Why do people get angry about Christianity but not other religions?
Many get angry and hostile and the Christian premise that there is only one God.. Why? Christianity shares the promise of enternal life in heaven to all who choose Jesus. Why is that not appealing?
Why are some so angry about Christianity?No one cares how many gods Christianity proposes.
But they sometimes get angry when Christianity (as a religion) insists that everyone follow their canons and tenets. That everyone share their belief and accept their idea of how we should live. And that everyone accept their biblical beliefs even when they are at odds with what we know to be true.Kinda hyperbole to say no one cares. I know many don't care what do you think of Islam and their men going to heaven and getting many virgins. Where will the virgins come from.
Many turn people off because of their hypocrisy or need to make enemies of those who choose to not be Christians have you ever met a Christian you liked or respected?
More than I have non-Christians. Of course, I grew up in a Christian family and spent most of my life in conservative, highly Christian states so maybe that's not totally fair.
I don't hate anyone. But any conscious being that creates a place where everything has to kill something everyday to survive, that creates disease, suffering, pain, etc, is evil itself and cruel beyond belief.
On the other hand, if it wasn't created by a conscious god/being, it's just the way it is. No intent, no evil intent. Intent? then it can't be forgiven for all the suffering it caused and causes.
So I dislike most religions because they worship evil and pretend its good.I have never seen anyone get angry over the premise that there is just one God.
Geez! I felt that way when I lived in Arkansas. When I came to California, I realized that I grew up in the Bible belt. One god is not a universal belief.
I think people get angry about every religion at one time or another. But the question wasn’t about Islam or any of the other faiths.
Christianity is about control and power / the threat of eternal damnation keeps the followers in line while the Priests molest their little boys. All of their holidays are stolen and repurposed from Norse and Celtic pagan practices. The Crusades and Inquisition and the Salem Witch trials all demonstrating the savagery of so-called men of God killing and torturing non-Christians. The Bible is a selected set of scrolls meant to only tell the story they want their followers to hear. The real historical record of earth demonstrates a timeline millions of years old, however Christianity teaches something altogether different. The church has more secrets than a high end call girl. The whole ‘Jesus died for you’ is a nice story, but an obvious falsehood as are all those fake miracles - the existence of dragons is easier to swallow than a carpenter walking on water. And the list goes on and on - people see through the lie but because the church is so entrenched in politics, they are able to keep this mythical control over the people who follow blindly like baby lambs being led to slaughter.
Anyone can make promises about anything they want, but until something better comes along, the sheep will keep following their shepherd; right off a cliff. Show me any evidence of this eternal life in a magical realm in the sky or a burning world of brimstone. You cannot. It’s not appealing because it defies logic.Ralph, do you deny the existence of a spiritual world? What do you believe happens to us when we die. This is something we will all face. Is it an ending or a beginning? Do you agree what happens after death is beyond the realm of scientific explanation?
Thank you for your comments. Too much for me to dissect and respond to. I think a lot of it is misinformation; however, it is a reason people would be angry.
No it’s not misinformation - it’s history Diane
Mike - I was answering the presented question based on historical records, not my own spiritual beliefsDo you think a talk about a religion should involve spiritual beliefs? I agree with your historical record. I would also submit there is nothing in the Bible that commands its followers to do such things. This is the doing of man. I'm sure we could have a long and involved discussion concerning the concept of free will and its impact on Christianity as well as history around the world.
Matthew 28:19-20
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Different people interpret this in different ways I assume."Different people interpret this in different ways I assume"
I think you are absolutely correct. This is the way with many passages in the Bible.
I asked a street preacher once if he could tell me the language that the New Testament was written in. He said Hebrew, I told him yes for the Old Testament...but no for the New Testament. When he couldn't answer I told him he needs to know the Bible a bit better before talking to non-believers about it. He got angry at me.
People openly bash on Christians because there are no Christian suicide bombers.
Yeah, how many people are out there screaming Jesus hu akbar, before they go on a murdering rampage?
Not any more. But the Inquisition was something like this and it wasn't that long ago.
You've got to stretch back a couple hundred years to make that argument. How about we take a look at the body count in, say, the last five years, by people who were actually born in our lifetime?
The same principle though, religious fanatics.
I started to ask you what % of Christians you consider fanatics. Actually, it is impossible to tell because of the number of people who call themselves Christians period. The so-called white evangelicals helped elect our presiednt; however, when researchers analyzed it, they determined that white evangelicals included people who use the label even though they are not subscribe to Biblical teachings.
I consider anyone who says believes in what I believe else you will be damned as a fanatic. If they think it and don't say it, that's different. If they try to force their views on you, that's a fanatic.
This is the definition: a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.
You seriously going to compare actual Muslim violence that exists in epidemic proportions and is a real threat to people, to Christian fanatics who might say mean things to you that you don't agree with?
No, I am not comparing them. All I am saying is there are people who do crazy things in the name of religion and no religion is clean in this sense. All the major religions of the world have this feather in their hat. Buddhists joined that club too very recently. All this was done in the name of religion and because God would be happy if they did these things.
I said there are no Christian suicide bombers and you refuted me using assault rifles as an example. What did you mean by that?
This among many others:
On 16 July 2001, Peter James Knight walked into the East Melbourne Fertility Clinic, a private abortion provider, carrying a rifle and other weapons including 16 litres of kerosene, three lighters, torches, 30 gags, and a handwritten note that read "We regret to advise that as a result of a fatal accident involving some members of staff, we have been forced to cancel all appointments today". Knight later stated that he intended to massacre everyone in the clinic, and attack all Melbourne abortion clinics. He developed home made mouth gags and door jambs to restrain all patients and staff inside a clinic while he doused them with the kerosene.[23] He shot 44-year-old Stephen Gordon Rogers, a security guard, in the chest, killing him. Staff and clients overpowered him soon after. He intended to massacre the 15 staff and 26 patients at the clinic by burning them alive.
According to psychiatrist Don Sendipathy, Knight interpreted the Bible in his own unique way and believed in his own brand of Christianity. He believed in a pro-life Crusade.
Take a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
It's not on the same scale, but you cannot say it is absent in Christianity. The same data can be found for all other major organised religions too.Citing an isolated incident to describe modern day Christianity is embracing a patently false ideology and is intellectually dishonest. The vast majority of Christianity does not support this ideology unlike the fanatically driven world of the Middle East where extremist ideology dominates every day life. So yes, I can and I do say that it is absent in Christianity.
It's the same holy book that was followed. If the book did not change, why have the methods? Did God change his mind in these few years? I am sure the people in that time also said they were enlightened by the Holy Spirit, just as people today say they are enlightened and hence go out and do this and that. If it's a good purpose, that's fine, but not everyone is a saint.
God has changed his mind a great many times, beginning with creation in 7 days. From not eating pork to allowing women in the clergy to allowing gay marriage, God changes his mind every time knowledge or morals advance.
According to the priesthood of organized religion.? Which book are you talking about? Which methods? BTW, the Bible refers to all Christians as saints..
You guys may carry on if you choose to do so. The conversation is not productive and it's hard for me to keep up with changing positions.
Stick a fork in me! I'm done!Definitely not productive, facts have been provided and ignored on the premise that not all act in a certain way. Have a nice weekend.
Are they ignored, rejected or simply not understood? Never forget that a strong belief includes a nearly unshakable opinion that answers are already in hand; that anything said that does not agree with those answers is automatically wrong.
I would say ignored because it was agreed that some people do those (negative) things, but a true Christian does not. The points were therefore understood but ignored and further answers were sought.
I think that's at least a part of it. Ignored as being obviously fallacious - a TRUE Christian doesn't do those things and thus what was said is irrelevant. And some answers were likely obviously wrong anyway, even without the "true Christian" thing.
