Why have Republicans Turned Against America's Military?
Why? I suggest because Donald Trump has. He started his administration surrounding himself by what he characterized as very strong men. Sooner or later he started realizing these generals cared more about America that they did about him. And what did Trump do? He went on the attack and started ridiculing them and they left, one by one until those guardrails were gone And he hasn't stopped. Now that he is gone, his Republican minions have picked up the gauntlet in attacking our military leadership. It got so bad at the Sept 29, 2021 House Armed Services "grilling" of Sec Def Austin, Chairman Joint Chief of Staff Gen Milley, and Gen McKenzie, head of Central Command, that Rep Liz Cheney had to apologize to the generals for her colleagues' despicable behaviour.
https://www.reuters.com/world/top-us-ge … 021-09-28/
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre … r-n1280355
Trump and the Trumplicans have been at war with the American military now for, what, 4 years now? When will it stop? Will real Americans finally turn these unAmericans out of office?Here is another relevant article
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/29/politics … index.htmlAgain Trump?
" Republican minions have picked up the gauntlet in attacking our military leadership."
"grilling" of Sec Def Austin, Chairman Joint Chief of Staff Gen Milley, and Gen McKenzie, head of Central Command, that Rep Liz Cheney had to apologize to the generals for her colleagues' despicable behaviour."
I saw both Republicans and Democrats ask us questions about the above-mentioned. Both sides asked very similar questions. So, not sure what you seem to have taken offense of. All three very much appeared to answer questions very honestly, and seem to concur with one another.
I came out very satisfied with both side's questions, a couple of Republicans did get bellicose. Hey, that's what's called politicking.
The hearings clarified who did what and when they did it, and how was making final decisions in the end. In my view, Sec Def Austin, Chairman Joint Chief of Staff Gen Milley, and Gen McKenzie did their job and carried out the orders as they were expected to do. They clearly would have handled the withdrawal differently. All they could do was give advice, it's not their fault all their advice was not taken.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/mille … withdrawal
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre … l-n1280230
"Trump and the Trumplicans have been at war with the American military now for, what, 4 years now?"
I disagree--- I have always found Republicans have very high regard for the Military, as well as for all forms of law enforcement.
I truly feel U.S. General Mark Milley, needed to answer questions about his calls to China that are in question. Not a fan of any Congressperson getting overzealous when asking questions, but both sides are more than guilty of that form of conduct. I would hope Milley's calls to China are investigated by Congress. Questions have been raised that require an investigation. The conversations have leaked, now we need answers., and he should have a forum to defend himself against recent media fodder.
No putting this cat back in the bag... No way.No, if you had read my links, you would have seen that some Republicans got down right mean and insulting. That is why on the House side, Liz Cheney had to apologize for them,
I didn't hear the House hearing, just read about it. I did listen to a lot of the Senate hearing and was embarrassed by some of the Republicans.
"I truly feel U.S. General Mark Milley, needed to answer questions about his calls to China that are in question. I would hope Milley's calls to China are investigated by Congress. " - I thought you watched/listened to both hearings. Didn't you hear him answer those questions? I certainly did.
Didn't you hear him say he informed Trump and his staff about these basically routine calls? So what is there to investigate? I guess you put it in the same category of the insignificant election fraud.
"I disagree--- I have always found Republicans have very high regard for the Military, as well as for all forms of law enforcement." - I did as well. But that was before the Trump era when Republicans stopped believing in America and now only believe in Trump.
Face it Donald Trump has destroyed EVERYTHING the Republican Party use to stand for.I did not need to read someone else's opinion in the case, as I said I watched most of the footage. So, I obtained my opinion first hand.
Again, I came out very satisfied with both side's questions, a couple of Republicans did get bellicose. Hey, that's what's called politicking. I did not in any respect feel anyone asked any questions that were inappropriate. These military men work for us...
" I thought you watched/listened to both hearings. Didn't you hear him answer those questions? I certainly did.
Didn't you hear him say he informed Trump and his staff about these basically routine calls?"
Trump has already denied he was notified of the two calls in question.
Both Ratcliffe, then the director of national intelligence, and Pompeo, then the secretary of state, have rebutted that they were in the loop regarding the calls. to China.
YES, I want an investigation in regards to who is telling the truth.
