Tom Cruise ready to cut links with Scientology to win back Katie Holme

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   Stacie Lposted 11 years ago

   Tom Cruise ready to cut links with Scientology to win back Katie Holmes .
   Apparently Scientology has lost him another wife and maybe being in a "leadership" role has lost its' appeal. Anyone have experience with Scientology? Losing a high profile member will cost this cult or religion many members and money for sure.
   http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-n … ks-1378583

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   1. 71

      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I've had lots of experience with Scientology (1959-1986).
      
      Tom Cruise, like a lot of people with influence and riches has a bit too much ego. People who join a religion for celebrity miss the whole point of it all, and likely are only chasing their own ego.
      
      And Scientology has its power struggles just like every other religion with human members.
      
      I've had my most spiritual experiences while a member of Scientology, but I came to realize that they were not addressing ego fully enough. Perhaps because they were feeding ego too much. But that does not detract from the benefits gained.
      
      I hate to see any family break up, even a couch-jumping Tom Cruise and his ex. But what used to be a pretty cool spirituality has descended into something resembling the tyranny that's overtaking the United States and the rest of the world, today. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the same people responsible for shredding the Constitution had agents infiltrate Scientology to cripple it. Increased awareness is too much of a threat to those who operate in the shadows of lies.

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   SmartAndFunposted 11 years ago

   At its best, scientology is a ridiculous organization. L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, taught that "Xenu," the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" brought billions of his people to Earth (then known as "Teegeeack") 75 million years ago in a DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and killed them using hydrogen bombs. Official Scientology scriptures hold that the essences of these many people remained, and that they form around people in modern times, causing them spiritual harm. LOL!!!!
   
   At its worst, scientology is not so laughable. Higher-ups within this dangerous scam have destroyed many families, forced women to get abortions, forced young kids to move away from their parents and work 18-hour days 7 days a week, imprisoned those who commit minor infractions in "The Hole," brainwashed and bankrupted many, run dangerous -- sometimes deadly -- so-called drug rehab clinics that treat addicts with niacin shots and hours upon hours in a sauna (with no medical doctors present). Google "Narconon deaths" or go to www.exscientologykids.com and what you find will make your stomach turn.
   
   I would love to see TC (or anyone) leave scientology, but I believe TC is is complete narcissist who craves and thrives on the god-like status scientology awards him, and the adoration that scientologists have for him. He and other celebrity scientologists are treated much differently than the average scientology slave. They are lied to about what really goes on (or blackmailed) so that they will speak publicly about how great it is, which brings in recruits. As far as him leaving scientology, I will believe it when I see it, and even then it may be a lie constructed to help his box-office popularity.

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      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Have you had much actual experience in Scientology? Or do you base your opinions on stuff you've read online?

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         SmartAndFunposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I get my information by conversing with people who have been fortunate enough to leave the cult, from TV news interviews of people who are in it or who have left it, from Tony Ortega's articles in the Village Voice, and yes I do get some info from the internet, such as from people who post their heartbreaking stories on blogs and message boards, and from articles written by ex-scientologists who are attempting to expose the money-grubbing scam and general ugliness of this non-religion.
         
         I am not a scientologist and never have been, but I do have experience with the cult and got to know a rather large group of scientologists many years ago. I drew my own conculsions based on what I saw and what these people told me. I couldn't believe the stuff they were telling me was supposed to be a positive spin. I did not like what I saw back then and got involved in trying to spread the word about scientology's illegal and unethical cult practices. Back then, without the internet, spreading the word was difficult. Also, the scientology machine was bullying and intimidating the media, so that journalists were afraid to do much exposing. Luckily, that is all changing now. Also, Tom Cruise is doing a good job of showing the world just how cray-cray scientology is.

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            lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Yep, I've heard some horror stories of my own, and even experienced a few.
            
            But it's sad when you only hear the negative and none of the positive. Does Scientology have any redeeming features now? I have no idea.
            
            But when I was in Scientology, it was very much a religion. Only toward the end of my stint (59-86) did the craziness become too much for me. I only hope that the best of what Scientology used to be was saved by some of the splinter groups -- people who were into it for the increased awareness and spirituality.
            
