Defending one's Faith

1. 61

   Dave Mathewsposted 11 years ago

   On CTV Morning News this morning CTV reported about a young "Christian" man in Nova Scotia Canada who has been suspended from school for 3 days for wearing a T-shirt to school that has printed on it "Life is wasted without JESUS".
   
   This is yet another invasion of our rights to freedom of religion, and freedom of expression, as Christians in a world that is slowly and systematically being eroded away by the few that might find this as offensive.
   
   How much more are we as "Christians" must we endure?
   How many times are we to offer the other cheek too, before drawing a line in the sand and saying enough is enough, so far and no further?

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      Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Is there a limit to how many times you have to turn the other cheek? I did not know that.
      
      What do you propose?

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      1. 61

         Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Mark this is the kind of response I have grown to expect from you for you have no respect for a person's beliefs or faith.
         
         As for what I propose: I feel that people should be outraged that this young person is being persecuted for expressing his personal faith beliefs and maybe contact CTV to express their outrage.

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      Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      At least the guy would be better to be too high on Jesus than to be too high on Drugs
      
      Me, everything with balance

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   3. 71

      Titen-Sxullposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      How much more must Christians endure?
      
      Such language for so trivial a matter makes a mockery of people who ACTUALLY suffer religious persecution. It used to be that Christians were fed to lions in arenas and torn limb from limb for their beliefs, so it takes either ignorance, or incredible stupidity, to declare that you're being persecuted for not being able to wear a T-Shirt. There are people still to this day being thrown in prisons or worse for practicing their religion and you think you have the right to call persecution when someone was forced to change their shirt?
      
      In the words of charlie brown, GOOD GRIEF!
      
      By the way how would you feel if you were, say, a Jewish student going to the same school as this kid? Suddenly, as a Jew, you're being told by your fellow student that your entire LIFE IS WASTED simply because you don't accept Jesus as the Messiah. While certainly I don't think the student should be punished for the shirt even YOU have to admit how the contents of the shirt could be seen as offensive to non-Christians, who are being told they're lives are worthless.

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      1. 61

         Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Titen: you would not think this so trivial if it were happening to you. Smarten up! You might be next that someone might attack.

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            Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            How is this child being attacked?
            
            Still like to know what your answer is. Not preaching seems the best way to me.

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         2. 71

            Titen-Sxullposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Yes I would think it was trivial. A school has the right to decide what attire is appropriate for students. In my public high school and middle school we even had a mandatory school uniform.
            
            His shirt is obviously belittling other people's beliefs, implying that a life spent in any other religion, or with no religion, is wasted. Can you not see how that might be deemed inappropriate? Put yourself in the shoes of a Jewish or Muslim student at that school seeing a shirt that tells you you're wasting your life, practice a little EMPATHY.

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            1. 61

               Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I understand and I do agree that it was worded incorrectly. Had he put the word "MY" at the beginning would have been more appropriate but he didn't do that. That does not mean that he should have been expelled for 5 days. The school could have sent him home to change and return, but they didn't. Instead they ordered him to take off the shirt, thus leaving his upper torso naked and exposed, without offering even a school sports t-shirt to cover up.

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               1. 71

                  Titen-Sxullposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I agree that he should NOT have been suspended but merely sent home to change. I do think that the shirt could be easily seen as disruptive as it sends a negative message about non-Christians (namely that their lives are wasted).
                  
                  One thing is clear, this is not some poor Christian being persecuted unfairly, this is a matter of a school determining what is proper attire conducive to learning. There is real persecution and oppression of religious persons but this isn't it.

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   4. 60

      sampeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      See, this is why exactly Christianity is run by "so-called" professed Christians. I am a Christian as well, and find what this kid did as an offense to Jesus.
      
      Do you think Jesus would do that? Did He boast all the time that He is God and that He could do more than a human can?
      
      If he really wanted to show the real Christian in him,  Live it! Don't just wear the talk, but live it. That is the best spreading anyone can do.

