Work for $2 per day or lose your job!

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   Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years ago

   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … 2-day.html
   
   "World's richest woman calls for Australian workers to be paid $2 a day to compete with companies hiring cheap African staff."
   
   It's quite simple, really. All labor is done in the third world so that people in the first world (the rich ones, of course) can live like kings.
   
   Anyone not willing to work for $2 per day better get an attitude adjustment otherwise they can just starve.

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      The Frog Princeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If Obama has his way we're heading into the same situation.

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         ElSeductorposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         The Frog Prince,
         
         What universe do you live in?  I think you meant to say Romney.
         
         R

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         Sooner28posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         The Republican party would eliminate the minimum wage if it could.  I must agree with El, what universe do you live in?

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      JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Actually, that's not what she said.
      
      Misleading news titles for the lose.

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         Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Really?
         
         "‘The evidence is unarguable, Australia is indeed becoming too expensive and too uncompetitive to do export-oriented business,’ she said.
         
         ‘Furthermore, Africans want to work, and its workers are willing to work for less than $2 per day. Such statistics make me worry for this country's future.’
         
         So let me get this straight. This woman wants Australians to be able to compete with workers in Africa where they earn $2 a day. That would suggest, very clearly, that she thinks that they should work for $2 per day or less.
         
         It also suggests that she has no problem with people in Australia not living in a modern way. She's okay with them going back to living in caves, hunting wild animals (which you can still do in Africa) to subsidize what one earns, and, also, having chickens and other animals in one's back yard.
         
         Of course, if one is earning $2 per day, then one cannot afford sewerage and all sorts of other stuff. But this stupid, ignorant woman, a perfect example of the uber rich who inherited their money (no, most of them didn't work for it) thinks it's perfectly okay to live on $2 per day in Australia. After all, the Africans are doing it in Africa, so why wouldn't the Australians manage in australia?
         
         Dumb. Ignorant. And coming to your job soon.

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            EmpressFelicityposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I read the article you linked to and to be fair, nowhere did she actually say "I think Australians should work for $2 per day." Let alone that other stuff about living in caves and keeping chickens - that was your invention entirely. She was pointing out an economic truth: whenever you're producing goods for a world market you will (nearly) always be competing against other countries who can produce the same goods more cheaply than you can, either because they pay their workers a lot less, or they receive government subsidies.

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               Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Empress Facility. Maybe you'd like to invest in some deductive reasoning.
               
               Of course, she didn't say that. She implied that.
               
               And I took her implication and deduced what would happen if people in Australia were to live on $2 per day? Have you ever lived in Africa? I have. Spent 47 years of my life there. Ever been to Australia? They have a very high standard of living. $2 might buy you half a cup of coffee.

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                  EmpressFelicityposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Maybe you'd like to spell my name right. It's "Felicity", not "Facility". (For some reason, Empress Facility makes me think of an extra luxurious suite of public toilets.)
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  Well, she *might* have been implying that. But we're not mind readers, so we don't know for sure without asking her. What she definitely said was that Australians were pricing themselves out of the world market.
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  I realise that it's impossible to live on $2 a day in any Western country.
                  
                  When you posted this thread, what was your intention? Was it simply a roundabout way of saying "Eat the rich"? Or are you actually posing some questions about global economics/trade? (If so, what? I'm not trolling - I am genuinely curious.)

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                     Sooner28posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     You do understand how logic works right?  If I make the claim. "All killing of human beings is wrong," you could rightfully charge me with being against self-defense if it meant killing another human being.  It necessarily follows from the statement All killing of human beings is wrong.
                     
                     Like the quote from Sophia said, too expensive and uncompetititve.  Furthermore:
                     
                     "Africans want to work, and its workers are willing to work for less than $2 per day," she said in the video. "Such statistics make me worry for this country's future.
                     
                     "We are becoming a high-cost and high-risk nation for investment."
                     
                     She is claiming that if I can find people who will work for two dollars a day, and they are much cheaper than Australians, then the only rational decision is to employ the people who work for two dollars a day.  How can Australians possibly remedy this "horrific" situation?  BY WORKING FOR LESS.  That's the only way. 
                     
                     I'm tired of conservatives, when confronted with statements like this, not owning up to how immoral it is.  I know it ruins the fantasy that the boss values you as a human being, but reality is harsh.

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                        Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Obviously, these explanations go nowhere... Some people cannot read between the lines...

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               Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               ....however, she was pointing that out because she wants the government's permission to import large numbers of workers from Asia for her new mine, and pay them considerably less than an Australian would be entitled to. 
               
               She's also in the process of trying to buy out a major independent national newspaper so she can control what is published about her and the mining industry.

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                  EmpressFelicityposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  
                  
                  Ah, that does clarify things!

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                     Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     She's a rather sad woman, Felicity.  She completely idolised her father - who made all the money - and she sees it as her sacred mission in life to preserve and build the company he created.  She has actually said that the company comes before everything - and that includes her own children.   She's currently in court to stop her children getting hold of a penny of their inheritance, because that would mean drawing some money out of said company.  She also spent millions trying to stop her father's wife inheriting anything - to the point where she paid witnesses to lie.  Embarrassingly for her, that got found out and the trial disintegrated.
                     
