Who trusts Paul Ryan to reduce the deficit he helped create?

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   Xenonlitposted 11 years ago

       Paul Ryan contributed to the current deficit with these votes, yet stands there with a straight face and says Obama is "wrecking" the country. Remember these facts:
   
   
   
   Invade Iraq  HR 114       
   
   Voted Yea   $1.3 trillion and counting
   
   
   First and Second Bush  tax cuts in  2001 and 2003
                                        
   Voted Yea    $4.4 trillion projected by 2013
   
   
   Medicare Prescription Drug Bill
   
   Voted Yea    $730 billion projected cost

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      twosheds1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I agree. I think Romney made a big mistake picking Ryan. Whether or not he's responsible for the deficit is a matter of debate, but the perception that's responsible is certainly there. Or even if he didn't help create it, there is the perception that he is part of the impasse in Congress that is preventing work from getting done.
      
      Also, there is the "two rich white guys" perception. Rubio would have been a much better choice.

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         Tawadiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         And if he'd chosen Rubio instead, libs would be screaming about him instead.
         
         I think the libs are running scared. Their guy is done and they know it.

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            twosheds1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Why would liberals scream about Rubio? Romney can pick whomever he wants. By picking Ryan, Romney has alienated a large number of moderates, and those are who he needs to win. Personally, I think the Dems are delighted he picked Ryan, because that just handed the election to Obama.
            
            BTW, Obama isn't a liberal, but he's the best we have.

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               Tawadiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               "Why would liberals scream about Rubio?"
               
               It's been my experience, most liberals scream about EVERYTHING. It doesn't matter who Romney chose, libs would be screaming about something. It's part of their DNA. Keep in mind I said MOST.
               
               Any moderates Romney may have lost, he gained that and many more Conservatives. As for handing the election to Obama, I think you'll be surprised. Quite frankly, I think Obama is done but we'll see come November.
               
               Lastly, if you think "Obama isn't a liberal, but he's the best we have," then you must be left of Marx. If he's your best, that speaks very little for the rest. Not an insult, just an observation.

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                  twosheds1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Stereotype much? Saying how much Ryan sucks is not the same as "screaming" about his choice.
                  
                  Many mainstream journalists (including some that are fairly conservative, such as David Brooks) have labeled Obama as "center-right." As far as candidates for president, he is the best we (i.e. liberals) have, because people like the Green Party candidate, though more liberal, have zero chance of even making a dent in the popular vote.

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                     Tawadiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Something tells me if I stated how much Obama sucks or started "screaming" about him, your attitude would change.
                     
                     If Obama is the best you've got, it's not saying much but liberals aren't looking for a candidate that the protect and defend the U.S. Constitution. Rather they want someone who will do everything possible to destroy it. If that's what you want, I guess Obama is the best you've got.

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                        twosheds1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        You obviously didn't understand my point, but whatever.
                        
                        Would you care to provide some examples of how Obama has "destroyed" the Constitution? Or how liberals want it "destroyed?" Please rrestrict your arguments to facts, and not hearsay or BS.

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                           Tawadiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           You obviously missed my point but whatever.

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               Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               No it did not. The Republican will steal the election. They have disenfranchised over 5 million voters with various plots and ploys.
               
               We need to get these dangerous traitors out of office and keep them out of office, but it may be too late.

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                  Longhunter1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  "We need to get these dangerous traitors out of office and keep them out of office, but it may be too late."
                  
                  Yeah, those DEMS are "traitors." That's exactly what we should do!!! Kick them out!!!
                  
                  Come on, Xenonlit! You can't believe that anymore than I meant what I said. A person is not a traitor simply because they disagree with you or the president. To believe that way is, frankly, immature and silly.

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            2besureposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Romney would never have choose Rubio for a VP pick.    You say how crazy they got when Obama became president.   Can you imagine if Romney was President and suddenly died and Rubio (an Hispanic)  was President?  They would go stark raving insane!!!

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               Tawadiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               The difference between Obama and Rubio is Obama is a Socialist where Rubio is a Conservative. Conservatives want Obama out because he doesn't believe in our Constitution and wants to change this country into his vision, the wrong image, and image that's totally different from what the Founding Fathers created. He wants this country to be no better than any other country.
               
               It's simple. If someone doesn't like this country, no one is keeping them here. They are welcome to leave at their own free will, heading off to any of the numerous Socialist countries around the globe.

