars annually to use the service.
       
       When it comes to the changes they make benefiting us, they don't always benefit us, which is why it is nice to have the option to test, and opt in or out as we desire.
       
       While it might be nice to provide a single solution to a contract negotiation, some of us don't like the thought of having to wait an additional month for our pay check that some of us live off.
       
       What would you do if your job told you that they were going to pay you a month later for each months work and may adjust your pay to a lower value? What would you do if you had to go a month without pay?

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19. 67

    davenmidtownposted 12 years ago

    This is why you will not be allowed to have your OWN hubpages affiliate account with amazon.  It does not mean that your original amazon affiliate account can not be used in other places such as your own webpage, etc.

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20. STAFF

    Paul Edmondsonposted 12 years ago

    @thisisoli. HubPages TOS only refers to hubpages. As an example, You can still have a personal amazon associate relationship for your other sites.  We will get this in the FAQ.

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       Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Does the confusion about this perhaps come from the section that talks about ebay?
       
       Where it says "For the avoidance of doubt, as a sub-affiliate under HubPages, You will not have a direct contractual relationship with eBay, the eBay Partner Network, or any advertiser of eBay.".    I assumed that this meant only within HubPages too, but I can certainly see where it could be misinterpreted.

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    2. 70

       thisisoliposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       @Paul thanks for the clarification, does this condition also affect use of our own amazon.co.uk/.ca links in posts on Hubpages? (I currently do this on some of my high traffic hubs - although I would be ecstatic to see geo-targeted keyword amazon capsules appear).

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21. 67

    davenmidtownposted 12 years ago

    Thisisoli:  I re-read the letters from Amazon and I have not misunderstood the intent of the California law.  http://boingboing.net/2011/06/29/amazon … socia.html (for your reference)
    
    While the service if free to join and yes there is a 40% payment through earnings one would have to measure the earnings we would make without the assistance of hubpages and the deals that they provide to use by being a large marketing system which can be seen in the high paying ads that are brought to us via hubpages (Drain-O) for one. Regardless of whether or not you make $1 a month or $10,000 a month here the bottom line is that without the hard work that hubpages does on our behalf that monthly income figure would be remarkable lower if this were just a site that allowed you to post your written work.
    
    It is impossible to manage a group of writers of this size an make every single writer here happy.  While is is nice to have the options to test or opt out it is not always manageable to do so.  Given the nature of just the amazon deal how would you set up an opt out policy when the basis of the amazon language is to remove each of us from the scrutiny of the State government? 
    
    I have lived off of online income for two years now.  I agree with you about how hard it is to tied to money from other sources.  I set up my bills and payments to be one month out.  Which means that I pay all of my bills as far ahead as I can.  This is usually a minimum of 30 days but more like 60 days. I work off a budget and I put money aside as I need to in order to meet my upcoming expenses.  This gives me a 30-60 window to meet expenses.  It helps to relieve the stress of not having a normal job.
    
    My last job bounced $6000 in payroll checks which to this day are not cashable. That even nearly caused me to be homeless.   Even with the help of the State of California and the IRS that money is gone. I did the same thing then as I do now when there is a change in how I am going to receive money.  I cut my expenses and relied on savings until I was able to build an acceptable income/cash-flow system.  It is not easy but nothing in this world is guaranteed.  For the last 1.5 years I have finally been able to live a comfortable life style without the worry of where my next amount of money will come from.  It is not easy but it is doable...
    
    I am happy that I have the opportunities to be part of hubpages and to put my writing to use in making a living.  I do not rely solely on hubpages for income.  I have private clients and I sometimes write for the article writing services such as writeraccess.com.   It is what we have to do to be able to survive.
    
    I appreciate your frustration and I wish you the best in all of this.

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22. 70

    thisisoliposted 12 years ago

    The link you provided doesn't actually talk much about what the affiliate nexus tax is about.
    
    For clarification however, the nexus tax does not tax sales an dilliate in california makes.
    
    What it does do is add an affiliate marketer as a 'physical presence' for a company in that state.  This used to require a physical presence (Hence why Walmart's Main Street Fairness alliances wanted to take amazon out with this bill) such as a store or distribution center. 
    
    Under the nexus tax laws if a company owns a physical presence in that state they must pay sales tax in that state.  Before Californian affiliates were not considered a nexus so every sale Amazon made to a California residence was not charged California sales tax.
    
    With the affiliate nexus tax legislation affiliates are considered a physical presence for a company.  This means that even one affiliate in a state means that a company has a 'physical presence' there.  This means that one affiliate means that every product Amazon sells in California is liable to sales tax.

