Atheists Are True

1. 59

   sibtain bukhariposted 9 years ago

   I have made an experience of closing my eyes from the great,wonderful,mysterious and infinite worlds of inside and out side of me and I safely concluded that'' I can never see God,therefore, God is not present'',therefore,atheists are true subject to'' closing of their eyes''.

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      wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      LOL  The twisting and spinning of the theist to somehow legitimize their lack of reason and logic never end, does it?

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         Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         OK.
         Now prove to the 85%, God dose not exist. Without closing your eyes -prove it.
         
         Blind faith pretents to works the other way.

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         1. 76

            Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            You Humans are stupid, very very stupid. From an Alien in the Movie- Planet 9.
            Although we did kick the Aliens As_

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            wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            What 85% and what god?  The Christian god and the 85% of professed Christians that actually DO believe?

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      2. 59

         sibtain bukhariposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Wilderness,God is logical conclusion of a scientific universe as I have stated in some earlier posts,what is the problem of atheists ? atheists never apply reason,they only confine themselves in the reason,they are the ''prisoners of the reason'',they are not ''actors of the reason'',absence of God may be logical conclusion of self existing and self created universe but they can never prove the same,absence of God may be logical conclusion of the unscientific universe but they have failed to do the same,absence of God may be logical conclusion of the complete and perfect knowledge but they claim the same under the lack of belief and lack of knowledge,I have failed to understand that how lack of knowledge will conclude absence of God?,how scientific universe will conclude absence of God?,how non self existing universe will conclude absence of God ?

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         1. 96

            wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            You have indeed stated that many times.  Unfortunately, every time you do it is still a false conclusion, untrue and without any logic whatsoever.  Repeated claims will not change that.
            
            
            
            True, it is very difficult to prove a negative.  Proving that a nonexistent creature, defined as undetectable, does not exist is impossible - it's part of why the onus of the proof lies on the person making the claim of existence.  You, in other words; prove your god is there if you want people to believe the claim.
            
            
            
            It's really quite simple; if we have no knowledge of a god's existence the reasonable conclusion is that it is not there.  We do the same with leprechauns, unicorns, Thor and his compatriots, the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and the Loch Ness monster.  We can find no evidence of any of those and conclude they do not exist; we do the same with your god.  No evidence of existence brings the conclusion that it probably does not exist.
            
            
            
            See above paragraph.  It explains how the scientific universe makes the conclusion.  A "non self existing universe" (an imaginary one, in other words, as there is no evidence for the god necessary to produce such a universe) is a conundrum; something that cannot happen.

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            1. 59

               sibtain bukhariposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Wilderness,we can never conclude absence from lack of knowledge,if I have no knowledge that you are present,it does not mean that you are not present,atheism is absence of knowledge,therefore,it can never deny existence of God for lack of knowledge .if you are interested for denial of GOD you are first required to have complete knowledge for absence,atheists may claim that they have no knowledge of GOD as they have no evidence for the same or they never consider the evidence produced by the  religious class as standard evidence for the proof of GOD but how they may claim that as they have no knowledge therefore, GOD is not.It is the reason I have stated that atheism is not more than a deception,it gives impression of a ''logic'',but it is in terms of strong denial of GOD is nothing more than a ''blind belief'' ,therefore,it will be logical for you to come out of this'' blind faith''.

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               1. 96

                  wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  We can never have complete knowledge of absence of god.  We do not have any knowledge of presence of god despite millenia of looking.  The tentative conclusion is absence then.  It is not knowledge, but a high probability assumption, based on a complete lack of evidence after those centuries of effort. 
                  
                  But what we absolutely do NOT do is assume presence of a god simply because we want it to be so, OR because we can't answer questions as to origin and so make up answers without evidence of same.  The assumption of a god would be an extremely low probability, then, for the same reasons that absence is a high probability.  We can find no evidence of a god despite much effort; if a god exists then thousands of years of effort have been a failure and that's a lot of failures.

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                  1. 59

                     sibtain bukhariposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Wilderness,How can you rule out possibility of existence of GOD just for your lack of knowledge?why are you insisting for absence of GOD for lack of knowledge ?Why are you converting atheism in to a belief of absence of GOD?Why are you believing that your reason is unconfined and is capable of grasping infinite GOD ?what is evidence for this belief?Why are you believing that universe is self existing? Why are you believing that universe is self evolved?Why are you supposing that law of probability is not in favor of GOD ?Science never concludes from lack of knowledge ,then, why are you doing so?

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                     1. 96

                        wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        From my post:
                        
                        "The assumption of a god would be an extremely low probability, then, for the same reasons that absence is a high probability."
                        