To answer the original question, Christianity has several denominations and I would say that it can be competitive
Denominations are often a distraction. A Christian has a 1:1 relationship with Christ. there is no requirement to join a specific group that has their own rules and regulations.
In my opinion, deep down, most people can sense that they have a void in their life. They may be able to temporarily fill it with material things, sex, money, drugs, etc., but overall the void is still there and in the end they feel lonely. I am a Christian, and no one is ever going to convince me that Jesus "isn't real" or that He was never resurrected. Before I submitted my life to Christ, I would get angry at Christianity and it was because I honestly could tell that the genuine Christians I was hanging around had something real. I eventually began to want what they had. What did they have? Jesus. Eternal life. I do think, just like every religion, there are Christians who can be extremely rude when sharing the gospel and often time do it out of anger. I believe this is the opposite of what God intended, but I do think it also explains furthermore why some people immediately have a negative reaction to Christianity. There are a lot of people who really misconstrue what it means to have a relationship with Christ.
This is just my opinion. At the end of the day, it is our responsibility to share the gospel with people, but we cannot make anyone submit their life to Christ. We can only pray for them and show them love and kindness while allowing them to have questions about the faith.Praise God for your testimony. God does not want people to be forced or shamed. Believers must understand that and let His love shine through them (us).
Um, really. Try be Muslim or the people who were just murdered for being Jewish.
Would you elaborate please. Many Christians are killed for being Christians. If I know more about what you are saying, I might be able to comment..
I am surprised that the recent mass shooting in Pittsburgh escaped your attention. These things get a lot of news coverage. And well, the Holocaust I suspect you have heard of. Antisemitism alive and well in most countries and the examples are too numerous to even begin to recount.
For my part I am atheist and I see all religions getting a lot of hate, and some of their members giving it. It's a matter of perspective and what you do--or choose to--notice.I don't know why you would assume that I was unaware of the killings in Pittsburgh.. There have been many such killings. I have studied the holocaust and have friends whose ancestors were holocaust survivors.. There are many cruel and senseless murders done by vicious, hateful people - many in the name of religion. Many Christians are killed by hateful people also. Dylan Roof killed 9 Black parishioners after watching them pray in Charlotte, South Carolina.
You are talking about the actions of people.. I'm not talking about what individuals do. We are human and all have a sin nature.. Jesus does not want us to kill anyone.
I'm trying to understand your point with regard to the questions asked.The original question:
Many get angry and hostile and the Christian premise that there is only one God.. Why? Christianity shares the promise of enternal life in heaven to all who choose Jesus. Why is that not appealing?
Why are some so angry about Christianity?
My thoughts based on my own beliefs and through conversations between people of different religions and nationalities:
Many get angry and hostile and the Christian premise that there is only one God.. Why?
I do not think so. The majority of the world's population is Christian and Muslim (on paper) and in both cases, there is just one God. I'd like some clarification on who you refer to here. Which people get angry because Christians say there is just one God. Do you mean that there is just one God and that God is the one we believe in and not the other one? If that's what you're saying yes, they do get angry and Christians get angry that they think that there is just one God too.
Christianity shares the promise of eternal life in heaven to all who choose Jesus. Why is that not appealing?
Because many people choose to have a decent and fruitful life here on Earth, because they are sure and have proof that they are living right now. These people can't see what's on the other side of the veil. Also, this life is techincally a part of the eternal life, because an eternity is from the time you are born until ... (forever). So you are already living your eternal life, and most people choose to live it.
Why are some so angry about Christianity?
Mostly because Christians think they are above the rest as explained in my other replies.The original question:
Many get angry and hostile and the Christian premise that there is only one God.. Why? Christianity shares the promise of enternal life in heaven to all who choose Jesus. Why is that not appealing?
Why are some so angry about Christianity?
My thoughts based on my own beliefs and through conversations between people of different religions and nationalities:
Many get angry and hostile and the Christian premise that there is only one God.. Why?
I do not think so. The majority of the world's population is Christian and Muslim (on paper) and in both cases, there is just one God. I'd like some clarification on who you refer to here.
Response: If you will look at comments on articles about Christianity, you can see curse words, hostility and often hate. Here on the forum, I see exchanges go on where people do the same.. It doesn't happen to me personally because if I see a person is becoming hostile I stop communicating with the.
Lobo Which people get angry because Christians say there is just one God. Do you mean that there is just one God and that God is the one we believe in and not the other one? If that's what you're saying yes, they do get angry and Christians get angry that they think that there is just one God too.
Response: I don't get angry. I accept it as fact.. When people want to discuss it, I am always willing. When people don't, I don't force the conversation. I post quite a few forums.. When I post under Christianity, I expect people to want to talk about Christianity. When I post under politics, then I am able to talk about politics without mention God; however, my character and thoughts influence what I say always..
Lobo: Because many people choose to have a decent and fruitful life here on Earth, because they are sure and have proof that they are living right now. These people can't see what's on the other side of the veil. Also, this life is techincally a part of the eternal life, because an eternity is from the time you are born until ... (forever). So you are already living your eternal life, and most people choose to live it.
Response: Eternity means forever. If life ends at death, it is not eternal. If it goes on after death, where? I get the answer from the Bible. I totally believe it.. I'm not mad when others don't.
Lobo: Mostly because Christians think they are above the rest as explained in my other replies.
Response: There are Christians that you probably deal with on a daily basis and don't know because they don't discuss it. Wilderness, I hope you are reading this. Be honest!!! DO I act like I am above other people?????It's 3 AM and I am about to go to bed. I am a Christian too. And you ask why do people get angry at Christians, you did not say why do people get angry at you. So why are you saying this:
There are Christians that you probably deal with on a daily basis and don't know because they don't discuss it. Wilderness, I hope you are reading this. Be honest!!! DO I act like I am above other people?????
It seems like you are one of those people who take things personally even when they are not to be. I can see now why you think people, in general, are angry at Christians, no they are not. They are angry at those people who push the faith when they don't want to hear it. It's the sad truth that the worst of the lot are the most vocal.
Regarding the other responses, I'll get back to you tomorrow. And do not take it personally. You asked a general question and I answered it from my experiences as a Christian but with the open-mindedness to see it from a non-believer's point of view. I do believe, but like I said many times in this thread, I believe in this: "love one another as I have loved you", the rest falls in place. When you follow that one commandment, you follow the rest.
For my part I am atheist and I see all religions getting a lot of hate, and some of their members giving it. It's a matter of perspective and what you do--or choose to--notice.
This reply by psycheskinner is in line with what I'm saying. There is hatred, but it goes all ways and what you see and don't see or ignore (maybe subconsciously) is different from what someone else sees.
That is more the product of media information offered in a highly Christian country than anything else.
I dare say there are more Muslims killed, world wide, every day for being the wrong type of Muslim (modern vs old style or radical) than there are Christians killed in a year for being Christian. We just don't hear about it because our media doesn't report on it. Similarly, Jews have, and continue to, suffer violence because of their religion more than Christians do.
We just saw a mass murder of Jews, because they were Jewish, but when was the last time in this country that Christians were killed because they were Christian? There have been church shootings, but there is no indication it is a religious vendetta; they were just a "captive audience" for an easy kill.Dylan Roof thought he would start a race war. The guy in Kentucky was not able to get into the church in Kentucky so he went to the Kroger store and killed two people.
26 killed in a church in Texas https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/texas-church-shooting
In the Middle East, they are killed for being Christians..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecuti … ns_by_ISIL
Anyway, that goes off on a tangent. Widnerness, you know how I like to stay on the topic.