                     I feel sorry for her because she must be very isolated, her father is dead and all but one of her children estranged.  Unfortunately she's also extremely powerful because she's the richest woman in Australia.

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                  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  She sounds like the female version of Rupert Murdoch!

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            ElSeductorposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Sophia,
            
            Most Republicans share this mindset. You can read about it here:
            
            http://elseductor.hubpages.com/hub/The- … epublicans
            
            R

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      HowardBThinameposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      The idea that this woman's ideas are somehow "in control" of others is ludicrous.
      
      A person is not limited to 'starving' if they refuse to work for $2 a day. They can find other jobs or create their own businesses.
      
      This woman was drawing a comparison - and while she could have done it better - it was only to illustrate her point that Australian wages are currently too high to maintain without some sort of economic backlash.
      
      The best advice to anyone to keep them from getting caught in a low-wage trap is to encourage them to think for themselves and take responsibility for their lot in life. Anything else is like putting a band-aid on a severed limb.
      
      The woman, in her roundabout way, makes a viable point. When people price themselves out of the market - the economy collapses. That's exactly what happened here in the US housing industry. Overpricing and over-valuation created a bubble that could not be sustained. We all know the result of that mistake.

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         gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Howard, you know that, I know that, and many more astute and savvy people know this.  In other words, WE make OUR destiny and mature adults should know this and stop the excuses game.

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         Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         HowardBThiname,
         
         "The best advice to anyone to keep them from getting caught in a low-wage trap is to encourage them to think for themselves and take responsibility for their lot in life. Anything else is like putting a band-aid on a severed limb."
         
         
         Um. It's nice to live in your world. I once believed that as well.

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            HowardBThinameposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            So, would you rather give up your freedom to control your own life - in favor of letting others control it, Sophia?
            
            The Aussie woman didn't advocate hiring workers for $2 a day. She explained that Australian wages are already more than 30-percent higher than those in the US and as a result, the Aussies can't compete in the world market.
            
            The $2 a day was an example of what the Africans were willing to work for and why businesses were starting to outsource. Here in the US, we're all upset because we were just downgraded to 7 in world competitiveness. Australia was downgraded to 20!  Add that to their already weak economy and something is going to break.

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               gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               +1!

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               Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               HowardBThiname
               
               I think you're asking the wrong question. I think that there is a wide gap between giving up the freedom to control one's own life and the choice of earning between $2 per day.
               
               http://capitalismandyou.blogspot.com/20 … -mega.html
               
               Hypothetically, if there are only jobs that are paying $2 per day and that's all the choice one has, how is there any choice?
               
               What you seem to be missing is where this is all leading to.
               
               Are you aware that half of Americans are living in poverty and that this country is rapidly becoming a third world country? Are you aware that America no longer has claim to having the best constitution in the world? Are you aware that America lags behind in virtually everything that is of worth and the only way it leads is in the things that are the worst in the world?
               
               You need to look at exactly how much choice there is in this country.
               
               Very, very little.

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                  HowardBThinameposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Sophia, the woman did not advocate paying anyone $2 per day.
                  
                  That's where the misunderstanding comes in.
                  
                  The Aussies already earn more than 30-percent more than Americans for the same jobs.
                  
                  The woman was talking mostly about not adding an additional tax burden on exporting businesses to keep from pushing those businesses out of the country. She wanted to preserve the wages - not reduce them.
                  
                  America's not becoming a third world country and this woman is not located in America. We still have the best constitution in the world, we just need legislators that respect it. We don't "lag behind" in virtually everything of worth - but we could sure stand to improve in some areas.
                  
                  We still have lots and lots of choice in this country - but I fail to see how that has anything to do with an Australian woman.

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                     Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Here are her exact words, "‘The evidence is unarguable, Australia is indeed becoming too expensive and too uncompetitive to do export-oriented business,’ she said.
                     ‘Furthermore, Africans want to work, and its workers are willing to work for less than $2 per day. Such statistics make me worry for this country's future.’
                     
                     In other words, she would be more likely to give work to Africans who are willing to work for $2 per day than to Australians who want a lot, lot more than that. The deduction from that is that unless Australians were willing to work for the same rate, they weren't competitive enough for her (and others like her) to employ them.
                     
                     Am I the only one to deduce that she was getting at that? Not at all!
                     
                     The Australian Prime Minister responded with, "‘It's not the Australian way to toss people $2, to toss them a gold coin, and then ask them to work for a day. ‘We support proper Australian wages and decent working conditions.’
                     
                     For the rest, believe what you will. I'm the one that has lived and worked internationally since 1970. You'll find out soon enough.

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                        rhamsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        This has been my argument for many years and it speaks volumes about the shortsightedness of the American psyche as far as buying form companies that outsource to other countries with a lesser standard of living than we have in the US. Democracy and free enterprise works very well with slave labor.
                        