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23. 70

    thisisoliposted 12 years ago

    I'm sorry to hear you took such a huge hit from a bounced check though, and while I also don't pay bills as soon as I receive them, it is all too easy to slip closer and closer towards the overdue date.
    
    It is also important to remember that with the new Amazon program payments will be closer to 90 days.
    
    When it comes to advertising deals, I simply have not had a stable enough platform to do testing on over the last few months.  I just don't know whether or not I am better with or without HubAds at this point, but I will keep testing until I find out. The one thing i can say is that it is a close call.
    
    The reason I have continued to write on hubpages despite the 40% is simple.  It makes it much easier to create effective sales layouts.  This service is worth the thousands to me.  However if the platform increases in downsides, then it will decrease my participation.
    
    I did not join the 'I'm leaving hubpages' bandwagon, although I came close on a couple of occasions.  However my participation has decreased, and it will ocntinue to decrease every time teh 'value' of Hubpages service decrease. 
    
    I am very concerned about may of the new T&C's regarding the Amazon program.
    
    It is more than technically possible for Hubpages to make this an opt-in/opt-out solution because they have already demonstraited they can handle a more technical version of this with HubAds. 
    
    If I could see real value in the Amazon change I would not be complaining (i.e. I suffered a small financial loss from the eBay change, but I was more than happy to accept that because it gave every hubber access to the ebay platform.)  But I cannot see a level of value from this that benefits the authors as much as it does Hubpages.
    
    I will continue to lobby for the amazon changes to be optional, because I enjoy making money on Hubpages.  If I cease seeing the same level of benefit, I will simple cease writing further sales articles and continue writing on platforms that provide me with more value.
    
    Why don't I just leave? Because I already have a large monthly income coming from here, because believe it or not I do care about this community, and because this site still contains the potential to succeed.

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       Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       And because we'd miss you?

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          wordscribe43posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I know I would miss Oli!

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          thisisoliposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I can only hope

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24. 67

    davenmidtownposted 12 years ago

    Thisisoli:  Thank you for your concern... I think it was a blessing to push me to be more active in writing.   The glass is half full for me.  I may not seem totally sympathetic to the amazon points you are making but I do hear what you are saying.  I stopped relying on amazon after they fired all of the California affiliates.  Before then I had spend a great amount of time writing product ads, etc and then was left holding a bunch of really nicely laid out hubs that had no financial value to me.   
    
    I have worked really hard for the 8 months that I have been here to continue to rise through the ranks of writers and develop niche writing categories.  I look at the writers who are on the success page here at hubpages and that is my goal.  I want to make a consistent living here.  Each month I have been able to double my earnings without using the amazon affiliate tool(s) and I realize at some point  that I will reach a level where I will not be able to double my earnings but I hope that at that stage a smaller percentage of gain will equal a lot of money.   
    
    My point in this is there are many other revenue streams here that can be beneficial.  I am not a SEO expert and I do not understand all of the computer related jargon and philosophies that exist around SEO and marketing, but I know how to write and I know how to be a fairly decent writer (sometimes), and those are the things that seem to make the biggest differences here.  I am happy that each month my traffic outside of hubpages increases and as I gain new followers my traffic inside of hubpages increases.  This is the other side of writing... the marketing and development of a brand. 
    
    When I read the TOS what I saw was that hubpages was taking the responsibility of dealing with corporate giants such as amazon as their own.  If the proposed changes in the sales tax law for California had gone through, more then just amazon would have been lost to the 10,000 plus affiliate writers that were affected by Amazon's sudden departure from the field.   It becomes harder for me to deal with companies that will just walk away by severing those lines of income that many people were dependent upon.  Some hubbers in states are still restricted sales tax laws that were not rescinded by state government.  As the economy in the United States continues to fail and flounder more and more states will likely look to online sales taxation to make up for drops in local sales tax revenue and decreased support from the federal government.
    
    I feel like hubpages offers each of its writers a great deal of opportunity.  They also allow us to determine how to use that opportunity for the most part.  The new changes will take some getting used to but in the end I am confident that the benefit will be to us the writers.   The people who are leaving hubpages for what they see as greener pastures I doubt will find much outside of hubpages... though I am sure that the door will always be unlocked if they wish to return. 
    
    As for why you stay... all good points.  It is never wise to leave all of your eggs in one basket.  You seem to rely a great deal on amazon... I would look into some of the ad revenue benefits that are here too.  That is where most of my income here comes from.