Why do people get angry about Christianity is the topic?And I answered that question. I will add that some people get angry because Christians do not believe in the One True God or his Prophet (just ask them - they will explain it to you, perhaps with a club). God has told them to kill people that do not believe in Him.
Others may hate Christians because Christians have killed their family or neighbors. And finally, as I mentioned earlier, lots of people are really, really tired of having Christianity shoved in their face, tired of being forced to live as Christians demand they do. (Think prohibition, blue laws, gay marriage, creationism myth taught in schools as an accepted scientific theory, abortion rights, etc.)W: And I answered that question. I will add that some people get angry because Christians do not believe in the One True God or his Prophet (just ask them - they will explain it to you, perhaps with a club). God has told them to kill people that do not believe in Him.
Response: You are speaking of Islam (God and his prophet). God does not want people to be killed.. He loves them and wants them to spend eternity with Him. There have been religious wars that were not about God but about power..They used God as an excuse..
W: Others may hate Christians because Christians have killed their family or neighbors.
Response: I hope it is not a frequent occurence. I don't hear of many sane people killing others and saying they are Christian.
W: And finally, as I mentioned earlier, lots of people are really, really tired of having Christianity shoved in their face, tired of being forced to live as Christians demand they do. (Think prohibition, blue laws, gay marriage, creationism myth taught in schools as an accepted scientific theory, abortion rights, etc.)
Response: People may try to force that on you but it is not God. He wants each person to have a personal relationship with Him.. He doesn't want anyone to be forced. Again, these are people who are trying to get you to live like they live (and they have their own skeletons in the closets). Remember those married GOP antiabortionists that pay for their girlfriend's abortions. Again, that is people perpetrating. That is not God. Christianity is about Christ."God does not want people to be killed."
Not according to radical Muslims. And not according to the old testament, either. (Hint: the insistence that Christians, and only Christians, have all the answers about what God is, does and wants does not breed love of Christianity. Many people find it objectionable and learn to dislike the religion as a result).
"He doesn't want anyone to be forced."
That message needs spread to the millions of Christians that will pass laws, whenever possible, forcing others to obey what they see as edicts from their god. Such as forbidding gay marriage or teaching creationism to young, impressionable, children.
Diane, you may not like the answers to your question, but to deny them because "They aren't real Christians" or "MY God, the true Christian one, doesn't do that" is not real productive. You recognize that these things are done in the name of Christianity; you must also recognize that it is a cause of anger against Christianity. Which is what you asked.Exactly, the last paragraph here. All the answers on this thread were in response to what was asked and not in response to the ideal situation.
Wilderness, the subject is not radical Muslims. You mention the old testament. Do you know the new testament? In Matthew 5:43-48, Jesus does away with "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. It says...
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
If Christians go against this...should you question their understanding of Christianity? I believe so. I've studied the Bible in Latin, Greek and different forms of English. The Bible is not the problem. The problem is people believing they have an understanding of it when they don't.Thank you Readmikenow! You concisely stated what I should have said. People get bits and pieces, correct or incorrect, and then all of them add together to make a big mess.
No offense to you, Mike, any more than to Diane, but there are as many interpretations of biblical scripture as there are people. If some of those interpretations include a different concept than what you have, who am I to say they are wrong? Who are YOU to say they are wrong?
Wilderness, you are right. There are many different interpretations of the Bible. That is why we have various types of Catholics as well as Protestant religions. I've made an effort to attend every type of Christian church service available. I've visited many different denominations in the United States and around the world. I've been to Roman Catholic services in Rome, Orthodox services in the Ukraine, Methodists, Baptist, Assembly God even a Mormon service once and others. One of the most inspirational churches I've been to was actually in Kenya. Who am I to say a someone who claims to be a Christian is wrong? You would have to elaborate on that more.
A Christian is anyone who believes in Christ. Anything deeper than that is the Chruch they believe (or rather follow).
"The Bible is not the problem. The problem is people believing they have an understanding of it when they don't."
The point was that YOUR understanding is no more "right" than any other understanding. One has only to look at the hundreds or thousands of times we see something along the lines of "Well, TRUE Christians don't <fill in the blank>" - the implicit message is that "I know what God wants and they don't" and that just cannot be shown to be true. The bible was written in a different language and, more importantly, in a different cultural matrix than we can ever know - NO ONE knows exactly what was meant with many of those words.
And that doesn't even touch on the places where the "facts" presented are known to be false!"The point was that YOUR understanding is no more "right" than any other understanding."
It is right for me and those who agree with me. Others are not able to prove to me that I'm wrong. I've taken on many challengers in this area.
"facts" presented are known to be false!"
I have no idea what you are talking about."It is right for me and those who agree with me. Others are not able to prove to me that I'm wrong. I've taken on many challengers in this area. "
That's kind of the point; you can't prove them wrong, either!Wilderness, you are right. I thought about what you said and my main question is...why does it matter?
Simply because people don't believe in something the way I do doesn't make my belief wrong.
Can I prove them wrong? That is a very complicated question. It gets into comprehending certain aspects of the language and more.
When some people provide me what they consider proof, I will dismiss. It. This is the same thing with people I provide what I think as proof.
To me, it doesn't matter if I can show people they are wrong about anything. They would have to come to that understanding on their own terms. It doesn't change my view on things.
This is something that can be applied to religion, politics, sports and even choosing a restaurant and more.
At one time in my life, I worked for a Muslim from Pakistan. A brilliant man. We had some very enlightening exchanges on religion. I believe many people do not know the Christian religion or Christians, many do not know the Muslim religion or Muslims. So, at the end of it, I was still a Christian, he was still a Muslim. We still couldn't agree on religion or sports. He was one of those Dallas Cowboy fans. We did share a love for pastry from a certain spot near where we worked and would often meet there. We both liked the same type of movies as well."I thought about what you said and my main question is...why does it matter?"
It matters because, for far too many of every religion, they feel a responsibility, an order from their god, to impose that belief onto others. To force others to follow what they think their god wants. It can be to kill infidels, it can be to prevent gays from marrying.
It matters because far too many think that if they can only get their religion as governmental policy or even as government, all will be well. That a theocracy is wonderful...if only it is one agreeing with their belief.
We went from having confidence in what you believe to talking about thocracies? Huh?
What you speak of has nothing to do with a personal belief system.
It has to do with power and control. It is the same with political beliefs. far too many think if THEY can only get their political beliefs as policy all will be well.
Those who want power and control will do so by any means at their disposal. This includes bastardizing religion. That's what evil people have done for centuries.
This is why it's important to know what you believe and why. It is also the reason people's ignorance of their beliefs is so dangerous. Evil people in the world can use a person's ignorance of their holy books against them.
The problem is not religion...it is with the evil people who choose to use the ignorance of faith to gain power and control."Religion" is a belief system in a supernatural power, usually one that has given instructions on how to live.
"Religion" is an organization promoting their belief onto others; an organized set of rules and actions designed to control how others behave and to provide a living to those at the top of the hierarchy.
The terms are often used interchangeably, but as you point out they are not the same at all. The problem is with the second definition and how it is used. Which is where the first definition ends up as it grows large enough, with enough followers, to turn into the second.
Yes, this. This is what I agree with, everything you've said here. But, again you ask about Christians in general. And people are not angry at Christians who do not interfere. Most people do not know the difference, they see us all as the same when in fact they are angry at the Christians who use Gods name for their benefit and to push their agenda.
How can it be otherwise? Those people declare their works in the name of God, or Christ, and declare themselves to be Christians (which they are). The man in the street, finding that his beer is now prohibited as the "Christian thing to do", is unhappy with ALL Christians. Not just the ones that declared the law was God's will.