Milley or John Ratcliffe, then the director of national intelligence, and Pompeo, then the secretary of state. Both have given live statements on the matter...
https://denvergazette.com/news/former-t … 339a6.html
"Face it Donald Trump has destroyed EVERYTHING the Republican Party use to stand for."
That would be your view. I have the opinion he strengthen the party, woke them up to the reality that many, American's are done with both party's status quo. And it was about time... It is evident that the Republican party is stepping up to the plate... They are being very responsible as of late. Standing very strong against the Biden's agenda, and his Build Back Better bill"... I could not be more pleased. I feel they are keeping democracy alive, In the face of it being drowned out by the far-left ideologies."That would be your view. " - Is not just my view. It is clearly based on tons of observations and knowledge of what Republicans used to stand for but no longer do. How did Trump "strengthen" the Republican Party? All that is left of the Party is a bunch of conspiracy theory believing nut jobs like MTG, Gaitz, Johnson, McCarthy, Paul, etc. The Party has no soul because they sold it to Trump
' Is not just my view. It is clearly based on tons of observations and knowledge of what Republicans used to stand for but no longer do."
I am always somewhat bemused how you truly feel your opinion is the"last word", that if you believe, and say it it is just the truth... Whatever
Last I looked we had 214 Republican representatives in Congress.
I would worry more about the Democratic party as well as the Democratic president at this point. In my view -- they sure have skrewed up the county in record time...Yes, and most of those Republicans believe Trump didn't lose. There are a few true Republicans left - Liz Cheney and Kitzinger.
Problem is, Biden hasn't screwed up the country, in my opinion."Yes, and most of those Republicans believe Trump didn't lose."
Again compartmentalizing, apparently feeling your opinion is factual.
Your attitude, Seems odd at best in my view.
"Problem is, Biden hasn't screwed up the country, in my opinion."
And you have every right to it...
My view --- I will stick to reality, and recognize the factual problems that America is at this point experiencing, and consider how they came occurred, and are getting worse daily, and go unsolved. Actually most completely ignored by the current administration. I wonder what will come next due to poor decision-making by this president."Again compartmentalizing, apparently feeling your opinion is factual." I thought you said you read the polls. I just take the facts that are out there and make logical conclusions from them. When they are strong enough, I make a declarative statement.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/11/politics … index.html
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/0 … ons-435488
https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink … as-stolen/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mo … biden-won/
https://campaignlegal.org/update/compil … ction-lies
https://news.yahoo.com/poll-two-thirds- … 34695.html
Different time periods different sources all tell you why my claim is factual and not an opinion.A more current CNN poll --September 15, 2021 "And Republicans who support Trump continue to drive belief in the big lie that the 2020 election was stolen from him. Although there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election, 36% of Americans say that President Joe Biden did not legitimately get enough votes to win the presidency. That 36% includes 23% who falsely say there is solid evidence that Biden did not win, and 13% who say that is their suspicion only."
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/15/politics … index.html
"Roughly one-third of Americans believe that President Biden’s 2020 electoral victory was the result of widespread voter fraud, according to a new Monmouth University poll.
Thirty-two percent of respondents say fraud was the reason Biden won the presidential election, maintaining a trend that has taken hold over the past seven months.
In similar Monmouth polls conducted in November, January and March, the number of voters who believe that fraud cost former President Trump a second term in the White House has remained steady at 32 percent."https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/559402-one-third-of-americans-believe-biden-won-because-of-voter-fraud-poll
https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-instit … 62121.pdf/And you are proving my point that most Republicans think the election was a fraud why?
I was simply offering a couple of links that gave unbias information. I have no bone to pick, just was offering more info.
Just pointing out a couple of different stats. Very hard to converse with someone that thinks my motives are poor. As you see I in some respect did give you credit for your point.
Oh well...
I can't really answer your question without doing further research, but it brings to mind another that has been bothering me. Why have so many of our retired or discharged military gravitated to the Republican party, and after this disparaging of the military by the Trump party, are they still going to continue doing this?
When I was in the military I was an old-school fiscal Republican. It wasn't until social conservatives took over the party that I found more a more agreeable environment.