            It's funny, but also sad how the Corporate Party news media can spin things a certain way to demonize anything they want to have crushed. I have to admit that Scientology gave them lots of fodder for that purpose, but any of the good is forgotten -- buried under the intense focus on the bad.
            
            I remember living in Los Angeles and relatives suddenly started calling me in a panic, wondering if I was okay. 100% of the news they saw about Los Angeles was about the less than 0.001% of Los Angeles that was suffering mud slides. Was I safe to live there? Was I still alive?
            
            And these days, the news makes it seem that anyone who asks questions about 9/11 or who brings up facts that contradict the "official story" are automatically "conspiracy theorists." Even though the questions and facts may have nothing to do with conspiracies or theories.
            
            And these days, the Corporate Party news media demonizes people who believe in the Constitution and marginalizes politicians who would actually keep their Oath of Office. During the GOP primaries, Ron Paul was overlooked or ridiculed more times than I can count, yet he is perhaps the most honest and honorable person in politics. Just as a small example of hundreds -- Ron Paul was running 2nd in one state, but the news media wouldn't even mention his name. They talked about #1, #3 and #4, but completely avoided mentioning the #2 slot.
            
            And now, when it's inconvenient to the Corporate Party, they don't talk about the tyranny that's creeping over our once beloved America. The 2 recent presidential conventions prove that democracy is dead and in its place is a scripted sham.
            
            RNC Scripted:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKaXqoC4DjE
            
            DNC Scripted:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmaE2Aez_XY
            
            What does this have to do with Scientology? Perhaps nothing. But I can't help but wonder if the troubles in Scientology are partly from a few bad things blown out of proportion.
            
            But also, I wonder if Scientology, like our precious American government, has not been infiltrated by some people who would like very much not to have a fully-functional religion that actually makes people more aware. For evil thrives in darkness.
            
            What better way to ruin Scientology and America than by suborning them from within. Like Cicero said, the enemy at the gate is far less a threat than the one within who looks and talks like us.

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               A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Most likely, you were fervent about Scientology then as you are about your new found religion now and will stand and fight for your new religion just like you did when in Scientology.
               
               Religions are about what people want to believe as opposed to what their religions want them to believe.
               
               The hypocrisy and ego are overwhelming.

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                  lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  @ATM, you might be a lovable guy on some subjects, but your trash mouth can get a bit annoying.
                  
                  Your active imagination seems to dwell on the negative. That in itself is a source of darkness and evil. Pity. An otherwise intelligent mind going to waste.
                  
                  Stand and fight? You are cracked. Delusion is making stuff up that doesn't match reality. Now, I can only guess why you would purposefully make things up that are not true. But all of my guesses lead to dark pictures, indeed.
                  
                  A long time ago I learned a truism about "persisting conflict" that has been proven to me time and time again. Behind every conflict that persists, there is an undisclosed third party stirring up that conflict.
                  
                  I've seen evidence that suggests that the American Civil War was whipped into shape by agents of the Rothschild bank who were still angry over Andrew Jackson closing the 2nd US Rothschild Central Bank. They thought that the North and South would become so weakened that the British Rothschilds could take over the North by their troops stationed in Canada, and the French Rothschilds could take over the South by their Maximilian troops stationed in Mexico. That didn't work out, but their patience and persistence gave them the much desired Central bank in 1913, when the private Federal Reserve was finally created and the IRS to go along with it.
                  
                  Today, the Corporate Party news media in America has whipped that third party law into a science of precision. Fact and probing questions have now been re-defined as "conspiracy theory." Those who love the Constitution of the United States are "crackpots" and potential "terrorists."
                  
                  @ATM, you fit right in with that crowd, spreading lies and twisting fact to suit your own needs.
                  
                  And the "third party law?" I discovered that gem in Scientology, along with a whole lot more.
                  
                  Truth doesn't need defending, not even against the likes of you.
                  
                  If you want to point out hypocrisy and ego, you only need look in the mirror.
                  