                        The term "low probability" does not mean zero probability, just a very low one.  The possibility of a god thus exists, and I recognize that, it is just quite unlikely. 
                        
                        Atheism is not a belief there is no god; it is just as likely to be what I used to call "agnostic"; a recognition that we do not know.  I don't know; you don't know; no one alive today knows.
                        
                        The "belief" that the universe created itself is a misnomer; it is merely the conclusion based on best (in this case, all) evidence.  It is not absolutely known, just as it is not absolutely known if there is a god that did it or not?  The first follows from the second.
                        
                        Sorry - science always concludes from less that total knowledge.  That is something the human race will never have, but we still make determinations and conclusion based on the knowledge and evidence we DO have.  We just have no evidence of a god and so decline to conclude that there is one out there anyway.  From a science viewpoint, anyway; many millions want it badly enough to decide there is one without needing evidence to support the conclusion.

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                        1. 76

                           Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           There is the honest answer- None of us know.
                           Boy! That was too easy.
                           
                           There is higher probability there is Aliens than there is Yahweh Lord God (Creator of the Universe) A few people claimed they have seen Bigfoot around my home. That makes a better witness to me than a  2000 year old man, we assume to be the best for our soul.
                           Please don't take my soul, it's all I got.

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                           1. 96

                              wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              Not possible - Yahweh is, by dint of his existence in another universe, an ET by definition, an alien. 
                              
                              I do promise not to take your soul, though.

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                              1. 76

                                 Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 Good to know, your not one of those mind, body and soul snatchers.
                                 
                                 I freely will give you part of my soul, just not too much.

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                        2. 59

                           sibtain bukhariposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           Wilderness,you admitted the possibility of existence of GOD ,you also admitted that atheism is not a belief of absence of GOD ,you also admitted that science concludes from less,therefore,it is clear that we can never deny existence of GOD upon the basis of science,logic and atheism and this is my point of view,you are in agreement with me on this line but you further stated many times that we have no evidence of GOD ,how do you claim this?reason never supports your contention as you may question the quality of evidence or level of outer experience of evidence but how may you disqualify the evidence?your argument may be that as you can never ''touch'' and ''see'' GOD through experiment in laboratory therefore GOD  is not,but how may you overview the logical and reasonable ,and necessary   conclusion of GOD from scientific universe,I further hope you will more learn from me as you amended your views by accepting the possibility of GOD.

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                           1. 96

                              wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              While "admit" is not the word to use, I do take that stand.  We (neither you nor I nor anyone else) knows if there is a god.
                              
                              I say we do not know because after thousands of years of searching, there is still no proof.  If you have proof, I would be very interested in seeing it, but it must be real proof.  Not an opinion that because a tree grows it proves there is another universe containing a god that made this one.  Show us all if you have that proof.

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                           2. 76

                              Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              Show us God in 3D When YOU find him

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   2. 83

      psycheskinnerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Most Christians I know are less judgmental than this proclamation suggests.  I think Jesus and the current Pope offer some lessons on that.

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2. 59

   sibtain bukhariposted 9 years ago

   Wilderness,I welcome your ''admission''of possibility of GOD for lack of knowledge, now do not try to prove HIS absence for lack of knowledge .As you have failed to rule out any possibility of GOD or in other words ,you have failed to prove that existence of GOD is against reason,therefore,I do not require to prove the existence of GOD as HIS existence has been admitted within reason not against the reason, however, HE may be out of scope of reason for limitations of reason and therefore,HE can never be subjected to the scientific  experiment but HE may be evidenced by the scientific universe.You are confusing'' experiment'' with ''evidence'',This infinite universe inward and outside you is tangible evidence of GOD but not experiment of GOD,you must make correction in your statement..

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      wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Please show how the universe is tangible evidence of a god - WITHOUT first assuming that it was created by a god.

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3. 59

   sibtain bukhariposted 9 years ago

   Wilderness,very simple, a scientific universe will itself conclude logically and necessarily, an intelligent GOD for its  existence and we will never have to presuppose a GOD as atheists do for supposing a self existing universe, this argument and evidence may be negated only by the uncountable scientific proof of self existence of universe and in the absence of the same the universe is the evidence of an Intelligent GOD.

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   1. 96

      wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I'm sorry, but I asked for proof.  Not an opinion that a dead, unliving universe will use logic to prove the existence of a god. 
      
      If YOU, on the other hand, feel that a god is a logical necessity perhaps you can lay out the logic in a syllogism to show the intermediate steps between a known and proven hypothesis and the conclusion there is a god that made us all?

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      1. 59

         sibtain bukhariposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         wilderness,If it is opinion and not conclusion then prove self existence  of the'' dead''and'' living universe'' ..