Because of what Republicans stereotypically used to stand for, it is natural for the military, the police, DOD civilians, and anybody else associated with "law and order" to lean heavily in that direction. I suspect most still do - as never Trumpers.
But it is clear military leadership, by and large, have rejected Trump and his authoritarian, undemocratic platform Rarely do retired generals and admirals talk bad about a president. Trump has turned that dynamic on its head and many formerly silent military have spoken their mind about Trump and his dysfunction.
Even at the hearings, the three amigos clearly laid a lot of the problems in Afghanistan on Trump at the same time they were telling the world that Biden did not do a good job in the withdrawal.
I find your discussions very interesting because of the extreme bias which you seem to have against Donald Trump, at the same time your gloss over everything that grandfather Joe Biden is doing. I am firm of the view he's not fit to be president and should be feeding fish in the pond with his grandchildren. h
He has no comprehension of how much damage he has done to America for the next 50 years with the chaotic retreat from Kabul. Yes, Trump was involved in the negotiations but I am pretty sure he would've backed out and taken the Taliban bull by the horns. As far as the American military is concerned they have not had a say in anything for the last many decades. If they had a say they would not have lost the wars in Afghanistan and Vietnam. Why Trump, even Biden has nothing but contempt for the military. However, I appreciate your views though I don't agree with them.I would have to assume you would accuse me of having extreme bias against - Putin, Xi, Hussain, Hitler, Un, Muduro, Assad, etc. The bias comes from the same place - observation (or in the case of Hitler, education). All of these men are evil.
I 100% agree... After listening to most of the Congressional hearings with Def Austin, Chairman Joint Chief of Staff Gen Milley, and Gen McKenzie, head of Central Command... I came away with the view Biden did not listen to his top military advice on how to pull out of Afghanistan. Now it leaves me very curious of "what If' he listened, would the pullout have been more successful. I was also pleased to see these men were not going to cover for Biden and take the sword.
It certainly appears Biden did not listen to Austin, Milley, or Gen McKenzie's advice IMO, this indicates once again, he has proven he does not make sound prudent decisions."It certainly appears Biden did not listen to Austin, Milley, or Gen McKenzie's advice IMO, this indicates once again, he has proven he does not make sound prudent decisions." - So, it is your position that what the military says should be followed to the letter, regardless of what other forces may be at play.
"Now it leaves me very curious of "what If' he listened, would the pullout have been more successful. " - I have no doubt it would have. If he had obeyed his military, then we would still be there, forever and ever (which, in my opinion is not a bad thing). You may not know this, but the military is paid to provide their opinions and assessments to the president and not to order him around. The president was elected to listen to them and many others and then make a decision. He did just that.. The fact that I don't agree with him is neither here nor there. He had a lot more information than I do."So, it is your position that what the military says should be followed to the letter, regardless of what other forces may be at play."
No, the buck stops with the president. He has every right to make all decisions. he did... It was more than apparent he felt he knew better than his military advisers. As I said they all were on the same page in regards to their advice to the president. It is my opinion this withdrawal was all Biden's -- the military did their very best to advise and carry out the president's orders the best they could. It is just my view the plan was very flawed, and that's all Biden. I came to that view after hearing the accounts from the congressional hearing. At this point, I feel my opinion is justified completely.
We still have American's left behind...You didn't answer the question that resulted from your comment - "So, it is your position that what the military says should be followed to the letter, regardless of what other forces may be at play."
"It is my opinion this withdrawal was all Biden's " - Really? LOL. How do ignore the fact that Trump is the one that ordered the withdrawal. [b]If saner minds hadn't interceded, there would have been no troops in Afghanistan prior to Biden's inauguration[/b[. How do you live with yourself by ignoring such reality? I don't deny that it has been Biden's goal forever to withdraw our forces from a never ending war his predecessors got us into. But I don't blind myself to the fact Trump was in the process of doing just that.
" It is just my view the plan was very flawed, and that's all Biden. " - I don't disagree with you - but not the "all" word. Given that Biden didn't decide to surge more forces like he should have, then, because of the hand Trump dealt him, the outcome was a forgone conclusion. I don't care what bad or good decisions Biden made, what ended up happening was investable, only the degree of badness was up in the air. You see, I believe in cause and effect, apparently you focus only on the effect."You didn't answer the question that resulted from your comment - "So, it is your position that what the military says should be followed to the letter, regardless of what other forces may be at play."