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                  Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  "Obama is a Socialist"
                  
                  Obama isn't even a liberal Democrat, let alone a socialist. Did you ever take a course in economics? Did you pass? Was it at Bob Jones University?

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                     Sooner28posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     George Orwell wrote about the fact that fascism in his day had come to be defined as 'anything I don't like or agree with.' 
                     
                     I see the majority of conservatives using socialism and communism references in the same way.

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                        tom hellertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Sorry Ralphy- Just go read a description of socialism and damn sure enough Obama fits nicely into that camp based on everything he has done or wants to do....facts dont lie besides ;ineralism is just Socialism light..

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                           Mighty Momposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           What is ;ineralism?

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                           Ralph Deedsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about. You wouldn't recognize a socialist if he bit you in the ass. Why don't you just tell us what Obama policies or actions you don't agree with. For example, do you agree with his giving the green light to the raid that resulted in the killing of Osama Bin Laden? Do you agree with his reduction in ground combat and increased use of drones against Al Qaida? Do you disagree with his decision to wind down the Bush wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Name calling doesn't get you much credibility in these forums.

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            mikelongposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Not running scared at all......Actually, the GOP has been running around like headless fowl since they realized Bush was an incompetent and Cheney was a crook...
            
            People who claim Obama is a socialist have no clue what socialism actually is...  Then again, that is a common problem with "conservatives"......
            
            The GOP will be dealt another loss in November......perhaps when they get their heads out of their bums they can start figuring out how ridiculous they really are...

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         Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         My philosophy is: if you voted for it, you're responsible for it. For Ryan to have supported the mess, then deny responsibility for the results is a real cop out.

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      prettydarkhorseposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      he wants to increase the interest rate which is not good for the poor
      
      he is an elitist

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      2besureposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Please.....!

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      Sooner28posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Great straight forward layout of Ryan's hypocrisy.  His own budget does the same thing though...
      
      He wants huge tax cuts for the rich and increases in defense spending in his "Path to Prosperity," which is Orwellian doublespeak at it's finest.  Looks like he may actually be more consistent than I realized.  He's consistently been a corporate cretin!

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   Credence2posted 11 years ago

   Are you kidding? Paul Ryan is just another right wing apparatchik. An all American chiseler who now touts the mantle of "fiscal responsibility". They say that an elephant/pachyderm never forgets, well I don't either.

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      Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      We cannot let them win in November. We have too many two faced Democrats who will jump to their side or hide themselves. We cannot have another year of stalemate.

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   chefsrefposted 11 years ago

   Whenever Republicans get in charge they run up the deficit. All we need to do is remember when President Bush cut taxes while starting wars. Expect more of the same, if you ain't rich you have no reason to vote for these guys

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      Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You nailed it! I can't believe that we're even having to state the obvious this year.

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         Tawadiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         What is obvious is Barack Hussein Obama is the worst president in my lifetime, if not in U.S. history, a title I bet Jimmy Carter is glad to finally be rid of.
         
         Come on November!!! Then on to January 20, 2013. It's a Sunday and when Obama is gone, it'll truly be a great day of prayer of thanksgiving.

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            TIMETRAVELER2posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I really love it when people use Obama's middle name to reinforce his supposed ethnicity.  Is that all you've got?

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               Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Notice how they attack without really saying anything?
               
               Let me try:  Romney/Ryan will destroy this nation! There!

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                  Tawadiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  All you've said are talking points, Xenonlite. Makes one wonder if liberals can form a coherent thought without consulting CNN or MSNBC first.
                  
                  I can tell the nerves of the liberals are frayed. They're getting scarred. Their guy is on his way out and you know it.

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               Tawadiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I use Obama's middle name for one reason and one reason only - to piss people off - and obviously I struck a nerve, TT2.

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   Paul Wingertposted 11 years ago

   

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      Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      

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      twosheds1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Dude, that's creepy.

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      TIMETRAVELER2posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      LOL!!

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   Tawadiposted 11 years ago

   I trust Romney and Ryan far more than I do the current "occupant" of the Oval Office.

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      Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I am so sorry for your loss.

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         Tawadiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         We shall see come November, Xenonlit. We shall see. But I get this wonderful feeling come January 20, 2013 we'll be watching Barack Hussein Obama leave Washington, D.C. for the last time.

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            Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Technically, if that happens (which I doubt), it would be for the first time.