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      1. 61

         Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         He is living it as far as I'm concerned. He defends his faith while under attack by other students, by wearing the T-Shirt.

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            sampeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I don't think so. He wouldn't have to wear the t-shirt. It would be all over his actions, which I think is a far better way to defend than a dumb t-shirt.

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   5. 0

      SusieQ42posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      While it would be nice if everyone knew Jesus as their Savior, no life is a waste.  There's always the chance for the unsaved to be saved!  I can see why the shirt would be offensive to those who don't know Him, but really, suspend this kid for wearing it?  Nonsense!

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      1. 61

         Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Granted the wording on the T-Shirt is not totally in good taste.  Maybe if he had printed " My Life"  instead of stating "Life" in general?

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   6. 60

      paradigmsearchposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      In this day and age, many schools ban all religious and political T-shirt statements. Sometimes it's because of the ever obnoxious political correctness, but many times it's because such declarations have repeatedly escalated into incidences of violence. If there is a solution to this, I haven't figured it out yet.
      
      Bottom line though is that your particular religion wasn't being picked on by the school in this case.

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      1. 61

         Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I hate to report that you are wrong. Christianity was indeed under attack, and the man was defending his faith and his right to freedom of expression.

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            jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Who is attacking Christians? They might be dumb not knowing there is no point in flogging buffalos.

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            jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Who is attacking Christians? They might be dumb not knowing there is no point in flogging buffalos and asses.

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            1. 61

               Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               jomine be kind and careful, I am a Christian. It might be you I flog.

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Wow! Kristians flog people? Iz that wot god sed?

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                  1. 61

                     Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Mark to bad you cannot even spell Christians correctly let alone the remainder of your comment is misspelled. I know you can do better than that. When David smote the giant with his slingshot, that's more than just flogging in my books.

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                        Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Too bad or to bad?
                        
                        You Kristians are funny. When who smote wot?

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         CMHypnoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         School uniform - stops all arguments!

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   7. 60

      By His Wayposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Edited:
      
      
      Watched and read the report.
      
      Hmm.....
      
      
      In this particular case, that t-shirt message can be seen as insulting. There are better phrases that could be worn. Secondly, the school needs to make sure to discipline ALL negative messages if they continue with this.

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      1. 61

         Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         In the young man's report on CTV News, no other religious factions are being attacked. If you were a drug user and supported drug abuse, this would be permitted but to be a "Christian" and either vocally or via demonstration with a T-Shirt like his to defend one's faith, you come under attack.
         
         The man was suspended because he was ordered to take off the shirt and refused.

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            By His Wayposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            "Secondly, the school needs to make sure to discipline ALL negative messages if they continue with this."
            
            
            I agree.

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            1. 61

               Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I fully agree.

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   8. 0

      jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If he was wearing the same shirt for 3 days he should not only be suspended, he should be dismissed or locked up in a single room. People have their right for fresh air!

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         Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Only you could mis-read the three days. He was suspended for that period.

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            jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            That is ok, anyway education is not bringing any sense to him.

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   9. 70

      Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      First off, the shirt is a lie to begin with. Life is not wasted without Jesus. Only those who don't understand life would think so.
      
      Dave, knowing you're a Canadian citizen and not knowing Canada Constitution? I'm hard pressed to see it as an invasion of rights to freedom of religion and/or freedom of expression. Kids go to schools to learn. Secondly, I don't have a problem with someone wearing the shirt and I don't know why others would either. Those who know it's a lie will either (a) say something about it (b) do nothing and move on.
      
      Endure? It's people of this sort which are forcing other people to endure the irrational nature of the belief of a G/god.
      
      You draw any line and you demonstrate you have learned nothing from your religious beliefs or it's teachings, which is about tolerance for those who supposedly don't know any better. It's a shame you don't understand that.

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   10. 75

       jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Dave,
       No offense, but nothing you mentioned in the OP has a thing to do with faith -nor defending it- and everything to do with marketing.
       