You oversimplify. When I say "people", I don't mean all people. I think Wilderness and I have discussed "some", "all", "most" on other forums. We already discussed people walking into churches to kill Christians. There are places in the Middle East where people have to hide that they are Christians. Many Christians are jailed or killed. So to say that (many) people are not angry at Christians totally disregards this.
We often make judgments abouot other people based on ourselves. When I was young, I was hospitalized often, had surgeries, a bowel obstruction, etc. People I worked with thought I was lying. Their attitude seemed to be, "You must not be sick because I feel fine!"
Googling hostility against Christians will support what I am saying.
Why So Much Hatred Against Christians in America Today?
https://townhall.com/columnists/michael … y-n2406028
New Survey Shows America Becoming Increasingly Hostile to Christianity
https://californiafamily.org/2017/new-s … istianity/This is why:
Conservative Christians are targeted because of their opposition to LGBT activism and abortion. Bible-believing Christians are commonly compared to ISIS, accused of wanting to establish a Taliban-type theocracy, and called bigots and haters and Nazis.
Not as bad as a Taliban style theocracy or the Nazis, but taking away the freedom of individuals is a cause for hate. I can see why they do that.As a Christian, what Scriptures do you use to guide your beliefs?
Love one another as I have loved you.
Do onto others as you would have done onto you.Those are known by most people, Christian and non-Christian. How that love is activated is what's important.
There are people that are really difficult to love and many who who want to kill us. We are too love them too. It doesn't sound logical but God's wisdom is foolishiness to man.Exactly, Christianity isn't special. They are basic tenants of life. I do not follow any scripture word for word.
You do not have to love people who hate you, you should ignore them and defend yourself without causing harm to them imo. Treat them as you would want them to treat you.You have defined Christianity for yourself. Many people do that. Christianity was designed by God and spelled out extensively in the Bible which is how he communicates to us. It goes back to what I said about cars. You have a right to say that if you want to but why would you want to be counted among Christians? Sleeping in the garage does not make you a car. Why can't you just say you are a good person? What is the significance of being a Christian to you?
I was born in a Christian family that's all. I do not want to be a part of this in your face doctrine that you have defined for yourself. And by you, I do not mean you specifically.
Do you know of the many gospels that are left out from the Bible, and the Chuch has removed and modified a lot that you read. Have you ever been to Rome? You should visit the Vatican.What specifically has been left out? Are you speaking of the apocryphal books? What do you think they would add?
How about all the books and writings of the very early gnostics?
The Epistle of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas were quite popular contenders while the book of Revelation almost got left out. There definitely were many more.
As I recall, there were far more "books" left out of the bible than were included. We have to remember that these were not written to be a part of a bible - that the people that compiled the bible picked and chose between many writings, choosing the ones that fitted what they wanted the bible to say.
Wilderness, you know everyone is writing a book on 45. Some are considered more factual or serious than others. I'm not a scholar. When we go to school, we learn based on research done by scholars and/or historians that can validate what they document.
From scholars:
How the Church Recognized What Was Scripture
The influence of the Holy Spirit in the hearts and minds of the early Christians was the primary factor influencing what particular documents the individual churches began to use as inspired and authoritative Scripture. But there were also some objective and rational standards:
(1) Apostolic origin (from the Apostles). From the very beginning, Christians “devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching” (Acts 2:42). Originally, their teaching was spread orally, but once this teaching was written down, churches obtained copies of these documents as soon as they could and used them as the very Word of God for their beliefs and practice. (2) Orthodoxy. The churches rejected out of hand any document that did not conform to the collection of essential teachings that all of the churches accepted. (3) Usage. In the third and fourth centuries, no book was regarded as Scripture unless it had been widely used by the churches from the beginning. Of course, this latter standard rules out the possibility that any document can or should be added to the Bible now.
So, when it comes to considering whether a newly discovered document like the Gospel of Judas should be made part of the Bible, it fails on every ground. Although it claims to be from Judas (one of the Twelve), there are good historical reasons for concluding that it did not (not least of which is that Judas hung himself shortly after he betrayed Jesus, who was then crucified; Matt. 27:5). Furthermore, the teaching of this book is gnostic and contradicts most essential Christian doctrines. And, finally, it was never used by the church and was actually condemned.
There are no other books that should be considered as part of the Bible. Even if, theoretically, an authentic letter from the apostle Paul should be discovered, as awesome as such a discovery might be, we would not consider making it part of the Bible. It was simply not used by all the churches over time.
What we currently possess in our Bibles is the completed canon of Scripture. It is exactly as God intended it and is the living, active, and powerful Word of God.
https://www.biola.edu/blogs/good-book-b … -the-bible"The influence of the Holy Spirit in the hearts and minds of the early Christians was the primary factor influencing what particular documents the individual churches began to use as inspired and authoritative Scripture."
This is a great statement...if one assumes that the sinners at Nicea were imbued with the holy spirit. We have nothing but their word that that was true while they went about the political business of forming a book for their religion, and assumptions are a dime a dozen.
"The churches rejected out of hand any document that did not conform to the collection of essential teachings that all of the churches accepted."
Except that Christianity was as fragmented then as it is now: there were no teachings that all churches accepted.
"And, finally, it was never used by the church and was actually condemned."
As was every other writing that biblical compilers did not approve of as useful in expanding their belief system. This is hardly a useful method of deciding that they picked any and all writings that should have been chosen.
"It is exactly as God intended it and is the living, active, and powerful Word of God."
Except that no one today has any way at all of knowing that it actually is the Word of God. Mormons say the same thing with the book of Mormon, the Muslims say the same thing with the Koran - both radically different from the bible.
Trusting the bible to actually be the word of God is fine...for those that already believe it to be true. For anyone else it is no different and no better than other religious works; in some ways it is far worse for we KNOW where the Koran and the Book of Mormon came from but have no idea whether anything in the bible was ever written as it is in the bible. The originals have never been found and it is likely that most of scripture never had an original. Certainly the old testament was not written as it all happened, for no one could write then.
So the significance of Epistle of Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas is? How do you know Revelations was almost left out?
It's not the matter of the significance of the books that were left out, it's a matter of what if one of the others were left out?
Regarding Revelation check out:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_R … al_history
https://forums.catholic.com/t/was-the-b … n/391349/2
As Wilderness rightly points out, none of the scripture and letters were written with an intent to be collected under one book. This was done by an authority to have better control over what would be preached.I received the answers to the posted questions. There is no need to pull different sources to further discuss.
I'm not trying to be rude. These "what about" discussions take a lot of time and are pointless.. Above is way to much info for me to focus in on without a purpose. My belief is unshakeable and I'm sure yours is also.And that is as it should be. If you are happy in your belief, and do not attempt to force others into the same belief either overtly or covertly, then there can be no harm in it and could be a lot of good.
Oversimplified from your perspective. There are people who want to hear/see, not only Christians, but people. Christians go to nursing homes, skid row, 3rd world contries and sites of a lot of need, tragedy, povery and dispair. We take needed supplies, teach them to provide for themselves, share love and the Gospel. People have the option of saying,"No, I don't want it.."
People are becoming Christians every day.. We have people walk in off the street because they have need. We have video testimonies of people who come from lives of prison, prostitution, perversion and most anything you can think of.. They have tried everything else and decide they need something more and it lands them at the feet of Jesus..
Not everyone does it. Obviously, not a large percentage of people do it. If someone approaches you, just tell them you don't want to hear it. They should apologize for troubling you and turn away. It will not keep them from being available to whomever wants to listen.
Like I said, I put all of my Christian based discussions under Christianity so a person knows what to expect. Some people decide to comment for whatever reason. I don't mind."If someone approaches you, just tell them you don't want to hear it. They should apologize for troubling you and turn away."
