So God who wills all to be saved (1Tim2:3-4) is dependent on our free will to sa

1. 69

   SwordofManticorEposted 11 years ago

   So God who wills all to be saved (1Tim2:3-4) is dependent on our free will to save us?
   
   So God who wills all to be saved (1Tim2:3-4) is dependent on our free will to save us? Is our will sovereign over God's will? Why does God need our permission to save us? God who cannot be with sin had a discussion with satan about Job. What's up with that theology? God who loves us all, but will allow billions burn eternally because they rejected Him cannot be a very good father after all as it seems? Jesus told us to love our enemies. Does He love His enemies? Is God vindictive or corrective? Did God lose the vast majority of the human race?

   replyreport
2. 77

   bockshinerposted 11 years ago

   Nope. God does not need our permission to save us. That kind of theology is not biblical. The kind of theology that says that God will have mercy on all people is also not biblical.
   
   "For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy." (Romans 9:15-16 ESV)

   replyreport
3. 72

   lone77starposted 11 years ago

   Why the confusion? The answer is simple!
   
   God created free will, and that's a good thing.
   
   If we choose oblivion then that will be our choice. If God were to "decide for us," then it wouldn't be free will, would it?
   
   If you have a child who insists on living an evil lifestyle, illicit sex, drugs, murder and the like, what can you do about it? Can you control them like a puppet and bring them back?
   
   If a child insists in driving their car over a cliff, and you're not in the car to stop them, what can you do?
   
   You're treating this as God's doing. It isn't God's decision that they turn their backs on God. They are all deciding to step off the edge and to plummet into oblivion. They may not consciously realize that's what they're doing, but they've been given plenty of opportunities to change their minds.
   
   Deciding to turn back to God is something only the individual can do. They can continue to depend on physical reality, or change to depend upon God. It's merely and only a matter of individual choice.
   
   And don't go thinking this has anything to do with the human race. God's children were created in His image, and God is not Homo sapiens.

   replyreport
   1. 53

      whonunuwhoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I agree lone77star, so many are confused, mixed-up, unsure and, many, so bitter, that everything seems out-of-sinc and unstable in their worlds. A few just need self assurance and reach out to others for answers about God and creation.

      replyreport
4. 53

   whonunuwhoposted 11 years ago

   bockshiner and lone77star are right, God does not decide for ourselves, we are given free will to make our own choices. Besides being a great father who gives the precious gift of life, He is a powerful watchman and guards his flock with great ferocity. Those who would harm His children, may heaven help their souls, for He will keep his children close to him and bring them home when it is time. Jesus loved His enemies enough to allow them to crucify him on a cross and then offer forgiveness to all. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as one, love enough to give eternal life to those who seek it.

   replyreport
5. 60

   Vegas Eliasposted 11 years ago

   I have done lot of thinking on this topic. I have read the Old Testament Bible and the New Testament Bible several times so much that by Bible copies reduced to separate pages by breaking out of the binding. I have also read the agnostic gospels, the Holy Quran, the Bhagavad Gita for that matter.
   What I feel is that God is not out there or here among us to punish us. God is a loving God and all of us will ultimately unite with him irrespective of whether we were sinners or saints. He will forgive all of us.
   However there will be an extent of suffering one has to undergo depending on out wrongdoings, not only sins but also going against natural laws. The best laws are written in nature, in the laws of physics, chemistry and biology. Sodomy goes against biology and will be appropriately punished. Such other things have to happen to that soul who undermines natural laws.

   replyreport
6. 69

   SwordofManticorEposted 11 years ago

   It saddens me to say this, but I think you are all wrong with the exception of Vegas Elias. If a parent has ten children and nine of them end up in prison for breaking the law, because the parent respected them to make their own choices growing up. I hold such a parent more responsible than I do the nine children. If a parent makes a promise like God did to Abraham (Gen 18:18) (Acts 3:25)and breaks it, he is not worthy to be taken serious. The foundation of God's plan was made before all time. 
   
   2Cor 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
   
   Col 1:20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
   
   "For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human (free will? mine!) will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy." (Romans 9:15-16 ESV)
   
   His mercy will be poured on all, as it does not say in Rom 9:15-16 that His mercy is given only to some.
   
   Romans 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
   
   1 Timothy 4:9 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance. 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
   11 Command and teach these things.
   
   Romans 3: 3 What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?
   
   Sadly, this has not been accepted by the church, nor is it being commanded or taught. Paul tells us in 2 Cor 5 to teach the ministry of reconciliation of all things, but the church does not teach this ministry. It teaches turn or burn, creating many Christians to worship God only to avoid going to hell. The thought of going to hell is the only motivation to worship God for many. They miss out on knowing His unfailing loving nature as a faithful Father.
   
   
   The bible is not read as it should be read, it is read as many want it to be read, because it has suffered more by its exponents than it has by its opponents.

   replyreport
   1. 53

      whonunuwhoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I never cease to be amazed by those who know so much about the scriptures. This is an admirable undertaking and a worthy quest. It is my own belief that we should remember that the Bible's scriptures were written by men, and with God's inspiration.

      replyreport
7. 71

   Barnseyposted 11 years ago

   The answer may seem simple to the blissfully faithful. I however put my faith in the strength of my arms and convictions. If God gave humans free will then why are we bothering with religion and church? Why are we bound and constrained by doctrine? Which is it, grand hypocrisy? Free will or the ten commandments? Hmmmm....to so blissfully put away your thinking cap and let be what will be is something to be admired.
   It is obviously nonsense since only a small portion of the world ever recieved God's message. What, God doesnt like the yellow man, the red man, the brown or black? Elitist nonsense makes a certain group of people think that they alone are the recievers of God's love. Just like they used to believe our world was at the center of the universe. Morons!
   You will not be saved for there is nothing but a pack of lies for you to be saved from...you will die and then if you have not learned enough you will return to the living in another form. There is no Hell or Satan, they were created by the control freaks in order to stop the sinning. Sinning that was decreed as such by men, not God.
   And please don't tell me Jesus was God. You all know he was perhaps the son of God but he was not God. All fairy tales have a basis in fact, I will submit to this, but I will not allow my life course to be decided by words spoken and written by a mortal man. Anyone can say they spoke to God, football players do it all the time. We know they are crazy, lets admit the people who supposedly heard God two thousand years ago and more were bi-polar or suffering from illusions brought on by the LSD growing on their barley. Look it up if you don't believe me. LSD! They didnt know it then but we know it now. We have been adhering to the words of men in drug induced fantasies!!!

   replyreport