Lost 5x More to COVID Stimulus Fraud Than Spent on Vaccine Development

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   GA Andersonposted 3 years ago

   Federal Government Lost 5x More to COVID Stimulus Fraud Than It Spent on Vaccine Development, New Report Reveals
   
   "When we finally have the full figures, total taxpayer money lost to fraud by the US federal government will likely be bigger than the entire economy of many small countries."
   
   "More than $200 billion of unemployment benefits distributed in the pandemic may have been pocketed by thieves, according to ID.me, a computer security service that 19 states — accounting for 75% of the national population — use to verify worker identities,” Yahoo Money reports. “That's more than triple the official government estimate of $63 billion based on the 10% pre-pandemic fraud rate.”
   
   To put that $200 billion figure in context, it is equivalent to $1,400 lost to fraud per federal taxpayer. (There goes your stimmy check!)"
   
   Source: FEE—Foundation for Economic Education
   
   Also: yaHoo Money
   
   *The first article had good links to the actual report and related supporting articles
   
   Yep, rush, rush, rush,let's just trust our government's explanations.
   
   I particularly liked the article's Milt Freidman quote:
   "Friedman outlined the four types of spending. You can spend your own money on yourself, someone else’s money on yourself, or your own money on someone else. Either way, you have at least some incentive to spend discerningly. However, there’s one other type of spending.
   
   “I can spend somebody else’s money on somebody else,” Friedman concluded. “And if I spend somebody else’s money on somebody else, I’m not concerned about how much it is, and I’m not concerned about what I get. And that’s government.”
   
   Hmm . . . that brings to mind certain criticisms against folks that weren't very supportive of the second stimulus package.
   
   GA

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      Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

      This is a very good example of what you get blanketing a problem. Our government likes to offer one big blanket fits all.   And this is a great example that clearly proves shows a great bit crazy quilt can have lots of big gaping holes in it.
      
      Would one not think this kind of repetitive failure at problem-solving is detrimental to American taxpayers? Make me wonder if the word SAFEGUARDS ever enters into the equation of those that produce these bills, and our Congress that votes on these flawed sure-to-fail bills.

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         Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

         True

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            Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

            And Joe is now ready to through a blanket of a bill for infrastructure. He is stuffing all the social programs he can in the infrastructure bill, and the bill is so large it would take months to read it. This is something that  I find really disgusting, many in Congress vote without knowing all that are in these bills. They get acquainted with a bill the same way the public does, from the media. It would seem media is actually making our laws.  Oh well. Many like to just stay snuggly under those blankets.

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               Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

               Unfortunately alot of what we say now, will fall on deaf ears. Until people get sick and tried of all the lies, lack of freedom, dark challenges of the economy and especially when people notice people dieing from the vaccines.

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                  peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                  Let's analyze what GA posted initially. Here is the title of his forum topic:
                  
                  "Federal Government Lost 5x More to COVID Stimulus Fraud Than It Spent on Vaccine Development, New Report Reveals."
                  
                  M -This makes it sound like a conclusive fact.  However this is what was really said:
                  
                  "When we finally have the full figures, total taxpayer money lost to fraud by the US federal government will likely be bigger than the entire economy of many small countries."
                  
                  M - So they don't have the full figures yet and they further state:
                  
                  "More than $200 billion of unemployment benefits distributed in the pandemic may have been pocketed by thieves, according to ID.me, a computer security service that 19 states — accounting for 75% of the
                  national population — use to verify worker identities,”
                  
                  M - The key phrase here is: "may have been pocketed by thieves, according to ID.me, a computer security service that 19 states — accounting for 75% of the national population — use to verify worker identities,”
                  
                  M - It states may have been pocketed by thieves.  There is nothing conclusive about the phrase "May Have"
                  
                  M - I did research on the security firm that is cited and they are a clearing house for people requiring security clearances, not a financial accounting firm. In addition, the Author of the article is an opinion editor for the website FEE.
                  