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       thisisoliposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Remember that if california re-instates the sales tax and there is not a federal move on it, either Amazon will have to cease paying hubpages based on sales values, or they will have to drop Hubpages completely along with all other california affiliates.  This means that now hubbers such as me here in Texas are at risk of losing out financially because of the Nexus tax in California.
       
       Personally I would rather delete my hubs than participate in another squidoo like scheme that attempts to 'distribute' earnings.
       
       Strong words, but there is a reason I am active on Hubpages and have practically zero presence on platforms like Squidoo.
       
       I don't think that Hubpages is out to 'rip off hubbbers'. However I do think that they will profit a lot from holding hubbers earnings for a period, even if it is just off interest rather than investment.  They also stand to profit much more from an Amazon rate increase than any individual hubber.
       
       Personally I think Hubpages negotiating with Amazon for better rates is a good thing, but I think strong arming us in to being a bargaining chip is a big issue. 
       
       Remember that Hubpages is trying to provide the numbers to Amazon to bargain for a better deal, but when hubbers complain, often those who combined bring in a huge number of daily visitors to Hubpages, they just do what they want.  Consider how much percentage wise Hubpages sends to Amazon and compare it to how much percentage wise many of those who really don't want to see this be mandatory contribute to Hubpages.
       
       They might be having to please more than just hubbers, and they may indeed be doing good things for us, but they also need to listen to the concerns that many of us have.

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          HikeGuyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          If HP reconsiders making this mandatory, I'd be more interested in continuing here.
          
          I wonder if people who think this is a good change have paid attention to the first post in this thread -- the fact that the formula for Amazon earnings becomes anything HP chooses -- and the line in the Amazon info that states HP can make changes at any time. Then there's the no-recourse factor. This isn't an agreement I'd accept anywhere.
          
          I used to believe in HP.  Because of  the new TOS, I removed all the "Join HP" links from my profile and hubs. I can't in good conscience recommend HP any longer.
          
          It's disappointing to see HP take this direction. For now, I've stopped publishing here.

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25. 67

    davenmidtownposted 12 years ago

    thisisoli: 
    
    It is this statement that I refer to: 
    
    It specifically imposes the collection of taxes from consumers on sales by online retailers - including but not limited to those referred by California-based marketing affiliates like you - even if those retailers have no physical presence in the state.

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       thisisoliposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       It means even if those retailers have no presence in the state (ie. California)
       
       I strongly urge you to visit http://performancemarketingassociation.com/
       
       It actually means a lot to me that every affiliate marketer out there understands what is happening here so they can effectively lobby against affiliate nexus tax changes.
       
       Key points include
       
       Taxation without representation
       
       An affiliate marketer is a global marketer, not a state marketer.
       
       These affiliate marketers generate a taxable income for the state from the global market (critical to economic success).
       
       Performance based is not any different from fee based advertising (Would you tax all sales in California if a Texas company hired a Californian TV advertising production company to do an advertising campaign in New Orleans?
       
       And there are plenty more on the PMA website.  Effective lobbying can hold back the nexus tax cahnges, because the biggest problem is that most people simply do not understand the basics of what it is all about.

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    Lissieposted 12 years ago

    I've been on the fence about staying or going. But I spent the last few hours unpublishing all my hubs from one of my other identities here. That ID was all about Amazon - and nothing that I've seen from management has addressed my concerns about why rolling all of Amazon into HPAds - without the option of retaining your own Amazon ID on hubs - is a very bad idea.
    
    I've finally found somewhere I can move those product hubs for at least the interim - as I really don't have time to build a whole bunch of new sites before Xmas.
    
    If it works out I will move some of my "lissie" hubs over as well. As it is I get enough social traffic to this main account for it to be worthwhile to keep what I have up.
    
    Though even this account - which is back to pre-Panda levels - is certainly not got the Google trust it had - it took days for my last hub to index - and I can articles on my own established sites to rank just as easily as I can hubs - so  I doubt that I will write many more hubs here.
    
    If you want to know where my Amazon hubs are going check out what is probably my last hub.

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       Will Apseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Don't forget to sign up to Wizzley through Lissie's link at the bottom of her hub.
       
       Or she won't get her 10 per cent.

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    Jean Bakulaposted 12 years ago

    I mistakenly thought the number on the report that said "revenue" was the amount we made selling Amazon products on HP. Imagine my surprise and embarrassment when I asked on the Help forum and sounded like the Village Idiot. All we make is the "Advertising' part, which after 1 whole year on HP, is $6.00 for me. It's so hard to find products for tarot, astrology and metaphysical topics, so I wasted about a half hour a hub to make that $6.00. I'm stunned.

