Is There Free Will In A Deterministic Reality?

1. 63

   PhoenixVposted 8 years ago

   Is There Free Will In A Deterministic Reality?
   
   Explain your answer.

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2. 75

   m abdullah javedposted 8 years ago

   Reality is a fact and that can't be changed. When it comes to a deterministic reality pertaining to human destiny there can be no way possible to reverse the determined process hence there is no option to exercise free will.
   It can be a principled stand on the question posed and can be applied to varied situations.
   But as far the destiny of an individual is concerned, there appears a possibility of exercising a free will,  it means what he or she is destined with some determined things can be reverted. Since we are unaware of what an individual had been destined with, so it depends on one's heart and mind conditions to realise the same and try to avoid or avert it by establishing a close contact with the One Who has predetermined the things. that's why we find the concept of doing good, charity, supplications, social service etc in different religions, if one follows these things with an intention to be good and be beneficial to humanity even the deterministic realities can change. But we need to understand that everything can't be changed things only pertaining to one's condition can change for instance poverty, test and trials, illness... As far the physique, relationships etc which we have been tied with will remain as long as we are alive.

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   1. 79

      dashingscorpioposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      "Reality is a fact and that can't be changed."
      Perception is reality. At one time experts believed the world was flat!
      One has to see the whole in order to declare something is a fact.

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   PeterStipposted 8 years ago

   This question would be interesting a 150 years ago, but since quantum mechanics we know that the universe we live in is not deterministic.

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4. 79

   dashingscorpioposted 8 years ago

   Free will has to do with us (making choices).
   Our reality is the end result or consequence of the choices we've made. There are no "guaranteed outcomes".
   At most all we can do is hope for the best results.
   If there were guarantees then everyone who did the same thing would get the same results! Some people drop out of high school and become millionaires while others have PhDs and barely make ends meet. Life is a (personal) journey!

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5. 57

   The0NatureBoyposted 8 years ago

   I concur with Muhammad Abdullah Javed's first paragraph, "Reality is a fact and that can't be changed. When it comes to a deterministic reality pertaining to human destiny there can be no way possible to reverse the determined process hence there is no option to exercise free will."
   
   What an inquiring mind will find concerning "karma" and "reaping what man sow" is everything concerning every man is predestined which completely eliminates freewill.  However, because only those who have gone through the metamorphosis of the new birth will have access to the complete comprehension that karma eliminates freewill.  The unwise man-em-mass will generally believe they have freewill although they do not. 
   
   What often happens is one makes the decision, we will say, to be a drunkard but after years of it they suddenly say "I'm tired of the hangovers" and stop drinking completely.  Without considering karma that appears to be a choice they made but adding karma to it suggests a karmic debt required that change and predestined the saying "I am tired of hangovers" causing the appearance of free will.

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      dashingscorpioposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      "The unwise man-em-mass will generally believe they have freewill although they do not." Are you saying it wasn't up to you to post an answer to this question? Is not suicide an act of free will? Having choices is free will! Having none isn't.

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   2. 57

      The0NatureBoyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Suicide is not an act of free will, every life-force must experience it as both genders. The only possible freewill would be to choose one's first incarnation, once that incarnation is made everything is preordained to include at least 2 suicides.

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   3. 79

      dashingscorpioposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      "Suicide is not an act of free will" Seriously?
      Whether one decides to take their own life or not is the ultimate example of free will.
      No one is making you live just as no one makes you eat meat or whatever. You (choose)! It's not preordained.

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   4. 0

      PeterStipposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      So according to you its predestined what your next incarnation will be. To say that free will does not exist is an excuse to murder and rape and then say:I had no choice in the matter it wasn't my fold. I was programmed by higher powers to do so.

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   5. 57

      The0NatureBoyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      PS, Each life-force is predestined to murder/be killed, rape/be raped, molest/be molested as many times as they do either one of every possible scenario any life-force does, it's the learning process to know every condition any life type endures.