                        The next time you go to Walmart or Home Depot or Target you absolutely support this economic drain from the country that the rich are too busy fleecing us to care. They don't have to worry about paying more as we are buying up their product to drive down their costs in throwing more jobs and lower costs overseas. The cycle will be complete when we are making that $2.00 per hour like the worker in China or India.
                        
                        The nimrods that keep shoving this free trade marketing at us don't care for the long haul as they will have gotten what they need and screw the rest.

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                           Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           No, they don't care for the long haul, because they'll have billions and we'll be starving. What amazes me is how brain dead many seem to be in working out cause an effect!

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                              rhamsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              And they wonder why I drink! This country has been on a one way train to poverty for quite a few years now. The greed of the rich and the masses playing along hoping one day to be in their place is astounding.The game is rigged and they don't even know it. I too have lived overseas and have seen the country from the outside in and it is not a pretty sight.
                              
                              Until people understand that the fate of the country is in the hands of big business and the banks we are doomed. Money is the culprit and money is the prize. Until we take the money out of the decision making in this country we are all going to pay the price.

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            Barbara Kayposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            We have seen something like this in the US already. Factory jobs that once paid $12 and up per hour now want to pay $8 and $9 an hour and a few even less. At least it is going on around here.
            
            I disagree about starting your own business. There are people in this country that don't have the money to invest in their own business. Everyone can't start their own business.

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         John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         But why does that not happen when CEOs and the like price themselves out of the market?
         Oh sorry, they need the money and therefore the market will stand it.

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            Sooner28posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Funny isn't it?  Oh, if we tax them too much we will "disincentivize" them.  Yet, it's perfectly acceptable for African factory workers (to stick with the example used) to be paid 2 dollars a day.  That adds up to 14 dollars a week, 56 dollars a month, and 672 dollars a year! 
            
            This is madness.

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               John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, it's a common misconception that to motivate people you give the rich more money but the poor less!

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                  Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Of course, the people who believe this can't work out that it's a lie.
                  
                  I've spent the last 24 hours trying to figure out why some take statements from the rich and powerful as truth.
                  
                  Here's the conclusion I arrive at.
                  
                  People who can only see in shades of black and white have to fit whatever they hear into one of those two dogmas. They don't have the capacity to see other possibilities an probabilities. This makes it very difficult for those of us who can see beyond black an white.

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                     John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Sophia, it matters not a fig whether they believe it or not.
                     What does matter is whether or not the lower paid believe it  and unless these forums are infested with bored billionaires there are too many who do believe it, who see their role as supporting their "betters".

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                        Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Well, the reason they support them is because they believe them. Not so?
                        
                        What am I missing?
                        
                        Why would anybody support something that they don't believe in?

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                           John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Sorry, got my wires crossed and thought you were referring to the lot that needed more money to motivate them, they don't have to believe!

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      rhamsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It is funny that free market based economies with above average standards of living seem to resort to slave labor to support their upper class. All the while cutting off the money necessary for the middle class people to earn enough to afford the cheaper goods they are offered. Our democracy needs slave labor to be a part of the success of our free market system. Just think about this the next time you go to Walmart or Home Depot. I know that Home Depot sells at a 80% margin while most established smaller business operate at a 35% to 45% margin.
      
      These modern economics ignore this glaring shortfall and insist this is the only avenue we must take to stay competetive in the global trade wars. It is cutting off your nose despite your own face if you really take a look at it. Perhaps the rich think if they can force this philosophy down our throats we may not catch on in time and the wealthy will own everything.
      
      Look at the banks who bet heavily on defaults and then got the bailouts and the repossessed property in the process. The real beauty of it is they did it without going to jail.

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      Credence2posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      This Sophia, is the linchpin of reichwing economic ideology, eliminate the minimum wage and turn employees into slaves without any protection AND it is nothing short of slavery. The GOP and its plutocrat base knows that. So do the inane rightwing posters to this same thread

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         Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Actually, I don't think the right wing posters on this thread do know that. I think they have been indoctrinate to such an extent that they cannot work out the consequences of what they are hearing. They just take what they are hearing as the 'gospel truth.'

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      Sooner28posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I posted a forum about this also.  It's an honest statement!  There is outrage because she accurately summarized the corporate mindset.

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   paradigmsearchposted 11 years ago

   I miss my good old days where I was paid $60/hour to mess with computer code all day.

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   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   The worlds richest woman got there by mining the outback. 
   
   Good luck outsourcing that.

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   rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago

   She sounds like another ultra wealthy business owner who is out of touch with real people.  They're in every country around the world.. 'import or outsource cheap foreign labor to avoid paying taxes and proclaim that millionaires and billionaires are greatest for social good'..

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   Claims-Adviceposted 11 years ago

   I think if this was to become commonplace, it would be too much and push the masses over the edge. Pretty shocking nonetheless!

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      Claims-Adviceposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Also, there does seem to be something of an extrapolation on your part, as much as I understand where you're coming from.

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   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   The funny thing is that Australia *does* compete on the world market, by building industries based on skill, not slave wages.

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      Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely, and they have a fantastic lifestyle - for everybody!

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