In line with the OP question, that's fine, but some Christians do NOT turn away. Instead they turn up the volume.And they are wrong when they do it. The best evangelism is friendship evangelism. Approaching so rangers has to be done with great sensitivity knowing some don't want to be bothered.
They are wrong. That doesn't make the anger disappear, and it doesn't stop the "victim" from putting the blame on the religion rather than the person. They are always "representing" Christianity, after all.
That is stereotyping which is not good. Wilderness, you are sounding like the president! :-) In life, there are annoyances from all sides. As we grow up, we learn to deal with it. If you blame everyone, it is what you choose to do. I don't blame all Muslims because some choose to be terrorists. I don't blame all white people because some choose to be KKK. You know better!
"Conservative Christians are targeted because of their opposition to LGBT activism and abortion. Bible-believing Christians are commonly compared to ISIS, accused of wanting to establish a Taliban-type theocracy, and called bigots and haters and Nazis."
I would say these are ignorant thoughts that are thought by ignorant people. Christians and ISIS? Are you serious? How stupid. "Taliban-type theocracy?" This is record setting ignorance. Bigots, haters. I would say the people who aay such things deserve the label of "hater."
This proves my point about the ignorance of Christianity. It also shows extreme ignorance of Taliban, Nazi, ISIS and more.The first amendment was written specifically to ensure that no "Taliban-type theocracy" could be imposed by Christian sects in the new world. It was, and remains, a very real concern.
Various colonies had very different ideas on how to worship, particularly the Puritans. Smaller colonies were very concerned, and should have been, that larger ones would absorb them and force, for example, Puritan beliefs onto them.
You will notice that the constitution does not actually prohibit states (colonies) from establishing a religion (because it was already done) - that only the federal govt. is banned from doing so. Again, this was to prevent a majority of the new country from forcing their beliefs onto the minority, smaller, states.
This is not what I said, I Googled it to see what others say. And yes, ignorant people of course. ISIS is a cult and not a religion so there should be no comparison.
Your link agrees with what I said:
"Second, the hatred is a result of the culture wars, in which conservative Christians are targeted because of their opposition to LGBT activism and abortion. "
If Christians did not try to force their beliefs in LGBT activism and abortion, via law, onto others there would be less hatred.
"Fourth, the darkness hates the light, and this is an age-old battle that will continue until Jesus returns."
If Christians were no so in-your-face, showing the "light" to everyone within earshot, there would be less hatred.
"To the extent we stand for sexual purity and biblical morality, and to the extent we preach Jesus as the only true way to God, we will be mocked and scorned."
If Christians did not insist the entire public agree with their "sexual purity and biblical morality" there would not be so much hatred.You didn't answer the part about Donald Trump. When voting is done, Christians vote based on what their beliefs are like anyone else. When you vote for Donald Trump, you are voting for him to put those people in place who execute their duties based on their beliefs.
Donald Trump?? I missed that completely.
But the basic theory behind a democracy is that people will vote what is best for the country. Yet according to you, and I agree with you, Christians will vote what they think God wants, and do it for all people rather than just for themselves. What is good for the country is set aside in favor of what they think God has demanded.
This is a problem when the root of our philosophy, freedom of choice and life, is torn away because Christians think God wants what the people do not...and will force it onto others whenever possible. Once again, that answers your question in the OP as to why people are turning against Christians. Should Christians decide to keep their religion to themselves, behind their own doors rather than applicable to the entire public, most of that will quickly vanish.The point is that our fatih is central to our functioning, thought processing, and interactions. When we have something to vote on, I vote based on my values.
Keeping our faith inside our homes is a violation of our freedom. Matthew 28:19-20 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Non-Christians exercise their rights outside the home. Why shouldn't non-Christians. If a man has a right to dress as a woman and go into a ladies' bathroom. Doesn't a mother have the right to be concerned about her child going into the bathroom and getting molested?"When we have something to vote on, I vote based on my values."
And your "values" - the instructions you have decided as coming from your god - have a higher priority than the foundations and philosophy of our country. The very foundations that allow you to vote that way. That's what I said - I'm really having trouble understanding why that is so hard go grasp.
Again, the very scripture, and the implied interpretation of it, points to exactly what I said. Christians are all too often in-your-face about converting the world to Christianity and forcing their belief onto everyone they can. The result is that anger against Christianity that you ask about. That you feel God has ordered you to do just that does NOT mean that people won't be angry when you do it.
"Doesn't a mother have the right to be concerned about her child going into the bathroom and getting molested?"
Diane, I am not talking about actual concerns for yourself or your family. I'm speaking about the demands that society follow Christian tenets for no other reason than that you think God wants them to. It cannot possibly hurt your daughter if two gays marry, yet Christians have fought that tooth and toenail. It cannot hurt you or anyone else if stores are open or sell alcohol on Sunday, but Christians see it as an edict from God, so no one can do that.
And these things bring anger with them. Keep your beliefs to yourself (Christians in general, not you personally) and the anger will go away. Don't marry your own sex. Don't shop on Sunday. Keep pushing everyone to conform to your beliefs and, just as radical Muslims produce anger against them, so will Christians produce anger against themselves.
May I just add that when you follow that bible quote you are increasing the anger against Christianity...and that it will eventually be followed by action, action against Christianity as a whole, if it becomes onerous enough. Perhaps the best path is to quietly live the life you think is proper, letting your light shine that way rather than by passing laws or complaining when others do not live your lifestyle. In the long run I believe it would be more effective as it does not produce that anger.“Doesn't a mother have the right to be concerned about her child going into the bathroom and getting molested?”
Sure, but that’s much more likely to happen in a church at the hands of a trusted authority, so that particular concern seems a bit misguided.
Brought up a Catholic, with family and neighbours strictly Catholic in a country with Christianity being the minority, I can say I have met my fair share of people from all over the religious spectrum (Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, and Bahai come to mind). In terms of religion it is one of the most diverse countries (if not the most diverse based on the number of religions that exist here for centuries, quite a few, even Christianity took root here, one of the 12 disciples traveled to, preached and died {was martyred} here). I'm referring to India, not many people know that it was one of the first countries with a big Christian population. It did not spread across the world from here as there was no Christian kingdom and no ruler did really go overseas other than one in all documented history if what I learned in school is accurate.
Now to reply to some of the points you've brought up. It's totally my opinion based on my experiences. I don't want to get into an argument or a debate, just sharing a message from another point of view.
No religion does not determine if I respect or like someone it's just a label that definess some of the thoughts and actions of a person. The way they behave is what determines if I respect them. Anyone who follows any of their "holy books" a 100% I dislike because there are tenants in all faiths that go against what most of us as modern Christians or as 21st-century humans believe in. They go against equality and some basic human rights.
One thing I can say though, not a single soul who does not believe in a God comes to mind if I think of people I do not respect. What I'm trying to say is: education and not literacy is what makes people respectable and atheists are usually very educated.
Lastly, to answer the original question. I can't speak for the US, but South Asia and western Europe (countries that I've lived in), no one gets angry that Christianity professes the existence of just one God. People do get angry over the fact that staunch Christians think they are better than the rest (of the religions) and only they deserve respect. No it's not the only religion that thinks they are the only ones who are right, and yes people do get angry at other religions for the exact same reason. It definitely is not one-sided anger, nope.
There would be a lot less violence in the world if Religion was just kept to oneself and you did not know the faith of the person walking beside you. But the world would not be where it is today without religion, it's one of the few things that brought people together. People need to have a common cause to be able to work towards a goal. Religion was this cause back in the day. Today we have so many other and better causes to work towards. Just some food for thought.lobo said: People do get angry over the fact that staunch Christians think they are better than the rest (of the religions) and only they deserve respect.
response: Christians wanting "respect" is a major problem. Jesus came to serve and be a servant. He wants us to serve others. There are many Scriptures on humility. I don't know of any Scriptures saying we should be respected.
