The hunt for Edward Snowden!
Touché. I see that you have now decided to target me personally over your dissatifaction with the US government. When accusing me, the very least you could do is to include a link to my statements.
As for your question: “What’s their logic?” I can only answer for myself. My logic, like many of my opinions, are based upon facts and facts, you have shown us, are not very important when you accuse the government of wrongdoing. Rather than defending the government, I find myself just correcting posts containing errors, distortions, and falsehoods.
When discussing whistleblowers, two factual distinctions need to be established. The law protects one type of whistleblower, who exposes important conditions and/or situations in both industry and government, from discrimination and retaliation. On the other hand, the law requires another type of whistleblower, one who breaks the law in the process, to face criminal charges regardless of the motive.
Ellsberg surrendered to the US Attorney’s office in Boston in 1971 and issued a statement acknowledging his guilt and his willingness to take full legal responsibility for his actions. He said at the time “I did this clearly at my own jeopardy and I am prepared to answer to all the consequences of this decision” {1} He was tried in 1973. No verdict was reached because all charges were dismissed on technical grounds that included misconduct by the government. The judge ruled “The totality of the circumstances of this case which I have only briefly sketched offend a sense of justice. The bizarre events have incurably infected the prosecution of this case.” {2}
Like Ellsberg in 1971, Edward Snowden is a whistleblower that has been charged with crimes. His guilt or innocence, along with the validity of his motives, should be determined by due process of the law. While he also admits to his guilt, instead of defending his actions in court, in the same way that Ellsberg did 40 years ago, he fled to Hong Kong. This is a distinctive difference between the two cases.
I have never posted a comment about Mr. Snowden before today nor have I ever said I considered Mr. Ellsberg or Mr. Snowden to be a traitor. However, I am forced to deal with two posts that falsely claim that I have.
Maxa44oxam wrote:
“Plenty of people on this platform are considering him as a traitor (quilligrapher for instance).” {3}
Maxa44oxam wrote:
“People like Quilligrapher on our platform sees him as a traitor.” {4}
Fact: Before today, I have never made any statement, not one, not here, not anywhere else, about Mr. Snowden or his case.
Fact: I have never said that I consider Mr. Ellsberg to be a traitor. However, you once said “If Manning is a traitor, so is Ellsberg!” {5}
I appreciate your participation in this forum, Max. I hope you do not mind my pointing out your frequent errors, false statements, and distortions.
{1} http://www.upi.com/Audio/Year_in_Review … 09436546-7
{2} http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 01165.html
{3} http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/113944#post2425242
{4} http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/113944#post2425886
{5} http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/113325#post2411652Hello, Max.
Correcting your errors could turn out to be a full time career. You are making another false statement when you say, “You accepted blindly the fact that he [Manning] was charged based only upon what the army said.”
Please look back and verify that this is what I actually said…
“Pfc. Manning entered a plea of guilty to 10 of the charges thereby accepting punishment without objection and with no prior agreement to limit the ultimate sentences determined by the court martial.” {1} This is not blindly accepting what the Army said. This is saying Pfc. Manning admitted he was guilty of 10 of the 21 charges against him.
Maxo44oxam wrote:
“and logically Snowden will be charged upon what the NSA will say. May I remind you that the NSA is spying on us and they DARE charging him on ‘spying’ ground. It is a joke.”
Mr. Snowden has been charged with violating espionage laws and I do not believe that he thinks it is a joke. The NSA is not listening to my telephone calls nor are they reading my emails. I suspect this is true for you too unless you are suspected of being a threat to this country.
Maxo44oxam wrote:
“As for Ellsberg, the trial was with the New York Times. They won on the ground that the documents were public records.
Which whistleblower was not charged as if we were a democracy?”
In three sentences there are three false claims. First, the USA is not a democracy! The USA is a republic.
Second, there never was a trial for the New York Times. A federal judge ordered the Times to temporarily halt the publication of the Pentagon Papers. The matter ended when the Supreme Court ruled six to three that the first amendment guarantee of a free press outweighed the government's claim to potential harm to national security. {2}
Three, Ellsberg admitted his guilt and along with co-defendant, Anthony J. Russo Jr., he was tried on 12 federal criminal counts, including conspiracy, theft of government property and espionage. No verdict was ever reached because all charges were dismissed when the presiding judge declared a mistrial because of government misconduct. {3}
{1} http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/113325#post2411938
{2} http://www.upi.com/Audio/Year_in_Review … 09436546-7
{3} http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 01165.htmlI shall repeat once more for those having trouble with English.
Facing 21 charges before a court martial, “Pfc. Manning entered a plea of guilty to 10 of the charges thereby accepting punishment without objection and with no prior agreement to limit the ultimate sentences determined by the court martial.” {1}
{1} http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/113325#post2411938
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