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    LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

    I was going to but I must have already signed up for Wizzley and forgot about it  But, although they say unique content, once hubs are totally unpublished and deleted here, or elsewhere, they can be republished on Weezly they say as long as the content is good. Unfortunately, on some sites, even if you delete your article, they keep it floating around on the internet.

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       Lissieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I should flipping well hope so! If you own the copyright of an article that includes the right to take it off line as far as I am concerned!
       
       Which sites don't allow you to delete Linda?

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    LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

    Factoids is one, but you can republish after they have it for 30 days.  You can go to edit and erase everything, but that does not totally delete it.  I know you can delete from Ezine articles, but I am not sure as to how long they keep them in the system or on Internet. I forgot which ones, but I have seen some sites, that declare you the owner of your material, but they will not let you republish for at least a year.

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    LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

    Deleting isnt't hard, it is getting it off the Internet.  HP is the only one I am aware of that actually gets rid of the URL, so I will give them credit for that much.

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       Lissieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       If the url is deleted the content should eventually be deindexed - it may take a couple of weeks - but it will go. This is not in control of the site - its how often Google's bots are updating the site.
       
       If that url is remaining indexed - that doesn't matter - so long as the content is no longer there. If it is there - that means you haven't got control of your own copyright (which I think is the case with some writers type sites).
       
       I'm not talking about republishing here - ie creating duplicate content, I'm talking about moving content which was formerly published on hubpages to a very similar url over at wizzley.

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       mistyhorizon2003posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       If you want to get an unpublished article de-indexed on the Internet within 24 hours simply login to Google's Webmaster tools and use the URL removal tool. The article should be gone from the Internet the following day. It isn't HP removing the URL's, it is Google.
       
       https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools … mp;rlf=all

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          Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          No.  HP is removing the URL, Google is removing their cache of it.

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             mistyhorizon2003posted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I know this, but assumed (wrongly) that Linda might be confusing the  URL with the Cached version of the article itself. It seemed obvious to me that once a hub was unpublished the URL was available again and that this is just how HP is set up, I was not aware that if you unpublished articles elsewhere they would keep the article up anyway, (not even sure how that is possible as surely unpublished is unpublished!). I would have then thought the Google removal tool would have erased the Cached article wherever it had been originally located.

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    LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

    Gotcha:  I have deleted articles and thought they were gone over  year ago.  I still run across one now and then.  I fogot the site, but there is one that also posts on other sites, like Triond, etc.  You don't know where your articles are published once you place them on the primary site. I am not referring to using directories either.
    
    I wasn't sure if I could move my hubs, once the url is gone to Wizzley, but they said it is okay.

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       Lissieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Probably ezinearticles - as they are an article directory so your articles can be legally reprinted on other sites

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          Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Triond has a bunch of sites of different niches that they publish your articles on. You can, however, delete them at any time because you own the rights.

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    LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

    No it wasn't them.  It was from one of the known sites like Hub pages, and Triond. I just cannot remember either site.

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    LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

    Without amazon without adsense, I have earned a few cents shy of 8 bucks this month by moving my hubs elsewhere. Until today, I only had published one article for that particular site, now I have 9 published for the month. 
    
    My earnings here for 27 hubs published starting August had earned less than 6 bucks this month, and less than 10 bucks total.

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    Victoria Lynnposted 12 years ago

    Have your removed many of your hubs, Linda, as it only seems you have one left? I started in August, and now have 54 hubs and have earned much more than what you mention. Have you tried to up the traffic for your hubpges? Sorry you're leaving, as I really have liked this site.

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    LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

    I have removed all but one.  I am still sorting through the 17 I have left.  There are still 5 that have not been totally removed from here yet.  The 17 once all deleted from here, I am still trying to decide where I am going to put them.

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    LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

    Poetry seems to get the highest hub scores.  Crap hubs get good scores.  So, what is the point.  Now the Amazon thing, I can make more money at the other site, and possibly some others, than I do here.  And besides that, I get paid on a monthly basis without having to earn some crazy minimum that I lose should they decide to yank account, or because of not posting fror a certain amount of time.  I earn my money, and I want to be paid for what I have earned.  This is like having a job, not getting paid for a month, get fired, and the boss keeps your pay just because he fired you.

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    Victoria Lynnposted 12 years ago

    Well, I'm sorry you've been disappointed here. Poetry definitely doesn't get the highest scores,as about half of my hubs are poems. And I've noticed that poorly written stuff doesn't usually get high scores.  I write quality stuff as far as grammar and writing, as I have a background in writing/composition. I would be interested in what site you have found success in as far as getting paid. I haven't been here long, and, while I've done fairly well, I'm always interested in what else is out there. I wish you the best of luck.