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               Tawadiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Ahhhh, splitting hairs, are we? I really don't care if it's the first or the last, as long as he leaves and doesn't come back.

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            tom hellertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Tawandi, In January  2013 it will be time to take out the trash and reverse Barrys  trillion dollars swindle . the deficit has increased under barry by 19%-"deficit neutral my arse" thats according to CBO- but if we dont get rid of BarryCare-  then we have the fairy tale that if Obama stays in office (ugh) his rate of growth in HIS upcoming budgets are well- I'll let National Review describe them The most obvious political effect of more-optimistic projections is they allow the administration to claim smaller budget deficits, because higher growth brings in more tax revenue.
            There’s one wonky reason that the administration’s mid-term growth forecasts are higher than consensus. Obama’s economists believe the economy will return eventually to the production path it was traveling before the Great Recession. Some other economists predict growth will never return to that track – that it has taken a permanent step down, from which it will now grow. In other words just more Hopefull change that wont happen. bit you Kool aiders will just keep slurpin his BS I'm sure.

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               Cody Hodgeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Are there any conservatives who can write at a higher than 5th grade level on these forums?

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                  twosheds1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Multi-syllable words are elitist!

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                     tom hellertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Just writing so Liberals can understand us. Whenever we use scientific facts,  "big numbers", or complicated (hard to understand) concepts liberals get distracted looking things up on dictionary . com, or they just quit, I'm just trying to make sure you Libs understand what I am saying, so... your welcome...
                     TH

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      tom hellertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Tawandi - so do I since everything he said before the election was a lie....but these liberal wonks will never admit how bad Obama sucks the deficit Now in the trillions is his he rammed through healthcare when he had both the house&Senate ll the cool aid drinkers cant bring them selves to admit the problems we were in have only been made worse by lil Barry O.

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      rhamsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Trust is a pretty strong term when it comes to these greedy slimeballs. And I mean all of them. It is funny how easily people are swayed by a faux reaction to a crisis and determine that is the guy for me. Look at "W" who ran up the deficiet and started two wars just to kill one man. And look at the current president carrying on in his stead. It makes no sense that we continue to vote these self seeking egomaniacs in to office that dramatically change our lives and when the time comes to rectify we do it all over again. It is pure insanity. If you trust Romney so much why is it he can't tell a straight story or own up to his record and runs a end game on his tax returns. Trust this guy?

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         tom hellertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I trust Mitt more than the guy who wont unseal his birth certificate or college records what is in them thats so damming against Mr Soetoro?  Why dont we see the emails etc behind fast n furious where hundreds of people have died because he letguns disappear into Mexico? I won't even get into the absolutely snake-like way he and the dems passed the mess known as Obamacare....So PLEASE, people in glass houses etc...

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            rhamsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            So trust comes because you can stand the stench of one liar over another. I know I hold my nose when I go into the booth but does the stink go away with your leap of faith? This system is totally broken and if anything can be believed trustworthy is that the US electorate has terrible choices and gets consummately screwed by either party they put in power. The only hope anybody has is to make it a stalemate between the two so they don't have anymore access to taking away our rights or money. The money that is heralded as the power of victory in an election is discusting and almost pornographic in its display of decadence and morality. Until we understand that the handlers (Big Business and the Banks) are in charge and not the electorate who are wooed and manipulated by the same bought media nothing will change and there is no logical choice to vote for. They are both equally shameful.

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            Sooner28posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Birther alert!

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   Wizard Of Whimsyposted 11 years ago

   From Slate:
   
   Numbers can be cruel. They take away the soft, gauzy rhetoric that shrouds political platitudes and subject them to a hard-edged reality. So it is for the Ryan budget. The document was lengthy enough that it—and he—automatically acquired gravitas. Yet it was examined carefully by precious few, which is probably a good thing for Ryan. Here is the number that is perhaps the key to his view of the future: 3.75 percent.
   
   That number, according to Ryan’s own analysis, is the percentage of GDP that the government will spend by 2050 on everything other than Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. In other words, as both the Atlantic's Derek Thompson and the Washington Post's Ezra Klein point out, the money spent on education, unemployment insurance, food stamps, environmental protection, infrastructure investment, the NIH, the FDA, the FAA, the FBI, veterans benefits, and most notably, defense—all of these expenditures together can cost no more than 3.75 percent of GDP.
   