                  Me? I'm working on getting rid of my ego. And as far as hypocrisy, I'm happy to change when I find something that doesn't work or when I find truth that makes old ideas obsolete. But you wouldn't know that; you're too busy making up your own "reality."

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                     A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes, I understand the need for personal insults from believers when they're favorite ideologies are criticized. However, in this case, we are talking about moving from one favorite ideology to another, with hypocrisy being the primary result.
                     
                     
                     
                     Yes, I also understand you are commanded to consider me dark and evil. Would that have also been your consideration when you were a scientologist? Is that what the Thetans would have taught you?
                     
                     
                     
                     You mean making up stuff like boulevards of gridlocked traffic being swept away by Jesus just so YOU alone could navigate your destination, that kind of delusion not matching reality?
                     
                     
                     
                     Why do you make up stuff like that purposefully? Ego?
                     
                     
                     
                     In one case it was scientology, now it's Jesus. stirring up conflict.
                     
                     
                     
                     So, you're a conspiracy theorist, too? Making up more stuff that doesn't fit reality?
                     
                     
                     
                     You are as free to spread that fabrication just like you spread fabrications about your gridlocked traffic problems. By all means, point out my lies and twisted facts, so far, you have failed to do any of that.
                     
                     
                     
                     You mean the truth in which you'd have defended which was Scientology and now that truth is Jesus. Funny what you believers consider truth that doesn't fit reality no matter how many alleged truths you deem worthy.
                     
                     
                     
                     Your hypocrisy and ego are overwhelmingly ample to point out, but feel free to point them out at your leisure. I welcome it.
                     
                     
                     
                     That certainly isn't evident here, especially when I hear that whopper of a gridlocked traffic tale that just gets more blown out of proportion each time you tell it.
                     
                     
                     
                     So, which new "truth" will you change to next and fight with the fervor of the past truths? Islam?
                     
                     Yes, that was my point earlier in that the reason believers change their "truths" is because they want to find religions that fit form to their personal wants as opposed to what the religion wants from them. Yours appears to be one of those text book cases of massive ego ruling the choices.
                     
                     
                     
                     You mean, the reality we all share, the one without Jesus parting gridlocked traffic?

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                        lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        

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   pisean282311posted 11 years ago

   how can he do that...scientology is only correct religion in the world..

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      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well, @pisean282311, I don't understand your poor grammar. First of all, who do you mean by "he?"
      
      Scientology the only correct religion in the world? Are you now a shill for Scientology? That religion has many problems, especially in its leadership. I wouldn't exactly call it the only correct religion. Far from it.
      
      Or were you being clumsily facetious?

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         pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         by "he" i was addressing tom cruise ...chill u got it right i was being clumsily facetious....what never makes sense to me if when one faith believer accuse/allege/judge other faith believers...in end all religions have myths,illogical stories and are simple fairy tales...

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            lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks, @pisean282311, for the clarification.
            
            I agree with your statement about "accuse/allege/judge." That's ego and counter to the purpose of most world religions.
            
            Wouldn't it be wonderful if things were as simple as your last statement: "...all religions... are simple fairy tales?" The scientist part of me loves that kind of simplicity, but life and religion aren't that simple.
            
            I've seen miracles -- not the "ordinary" or "accidental" kind -- but full-blow, cause-and-effect coincidence. Scientists are always looking for cause-and-effect coincidence, but science will never be able to explain miracles, including the ones I've experienced. Why? Because science deals only with the products of creation -- the realm of continuity and physical commensurability -- cause-and-effect only within the physical construct of the shared reality. Creation exists outside of continuity -- in a discontinuous realm. In fact, something is not created until it gains continuity (persistence, aka "time").
            
            You assume that, because some religion uses myth, and because you cannot understand the logic of their stories, all religions are fairy tales. I submit that your lack of effort (and/or intelligence) is the cause of your inability to see the logic of some religious stories.
            
