How is Splitting Families at Border the same as Slavery?

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   My Esotericposted 5 years ago

   It is the same because Trump's AG Sessions used SAME verses from the Bible to justify taking children away from Families at the border that fellow conservatives used to Justify Slavery
   
   https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 … tions.html

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      ahorsebackposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Correction ; Don't you really mean that ".......tactics democrats used to justify slavery "?  .....like , way before your parties Obama's administrations  photos hit the news net last week accusing Trump of the deplorable conditions that Obama's administration actually used ?

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         My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         No, I was precise with the term "conservative".  It just so happens that in those days, the Democrats were the conservatives.  I suggest you read some history (although I suspect you think textbooks are Fake News as well)
         
         What so-called "deplorable conditions" are your referring to? Can you offer ANY documentation at all?

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            ahorsebackposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            "deplorable "  Aren't those media photos actually FROM the Obama era detention camps ?   Wasn't it a liberal media accusation actually backfiring? So you're all but hurt from your own phony media ?

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   ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

   I suppose anti- Wall people think we can take the word of an ANY  illegal immigrant or " mule "as to just WHO"S kids they are escorting actually are ?
   Why is it that liberals never seem to be able to think beyond the media headline , beyond the phony photos ?
   
   Well, that "  Fake News "kind of backfired didn't it  !

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      My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      You did notice didn't you ahorseback that it was DHS who claimed to have taken 2,000 kids away from their families, didn't you?  Are you calling the DHS Fake News?

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   wildernessposted 5 years ago

   It's really getting hard to deny the progress the country is making, isn't it?  Whining that one person uses biblical scripture to "justify" one thing and another uses it, 100 years later, to "justify" a completely different thing makes the two actions the same is getting awfully close to the bottom of the barrel. 
   
   Your comment is without reason, without logic and makes no sense at all.  Better just quit while you're ahead.

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      My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Your kidding me Wilderness, you don't see the similarity between enslaving a whole race of people ripping their kids away from them and attacking a whole race of people and ripping their kids away?  If not, you are certifiably blind.
      
      AMAZING!!

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         wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         "Enslaving a whole race of people"?  "Attacking a whole race of people"?
         What's amazing is that you could, even with the utmost effort at exaggeration, come up with something so far removed from reality.  You'd be as well off saying they are Martians, come to earth with Star Trek transporters - it would make as much sense as this garbage.

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            My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Your just sharpshooting Wilderness.  Thinking people understand what I am saying.

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               ahorsebackposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               One could say that illegal immigration is taxing our American culture  to extremes  , if one reads esoterics response , what about our health care , our economy , our  tax revenue system , our foreign aid investments ?  We pay that to make them better THERE and they send them HERE ,What, ..... because American taxpayers can afford this international  exploitation we should ?
               
               Fraid not !

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                  My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  So you say legal Latino immigration DOESN'T tax our American culture. Then how does illegal immigration of the same ethnic group tax it?  That doesn't compute
                  
                  What about our health care?  MOST illegals don't use it for fear of ICE and the abuse you claim is a microscopic drop in the bucket when compared to the abuse by native born citizens.
                  
                  Since you don't understand what goes into a growing economy, I'll forgive your comment about the economy.  Let me share this again.  GDP growth in the mid to long-term = population growth + productivity growth.  That is simply a fact.  When you reduce population growth like Trump is doing in a big way, you end up reducing GDP growth - simple math. 
                  
                  As to productivity, studies find immigrants, legal or illegal, are generally more productive that their native born counterpart.
                  
                  Oh, BTW, immigration is what IS making our population grwo
                  
                  Studies show that illegals pay their taxes, so you are for reducing revenue.  In fact, they contribute more in taxes than they using in services.
                  
                  Foreign Aid Investments ???

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               wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               And you're just making gross exaggerations to make it sound far worse than it is.  And to take an unwarranted potshot at Trump, of course.
               
               Thinking people realize that slavery and detaining criminals are completely unrelated, and that we've separated children from incarcerated parents as long as the country has existed.  Do you?

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                  My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  Every potshot at Trump is warranted.  He is a despicable human being.
                  
                  As to your next comment - read the question.

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               Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               No one misunderstands you. You simply aren't realistic. Nothing is thought through to its logical conclusion,
               
               It is a typical liberal problem. Say what 'sounds good' in your head at the moment, demonize any who question (without fully understanding their disagreement) and step away from solutions once problems arise if implementation of your suggestion is attempted.

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                  My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  How am I not "realistic"?

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                     Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     We cannot simply open our borders for any to cross. Those who currently attempt to enter know the rules. They ignore them. Your suggestions imply we must change the rules.
                     
                     What then? Another crisis, created by those who expect an open arms policy. Do we change them again? All I see Trump doing is enforcing existing policy.  Although Sessions is a deplorable, that does not make public policy deplorable. It reflects only on the fool who poorly rationalized.
                     
                     We cannot allow anyone and everyone in, as I see it. It will create too much of a burden for existing citizens. It will create more expenditures in social programs.
                     
                     Seeing what would be a best case scenario for all of the humanity involved can't pan out as a best case scenario for all humanity involved. What we can reasonably accomplish is not always in line with what we'd like to accomplish. We should only do as much as we can without burdening current citizens.

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4. 60

   Live to Learnposted 5 years ago

   On topic, off topic. Although I find it horrible for families to be separated, couldn't the family turn around and return to their home country? I feel the parents bear a brunt of responsibility for this problem.

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      mrpopoposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely. I found this Twitter comment to be humorous:
      
      "This is silly. It's entirely possible for the administration to keep these families together without new legislation. All that's required is to repatriate these families in their home countries.
      