   So what is the problem? Well, Romney says that defense alone requires 4 percent of GDP—he has pledged that.  The way I was taught arithmetic, 4 is bigger than 3.75. That means that their own plans leave absolutely nothing- for these other critical areas of government spending. Let's say they revise their estimate to 3 percent of GDP for defense, leaving .75 percent for everything else. How much would that be? In today's dollars: $113 billion. That’s less than the annual budget authority of the department of education alone.
   
   The point is that the Ryan budget simply doesn't work. "Everything else," from the Justice Department to the EPA, isn't going to just shut down. The numbers don't add up.
   
   As the old saying goes: garbage in, garbage out. The Ryan budget dictates that revenues won’t go above 19 percent of GDP, while an aging population will require additional spending in Medicare and Social Security. The document simply does not comport with reality.
   
   The Ryan budget, even with its "ending Medicare as we know it," leaves us with deficits until sometime between 2030 and 2040, with nothing left for anything other than Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, and defense, and a tax plan that shifts more and more of the burden of all this onto the middle class.
   
   This critique is not ideology—this is the simple arithmetic of the Ryan budget, straight from the pages of his own document.
   
   The more folks learn about the Romney/Ryan budget, the more folks will realize that it is about as reliable as the fiscal plan of the last person to preach this gospel: George W. Bush.

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      Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well done! Your statement of the facts makes it clear that cheap slogans, repeating the words "liberty" and "freedom", and saying nothing works better than the truth. This is what Ryan has been relying upon, but he made a big mistake by putting himself in the spotlight.
      
      Now the facts will broken down and presented in ways that people can understand. He was an odd choice for Vice President, given his problems.

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         Wizard Of Whimsyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I have to laugh, Xenonlit.  Bill Maher made the point that here is a guy who agrees with absolutely everything Sarah Palin and Michele Bachman says and yet he is "the heavyweight intellectual" of the Republican Party.

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            Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Is a " heavyweight intellectual" of the Republican Party" possible? ha ha!

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               tom hellertposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               WE SURE DONT HAVE A HEAVYWEIGHT DEMOCRAT IN THE pRESIDENT SPOT OR THE vp RIGHT NOW. rOMNEY,RUBIO OR RYAN ARE SMARTER INDIVIDUALLY THAN BARRY n BIDDEN COMBINED. PALIN IS SMARTER THAN EITHER JOE OR BARRY TOO...Obamas brain power is a myth like the Cubs winning the world series allot people hope its true but no one has seen it..

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                  twosheds1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  At least "Barry" knows how to use his Caps Lock key.

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      chefsrefposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Wizard, stop trying to confuse people with facts. I am still trying to digest that Ryan is a "conservative" that voted for two unfunded wars, TARP, the expansion of welfare, the bail out of the banks and tax cuts, all of which increased the deficit. Now he wants to cut the deficit by cutting Medicare etc. Each time conservatives get in control they run up the deficit and give us a recession

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         Wizard Of Whimsyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I feel your pain!

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            Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            

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      TIMETRAVELER2posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Bravo, WOW, Bravo!

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   Wizard Of Whimsyposted 11 years ago

   This just in:
   
   A really salient article from Fox News:
   
   Republicans should be careful what they wish for with Paul Ryan on the ticket
   
   http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/ … on-ticket/

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   Wizard Of Whimsyposted 11 years ago

   PAUL RYAN CAUGHT LYING: “I DID NOT REQUEST ANY STIMULUS MONEY.”
   
   http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/political/ … -paul-ryan
   
   The Boston Globe highlights the blatant dishonesty HERE:
   
   “All this temporary booster shot stimulus didn’t work in the stimulus package, didn’t work when the last administration tried these things, so we don’t want to go with ideas that have proven to fail, we want ideas that have proven to succeed,” he said in an interview on MSNBC in September 2011. “I think tax reform is the key.”
   
   Even when asked about any appeals he made for stimulus funds by the caller on WBZ in 2010, he stuck to his guns.
   
   “I assume you voted against the stimulus,” the caller, identifying himelf as Joe from Stoughton, began, “and I’m just curious if you accepted any money in your district.”
   
   “No, I’m not one [of those] people who votes for something then writes to the government to ask them to send us money. I did not request any stimulus money,” Ryan responded.
   