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   6. 0

      PeterStipposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      So murder and rape is a learning process!! What kind of excuse is that!!! Tell that to the victim. Your just got gang raped, it's your fault it happened, you have to learn something in life....get real.

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      Buildrepsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      How odd it may appear, Elijah Alfred has actually a point there. You're right that it unexplainable to the victims. But when you're able to lift it from the level of the great illusion to the spiritual level the whole picture changes.

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   8. 79

      dashingscorpioposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Elijah, Believing in fate/destiny is a convenient excuse for not being  pro-active in making decisions in one's life. According to you there should be no jails because (people) aren't responsible for their actions. It was all preordained!

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   9. 0

      PeterStipposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The spiritual level is believing without evidence. that's the same as illusion. I do not buy it that murder or rape is spiritual in any way. People who say that they are higher on the spiritual ladder are simply arrogant , like priests and gurus.

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   10. 85

       Buildrepsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I agree with you when it comes to the pretentious claims many spirituals are making. But there is mathematical prove for the spiritual level. And that's certainly no illusion. Materialistic science is an illusion though...

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       PeterStipposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Prove and spirituality are a contradiction. If there was prove a god existed nobody would believe but know. And to use quantum mechanics as a backbone for a spiritual world is simplistic.True materialistic science is dead and an old fashioned concept

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   12. 85

       Buildrepsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       The Pythagorean Illuminati have recently spilled the beans to the general public, because the timing was right. There you can find everything you need to know. Your claim that spirituality and prove are at odds is not correct. Math is all you need...

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       PeterStipposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Sounds interesting I'll have a look at it. Yes math and spirituality are old friends. I'm an artist and not religious but consider art as spiritual as well at times but more in a sense of a deeper level of beauty....or something like that ;-)

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   14. 57

       The0NatureBoyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Everything any man do is written in their DNA, there is proof for anyone who doesn't accept my statement.  To find proof of anything one must incorporate everything known to man to find evidence & substance to support the unseen.

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6. 85

   Buildrepsposted 8 years ago

   What is reality? Reality is that everything is ultimately vibration.
   
   What the Heisenberg uncertainty principle shows us is that you cannot know the two properties of an electron at the same time. You know the momentum OR you know the position. Not both at the same time.
   
   You cannot capture all properties of a particle in the hope to establish absolute certainty about the next 'choice' a single particle is going to make. The behaviour of trillions of particles is statistically stable, which is the basis of chemical science. For large masses it's possible to predict what it's going to do. Large masses have no free will so to speak.
   
   But a single particle shows us that we cannot know all its elements in order to predict what it's going to do next.
   
   What particles show us on this microscopic scale, is the basis of Free Will. People have Free Will and this will always be like this, since it is embedded in the tiniest parts - as below, so above.

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      The0NatureBoyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      When one visualizes their timeline the first incarnation may be free will but all other incarnations are compounded by the karma to the first so the concept of freewill exists but every following incarnation is controlled by predestination.

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      Buildrepsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The way how the Hindu religion explains karma is morally and has the purpose to control the population. The Law of Cause and Effect is what underlies to Karma. To drop a claim how this exactly works is pretentious. You must simply believe in it.

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7. 52

   Norine Williamsposted 8 years ago

   No!  There is "No Free Will" in a "Deterministic Reality!"  Deterministic is often understood as ruling out free will and is a belief in predestination.
   
   When speaking to "unbelievers," Yes, "they" do have "free will"  to "...choose you this day whom ye will serve..."  (Joshua 24:15) but if one chooses God, there is "no free will" (according to Scripture), for "believers!"  Jesus said in John 14:23 "...If a man love me, he will keep my words..."  Does this leave "believers" "free will" or a choice? 
   