I did answer it ... I said NO...
No, the buck stops with the president. He has every right to make all decisions. he did... It was more than apparent he felt he knew better than his military advisers. As I said they all were on the same page in regards to their advice to the president. It is my opinion this withdrawal was all Biden's -- the military did their very best to advise and carry out the president's orders the best they could. It is just my view the plan was very flawed, and that's all Biden. I came to that view after hearing the accounts from the congressional hearing. At this point, I feel my opinion is justified completely.If your answer is NO, then why did you say ""It certainly appears Biden did not listen to Austin, Milley, or Gen McKenzie's advice IMO, this indicates once again, he has proven he does not make sound prudent decisions." ?
To restate your claim - Because Biden did not listen to Austin, Milley, or Gen McKenzie's advice therefore he does not make sound prudent decisions.
To restate your claim another way - Biden can make sound prudent decisions. only IF Biden Biden listens to Austin, Milley, or Gen McKenzie's advice
To me that is just like saying "... your position is that what the military says should be followed to the letter, regardless of what other forces may be at play."
Show me why what you said doesn't mean that.
And this "factual" claim from you It was more than apparent he felt he knew better than his military advisers. - Meaning 1) he doesn't know better than his military advisers EVEN IF he has other information they don't and 2) because the military advisers know better than the president then their advise must be followed else the president will make bad decisions.
BTW, am I quoting Trump correctly here “I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me,” and, because he loves the military so much “They [the generals] don’t know much because they’re not winning,” - WHY is it true when Trump says that out loud and not true for Biden?"To restate your claim - Because Biden did not listen to Austin, Milley, or Gen McKenzie's advice therefore he does not make sound prudent decisions."
Your question --- "So, it is your position that what the military says should be followed to the letter, regardless of what other forces may be at play."
I answered it with one word --- NO
I then added my opinion. It is the president's opinion to take advice or not. My opinion was he made the decision on his own, the advisers all confirmed they were on the same page. It was clearly an opinion that about Biden. It is my opinion this withdrawal was all Biden's -- the military did their very best to advise and carry out the president's orders the best they could. It is just my view the plan was very flawed, and that's all Biden. His plan failed miserably due to his own decision-making.IMO he made a very poor decision in regard to his withdrawal from Afghanistan. You are very aware in feel he is a confused man, that should not be making any decisions.
I don't care what Trump said, he is not the current president. In my opinion, he took advice from advisors and made very sound decisions. He
Never felt unsafe when he was in office --- never. I feel, Biden is not to be trusted to make any form of decision, he has proven it time after time."In my opinion, he took advice from advisors and made very sound decisions." - Since that statement is demonstrably false (hell, even Trump doesn't agree with you on that one), why should anybody take your opinions seriously? I will answer my own question - because your opinions propagate a narrative that is dangerous to the well being of this country and must be challenged!
"In my opinion, he took advice from advisors and made very sound decisions." - Since that statement is demonstrably false"
My opinion, what I witnessed. You claim it false, not sure your opinion is more important than mine?
It is so apparent you are very set in your opinions, and that's OK. I think it wise we don't converse. It's hard to go back and forth with someone that can't be open or at best be respectful of other's thoughts.
I always try to just provide my thoughts, and be respectful of others.
I guess I need to converse with those that more share my opinions. I can't get accustomed to getting very personal, and accusatory.
I am sure you may mean well... But, it is very frustrating having you assume you have the right to say --- I am dangerous to the well-being of this country and must be challenged!
This is so crazy... It tells me time to walk away."My opinion, what I witnessed. You claim it false, not sure your opinion is more important than mine? " - Mine is not an opinion, though - it is based on facts. There are so many stories of Trump ignoring advice, including quotes from Trump himself saying just that he doesn't need advisers because he is a "stable genius", that it is not even funny. Many of your opinions seem to be based on wishful thinking? And as I said earlier, the narrative that you support and defend is dangerous to this country and needs to be challenged at every opportunity.
I have prior to this comment shared that I have no faith nor do I trust Biden's ability to problem solve, to make prudent decisions. --- especially in foreign affairs. His poor foreign policy recommendations long precede him. Here are a few that are well documented.