                  M - So you people get all excited by this article that is nothing more than an opinion piece that is stating this may happen, not that it has and it is not even fact, but it does fit your agenda of how you feel about Biden and his administration.
                  
                  Mike

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                     Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                     My agenda would not be any part of $6 trillion spending toward covid 19 that's  forced upon us. That's 2 trillion more than world war 2 making it dishonourable service, that solves nothing  It's mainly a waste of time following these disservice i political leaders too. These covid and its vaccines negatively affects everyone on this planet and time and time again being opposed imo is ignored or banned, like freedom of speech has died.
                     
                     This fraud maybe true or false. It's just another part or many very little parts of the mass hypnosis distractions from the State and centro Bankers taking people's power away from ourselves, family and our work for a living.
                     
                     World war 2 would have killed far greater in numbers of people yet, did not stop the entire world from functioning their lives. Covid world order game is most vicious cycle and trapped most of us have ever experienced . I can only change myself,  I am part idealist more importantly a realist. The biology of Covid is partly real, yet the psychological damage is far greater.

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                        peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        Castlepaloma:  I stated verifiable facts.  You stated your opinion.  Freedom of speech gives you that right. Nature follows the natural order of things.  Science tries to understand that and change it for our benefit. That is what the vaccine, masks and social distancing are about.
                        
                        You have a problem with Biden's 1.9 Trillion plan, but no problem with Trump's 1.5 Trilllion plan over 10 years.  Where did you get the idea that Biden's plan is costing 6 Trillion dollars?

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                           Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                           By Washington post.
                           The U.S. has thrown more than $6 trillion at the coronavirus crisis. That number could grow.
                           Between Congress and the Federal Reserve, the government has committed record levels to try to stop an economic calamity — with just limited success.
                           President Trump signed off on spending $2.35 trillion. And that amount doesn’t include the Federal Reserve’s efforts, which are harder to measure but seem likely to blow past the $4 trillion mark.
                           
                           My professional hardwork for decades of holistic living is not an anecdote some state. This holistic style and service is for humanity health worldwide also. Yet many nationalism types here think the Government and FDA is factual scientific and my facts of organic foods and medicine are not.
                           
                           I generally don't take life too seriously, humor is especially great medicine for recent worldwide maddness. Yet I'm most serious when I am joking about the covid world order. Also put a satire post out about the government and FDA top 10 best things.

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                     GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                     Oh lordy Mike. Your slip is showing. I can see the "you people" embroidered on the bottom.
                     
                     Let's analyze your response:
                     
                     Using your last thought to set the stage; you said "you people" as a reference to a group. I would guess you are referring to Republicans, conservatives, and Right-wingers. If that is wrong then what follows may also be wrong.
                     
                     The topic was simply presented for discussion. The title was from the article. The full title, (included), spoke to three entities; The Feds, Covid relief monies, and fraud. Of course, some readers will read the inference of the title to be a jab at Joe Biden. Is that what you did? Surely you saw the point of fraud directed at both stimulus programs in the article?
                     
                     The article clearly speaks to both pandemic administrations, Republican and Democrat. So maybe, the topic wasn't intended as a jab either. You just saw the title and dug into the article to support your perception of political bias.
                     
                     I will leave the rest of your clarifying thoughts where they are, because the OP wasn't intended to be a statement of facts.
                     
                     My view is that this is an indictment of both Congresses, and it was my intention to open a discussion about it.
                     
                     As for the claims, my instinct is that there are massive amounts of fraud involved in stimulus monies. Whether the author of the "opinion" piece turns out to right or wrong in the totals doesn't negate the contention of massive fraud. Or do you not think there were serious fraud issues in many of the programs?
                     
                     As a note, I didn't "get all excited" about this article because I could use it to jab at the Democrats. That was simply your unsupported assumption. I was going to be sternly jabbing at Congress, not an administration.
                     
                     Do you think we should bookmark this thread and revisit it down the road, just to see how it turns out?
                     