      And we all know that @KamalaHarris wouldn't object to sending these people back home because, as we all learned from the Democrats, the countries from which these people come are totally not shitholes. Since they're not shitholes, there's no reason not to send the illegals back."

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         My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         Hmmm, it seems you are totally insensitive to why referring, especially as the President of the United States,  as "shithole countries" is wrong.  While you may personally feel that way and tell your friends and neighbors such beliefs it isn't for the president to do so.  It makes America no better than say North Korea, Russian, Iran,  or other similar dictators when its leader acts in such a childish and vulgar manner.  I am guessing you don't give a shit about America's image of itself or abroad.

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            ahorsebackposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Which is more important , Image or consistant function of law ?  We all know there are "shithole countries " , for that matter governments and cultures .
            
            Eleventh century cultures don't mix with Twenty first century cultures.

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               My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               We may all know that but the President of the United States doesn't say so in public.  BTW, under Trump, our culture is moving back toward the 11th Century.

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            mrpopoposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Do you remember what your stated topic is about? We don't need to split families at the border because they can be repatriated in their home country. And as you so eloquently demonstrated, Trump is wrong about these countries being shitholes. Therefore, there is no issue in repatriating these families in their home countries.
            
            Of course, you go on to say that if they return to their country they will "probably die, be raped, assaulted, and tortured." That sounds like a living hell, a place where the worst of our evils are commonplace, where the victims are denied the most basic of human dignities. If anything, shithole is putting it mildly. My guess is that the only reason you're offended is because there is truth behind it.
            
            I disagree that all it takes to be as bad as the dictators of NK et al. is to bluntly use a swearword in private. My definition of dictator is a little bit more refined.
            
            I'm less concerned about appearances and more concerned about the consequences of our actions. If you are interested in challenging your perspective on this issue you should watch this video. It may lead you to rethink a thing or two (NSFW - he swears quite a bit. There is also at least one disturbing image): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOOBlcOIcLs

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               GA Andersonposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               Holy cow mrpop! Who the hell is this guy? I have never watched such a speeding, non-stop rant before.  Geez, give his brain a speeding ticket, and his mouth an award for keeping up.
               
               But ... there were a lot of damn good points in that rant. I couldn't cram that much speech, or thought content - as he did in 17 minutes - in a two-hour TED talk, even with a turbocharged teleprompter.
               
               What an entertaining way to start my Sunday morning. I gotta go back and check-out some more of his stuff.
               
               GA

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                  mrpopoposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  Happy to hear someone enjoyed it. He's got quite the mouth on him, and he can do it all in the same take without jump-cuts. It's really impressive.
                  
                  I don't watch all of his content as most of it is gaming and metal related (two things I like, but don't like hearing about). The video I linked is probably his best overall, but I'm sure there are more gems in there. If I think of one that stands out I'll let you know.

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      My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      And probably die, be raped, assaulted, and tortured.  Why do you think they risked their lives getting here.  America used to be a nation to look up to, but thanks to Trump, America is turning into an morally corrupt nation.
      
      Of course, most on here consider themselves conservatives who I must remind has defended every type of human oppression from 1774 to 2018, often using God as the reason it is OK.

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         Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         I care about people but don't arbitrarily assume every person attempting to sneak into the country is fleeing persecution of some type. I don't think any data would support that assumption. Just as I wouldn't pack up my family and assume any country would take us in,open arms, I wonder at the belief we are expected to do that. I would never create a situation in which my children could be separated from me, except in the event that even that was preferable to where I was. In such case I wouldn't be complaining. I created the situation by my own actions.

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            My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            No, not every person for sure, but most are.  Especially the women and kids which make up most of those detained.

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               wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               This is a part, a fairly large part, of what makes the problem so difficult.  "Most" of the people entering the US illegally are most certainly NOT fleeing persecution.  If nothing else, as the large majority are entering through Mexico, any persecution stopped once they traded their home country for Mexico; Mexico is not "persecuting" them for anything but possibly being illegally in their country.

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               Live to Learnposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               Believing it and that being fact are not one in the same.

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         wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         When you are ready to give up your home to a mass of illegal aliens that have no regard for law then you have the to ask - ask - others to do the same.  Until then your faux "morality" is a farce.

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            My Esotericposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Mass? What mass?  Illegal aliens, other than trying to get to a country that won't kill them (one you want to send these kids back to), studies and common sense show, are more law-abiding than native born Americans.  It is a FACT.

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               wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               Some 310,000 people tried to cross the border illegally just last year, and another 140,000 were arrested in the interior.  I'd call that a "mass" of people, wouldn't you?  And without mentioning the other 10-30 million in the country.
               
               Mexico (the primary source for illegals) is trying to kill them?  This is news to me - how are they doing it?  Gas, bullets, what?  Is it it a formal government program, and if so when was it enacted?
               
               They are more law abiding than American citizens?  Even though they commit a crime every single day just by being here?  And another by working a job illegally?  And usually another by driving a car illegally?  And another by identity theft?  These are the people that are more law-abiding than Americans?  Don't make me laugh.

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   ahorsebackposted 5 years ago

   For liberals to conveniently  ignore ---
   Illegal Immigration is NOT just about the ideological differences between opposing parties   , It immediately goes to the costs of ;
   
   
   - Immediate needs of health care
   - Policing the encampments
   - Food , medicines , housing , transportation
   - Detainee education
   - Detainee day care costs
   - Unemployment costs
   - Law enforcement checks and border operations
   - Age , gender , gang , nationalities separations
   - Dealing with the criminal elements
   
   Costs ?
   -  Assorted sources 90 billion to 130  Billion Dollars per year in the U.S.
   
   California alone ; 
   
   

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