            Take the story of Asett (Isis), Sett (Seth), Heru (Horus) and Auser (Osiris) from Egyptian myth. One story in that body of work caught my attention and a little imagination solved the apparent illogical nature of it. I say "apparent" because once the truth of something is known the problem of "illogicality" disappears. The story involved Heru cutting off his mother's (Asett's) head and hiding it from her. Later, the sun god, Ra, helped restore her head to her and she was made even stronger than before. Taking the story as literal makes it sound pretty crazy. But if you look at the players as symbols for something else, it starts to make sense. Asett was a group, and the Heru group merely kidnapped the head (leader) of the Asett group and sequestered her from her body (the troops over whom she had dominion).
            
            A similar problem in Genesis (Bible) is solved with a similar solution. The seemingly outrageous ages of the early patriarchs are solved by looking at those patriarchs as tribes (groups) instead of individuals. They were likely named after the eponymous founders. Genesis 5:2 is the clue to this -- where Adam is listed as both male and female and plural ("them").
            
            @pisean282311, if you think you are your Homo sapiens body, then you're missing out on a more potent part of reality. And that would be your delusion.

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               pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               @lonestar there are two different aspects ...one is experiencing something which cannot be explained and another is giving meaning to those experience....latter is done by religion....all faiths be it be oldest to youngest have similar experience in what they call spiritual domain....deities change,books change for some it is jesus ,for some it is krishna , for some it is muhammad (we had someone on hubpages who claimed she actually saw muhammad and life changed for her after that).....what we can savely conclude from that is those experiences are something which we need to work at in our research ...dieties,books and religions are not that important...they keep coming and going....experience is universal and not exclusive to singular faith...bible or veda or quran ...non are exclusive....

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                  lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  @pisean282311, beautifully put. The names we give things are symbols and not the "things" themselves.
                  
                  I disagree that the deities change; perhaps merely the names. And, if I understand things, there is only one "creator of the universe" who likely does not have a name in the human sense. Just as graven images are forbidden in the Judeo-Christian ethic, any name given to the creator is likely imperfect and inaccurate and thus a distraction from the truth behind it all.
                  
                  Some deities in one religion may merely be angels of heaven in another.
                  
                  And in some religions, the deities may merely be inflated historical figures made mythical by misinterpretation and the distance of great time -- like the Greek, Etruscan and Egyptian pantheons. Athena, Minerva and Asett (Isis) may have been the same group of matriarchal refugees from Atlantis who wanted to rebuild the civilization they had lost; while Sett (Seth) was the patriarchal refugees who wanted merely to take what belonged to others as a selfish quick fix.

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                     pisean282311posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     @lone we still dont know what causes such experiences and does it has anything to do with god.....what we do conclusively know that irrespective of faith and religion and book , human beings have similar experiences...is it product of brain?...is it product of something else?...it is still inconclusive...so we must research of those aspects ...thats my view point on this...

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                        lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        I understand.
                        
                        I have been researching this area for 62 years (this lifetime, at least). I have my own viewpoints on it, and using scientific reasoning, I have determined by experimentation that we are indeed inherently spiritual in nature. I happen to know what causes some of the miraculous experiences, but I still don't have all of the answers.
                        
                        I have solved a few of the enigmas in Genesis, in my research. For instance, the outrageous longevity of the early patriarchs. I have also found that some of the discoveries I've made in "the field" were already documented (in code) in Genesis.
                        
                        Walking on water is no accident, but one atheist had the great humor (?) to suggest that all miracles are accidents of being in the right place at the right time to witness something that, by chance, will eventually happen anyway. I hope you can see how ludicrous that sounds.
                        
                        For instance, it would prove to be a scientific impossibility for a 1 meter volume of space on the surface of Earth to be suddenly devoid of air without some force or instrumentality involved to cause that evacuation of space. No amount of random accident would result in such an effect. Just as random clacking on typewriters by monkeys would never result in Shakespeare's Sonnet 116. But I have seen such a contravention of physical law -- in L.A. rush hour traffic -- 2 miles of empty lane with two walls of snarling traffic on either side suddenly unable to enter that empty void for four long minutes. All because I asked in a state of spiritual grace.
                        
                        I have experienced many miracles -- extraordinary, non-accidental, cause-and-effect coincidences -- many of them as a result of benefits gained from Scientology.
                        