                     GA

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                        peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                        GA:  I was referring to the people in this thread who don't like what Biden is doing.  I apologize for not reading the Yahoo article which explains that the claim they are making is not only about Biden's spending policies, but Trump's as well.
                        
                        I'm just tired about how the right wing GOP is blocking Biden's every move, just like they did with Obama and I over reacted to what I was reading in the FEE article. I will try to do better next time. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.  It is in my make-up. That's how I learn.
                        
                        Mike

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                           Castlepalomaposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                           Presidents are worked as puppets each year. I,'m more of a Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy, freedom, emphasizing free association, freedom of choice, individualism and voluntary association.

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                           Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                           Mike, let me add my two cents.
                           
                           "M - So you people get all excited by this article that is nothing more than an opinion piece that is stating this may happen, not that it has and it is not even fact, but it does fit your agenda of how you feel about Biden and his administration."
                           
                           Is it fair to categorize an opposing group as "you people"?  It seems to me that you are not looking at others that post here as individuals. Many here appear to be very independent in regard to their views, not right or left but in the middle.
                           
                           I agree with you that the articles are thought-based, an individual author's opinion and the true facts are yet to come. 
                           
                           M --" I'm just tired about how the right wing GOP is blocking Biden's every move, just like they did with Obama and I over reacted to what I was reading in the FEE article. I will try to do better next time. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.  It is in my make-up. That's how I learn."
                           
                           At this point, it is your opinion that the "Right-wing GOP is blocking Bidens every move". In my book, Facts are not in your opinion...   
                           
                           So it does seem a bit hypocritical for you to point out a couple of articles as opinion, not as of yet factual in any respect, and turn around and say the Right-wing and GOP is blocking Biden's moves...
                           
                           And yes many went after Obama, as well as many here went after Trump. Not sure why Biden would not be fair game. Goose/Gander.
                           
                           In reality, history tells us we most likely will have gridlock in Congress blocking a president's agenda. However, thus far, we have two bills to judge by.
                           
                           The first --
                           Sponsor:    Rep. Smith, Adam [D-WA-9]   H.R.335 - To provide for an exception to a limitation against appointment of persons as Secretary of Defense within seven years of relief from active duty as a regular commissioned officer of the Armed Forces.
                           
                           Passed bipartisan --- Received in the Senate, read twice, considered, read the third time, and passed (under the order of 1/21/21, having achieved 60 votes in the affirmative) without amendment by Yea-Nay Vote. 69 - 27
                           
                           And the second bill ---  Biden signs a $1.9 trillion Covid relief bill.
                           Which was widely opposed by the Senate due to what they felt the bill had spending attached that had nothing to do with COVID.
                           
                           Perhaps we look at individual bills to come before labeling the
                           GOP is causing gridlock. 
                           
                           Do you feel it fair to consider a bill for what's in it, not for what party submitted it?  In my view I feel a bill needs to be considered for what's in it, how will it affect America or American.  I feel it ill-educated to just support a bill due to what political party offered it up.  It would seem the media has taken the privilege of pushing narratives on any given bill,  and the general public takes their opinion as the gold standard.  All bills are online, yes very long, but always worth having a look at.
                           
                           I read much of the last stimulus bill, it was so full of unnecessary spending not in any respect related to COVID or  COVID relief.
                           
                           I suggest you skim the bill to get a good perspective and the GOP's reasoning for voting against it.

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                              peoplepower73posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                              Sharlee:  Here is the way I see it right off the top of my head.  Both parties are for big spending.  It just depends on what side of the coin they are presenting.  The GOP is for corporations and big moneyed interest. They like big tax breaks and deregulation for big business.  The democrats are for the middle class, regulating business and enterprises against greed and fraud, and infrastructures improvements. 
                              
                              Both constructs require money in the trillions to full fill their agenda. Trump's agenda 1,5 trillion over 10 years and Biden's agenda 1,9 trillion.
                              