These address how we should be humble. Don't expect you to read. It just shows people are being hypocrites if they expect to be respected.
Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.
Ephesians 4:2 | NIV |
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves.
Philippians 2:3 | NIV |
When pride comes, then comes disgrace,
but with humility comes wisdom.
Proverbs 11:2 | NIV |
Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.
Romans 12:16 | NIV |
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4:10 | NIV |
Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight.
1 Peter 3:3-4 | NIV |
Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
Colossians 3:12 | NIV |
Pride brings a person low,
but the lowly in spirit gain honor.
Proverbs 29:23 | NIV |
Humility is the fear of the Lord;
its wages are riches and honor and life.
Proverbs 22:4 | NIV |
Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time.
1 Peter 5:6 | NIV |
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 | NIV |
Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.
James 3:13 | NIV |
Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
Matthew 11:29-30 | NIV |
Before a downfall the heart is haughty,
but humility comes before honor.
Proverbs 18:12 | NIV |
Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.
1 Peter 3:8 | NIV |
Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, “Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all.”
Mark 9:35 | NIV |
God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him.
1 Corinthians 1:28-29 | NIV |
So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
Matthew 6:2 | NIV |
He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8 | NIV |
Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.
Colossians 3:18-19 | NIV |
Wisdom’s instruction is to fear the Lord,
and humility comes before honor.
Proverbs 15:33 | NIV |
Good and upright is the Lord;
therefore he instructs sinners in his ways.
He guides the humble in what is right
and teaches them his way.
Psalm 25:8-9 | NIV |
You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.
Galatians 5:13 | NIV |
Then he said to them, “Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. For it is the one who is least among you all who is the greatest.”
Luke 9:48 | NIV |
To our God and Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Philippians 4:20 | NIV |You understand me wrong. By staunch I mean people who follow every word. Cherry picking quotes does not help. Most of the people I would call 'good' christians, follow these, but there are others such as:
Deuteronomy 12:29-31
“When the Lord your God cuts off before you the nations whom you go in to dispossess, and you dispossess them and dwell in their land, take care that you be not ensnared to follow them, after they have been destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire about their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods?—that I also may do the same.’ You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.
Is Christmas not the festival that celebrates the Winter Solstice
Is all saints day and all souls day not a result of Halloween and the day the dead walk among us?
Most Bible scholars know where these church holidays originate. I'm not against it, I love Christmas time and just last year I attended mass on all souls day. I'm just pointing out some hypocrisy that exists. These holidays were formed by learning how the nations served other Gods and incorporated their beliefs into ours so that they would accept our God. I know that these dates are not mentioned in the Bible, but most Christians do not know their Bible and those who do cherry pick stuff to make it suit their beliefs.
Also, do we follow the old testament or just the new testament? According to me a Christian is a follower of Christ and should live by the only commandant Jesus gave us: love one another as I have loved you.
No scripture that I know of asks for respect, but it is a well-known fact that Christians and followers of most other religions on the planet think that they are the best and they are better than the rest. This is what I meant when I used the word respect.
Yes, there is hatred against Christians in many parts of the world, I know, I've been there more than you have if you live in the US. But I also know that there is hatred against other religions and on a Global level, there's more hatred towards a few other communities.
I agree with most of your points- except for your view that religion has brought people together. Perhaps it has done soon a local level but it has been the reason behind a great deal conflict and a justification for wars and genocide.
Personally, I don’t care about what other people choose to believe as long as they are decent, moral, ethical and law- abiding - don’t try to impose their religious beliefs on me. We are a long time dead, so why not live in the present instead of pondering about an unknowable future?Excuse typos - the result of writing on my iPad!
Ah you misunderstood what I meant. You should read the book "Sapiens A Brief History of Humankind" which is a best seller. Bringing people together does not always mean it's bringing people together for a good cause. If you believe that your king is doing the best for your belief system, you would go be willing to fight alongside and not oppose him. This is what led to most of the genocides. No ruler would be able to do this had the people not supported him. There is no such thing as a one-man army.
In Germany: 3 times preachers came to the student dorm to convert me. I'm Indian so I played dumb and didn't say I was a Catholic, I acted like I had no clue and then I corrected him in what he said, he opens his phone and looks at his Bible and unapolgetically goes off on a tangent. These were not Catholics of Lutherians, they were Methodists. But to everyone out there they are basically Christians and looking to convert and condemn others.
In Norway: Walking on the street in Oslo, some random guy (not a priest) but professing the faith to tourists comes to me. Says Hare Krishna to me and starts talking about how I am doomed and that I should follow Christ.
Had I not been a Christian myself (on paper) and had I not the knowledge of what the religion actually preaches "love one another as I have loved you", I'm pretty sure I would begin to hate the religion too.LOL When working on a remodel of a Mormon church, I was conversing with one of the church members as we watched their new spire being lifted into place. Asked if I was "saved", I replied that "No, I guess not" and was told "Well, I was a heathen once myself!". To be fair, I really don't think the old gentleman understood just how derogatory and offensive the statement was, but still...
And in Las Vegas I was standing outside the Bellagio, waiting for the water show when some people set up a sound system on the sidewalk. Big (as in 3' tall) speakers, powerful amplifier and a microphone and some whacko began exhorting everyone to join Christ. That was the end of quiet enjoyment of the fountain!
I don’t think that your theory is correct at all. I think it’s probably a matter of perspective.
Yes, Christians are sometimes killed in various places around the world. But so are Muslims. So are Buddhists. And on and on. Some people use their religion as a basis to hurt people that are not of the same religion, regardless of what it may be.
I think that perhaps being a Christian yourself you’re more prone to noticing violence against Christians. It’s likely more broadcast here in the west as well in comparison to terrorism against Muslims on the other side of the world.I think people get angry because mossy were raised in am environment that was Christian. Everyone has an idea of what it means to be Christian. The loudest among Christians rarely reflect the ideal of weekday we think of as Christianity.
I think most angry are upset because they believe in the ideal and felt first ostracized because those who don't seem to have hijacked the term.
This ' personal relationship' b.s. is just the tip of the iceberg of the animosity created by people who claim to speak for God, in direct contrast to the spirit of the message.
And the standard retort of 'Jesus said we'd be persecuted' when someone objects to some lunacy just fans the flames.- Hxprofposted 5 years ago
0Diane, Christians have, as a whole, for most of this country's history, sought to tell others OUTSIDE our faith, how to live. Then to boot, they see our hypocrisy. Once I realized this some years ago, it made an incredible difference in my walk.
It doesn't matter that there are Christians who aren't hypocrites, because what they see are multitudes of Christians pointing their fingers at others, at gays for example, telling them "you're going to hell". Here's a great example: Ted Haggard. A man who for years had been teaching that homosexuality is a sin, then is caught with a male prostitute. Christians rallied around him saying, "Christians are forgiven, not perfect", but that doesn't make sense to non believers who've been poked at for a long time. Honestly, Ted Haggard had no business being in that kind of a leadership position until he'd gotten cleaned up, but that's another topic. Diane,
I believe hatred of Christians is based on many things. Lack of understanding is a huge one. It is also caused by people having a bad experience in a church as a child or in another way. I would say our changing culture also plays a role in it. Few people realize evil does find its way into the church and causes destruction. The Bible is very complicated. I've studied it for years and still only know and understand a fraction of what is in it. I've read the Koran and even the Vedas of the Hindu religion. I've read the Jewish Tanakh and Talmud. I've even read the Buddhist holy book the Pali Canon. You would be surprised at the many similarities. I would say for all the negative things said about Christians and Christianity, there are a superior number of good things. Has anybody heard of the Catholic charities and how they help people? All over the world Christians are helping people in bad situations. We don't know about it because drawing attention to your good works is not something a true Christian does.You are correct Mike! The doctor that was infected with ebola in Africa was with Doctors without Borders. They set up hospitals in dangerous places, including Iraq and Iran to help victims of civil unrest and wars. There are bad apples and people who do wrong things.. Those who do good things far outnumber those who do bad things. I don't know of any atheist groups that help with hurricane, fire or flood relief. For some reason I don't meet any that seem to be happy.