                        Religion on planet Earth is, for the most part, a rescue mission. God ("Source" or "the Force") want's "His" children back. His children have come to be deluded into thinking that they are Homo sapiens and mortal ego. They have become trapped in this world and in this reality.
                        
                        And that's my current viewpoint on this.

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   ocbillposted 11 years ago

   religions seem to cause more conflict than harmony. This may be a reason for the growing non-believers. If you just do what is morally right as a human being everything else should take care of itself.

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      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @ocbill, I agree. Religions "seem" to cause more conflict than harmony. But behind the apparent cause is a far more true cause. The same true cause is behind the apparent causes of conflict behind money, love, possessions, and others. That true cause is ego (the heart of selfishness).
      
      And ego is the very thing many of the great world religions is hoping to eradicate. Sadly, most of their members have never figured this out.

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   SmartAndFunposted 11 years ago

   The hypocrisy and ego in scientology are especially overwhelming. Google around a bit and you will become aghast and enraged. Try 'narconon deaths" or "david miscavige abuse" for starters.
   
   @Lonestar, as far as the media blowing the negative out of proportion, I see that happening every day. The news here often broadcasts live coverage of our plain vanilla rain storms as if they were hurricanes or major blizzards. However, when it comes to reckless loss of life, slave labor and the purposeful ruining of families, there is no such thing as "blowing it out of proportion." In fact, these tragic incidences have been underreported. The grief one experiences from losing a loved one and the emptiness from no longer having a friend or family member in one's life can never be "overblown."

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      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @SmartAndFun, I agree wholeheartedly. Has Scientology been trashed by evil? From the things I've heard, it sure sounds like it. A pity. There was once something quite good about it. Just as there was something quite good about the religion known as Christianity. In this time of freedom and openness, we might be able to rediscover the good and eradicate the bad.

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      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      @SmartAndFun, airplanes drop bombs. Does that make all airplanes bad?
      
      Some serial killers were American. Does that make all Americans bad?

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   SmartAndFunposted 11 years ago

   IMHO all mind-control cults are bad.

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      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      And you missed the point! America has its MK Ultra, so that makes America bad? Come on! You're generalizing inappropriately.

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         SmartAndFunposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I'm just saying something different than what you're saying. Per your examples, I'm not talking about airplanes, I'm just saying the bombs are bad. I'm not referencing Americans, but I am saying serial killers are bad. In the America/MK Ultra example, I'm saying MK Ultra was bad. I'm also saying that in my humble opinion, all mind-control cults are bad.
         
         Please share your examples of good mind-control cults.

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            lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Ah, but you still miss my point. If Scientology is only a mind-control cult, now, it wasn't always that way. And that's a big "if."
            
            I've been out of Scientology for 25 years, so I don't know what it's like now. But labels are generally inaccurate, especially where groups are concerned. You're against mind-control. So am I. You say "mind-control cult," and there's the problem. You're labeling the entire religion as "mind-control." You removed America from "MK Ultra America." You removed airplanes from "bomber airplanes." So why not remove cult from "mind-control cult?" If (big if) Scientology includes mind control, would removing mind control make Scientology empty? Not by a long shot! Just like removing MK Ultra from America doesn't make America meaningless. Now, do you understand?
            
            If you have personal experience with every aspect of Scientology and know that every one of those aspects is thoroughly involved in "mind-control," then I think you'd be accurate in saying that Scientology is a mind-control cult. I'd have no problem with that. But you don't have that experience and you cannot make that call. Get rid of mind control? I'm all for it.
            
            But the point you keep missing is that there have been many good things in Scientology. Just as there were many good things in Germany 80 years ago. Remove Hitler and Naziism and you'd still have a Germany.
            
            When I was involved in Scientology, there were a few coercive methods, but I wouldn't call them mind-control, any more than the judicial system of America is mind-control. Some of the people in jail might disagree, but I think that would be their ego speaking. No one likes being wrong.
            