                              We are a debtor nation and it doesn't matter which party is in power.  All of their plans require big money in the trillions which adds to the national debt. It's just a matter of what they want to buy with their credit card..
                              
                              I just found out that Japan is the biggest loaner of money to the U.S, not China. It all boils down to supply side economics or demand side economics.  They all cost in the trillions.
                              
                              The examples that you gave as bipartisan support are small in the total picture of obstruction of the GOP over Biden's  plan.  His COVID relief bill passed the senate without any GOP votes because of invoking the  Special Reconciliation Act which only requires a simple majority.
                              
                              Mike

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                                 wildernessposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                                 "The GOP is for corporations and big moneyed interest. They like big tax breaks and deregulation for big business.  The democrats are for the middle class, regulating business and enterprises against greed and fraud, and infrastructures improvements. "
                                 
                                 It's interesting how two people can look at the same thing and come to such vastly different conclusions. 
                                 
                                 TheGOP like big tax breaks and deregulation for big business... as corporations are already double taxed on every dime of profit and pay the highest tax in the world, bringing their taxes down to something reasonable is "spending".  As corporations are allowed to provide jobs without undue regulation it is called "deregulation".
                                 
                                 The democrats are for the middle class, regulating business and enterprises against greed and fraud, and infrastructures improvements...but as a middle class citizen all my life I've never gotten a dime from government and find that there is an ever increasing regulation of my freedom to do as I please even as more and more of my taxes go toward providing for others.  As our infrastructure falls apart, Democrats are for fixing...nothing at all. 
                                 
                                 Bottom line; neither party has any interest in limiting spending and neither party is concerned at all about the middle class that pays for that spending.

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                                 Sharlee01posted 3 years agoin reply to this

                                 Trump did support an infrastructure bill that did not pass. The bill was clean of pork.  https://markets.businessinsider.com/new … 1029311680
                                 
                                 The bill that is presently being considered is full of problems due to non-infrastructure spending. Spending that could be addressed in another form of a bill.
                                 
                                 All credit cards are maxed at one point. China has become very powerful and is working to denature our dollar. Only time will tell if they successes. My money at this point would be on China. Most European countries have increased business with China, and more and more are joining the fold while the US worries about banning baseball games, and children's books being offensive, China is got its nose to the grindstone.WE have become a very foolish-looking Nation.
                                 
                                 China overtakes U.S. as Europe’s main trading partner for the first time
                                 https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/16/china-o … rtner.html
                                 
                                 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germ … SKBN27Y0K1
                                 
                                 
                                 Our Government is IMO floundering, unable to make sound decisions. And actually, it all boils down to the dollar.   https://www.exiap.com/forecasts/us-doll … ecast-2021
                                 
                                 The money we are printing and handing out has helped the dollar thus far. I think the country is in a very precarious situation prop up the dollar by printing money. Time will tell. The markets are good at this point many are getting all they can while the getting is good.
                                 
                                 So it's all and good to push wonderful social policies. But at this point, no one is watching the truly important things that keep a country solvent.
                                 
                                 And we have a media that keeps all in line with the new woke/cancel agenda, and just ignores the very big problems that are brewing.  It's almost shocking to see this phenomenon.
                                 
                                 I just posted a thread on Biden's first two months --- the facts are pretty scary in my opinion.

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                           GA Andersonposted 3 years agoin reply to this

                           I don't know any "facts" about the amount of fraud that occurred and is occurring, but I do recall news reports of multiple major flaws and frauds amounting to huge sums of money.
                           
                           From supposed Nigerian scams to documented prison inmate unemployment claims, the outline of the reality is there, it is just the depth we aren't sure of.
                           
                           My angst is directed at the lawmakers that pandered instead of doing their job—in either Congress. They were spending other people's money on other people and they didn't act responsibly. They acted in response to partisan motives. 
                           
                           But, as a nod to how close your first reaction was, I do hold the Democrats as more culpable, relative to their package, than the Republicans overall.
                           
                           GA

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