1--- “I’m getting sick and tired of hearing about morality, our moral obligation,” Joe Biden said in 1975. “There’s a point where you are incapable of meeting moral obligations that exist worldwide.” At the time, he was arguing against U.S. aid to Cambodia. But he could just as easily have said the same about his decision this year to end the American presence in Afghanistan. His very latest and greatest disaster.
2- In 1975, Biden opposed giving aid to the South Vietnamese government during its war against the North, ensuring the victory of a brutal regime and causing a mass exodus of refugees.
3- In 1991, Biden opposed the Gulf War, one of the most successful military campaigns in American history. Not only did he later regret his congressional vote, but in 1998, he criticized George H. W. Bush for not deposing Saddam Hussein, calling that decision a “fundamental mistake.”
4-In 2003, Biden supported the Iraq War—another congressional vote he later regretted.
5- In 2007, he opposed President George W. Bush’s new counterinsurgency strategy and surge in troops in Iraq, calling it a “tragic mistake.” In fact, the surge led to stunning progress, including dramatic drops in civilian deaths and sectarian violence.
6- In December 2011, President Barack Obama and Vice President Biden withdrew America’s much-scaled-down troop presence in Iraq; the former had declared Iraq to be “sovereign, stable, and self-reliant,” and the latter had predicted that Iraq “could be one of the great achievements of this administration.” Their decision sent Iraq spiraling into sectarian violence and civil war, allowing Iran to expand its influence and opening the way for the rise of the jihadist group ISIS.
7- According to Obama’s memoir A Promised Land, Biden had advised the former president to take more time before launching the raid that killed Osama bin Laden.
8- Ten years ago, Biden said in an interview that “the Taliban per se is not our enemy.” He added, “If, in fact, the Taliban is able to collapse the existing government, which is cooperating with us in keeping the bad guys from being able to do damage to us, then that becomes a problem for us.” Indeed.
I feel my opinion of Biden's foreign-policy record speaks volumes... These very examples show something very obvious. They show a man who behaves as if he knows much more than he actually does. A man that shows himself far too confident in his own judgment in the face of contrary advice from experts. In my view, the overcompensating for an intellectual inferiority complex. He has a long history of plagiarism, lying about his academic achievements, and many many things he need not have embellished on. For example, he lied about his first wife's death. Anf then this --.At least three times, the former vice president has told a tall tale about being arrested in South Africa. Four Pinocchios! https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics … e-mandela/
He seems to lie just to hear himself lie.
I don't feel Biden is qualified to make decisions in any respect. In regard to Afghanistan, he clearly did not consider Military advice, he had the legal right as president to have the final word and give the orders. He is just not intelligent enough to make a prudent decision in my view. He has proven this time after time.
There is nothing to be gained by beating this dead horse. You have a different opinion of Biden. Mine is set in cement... He has the country failing on so many counts... Makes me wonder how much worse can it get before he leaves office. What next..."1--- “I’m getting sick and tired of hearing about morality, our moral obligation,” Joe Biden said in 1975. " - 1) I thought you snubbed history and 2) what was the context of that statement?
SURPRISE! — he was very much against the idea of refugees from post-war Vietnam and Cambodia entering America.
As the North Vietnamese Army and Viet Cong swept south toward Saigon in 1975, thousands of South Vietnamese who had allied with the U.S. were in danger of recriminations from the Communist regime.
The context --- In April 1975, the remaining U.S. soldiers in the country numbered in the thousands. Ford argued that, as the last troops were removed from the country, the U.S. should evacuate the South Vietnamese who had helped the U.S. during the war too. “The United States has had a long tradition of opening its doors to immigrants of all countries,” Ford said. “We felt that a number of these South Vietnamese had been very loyal to the United States and deserved an opportunity to live in freedom.”
"Biden objected to this sentiment and called for a meeting between the president and the Senate Foreign Relations Committee so he could voice his objections to Ford’s request for funding these efforts. The meeting took place on April 14, 1975. Then-Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who led the meeting, said that “the total list of the people endangered in Vietnam is over a million” and that “the irreducible list is 174,000.”