   The GOD I serve KNOWS ALL!  He is "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end!"   (Revelation 1:8; 11)  I John 3:19 says "...and he knows everything!"  Psalms 139:4 says "Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O LORD, you know it altogether!" 
   How can a "believer" not believe in predestination?  IT IS WRITTEN in the Word of God!
   
   Therefore, yes "unbelievers" do have "free will" to "choose whom they will serve," but if they choose GOD, there is NO "free will!"

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      The0NatureBoyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      There are no unbelievers, believe is accepting something needing proof, we all do but truth seekers, realizing they have no proof begin seriously searching of answers.  Believers accept free will, truth seekers, the faithful (Heb 11:1), seeks proof.

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   2. 52

      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Tell the Atheist "There r no unbelievers..."
      Heb 11:1 contradicts ur statement"..the faithful seeks proof."  It says "..hoped for, the evidence of thgs not seen.." Why "seek proof" when unseen? Believers need faith!
      Did Jesus have "free will?

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   3. 57

      The0NatureBoyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Everyone believes something but few people are faithful enough to seek proof of what they believe.  Believing precedes being faithful, the FAITHFUL FINDS PROOF IN SUPPORT OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE, thus, there are no nonbelievers but many unfaithful.

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   4. 52

      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Eli: I'm talking "Spiritual!"  Yes, everyone "blv" in something, but belief in "GOD" is what I'm referring to!  Even JESUS said "Not my WILL, but thine be done!" Does that sound like "free will" when IN Christ? ALL talk carnally when it's Spiritual!

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   5. 57

      The0NatureBoyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Do you believe to the point that you say "not my will but thine" to father? Have father shown you enough evidence and substance that you can surrender your every will to it for it to guide your every action? If not, you have no faith, only believe.

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   6. 52

      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      "Believing" in "rightly divided Word" rather than having "faith" in Word "out of context," is a start in the right direction!  Like reading a map, if headed the wrong way, still LOST no matter how much "faith!"
      
      We're ALL "growing!"  II Cor 3:18!

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      The0NatureBoyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      By your words I can say YOU ARE TRUELY LOST.

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      PeterStipposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The arrogance of men..

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      Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Eli: My words? R u still bringing "sacrifices?" That has been "rightly divided" (I hope)!  If u do, headed in "wrong direction!"  We MUST cont to "grow!" II Cor 3:18!
      
      Pete: "Arrogance?"  Why don't us "study to see if these those r so" vs. "judging?"

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       Buildrepsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       It is an act of ignorance, Elijah Alfred, telling that someone is lost because he doesn't adopt your position of faith. What you might not realize is that condemning others is one of the many faces of Maya.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Build: I wouldn't mine IF Eli had "proof" (as I've given) fm the Word of God of his faith, but his belief is totally "against" Scripture! All I've said is under NC we r 2 "do as the Apostles did" since JESUS was talking thru them in which he disagre

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       Buildrepsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       I praise Elijah for his choice to reject any scriptures.

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       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       My Bible (Scriptures/belief) says so does Satan!
       
       Jm 2:19 Satan "trembles!"

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       PeterStipposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       So God and the Devil and all the believers don't have free will but all the atheist do have free will.!! Wow am I glad I have free will and can choose in my live and be responsible for my actions. Good or bad.

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       Buildrepsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Everyone has free will, whether they like it or not. No scripture, No Demiurge or any Karma can change that. There is though Cause and Effect that has many (meta)physical levels, but that still doesn't change the fact of free will.

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       PeterStipposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Well said buildreps

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       The0NatureBoyposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Buildreps, did you comprehend NW's words?  She's reading the map but do not understands the intention of it, what else could she be?  I will accept being arrogant knowing she does comprehend what she reads, thus her words reveals her lostness.

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   18. 52

       Norine Williamsposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Build: It's true if one is not a "believer!"  Did Jesus have "free will?" Aren't "believers" suppose to be Christ-like? There it is- Truth- No "freewill for "believers" but "not my will but thine be done!"
       
       Eli: Study!

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