The Red Cross may have helped among many other organisations. Yes, Christian missionaries do some of the greatest work, this does not imply there aren't others or atheist groups who do this. Quite a few atheists work with the red-cross and others.
I would like to point out that the Red Cross is not a Christian organization. Their symbol was based on the Swiss flag. The Salvation Army is close. I think the point is you won't find a group such as "Atheists for Disaster Relief" operating. A group dedicated to atheists trying to make the world a better place based on their atheist beliefs. Atheists have no holy book, nothing to guide them, they can only follow or condemn others. We have atheists in my extended family. I've had some interesting conversations.
Yes, I know that the Red Cross is not a Christian organisation, in fact, that was the point I was making.
Atheists do not usually band together to form organisations with the term Athiest in it, because that would mean they base their life on the principle of not following a God. But this is just the term they use to speak to people who believe and when asked do you believe in a certain religion.
There is no real group of Atheists formed for the sake of being atheists, if they are they still hold the principles of religion dear and are basically rebelling and are not really non-believers, somewhat agnostic.
A simple example: Say we had the option to breathe in either Oxygen or Sulphur and it were a choice. Some people would call themselves oxy something and others would be Sul something. But since we all breathe oxygen we do not say Oxygen breathers relief oxygen. In the same way, atheists do not have to put in the word atheist when they decide to help.
So when Atheists choose to help, they form an organisation and any like-minded people would join. The same way not all Christians are missionaries helping out.You are right. Christians SHOULD, if they follow the scriptures, be actively engaged in some type ministry. It could be as small as helping at a food bank or even something as large as starting a charity and more. I believe there are few TRUE atheists. Most of the ones I've met are angry at all religion for a variety of reasons. Saying they're an atheist is a psychological way to punish what has caused their anger. I have met some people I would call True atheists. Some were from China. They did not care about my Christian beliefs. They did not believe in it. If I talked with them about it, they would be respectful and tell me they did not agree with me but wished me will with my Christianity. They had NO belief in God or religion and were comfortable with it. They had a very practical approach to life. I could see them helping people based on their personal belief helping people is necessary for the betterment of their society. We did get along.
"I believe there are few TRUE atheists."
Why? Perhaps you have a different definition of what an atheist is?From the American Atheists website.
"Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods."
https://www.atheists.org/activism/resou … t-atheism/Unfortunately modern or "new atheism" is a fully blown political movement. A hundred or more years ago it was just a disbelief in God. Today it has an organized agenda with an attempt at philosophy.
By denouncing all religions the new atheists are causing cultural genocide amongst indigenous religions.
This is the reason they focus just on christianity: to obsfucate their cultural genocide practices.
https://hubpages.com/religion-philosoph … -Hypocrisy
? This seems to indicate that Christians only help within the scope of the church. That is not true. I addressed this earlier.
Which part of this reply makes you think I meant this? Not all Christians help out as missionaries. There are many ways to help and people of all religions and no-faith help in these ways too.
I didn't understand why atheists don't make organized efforts to feed the poor, help with emergency relief, and do other things to make sure the less fortunate and those with emergency needs are cared for. I think your point was that they don't need to organize. If I'm wrong, please correct me. Many situations are so massive and critical that organized, long term assistance is make sure the situation is alleviated.
Yes, you understood wrong. Athiests do not separate based on Religion because to them it would be best if Religion did not exist.
So if an atheist forms a charity, they do so by forming a charity without using the name of any religion or saint. Other people could join in too. Atheists do make organized efforts, as humans not as Christians or Muslims or some other religion they just don't advertise as being non-believers. Why would they? Unlike theists, religion is not a thing that defines them.
Check this out: https://ieet.org/index.php/IEET2/more/p … er20111125So the only thing atheist have in common is not believing in god. No set of ethics, morals, character traits or values.
The billionaire atheist that gives generously does not do so because he/she is an athiest.. It is done because they have compassion. Compassion is a spiritual condition. There are billionaire Christian philanthropists also: Hobby Lobby owner Green, Wal-Mart's Walton, Chick-fil-a Truett, etc.
It doesn't matter how much you give in dollars and cents. The person who gives $5 of their $20 is more generous than the one who gives $100K of billions. It's all relative..
Anyway, I didn't intend to go down this rabbit hole. The point was anger and hostility. I could be wrong but I sense some hostility in your comments. If I'm wrong, please forgive me.Wait. If that person with $20 doesn't need it to live on, does that make his more valuable than the one that has a million but only gives 100K...because he requires a heart transplant costing 900K?
In other words, are you setting yourself to determine who needs how much for mental and physical well-being?
But you are right in that there is no set atheistic set of morals or ethics, values or characteristic traits. Any more than there is for believers: Muslims do not believe the same as Buddhists who do not believe the same as Christians. It even varies from one congregation to another in the same Christian sect or even within a single congregation.I tried to present the comparison without referring to the Bible. I based my comparison on this:
The Lesson of the widow's mite is presented in the Synoptic Gospels (Mark 12:41-44, Luke 21:1-4), in which Jesus is teaching at the Temple in Jerusalem. The Gospel of Mark specifies that two mites (Greek lepta) are together worth a quadrans, the smallest Roman coin.
Point: We are not all the same and don't have the same amount of wealth. In the parable, the widow gave all she had - say $20. All she had means she had no more money. The 900K transplant ... is not part of the comparison. The guy with a million dollars assuredly has medical insurance.
Believers absolute have a set of values to live by. Because you speak about Christianity and don't know what the Bible says it is really difficult to discuss what our values should be.. We fall short but should be striving to get better every day..
Matthew 22:36-40 New International Version (NIV)
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”It is just a matter of how much one has, then, without any concern as to how much they need? That hardly seems reasonable...unless it is I who gets to decide need vs want. Not you, not the one with money, not the one that has none - just me. Then it might be reasonable, yes?
Are your values the same as those of a radical Muslim? A Buddhist? Are they even the same as every person in the church building you go to (assuming you do)? Or do you tip a glass of wine some days while other members of your church think it is sinful?People should not judge each other. The point is a matter of the heart. God knows everything. The issue is between each of us and God - that's the personal relationship.
Why do you want to pursue this? I can only answer based on God's Word. That is what you said you don't want to hear.Because the root of it is in your insinuation that if one does not believe in your god, with your beliefs, they are not good people. In the insinuation that atheists, without that belief in your god, have no compassion and do not help others as they should. Bottom line is that the assumption that Christians, at least Christians that share you beliefs are somehow "better" than other people, and that simply is not true. That attitude breeds anger.
"People should not judge each other." Yet there is no other way to take your statement that the rich do not donate as much as they should, now is there? That judgement, too, breeds anger.Wilderness, the whole point of Christianity is that we are all sinners and need a Savior. We are not saved by our own righteousness. The Bible says that. Romans 3:23 English Standard Version (ESV)
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
I know I don't have to ask you to be honest. Do you think I act like I think I am better than ??? whomever..First, bear in mind that I do not know you, and any judgement here is tenuous at best.
Diane, from your demeanor the answer is "No". But from the words you have posted here the answer is "Yes. You speak as though you (because of your belief) are better than those that are not".