Kissinger said there were “Vietnamese to whom we have an obligation,” but Biden said: “I will vote for any amount for getting the Americans out. I don’t want it mixed with getting the Vietnamese out.” (People that had helped us in the war)
Biden said: “I do not believe the United States has an obligation, moral or otherwise, to evacuate foreign nationals. … The United States has no obligation to evacuate one, or 100,001, South Vietnamese.”
https://www.yahoo.com/now/afghanistan-d … 00504.html
Like I said his history proceeds him... He is more than willing to leave Afghanistan citizens that helped us in the war effort In Afghanistan.
He has not even addressed America's left behind to the
American people. He is ignoring the problem, not addressing it as he has with every problem he has encountered. This is my view.
It well appears he has the same attitude today as he did in 1975.
Then there is this --Biden in 2010 reportedly told a US diplomat 'f--- that' when asked if the US should stay in Afghanistan to prevent a humanitarian crisis."
"By the time Biden became vice president in 2009, the disastrous war in Iraq, the endemic corruption of the Afghan government, and the return of the Taliban had made him a deep skeptic of the American commitment. He became the Obama administration’s strongest voice for getting out of Afghanistan. In 2010, he told Richard Holbrooke, Obama’s special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, that the U.S. had to leave Afghanistan regardless of the consequences for women or anyone else. According to Holbrooke’s diary, when he asked about American obligations to Afghans like the girl in the Kabul school, Biden replied with a history lesson from the final U.S. withdrawal from Southeast Asia in 1973: “F-- k that, we don’t have to worry about that. We did it in Vietnam, Nixon and Kissinger got away with it.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi … us/618416/
https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-2 … ans-2021-8"he was very much against the idea of refugees from post-war Vietnam and Cambodia entering America." - [i]"Surprise" yourself, you listened to that Right-wing propaganda again.
"Biden did not vote against sending financial assistance to the South Vietnamese government toward the end of the Vietnam conflict, or block either the admittance of refugees to the U.S. or the distribution of funds to help them resettle -- in May 1975 he supported a bill allowing this to occur. "
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/biden … -refugees/"Fact #1 : Senator Joe Biden Voted Against Vietnam Contingency Act
Senator Joe Biden voted against the Vietnam Contingency Act (S. 1484) when it was proposed in the US Senate because he disagreed with two terms in the bill :
Fact Joe Biden Was One Of 17 Who Voted Against S. 1484
Fact #3 : Vietnam Contingency Act Passed In The US Congress
Despite Senator Biden’s Nay vote, together with 16 other senators, the Vietnam Contingency Act (S. 1484) was approved in the Senate with a 75-17 vote on 24 April 1975.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/94-1975/s145
Note Biden voted Nay...
The bill DID NOT pass in the House... https://www.congress.gov/bill/94th-cong … -bill/1484
Hopefully, this gives proof of my claim. His vote is what counted, not his flip-flop after the fact... . He has always flip-flopped after he realizes his view did not please who he had hoped it would. His vote is the bottom line. And I have provided the fact he voted NAY on the bill.
In my book, Propaganda is walking it back as most dishonest politicians do after they find the vote has jumped up and bit him in the butt.
I have searched and found the actual transcripts where Biden spoke on this subject.
"Biden: I feel put upon in being presented an all or nothing number. I don't
want to have to vote to buy it all or not at all. I am not sure I can vote
for an amount to put American troops in for one to six months to get the
Vietnamese out. I will vote for any amount for getting the Americans out.
I don't want it mixed with getting the Vietnamese out. "
https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/libra … 553026.pdfYou just deflected again. Here was your claim "he was very much against the idea of refugees from post-war Vietnam and Cambodia entering America."
Your Fact #1 - the rest of the story: Senator Joe Biden voted against the Vietnam Contingency Act (S. 1484) when it was proposed in the US Senate, because he disagreed with two terms in the bill :
military assistance to Vietnam authorisation to use American troops (if necessary) to protect the evacuation of South Vietnamese citizens.
Specifically, he was against the Ford Administration tying military assistance to Vietnam and the continued use of US troops, with the evacuation of American and Vietnamese civilians.
He was worried that $100 million of contingency funds in this bill would be used to provide military aid, instead of helping to evacuate the refugees. DID you see that? "instead of helping to evacuate the refugees"
Next Fact #2: Redundant.