   The Associated Press reports on Paul Ryan’s lies HERE:
   
   The documents show that Ryan’s attempts to take advantage of the stimulus funds even after he voted against them was more expansive than previously reported. Ryan was criticized by some House Democrats in 2010 after the Wall Street Journal reported that he was among several Republicans lawmakers who sought the stimulus money for their constituents by, in his case, writing a letter in 2010 to the Department of Labor.
   
   The additional letters include his praise for the energy program’s aims, and clash with his own budget priorities, which call for curtailing many of the same Department of Energy investments that are designed to spur the growth of green technologies and reduce reliance on fossil fuels.
   
   You can find the four letters Ryan wrote requesting stimulus dollars in his district HERE: http://www.boston.com/politicalintellig … story.html

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      Tawadiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Really? There's an old saying: "It's like the pot calling the kettle black."
      
      If Obama's mouth is moving, he's lying, Wizard.

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         Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         You did an Ad Hominem attack: Told a lie to attack a person.

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            Longhunter1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            It's an old saying that fits. Nothing more.
            
            You can't call Ryan a liar without doing the same with Obama and you know as well as I do Obama is a liar. You don't want to see it but he is one.

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               Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               That old trick does not work. It is getting to be like a school yard with the REpublican extremists as a roving gang of bullies.

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         Wizard Of Whimsyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Thats a third grader's argument you have there, but what you may notice on a reread is that  I called no one a liar and you didn't refute the fact that Ryan was caught in a lie.
         
         

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            Tawadiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I said nothing about you, Wizard. I meant it's a pot calling the kettle black for Obama to say Ryan is lying. If Obama's lips are moving, he's lying. You may not like it but it's true. Obama is a liar.

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      Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It just keeps coming with those two, doesn't it? Good grief what a blatant lie for Ryan to deny taking stimulus money, then screaming about how wrong the stimulus is.
      
      The Republicans plan a coup d'etat by preventing 5 million Americans from voting. This is why they are not worried.

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   Ralph Deedsposted 11 years ago

   Maureen Dowd and Others Dissect Paul Ryan NYTimes 8-19-12
   
   Tom Morello: "I clearly see that Ryan has a whole lotta rage in him. A rage against women, a rage against immigrants, a rage against workers, a rage against gays, a rage against the poor, a rage against the environment. Basically, the only thing he's not raging against is the privileged elite he's groveling front of for campaign contributions."
   
   Howard Fineman: "Ryan turns out, upon closer inspection, not to be a purifying ideologhue, but rather a young, power-hungry, ladder-climbing trimmer." The self-styled deficit cutter wacked W's deficit exploding agenda, and the tut-tutting critic of the Obama stimulus grabbed for the president's stimulus money.
   
   Grover Norquist told Bloomberg's Al Hunt that Ryan would be the Dick Cheney of economic and tax policy. And that's a compliment.
   
   Maureen Dowd: "Ryan looks like a bonus Romney son, As Dan Quayle did with Bush senior. Republicans find the tableau of two rich white guys--same shirts, different generations--comforting...but the closer you get the uglier it gets."
   
   U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops on Ryan's Roadmap Budget: "A Just spending bill cannot rely on disproportionate cuts in essential services to poor and vulnerable persons." (In a letter to Congress)
   
   Jesuits: In a letter to Ryan--"Your budget appears to reflect the values of your favorite philosopher, Ayn Rand, rather than the Gospel of Jesus Christ."
   
   Ryan's former parish priest, Father Stephen Umhoefer: "You can't tell somebody that in 10 years your economic situation is going to be just wonderful because meanwhile your kids may starve to death."

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      Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      We need more of this: the truth instead of talk without meaning and outright lies.

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         Tawadiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Then you better come over to the Conservative side because you'll not get anything but lies from the liberal side.
         
         How do tell if a liberal is lying?
         
         His lips are moving.

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            Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            If this is the only selling point for going conservative, it is not working for us.

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               Tawadiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               When one expects the government to take care of them, I can see why they would want to remain a liberal.

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                  Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Let's see...the worst ugliness is coming from federal revenue negative welfare states...we have corporate bailouts and welfare, and we have Tea Party Republicans sucking up our tax dollars while they try to destroy my country...I'd say the Republicans are our worst nightmare right now. Cut off Federal funding to red welfare states and see who is really expecting the government to take care of them!

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                     Sooner28posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Odd that red states receive more federal tax dollars than blue states.  I know facts get in the way of Republican's mindless dogma.  Good to see you Xenon.

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            twosheds1posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            

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               Xenonlitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               

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