            Personally, I think America has become a largely mind-control culture. The Rothschilds and Rockefellers have done a bang-up job of creating a Corporate Party media that manipulates America into thinking it's still free to chose. Nothing could be further from the truth. And, if they get their way, the Internet will soon be censored. And they've been trying so hard to make that happen -- SOPA, PIPA, CISPA, TPP and other draconian legislation.
            
            I'm astounded how so many people still think Obama is the best. Or how so many Obama haters think Romney is the solution. It sickens me that I used to be part of that mindless crowd of sheeple. Now, that's mind control.
            
            When the majority of people in America can be tricked into thinking that 9/11 was an Osama Bin Laden operation, instead of a Corporate-government inside job, that's real mind control. When the Power Elite control the media and use it with repetition of the same lies over and over again, people believe, just as Goebbels (Hitler's propaganda minister) said they would.
            
            But Osama Bin Laden said he had nothing to do with 9/11. And the real Bin Laden might well have died a few months after that event. The later pictures of the so-called Bin Laden looked far younger and with a flatter, broader nose. I guess they couldn't get a better look-alike. And yet, people still believe that junk.
            
            9/11 is a great example of true mind control. Most people never heard of the 3rd building to collapse in New York -- WTC7. It wasn't hit by a plane, but for several seconds it was in perfect free fall. All support columns had to have been severed in unison (within milliseconds of each other). That's controlled demolition, not the lame story of collapse by office fires that the official story tries to pawn off on us.
            
            Most people don't know that the 9/11 concrete dust contained unspent nano-thermite (a high-tech incendiary used in cutting steel beams). The dust also included between 0.2% and 5.87% iron microspheres -- a byproduct of thermitic reactions in controlled demolition. This indicates that several tons of thermitic materials were used in the demolition of all 3 buildings. And, since it takes weeks or months to prepare such buildings, and since all 3 buildings were highly secure, this means that 9/11 was an inside job. Who? We don't know, yet, and that's why a new, unbiased investigation needs to be conducted.
            
            Some people have been lulled into thinking that anyone who questions the official conspiracy theory is a crackpot. That's mind control. Some people have been tricked into thinking that Facts that disprove the official story are somehow "conspiracy theory!" That's mind control. We are living in that Orwellian world of double-speak, where words are given new meanings to manipulate the masses. The Corporate Party media has been doing it for years. And they're getting better and better at it.
            
            Just as people have been taught to think that Scientology is a dangerous cult and that Michael Jackson was a pedophile. That's mind control. Has Scientology done some bad things? Of course! I know of a few, myself. I've known people who were personally involved. Was it entirely unjustified? I'm not so sure. When the Rothschilds and Rockefellers use murder to enslave humanity, Scientology's abuses against that machine look pretty tame.

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   donotfearposted 11 years ago

   " Now you all know what the one true religion is, now don't you......?"
   
   
   

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      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Ah, the Church Lady. One of my favorites!

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   tussinposted 11 years ago

   Lonestar, I started reading Scientology's sacred text "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health" to satisfy my own curiosity.  I don't know much about the cult aspects of CoS and their exploitative practices apart from what I've seen in the media, but just from reading Dianetics I think the religion/system of Scientology is a scam.
   
   There's nothing scientific in Hubbard's Dianetics.  It consists only of assertions that are not explained and are not backed up with any evidence.  Take the most fundamental of these: engrams.
   
   First of all, what precisely is an engram? What is their number? How do they get into our bodies or brains? Do they have an infinite or finite capacity for retaining memories of pain? How did Hubbard discover engrams and their various characteristics? This is not explained in Dianetics.
   
   Why do they impart a survival advantage to species that do not have language, but pose a hindrance to survival in species that do have language, e.g., humans? What is it about having language that makes having engrams bad for you? This is not explained in Dianetics.
   
   How does removal of engrams improve vision?  Real science has already established that conditions such as myopia and farsightedness are caused by deformations in the shape of the eye and its various parts, then does the removal of engrams change the physical shape of the eye? Where are the published studies that show following Dianetics will improve your eyesight? This is not explained in Dianetics.
   
   These are basic questions that Dianetics should address if it is actually a science.

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