Next Fact #3: FALSE! It did not pass Congress. It passed the Senate. The House voted it down 162 to 246 May 1, 1975. Facts matter. Fact #3 also had absolutely nothing to do with your claim. (I see you contradicted yourself a little later by pointing out SB 1484 failed in the House.
I am not sure what your Biden quote proves other than than he opposes "tying military assistance to Vietnam and the continued use of US troops, with the evacuation of American and Vietnamese civilians"Here was my claim --- 1--- “I’m getting sick and tired of hearing about morality, our moral obligation,” Joe Biden said in 1975. “There’s a point where you are incapable of meeting moral obligations that exist worldwide.” At the time, he was arguing against U.S. aid to Cambodia. But he could just as easily have said the same about his decision this year to end the American presence in Afghanistan. His very latest and greatest disaster."
I more than proved he said those very words... I more than proved he voted against the bill...
I could care less how he tried to flip flop on his Nay vote...
I note you ignored the other examples...
3- In 1991, Biden opposed the Gulf War, one of the most successful military campaigns in American history. Not only did he later regret his congressional vote, but in 1998, he criticized George H. W. Bush for not deposing Saddam Hussein, calling that decision a “fundamental mistake.”
4-In 2003, Biden supported the Iraq War—another congressional vote he later regretted.
5- In 2007, he opposed President George W. Bush’s new counterinsurgency strategy and surge in troops in Iraq, calling it a “tragic mistake.” In fact, the surge led to stunning progress, including dramatic drops in civilian deaths and sectarian violence.
6- In December 2011, President Barack Obama and Vice President Biden withdrew America’s much-scaled-down troop presence in Iraq; the former had declared Iraq to be “sovereign, stable, and self-reliant,” and the latter had predicted that Iraq “could be one of the great achievements of this administration.” Their decision sent Iraq spiraling into sectarian violence and civil war, allowing Iran to expand its influence and opening the way for the rise of the jihadist group ISIS.
7- According to Obama’s memoir A Promised Land, Biden had advised the former president to take more time before launching the raid that killed Osama bin Laden.
8- Ten years ago, Biden said in an interview that “the Taliban per se is not our enemy.” He added, “If, in fact, the Taliban is able to collapse the existing government, which is cooperating with us in keeping the bad guys from being able to do damage to us, then that becomes a problem for us.” Indeed.So you DENY you said "he was very much against the idea of refugees from post-war Vietnam and Cambodia entering America."? - It was that quote of yours I was responding to and you deflected away from it to something else entirely
3. Right, your point?
4. True, Biden got snookered like most Americans did. Then he realized that he was lied to. You seem to have a problem with people making new decisions when they get new information. At least that is a characteristic of those of us in the middle and on the left. Apparently the Conservative way is "once you make a decision, you stick with it all costs" (and NEVER admit you were wrong).
5. Immediately following Bush's January 10 speech announcing the [surge] plan, Democratic politicians, including Ted Kennedy, Harry Reid and Dennis Kucinich, called on Congress to reject the surge. On January 18, Xinhua News Agency reported that "whitehouse hopefuls" Sens. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., Barack Obama, D-Ill., Chris Dodd, D-Conn., Joe Biden, D-Del, and Sam Brownback, R-Kansas, all voiced their discontent January 13 with the course of events in Iraq. Seems like Biden is in good company. (BTW - I opposed the war from the get-go; I knew Bush, et al, were lying to the American people. But, given that he did start a war, he should have gone in all the way. Instead, he tried to do it on the cheap. When he got in to trouble near the end, I supported the surge to set the stage for withdrawal. In the end, Bush signed an agreement to withdraw all American troops.)
6. I guess you need to be presented the TRUTH once again. In 2008 Bush signed the U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement. It included a deadline of 31 December 2011, before which "all the United States Forces shall withdraw from all Iraqi territory" - Question - Do you see Obama or Biden's name anywhere in that TRUE statement.?
7. Yes he did - [u]as did everyone else in that room except one. When Obama and Biden were alone, Biden told him something like "go with your gut" - and Obama did.
8. Read the WHOLE context here. Keep in mind, this is 2011 and the Taliban had been defeated. If you were knowledgeable of what was going on then, you would have understood what he meant. Unfortunately, conservatives don't seem to be capable of that.
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