       Faith is not something to defend -in reality cannot be defended, because it can never be offended. Faith is a power; not a metaphor, not a doctrine, not a belief and is certainly without the necessity of freedom and the ability to be enslaved.
       
       James

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       1. 61

          Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          What CTV News Report were you seeing? He was persecuted because of His faith and his belief in freedom to free expression.

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          1. 75

             jacharlessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Really?
             Obviously Christianity needs a refresher course in what "persecution" actually is.
             Second, he did in fact express his religious right by wearing a t-shirt representing his deity named Jesus.
             
             And with that right comes the right of others to challenge that opinion/belief. Equal rights under the law, I believe the term goes.
             Why is his right greater than theirs?
             
             Law is law.
             
             James

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2. 0

   Motown2Chitownposted 11 years ago

   Was the kid suspended from a public school?  If so, maybe he shouldn't have been wearing a T-shirt with such a radical statement on it.  Would you agree that he shouldn't have been suspended if he wore one that said something like "Life is wasted without NARCOTICS?
   
   With all due respect, defending one's faith only becomes necessary when others are attacking it.  Wearing that T-shirt to school was more about the kid proclaiming his faith.  A public school isn't necessarily the appropriate forum for him to do so.
   
   IMO

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   1. 61

      Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Motown: It matters not the kind of school. I do not see anything so radical about expressing one's law-protected point of view. Indeed if you bothered to checkout the CTV news report on this you would see for yourself that it is because he is being attacked at school, that he decided to make and wear this T-Shirt.

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         Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I didn't say there is anything wrong with someone expressing one's point of view.  I did say that there are appropriate places to do so.

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            Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            That is nonsense. In other words he can only wear the T-Shirt in his bedroom at home. I think not.

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               Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Personally, I don't care where he wears the T-shirt - BUT, I do care that he is breaking the rules to do so and bullying other students about the "waste" their lives are by hiding behind his "Christian" message.  Would you feel the same way about the situation if he came into your Roman Catholic church wearing a T-shirt that said - "Your lives are wasted because you believe in Jesus?"  Be realistic, Dave.  You do not appear to have an objective view here is all I'm saying.
               
               

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Damn the lack of a "like" button.
                  
                  Dave is getting what he wants.

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                     Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Thanks, Mark.    And, I do believe Dave may be getting what he wants.  I just think it's a bit misguided to consider this situation as 'persecution' of Christians or the student's actions as being taken in defense of his faith.  IMO, both this student and the fellow hubber who is so passionately championing his 'cause' are both making much more of this situation than is actually there.
                     
                     FACT - the kid was suspended for defying the rules of his school after being given several opportunities to resolve the issue.

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               2. 61

                  Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Motown: If he'd said: "My Life is wasted without Jesus" would this have been agreeable?

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                     Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     For me, personally, not really.  If he wants to express his faith, he should do it by behaving the way Jesus did, not by advertising it on his clothing.  But I agree that this may have been a little bit more acceptable...it wouldn't have been as insulting worded that way.

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         Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/C … OttawaHome
         
         Here is the link.  Truth be told, it appears that the student was suspended not for wearing the T-shirt at all, but rather for defying numerous requests to not wear it any longer because it had been found offensive.  I have respect for those who stand behind their views, but when they CHOOSE to disobey the rules to do so, they should rightfully be willing to bear any consequence it may bring about.

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3. 90

   Patty Inglish, MSposted 11 years ago

   Some of our schools here ban the wearing of any shirts that have words or phrases on them. I rather like that.

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      Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Sounds like a good way of avoiding arguments.

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         Patty Inglish, MSposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, it seems to work well.

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   2. 61

      Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Patty: According to that sort of thinking, the young man's mind should be void too.

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4. 94

   MsDoraposted 11 years ago

   Hooray to this kid for not being ashamed of his faith! We are not aware of all the circumstances surrounding his decision to wear the shirt, so we cannot judge his motives.  However, I agree that if T-Shirts with banners are not allowed, printing JESUS on it, does not make it all right to wear.
   