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         1. 96

            wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            I think, therefore I am. 
            
            It requires "space" to contain "me".
            
            Therefore, space (another name for the universe) exists.
            
            But what does that have to do with an opinion that the universe is a living organism and able to use logical thought?

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            1. 59

               sibtain bukhariposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Wilderness,this is not reply of my question,existence of universe is established,self existence of universe is also established? without proving universe is existing by self or universe has capability of self existence and self creation how can you reject the requirement of GOD for its existence/creation? It is necessary to prove a self existing universe for ousting the necessity of a GOD for its existence.

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               1. 96

                  wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Sorry, I'm having a real hard time understand what you mean.  I don't know what self existence means, I don't know what "capability of self existence" means.
                  
                  What I DO know and understand is that if you claim a god made the universe then it is up to you to prove it.  Not someone else to disprove your claim.  Simply making the claim does not make it true and does not mean the claim must be "ousted".  It is up to you to supply proof, not someone else.

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                     Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Dam right

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         2. 83

            psycheskinnerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            If it is an opinion than it is not universal, so what is your point? You stated it like something everyone should agree on when clearly that is not a reasonable expectation.

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            1. 76

               Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               I agree with wilderness statement...
               
               What I DO know and understand is that if you claim a god made the universe then it is up to you to prove it.  Not someone else to disprove your claim.  Simply making the claim does not make it true and does not mean the claim must be "ousted".  It is up to you to supply proof, not someone else.
               
               
               
               The only true answer I could ever give, is  "I don't know if God exist or if God dose not.exist " It is up to the person to prove their claim that their God is the only right God, and their way to God is the only true way to God. "ALL OTHERS CAN GO TO HELL" kind of attitute. To me, it's harmful to our live and let live lifestyles and towards a friendier World.

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   2. 83

      psycheskinnerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      If by logic you mean "I assume it" and "I am special and therefore what I assume it true, but you assume are not special and so what you assume is false", sure.

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4. 59

   sibtain bukhariposted 9 years ago

   Wilderness,Earlier,I have done it so many times but as your stance is not objective but subjective and as you have very strong and rigid  belief for absence of GOD ,therefore,it is very difficult for you to look upon the universe with ''open eyes'',therefore,I argue in another line,forget GOD,first think honestly that our reason may accept that this infinite   universe would have been existed by-self? Is it possible for the same?Your small pen,your small computer,your small table are self made?then how this infinite ,scientific and wonderful universe is self made?you may prove that universe is self made?obviously not,then what will be the conclusion of the reason? universe is self made and no GOD?We must avoid from the blind belief of the absence of GOD.

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   1. 96

      wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Wanting evidence outside my own mind and imagination is subjective?  It seems we have very different definitions of the word - you might give us YOUR definition so as to facilitate communication.
      
      "then how this infinite ,scientific and wonderful universe is self made"
      
      If you don't know, take up the study of cosmology and physics.  In a decade or so you may understand.  In the meantime, however:
      
      1.  Your ignorance of how it is possible does not mean a god did it.
      2.  My ignorance of the details of creation does not mean a god did it.
      3.  The world's ignorance of the details of creation does not mean a god did it.
      4.  Made up solutions without supporting evidence very seldom produces truth;  that a god from another universe made this one is in desperate need of supporting evidence.  Until that evidence is found, there is exactly zero reason to believe that such a creature exists.
      5.  Claiming that the tree in the front yard proves a god exists is ridiculous.  You have not, and cannot, support the claim with either logic OR a "breadcrumb trail" of facts leading to a another universe, let alone a single god that lives there and made this one.
      6.  Comparing a pen, table or any other man made item to a universe is ridiculous; they have almost nothing in common and certainly did not have the same creation process.

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         Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Wish you could make this much sense about guns. LO

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5. 59

   sibtain bukhariposted 9 years ago

   Wilderness,Your belief in self existence of universe without any scientific evidence and logical conclusion is nothing but a ''subjective belief'',you can never be logical and scientific without coming out of this magical belief and it will be very difficult for you to understand the logical conclusion of God or creator from the fact of'' non self existing universe'',it is surprising that you require laboratory proof of GOD from us but you yourself have belief in'' self existence of universe'' without scientific proof of the same and try to use some scientific theories, working just to understand the process of development of the universe,as ''scientific evidence'' for self existence of universe,the ''same and single origin of universe'' is a religious concept being worked by science ,that never proves the self existence of universe but only capability of self evolving in the nature.GOD is not the conclusion from'' ignorance'' but a conclusion from the available fact of'' existing universe'',if you think that this is wrong then prove that the universe is by self otherwise, ''existing universe'' will continue to conclude the logical conclusion of GOD FOR the time being,therefore,GOD is a logical conclusion and not a'' blind faith'',we do not know who is GOD and what is His universe we only know that the fact of existing universe will only conclude a creator,pen, table etc have common thing matter and you have not made the matter but only made a form by using the same,when you not have a belief that'' form'' has been made by self then why do you have belief that the'' matter'',the whole universe has been made by self and present this'' blind belief'' as the'' reasonable belief''. what is subjective?