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    LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

    Sent it to you by message.  Plus I do a little for textbroker and can earn a couple of bucks for 70 word snippets.

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    LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

    Misty:  There seems to be a bit of a debate here on that one.  But, I did use your link. It is worth using as far as I am concerned.  There are sites where you delete an article but they do not delete the URL and keep article floating around, while they still earn money on it. So regardless of who deletes what, your URL can be a double protection, as well as a way to rid of the URL from other sites if you delete.  Thanks for information. I didn't know that function existed.

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       mistyhorizon2003posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Glad you found the link useful. I have used it well over 100 times now, and it is a fantastic tool to speed up the URL removal process. I am confused as to how you can unpublish an article and the site be able to continue to use the article, as surely the page would come up as 'not found' if anyone tried to go to it. The cached version would still be out there, but the URL removal tool solves that problem so you can use your text elsewhere.

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    LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

    Even though HP has deleted the URL, you can still find it on internet with a error message, this page, yada yada yada.  I just ran the URLs I have on hand through Google link from MIsty and it will remove those outdated pages as well.  So the Error message pertaining to site it was originally on, such as HP will be gone too.

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    LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

    Thisisoli:  Another thing to is that I can use Amazon reports to see not only what is selling, but which links are working, and which products, and how many views those products are getting even if no sale made.  This information is going to help me get rid of products that nobody seems to care about, and revamp things or do some price comparisons with other retail stores and my other affiliate merchants to see if there is a better price which may be why I am getting a lot of views on product but no sales. a
    
    This who thing is like walking in and taking over a mans business. Tell he it is his business, he can run it, but he cannot see what his profit or loss is, or where profit and loss is at,  and he will get paid once a month depending on the mood I am in and what I think he is worth that month.  But he is not privvy to that information either.

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42. STAFF

    Paul Edmondsonposted 12 years ago

    Just a heads up that we are still working on the questions and should post them tomorrow.

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    LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

    MIsty I am using it for all of the hubs I have moved.  It is suppose to remove the empty pages.  When I put the url in, a page comes up with message and hubs by others. I hope this tool will get rid of them too.  They are pending right now, so I will see what happens.  I reposted 9 hubs and have earn 10 bucks just for posting, without amazon, without adsense.  Now published, I will continue earning residual income.  I didnt earn 10 bucks for the 27 hubs I posted since August here.

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       mistyhorizon2003posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       You should find by at some point tomorrow the URL's are all deindexed (at least that has always been my experience when using the Google URL Removal Tool). I am sorry you have earned so little here since August. It took me a year + to hit my first ever payout with HP, but I do make payout easily now, although I know not all do. My earnings actually skyrocketed in Oct, but I was doing okay before that too (although I dropped by quite a bit after Panda).

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    LindaSmith1posted 12 years ago

    That tool from google is really going to help somewhat.  I have artices out there and don't even know where they are at.  But at least I can deal with the current ones. The others aren't that important anyway. So, now I just have to decide what I am going to do with the rest I have removed. I posted my holiday hubs where I can earn from them now before the season ends. Others, with Amazon products, weren't doing that great, so they went for money now and residual, rather than possble sales. I can always do snippets on my sites.  I have almost the same amount of traffic in 2 days than I got here in 3 months. I really wanted the majority of what I write in one spot and the rest on my blogs or sites, then link back and forth.  So now it is back to testing other sites again.

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       HikeGuyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Good luck, Linda.
       
       Still no follow-up on this topic?

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    rocheljposted 12 years ago

    "To reach the 8.5% top tier with Amazon, you have to sell 3,131 products per month (or more than 100 per day). So this is an absurdly good deal for everyone.
    https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/gp … ation.html
    
    Marina's working on the FAQ entries and hopefully they should be up today. Thank you for your patience."
    
    quote from Jason Menayan:
    
    see his comment here:
    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/88015#top

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       thisisoliposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       This is not such a good idea for many of us.  While I do understand why Hubpages are doing this, the mandatory stance is not so good for some of us.

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          PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I think everybody would prefer a choice, even those of us who plan to join the new scheme regardless.  It's difficult to know what practical issues HP might have, however.  For instance, they might have agreed with Amazon to move everyone over, there might be issues with the administration, technical issues.  I am speculating, of course, but I would assume there will be reasons.   There are so many different situations for hubbers, so a choice would be ideal, but I would guess there are practical problems which go against this?

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             Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Yes, I thought the same.

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