I believe the first is more accurate, and I believe that you do not mean what your words have said. But it is what is actually said, not what might be meant, that raises anger. You asked where that anger comes from, not understanding why Christians are attacked, and I believe that: 1) some comes from actual attacks on others way of life by Christianity and 2) some comes from unintentional "down-putting" by well meaning Christians that mean no harm at all. That is understandable: you understand what God, supreme definer of right and wrong, wants and do your best to lead a good, godly life while non-believers do not. Some may also come from ignorance; I'm not sure that you truly understand what "atheist" means to those that wear the label. But understanding these things does not make some of your statements any more palatable. Not really.
(As an example, I once had a Mormon tell me I was a "heathen" but not to worry; he was one once too. I'm positive he meant no offense, but the statement WAS offensive! It was a little difficult NOT to be offended even though I knew it was unintentional.)
No offense intended, and I certainly hope none taken. An honest answer to your question.
No hostility at wrong, like I told you I am Christian even if you think it's different from yours. I have no anger against Christians, but you asked an initial question and I am trying to answer that. I as a Christian (may not be the same as you) am willing to see this from another persons point of view and understand why people (not the smartest people in most cases, I hate generalization of any kind) have anger against Christians.
I am just trying to point this out. Also, religion is what brings together a set of ethics, morals, and character. So Atheists who are all individuals cannot have the same ethics etc unless they follow a particular teaching. If they did they would not be atheists. All I am trying to say to you through this is that you cannot say atheists are not happy nor that they do not help, just because they don't band together (and leave out theists from their charities).
There have been many tangents around here. You have been provided with quite a few reasons as to why people have this anger both by fellow Christians and others. You argue that this is not right, etc. However, this was not the question asked, you never asked if this was a right thing to do, it was more on the lines of why do they have this anger. All my replies were in line to bring this point across.
Also, that link was not to point out that the billionaires that donate. It was just to point out that atheists do donate, I am sure no survey group went to a neighbor of you or me to ask them if they donated 5 bucks of the 20 they had. But there are people of all kinds who do this and I have seen it first hand on the streets and educational institutions.
Just to add up, no hostility here, if there was I would not reply. I only participate on two or three threads on the topical forums and when I'm hostile I say it directly, I did that on one thread today where someone said killing with guns is okay because more people die in other ways. I'm pretty direct.It's interesting that you took the approach you took to the topic and then say you are a Christian taking the other side. At one point you said you had been a Christian but are now atheist.
Your comment here was very interesting: There would be a lot less violence in the world if Religion was just kept to oneself and you did not know the faith of the person walking beside you. But the world would not be where it is today without religion, it's one of the few things that brought people together. People need to have a common cause to be able to work towards a goal. Religion was this cause back in the day. Today we have so many other and better causes to work towards. Just some food for thought.
My comment: What do you mean "Today we have so many other and better causes to work toward.."? Other and better causes like what?You choose not to see, can't help you there. There is no other side. You asked a question. There is the view from another side, there is no side being taken.
I believe in the teachings of Christ, but I do not follow the way the church is set up today.
For starters, building a better world, countering global warming, fighting for equal rights, etc. I can go on and on. Religion was used to get subjects under control, we do not need that now, we have constitutions and laws for that.Thank you. Organized religion has never been about bringing people to God; it has always been a method of controlling people and fattening the pocketbooks of the priesthood.
You said there is no other side. A few posts back you said this:
No hostility at wrong, like I told you I am Christian even if you think it's different from yours. I have no anger against Christians, but you asked an initial question and I am trying to answer that. I as a Christian (may not be the same as you) am willing to see this from another persons point of view and understand why people (not the smartest people in most cases, I hate generalization of any kind) have anger against Christians.
You talked about taking the other person's side.Read it again, the part you copied too. Point of view and taking sides is completely different.
The point is that it is not an atheist organization. Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, atheists, agnostics, witches, etc. They don't discriminate so you can't consider this an effort piloted by atheiss. How many atheists are working for the Red Cross? We don't know.
I know 6 people working for the red cross, all of them are atheists. I am also sure there are many Christians working for them. I explained in another reply why true atheists will not form an organization under the banner of being an atheist. I also know many missionaries and have a second cousin who is one. The principle of my school, a Jesuit, met with the Pope yesterday and he does great work. So this is not an attack of any kind, it's just to explain (another reply) why atheists don't do charity under a particular banner.
Respect, yes. Accept as truth and reality, no.
lobobrandon yes, a Christian is someone who believes in Christ. But what about that belief? Do they believe that He died to save their sins? Or do they say they're Christian (aka a belief in Christ) yet believe that they should build walls instead of bridges? Christianity is ALL about reading and proper understanding about the scriptures.
ps. I've lived in Italy and visited the Vatican many times. Catholics teach 'religion', not a belief in Christ. They also teach their people to believe that saints are Holy, as Christ is Holy, and that's incorrect. When Constantine put together the first Bible, it could possibly have been a means to 'control the population - HOWEVER (and that's a big however), when one has actually experienced the Holy Spirit first hand from reading the Bible and learning more and praying more, and one realizes what Jesus was actually trying to teach, all the nuances fall away and we begin to follow (and attempt to emulate) Jesus more and more, becoming better human beings - just as He intended.His teachings. A follower is someone who believes in what someone preaches not what he did. Let's not get into the whole Trump thing, because we all know what he is.
. "When Constantine put together the first Bible"
Constantine did not put together the first Bible. The first five books of the Bible are from the Jewish Torah. The first uniform Christian Doctrine was a result of the Council of Nicaea. That is what is the basis for the book we call the Bible today. The Council of Nicaea was called together by Constantine, but it was the Bishops, priests and others who determined what would be in the first Bible. Today, there are some Bibles that have books in them that some don't. One is the Book of Enoch and there are others.
https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/s … ule/nicea/Constantine never gave up being head of all region. It was part of his title. He had last say in what went in to the bible, you can bet your life on that. And trinity is a particularly Roman concept. Egyptians often melded two gods together as one. Rome did three. Jesus as god is definitely a Roman concept, not an original Christian one.
Slarty O'Brian...would like to invite you to join the one true religion which I found after a lifetime of intense research and esoteric study...the secret name (which must only be pronounced in times such as these) is (looks side to side...then leans in close)...Frisbeetarianism...we believe that when we die our soul flies up on the great Frisisisss garage roof and never returns...What a ya say?Want IN??
Many people are angry with Christianity because of three major reasons:
1) They don't want to appreciate there is God, a Supreme Being or an Intelligent Designer. What might be the reason? They don't want to be accountable for their actions or the realization there is someone who is watching over them. Also, they want to do what they can, when they can and not feel bad about it.
2) The Bible contains teachings, warnings and commands that make many people uncomfortable hearing about them. The world doesn't want to hear about abortion, fornication, adultery and other evils.
3) The world can't comprehend why a good God can allow injustice and evil to reign in the world. If God is good, why do people die of starvation. Can't he stop bad things from happening? If only people read the whole Bible, they would find the answer to the question why God can't do something about the bad things that are happening in the world.- Onusonusposted 4 years ago0
Leftists target Christianity because of its role in the founding of America. They want to convince people that The United States is an oppressive country from it's roots which are deeply connected to Judeo-Christian values. Which is why you will never see anybody forcing Muslims to bake a gay wedding cake, or coercing anybody of any other religion to do anything against their values. They would rather see a satanic display over a nativity scene at Christmas time. On and on it goes to use the so called separation of church and state against anything Christian and ignoring anything that any other religion does publicly.
Interesting? I've got to respond more when power is back on.
Onusonus-
I agree. Thank you for your opinions and helping to educate people.
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