Is this palatable to most Christians? Pope: I'll judge Trump after we see what h

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   Ericdierkerposted 7 years ago

   Is this palatable to most Christians?
   Pope: I'll judge Trump after we see what he does.
   
   Perhaps I read this quote out of context but could find no Vatican context to put it in. I am a great proponent that we all use judgment every day and prohibitions don't mean the day to day judgment.
   But there is no question here, the Pope is talking full judgment. His judgement as the successor to Simon Peter. The Pope did not even do that with Hitler or Mussolini. We love this Pope but he has seriously stumbled in the are of vainglory. He should repent.
   Or do you think it is justified to treat a US president worse than Stalin and Pol Pot? This Pope has major Catechism issues.

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   tamarawilhiteposted 7 years ago

   The Pope is wrong to judge a President who has not had time to do much other than not be liberal as evil when ignoring North Korean death camps where they send 3 generations of a family for crimes against the state, Cuba jailing librarians for sharing books contrary to political correctness, barely criticizing Muslim fundamentalist groups taking Yazidi and Christian sex slaves in Iraq & Syria or simply Christian ones in Nigeria (Boko Haram).
   This is a classic case of liberal secularists seeing political conservatives and conservative Christians as a boogeyman threat of a Christian theocratic state while ignoring the oppression of Christians and secular Muslims from Iran to Saudi Arabia to ISIS to Boko Haram to ... the list goes on.
   And given the Pope's "global warming is our biggest threat" encyclical vs fundamentalist Muslims threatening to destroy the Vatican while they rape European women with impunity and desecrate churches across Europe, yes, he has the wrong priorities, liberal political ones.

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Tamara I take a different position in this matter. I really, for this notion, do not give a pebble of sand what someone does of does not do. A Christian must never make love conditional. Judgment based on a condition is wrong. Departure from Christ.

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      tamarawilhiteposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Christians are morally obligated to call out evil, and you can condemn an action while loving the person. Otherwise you can't condemn rape and murder, much less punish, leading to more evil acts.

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Right on Tamara -- but the Pope was clear he was going to judge the man not his deeds.

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   Kathleen Cochranposted 7 years ago

   If people haven't seen already who Trump is by his actions, his words, his personality, they haven't been paying attention.  He is not suddenly going to become a different person.  He has shown himself.  People want to think their "vote against someone" rather than a "vote for someone" has no consequences. It does.  And we are now going to live out those consequences.  Neither candidate was flawless.  But one was seriously unqualified and now he is president.

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Two interesting points Kathleen. The Pope gets to "Judge" as a person. And the qualifications for POTUS requires precedent political position.
      I do not do not think the pope gets to talk of his personal. And I think in some ways prior position hurts

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      Kathleen Cochranposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I see your point.  It was only about 50 years ago the Vatican took a great deal of heat for staying silent during the rise of Hitler and the subsequent Holocaust.  I'm torn between a religious leader imposing himself into politics or not.

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      That conundrum is really interesting. What did Shakespeare say about love? if we look at what Jesus said about the coin with Caesar's likeness we must pause. Maybe Mother Theresa is the value to strive toward. Normally we pray for our leaders?

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   galleryofgraceposted 7 years ago

   Perhaps he  just used the wrong word. Rather than "judge" he should have said that he would "form" an opinion after he sees what Trump does. We are all entitled to form an opinion.The word "judge" seems to ruffle everyone's feathers.

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I am a champion that we all judge. Driving a car, temperature of water, stepping off a curb. But the Holy See speaks of judgment - wrong word or political word it is very scary. Putin affected the election bad -- the Holy See affects it OK?

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      faith-hope-loveposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      The Holy See did not try to have any affect on the election. Some bishops asked that people exercise their vote with care. None of them tried to push one or other of Candidates,  We did watch with interest.

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      John we attend a Roman Catholic church through communion of the Saints of Episcopals. We attend the oldest Basilica in the US. My home follows such matters carefully. I do not falter in truth as to what was said. No one supports our Pope in statement

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   Old-Empresarioposted 7 years ago

   Seems reasonable to me. Judge people by their actions rather than their words.

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      A valid point but us Christians are really not to judge others righteousness or their morality. Judging if he dresses right or if they drive too fast is normal and fine. But clearly that is not what the Holy See is talking about. Character?

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   faith-hope-loveposted 7 years ago

   I have never liked Trump. But like the "Pope" I will judge him as "president" when I see what He does. I believe this should apply to all people.
   Tamara the "Pope" has refused to judge "Trump" till he finds out what he will do.  Before making an answer to question maybe read it twice.

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      John you are saying what the Pope did not say. The quote is in the question. He did not modify it with "president". Are you saying the Pope gets to do the capital "Judge" on anyone? Liking these two is irrelevant.

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      faith-hope-loveposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      No, Eric, and neither is he.  When interviewed the Pope was asked what he thought about Trump.  His answer was " he would wait and see what his actions were before he would make any judgement. He did not say he'd condemn him or anyone in agreement.

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      Ericdierkerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      No Theresa that was not the question the See was asked what the See thought about Trump. I am on my third year of Catechism and I am certain what the See said and it is not in keeping with not judging. I am adamant about this. It is not a slip.

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