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      wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Your continual claims that I have a "belief" concerning origin of universe is tiresome: I have repeatedly said there is no evidence either way. 
      
      Your continual claims of a god, without supporting evidence, is equally tiresome.  If you wish to reason, scientifically or logically, then you must supply evidence for your claims of an imaginary creature in another universe.  Please do so or refrain from making the claims.
      
      I have asked for the logic showing a god made the universe; your reply is to say that it exists and therefore a god made it.  This is called "fallacy", not "logic", which I'm sure you know.  Should you wish to use logic, you will have to to so and not simply pretend that anything you say is logical.  Using your conclusion as a proven premise is not a logical progression.

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      1. 59

         sibtain bukhariposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Wilderness,''Existence of universe'',is a fact but ,'',self existence of universe'',is not a fact but a'' belief'',former concludes GOD for its existence but later concludes absence of GOD,atheists presume the ''self existence''of universe as ''fact'',in other words they consider ''existence of universe'' as ''self existence'',hence they make a presumption or belief as a fact and concludes no evidence for GOD, this is ''fallacy'',if you take ''existence'' as ''existence'' and not a ''belief of self existence'',it will conclude creator for its being,this is logical problem of atheists as they know that there is no proof of self existence of universe,therefore, they intentionally take existence as self existence for avoidance of logical conclusion of GOD from existence.

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         1. 83

            psycheskinnerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            So existing means God?
            
            Why?
            
            You keep saying it but you never answer that question other than that you think it, with the assumption you are so wise we should just all fall in line. To which my answer is simply: I know a lot of people who think egotistically like that and they are not all theists. Personally I trust what I think over what some random "wise" person on the internet keeps saying.  One not even wise enough to use conventional punctuation to aid communication.
            
            I will stick with existing means existing. Existing means deciding things for yourself.

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6. 61

   kashif habibposted 9 years ago

   How one explains existance of oneself and other creations - result of co incidence? Well how convenient

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   1. 83

      psycheskinnerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      How do you explain that people just as nice and smart as you see the world differently.  Well... you could try doing it without insulting them.  That's what makes the world a more peaceful and pleasant place.

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7. 59

   sibtain bukhariposted 9 years ago

   ''Existence'' not means GOD,''Existence'' requires GOD for its being,you are ''existence'',therefore,you require ONE who has brought you in to existence.If you are not ''existence'' or you are existing'' by your self ''then,you will not require GOD for your being.

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      Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      You can be a person of well-being and master a lifestyle without God, right?

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8. 59

   sibtain bukhariposted 9 years ago

   Castlepaloma,Existence of universe proves ONE who has brought it in to existence,if you disagree prove self existence of universe.If you have failed to prove the same then your logical conclusion also must be the same,I presented.How will you conclude the existence of a universe failing to prove that it is made by self?,this argument can never be over-viewed ,simply,saying that ''existence is existence and nothing'' as Atheists do.The infinite universe is great and undeniable proof of one who has made although,we could not have direct knowledge of HIM or even we can never observe HIM but evidence for HIM is available and the same can never be denied upon the basis of argument that we have no direct knowledge of HIM.The great evidence is concluding GOD and will continue the same until we have proof of self existence of universe.

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      Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Proof the Universe exist, easy to do for superhuman that co exist with a super nature master.
      
      Now show us the results of this one God beyond the millions of other God that he exist and works for everyone on this planet. He must be proven to be the Best.
      
      Should be easy, magic is all that is required.

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      1. 76

         Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Nerds, Pollician, and atheist all have a higher IQ than the Adverage Christian and they have not figure out this intelligent design . What hope do we have with Christians figureing it out with their worst ethical record and low intelligent group.

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   2. 0

      Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Am I getting you right, are you saying everything in existence was created by intelligence?

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9. 59

   usamaahmedposted 9 years ago

   Its mean you are in this world for nothing? Strange ._.

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   1. 76

      Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Atheist have the highest religious knowledge of any group, why can't they figure out intelligent design.
      
      All you need is FAITH... , lat'' te' da, de' da"
      All you need is faith.... la't te" da'te da
      Faith.. faith, all you need is faith.

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