   My concern though, is that many Christians will join the DEFENSE of the student's right to demonstrate his faith.  We wouldn't know that some of them are Christians if they did not join the PROTEST.  The truth is, we promote our faith far better in practical, peaceful, selfless acts of love in our everyday lives.  Let's wear JESUS in our hearts and lives.  Then, the external BANNER might be less offensive.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      MsDora: I would not be reporting this injustice to the young man, if I were not aware of the situation, of him being persecuted both by fellow students and by the school itself who thought it necessary to expell him.
      
      As for others possibly joining the man's protest to defend the rights of all to freely express a belief or, a faith, I'd love for that to happen.
      
      I'd also love to see every "True Christian" E-Mailing the CTV News Station in support of this young man. He deserves our backing, 100%

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         Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Dave, while I respect your position and passion for it, I think you're deliberately blowing the story out of proportion to garner assent to your particular opinion about it.  You didn't link the story - I did above if you care to look at it.
         
         The student was not expelled, he was suspended for a few days.  There is a large difference between the two.

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            Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Motown: expelled suspended he still cannot attend until the time is ended. What if the suspension costs him his year, or his chance to attend a good university? I suppose that's fair and just over a T-Shirt? No not in my books.

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               Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               In that case, he should have stopped wearing the T-shirt the first time they asked him to do so.  He chose to repeatedly defy that request, and therefore has to man up and endure the consequence he has created from his action.
               
               
               
               And trust me - missing three days in your senior year (grade 12 as you folks call it) is not going to do any damage to his university options.  This far into his last year of high school, those options should be signed, sealed, and delivered.  If they are not, it certainly isn't because of this instance.

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5. 94

   peeplesposted 11 years ago

   He should be able to wear his Christian shirt, muslims should be able to wear theirs, and my son should be able to wear one saying "Jesus is not real" all without anyone complaining. That is freedom of religion.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You are so right. This is true democratic freedom and freedom of religious expression.

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         Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         You will be happy with VooDoo practitioners killing cocks in teh school yard at lunchtime then? And KKK members parading?

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         Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         This was in a high school? A minor? They don't necessarily get freedom of expression in the States. They have to abide by school rules and policies. Is it different in Canada?

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6. 60

   Disappearingheadposted 11 years ago

   Whilst he's entitled to express his views he should consider the respect or lack of respect he will gain by sharing them in this manner. This tee-shirt does nothing to further the spread of Christianity; nobody is going to read the words and think "gosh that kid is so right, I must now receive Jesus as my saviour". All it will do is invite derision and further reinforce people's negative stereotypes of Christianity. He is doing his cause no favours here.
   
   Speaking as a Christian I wouldn't be seen dead wearing such a tee-shirt or any other like it; they are hideously cringing. Much better to share faith by actions and by words with those who are actually interested.

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      sampeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly! Agree no more. Actions speak more than words.

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         Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Still the man is entitled to express his belief, and defend his faith regardless of the bad wording.

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            Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Yes he is Dave, but he needs to ask himself if the tee-shirt is the most appropriate method especially given that he was asked not to wear it. He does his faith no good cause if he is seen to disrespect the authority of the school.

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               Dave Mathewsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I can share your views what you say makes sense. Also Jesus disrespected the Pharisees calling them vipers and hypocrites.

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7. 60

   paradigmsearchposted 11 years ago

   I just stumbled across this...
   
   "...kid in my class got busted for wearing a shirt that read, "Gods last name is not damnit"..."

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      Neil Sperlingposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      LOL -- That is his (her) last name!  LMAO

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8. 0

   jomineposted 11 years ago

   Should this be banned or allowed as an expression of faith in school?
   
   
   http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4113/500 … 8164_z.jpg
   

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      Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Is that being a Jesus bigot, or is just the bible Translations are wrong?

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